Reader comments
Bill Evans: Alcohol regulation protects community

Why LDS church should refrain | 12:20 a.m. Sept. 21, 2008

If alcohol regulation protects the community, great, lets us as a community design laws which will intelligently allow its proper use and discourage its improper use.

Perhaps this is what Utah already has, perhaps we can improve on what we have.

I don't like the idea of a religion however stating specifically what particular laws ought to be. What brought me to this conclusion is the wierd laws that Islam has, women must be covered, not be able to drive, not get educated. etc.

Not only moslems, catholics if they could would outlaw reading the scriptures, birth control.

LDS would and have in times past gotten a law passed in Utah outlawing shopping on sunday.

I could go on, my point is this, society has no business passing laws peciluar to any one religion. Religions tend to have non sensenical rules in addition to their rules that make sense.

To often when a religion gets involved in trying to pass a law, it is one of their nonsenseical rules that they are trying get all people to obey.

Alcohol is more complex, however the LDS church should not try to dictate specifics for reasons stated above.

awesomeron | 4:38 a.m. Sept. 21, 2008

If you do not have Alcohol in the first place, or restrict it, you do not have to worry about its responsible use.

There should be a Law against Stores being open on Sunday, as Christian people will be required to work in them on Sunday and they and most likely their kids will miss Church. Mass still has Blue Laws and I have never seen a Blue Law that i did not like.

Laws against being open on Sunday or not open till a certain time. Protect Not Only LDS but people of all Faith Groups that hold Sunday as their Sabbath.

Even God rested on the 7th day and if its good enough for God then its Good Enough for me.

When I was a Child living in Mass, the Store was only open till 9PM, 1 Night a week, Mostly Wednesday. Sometimes Friday.

I also believe that if your Sabbath falls on a different day, you should be able to have that day as one of your days off.

Even in 3rd World Countries there is Great Respect for the Sabbath. This is seen as No great loss, and people are prepared and work it out.

Ronald A. Young | 5:28 a.m. Sept. 21, 2008

If you have the Votes you have the right control your Community. As long as you act within reason and follow State and Federal Laws.

An example of this in Hawaii is Laie Hawaii. Home of BYUH. The Town is Dry, the stores closed on Sunday. No R Rated Movies and No Adult Section in the Video Store. The Rest of Hawaii is more or less wide open.

Sometimes State Law protects Alcohol Sales as in Arizona. None Sold before 1PM on Sunday.

The Voters in the Community have the right to set the tone of the Community.

Sometimes Christians and this includes the LDS are told by those that do not CTR, what the Community should do and how they should act in order to accommodate them.

We are right and they are wrong and it is as simple as that. We need to stop feeling bad and acting like victims and stand up for our standards.

Comments continue below

Religion need not matter | 5:39 a.m. Sept. 21, 2008

There is nothing wrong with Alcohol restrictions. 16,000 people die each year because of misuse of alcohol here in the US. Take into account the "West Nile" warnings or "Mad Cow" scares where only a few hundred have ever died from such diseases, yet for some reason it garnishes attention. But the disease known as irresponsible alcohol consumption kills thousands every year and destroys countless others lives, yet all you see is beer commercials and displays of debauchery. Rationalizations and excuses.

If 16,000 people died every year in an equally violent and irresponsible manner, you would have legislatures up in arms trying to solve the problem. However, while Utah fatalities remain relatively low, lawmakers are now seeking to change things?

And to say this is only and LDS issue is absurd. Many atheists, deists and other theists abhor alcohol like they should. To equate the regulation of a dangerous substance to wearing a head scarf is laughable, if not sad.

There is the reason this state is in better shape than others and it certainly is not because of our government.

dictate? | 6:08 a.m. Sept. 21, 2008

DICTATE is much too strong. the LDS church has stated obvious conclusions where we have benefited by our current liquor laws. i am interested in all religious/secular points of view regarding the many social topics that we face today.

Church and State | 6:23 a.m. Sept. 21, 2008

The LDS Church is the cause of so much hardship in Utah
Ignorance is a good example
Everyone does not live like Mormons
Some of us actually know about Currant Events
Some of us watch TV and are Currant on the World outside
We are up on the News
We are Americans

Some of us know and read the Holy Bible.

We follow the 10 Commandments.

Love thy neighbor.

Bare no false witness against thy neighbor.

This is a problem in Utah

Read it again | 7:28 a.m. Sept. 21, 2008

Did you even bother to carefully read the article? All three stated objectives cannot be refuted as to their social and community value. Furthermore, nowhere in LDS doctrine or practise can you find effort to deny its followers (or anyone else for that matter) the exercise of personal agency or choice. The LDS faith is perfectly within it's logical mandate to work towards any reasonable measures which will avoid the consequences of social ills such as the abuse of alcohol. When tragedy occurs as the result of alcohol abuse, impaired driving etc, YOUR taxes go up, YOUR health and accident insurance goes up, YOUR auto insurance costs go up. You need to get past your obvious distate for the LDS religion and accept the fact that you benefit immensely by living in a state where you are safer as a result of living here and many costs of living are cheaper as well.

liberal Larry | 7:28 a.m. Sept. 21, 2008

Efforts by the LDS church to reduce the many negative consequences of drinking are laudable. Where the friction occurs is when the church is seen as arbitrarily imposing it's enormous influence on non-members, and visiting tourists with unusually restrictive, or down right weird liquor laws. If the church wants to discourage drinking in the market place of ideas, through reasonable laws, advertisements, and education programs etc. good for them. But they do their own public image, and the rights of drinkers a huge disservice with silly or irritating alcohol restrictions.

Ema | 7:41 a.m. Sept. 21, 2008

awesomeron, you're talking about one of those nonsensical rules that the first poster mentioned. I don't personally believe in any religion, and Sunday is the only day of the week I have time to go grocery shopping. In fact, my grocery list is sitting right here so I can go to Smith's as soon as I get my laundry done. Everyone deserves a day off, but I also think everyone should be able to pick the day they go to the grocery store--including Sunday. There is also the occasional emergency where you may be glad you can go to the store and buy some medicine or something similar. So no, I don't believe stores should be required to close on Sunday, although I do think they should be able to choose (and most grocers would choose not to because of profits at least). And now I've gotten completely off topic! :)

uncannygunman | 8:13 a.m. Sept. 21, 2008

The article is right, 90% of the church statement is boilerplate safety-nanny language that could come straight from MADD or some other neo-prohibitionist outfit. Imagine the outcry if the church expressed the same concerns about guns!

To the extent that the church is serious about "individual freedom of choice," I would say the statement supports allowing smoking in clubs (which directly affects individual choice) more than it does eliminating private clubs (which really doesn't have anything to do with choice). So how about it, legislators: listen to the church and let adults decide whether they want to smoke while they get together for a drink!

smoking? | 9:54 a.m. Sept. 21, 2008

Smoking isnt just a personal choice it effects everyone around you. Its called 2nd hand smoke.

Smoking | 10:48 a.m. Sept. 21, 2008

In Utah county they are considering outlawing out door smoking in many places.

Before I would do that I would outlaw smoking in cars with children and perhaps in houses too.

Sherry | 12:14 p.m. Sept. 21, 2008

TO AWSOME RON, Your saying that Sunday is the 7th day is off base. You must not have studied the subject.Sunday is and always has been the 1st day of the week. That leaves Saturday as the 7th day. If you will study the matter, you will find that it was the Cathloic Church under the direction of Emperor Constantine, that changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. One of the reasons for this was to distance themselves from the Jewish People. The Jewish religion still keep the 7th day Sabbath. To be fair about what day businesses should be closed, please study the Sabbath subject.

KVC | 12:28 p.m. Sept. 21, 2008

I agree with the post regarding smoking in cars with children. This should be illegal. Children can't decide when their parents make such decisions. We have mandated car seats and seat belts for kids, but allow them to be subjected to dangerous second-hand smoke. Personally I wish it were illegal to smoke in restaurants throughout the nation. A majority of people support these controls.
As for alcohol rules, I guess many of the anti-Mormon comments are from people who have never been to the Southern US. I have been through many areas that have DRY counties, meaning no alcohol can be bought or sold anywhere in the county. No exemptions. Much more restrictive than Utah, and yet these areas have very few Mormons.

xscribe | 12:33 p.m. Sept. 21, 2008

If people want alcohol, they're going to get it somehow, no matter what. Remember Prohibition?

Utah should be dry | 12:56 p.m. Sept. 21, 2008

Utah should be a dry state. Yeah, if they want it they're going to get their alcohol, but let them get it in Nevada or Wyoming, if they want. To try to get into the liquor business, just breeds one hypocrisy after another.

And? | 1:00 p.m. Sept. 21, 2008

When I was a kid in Utah, stores where closed Sunday. This like liquor laws changed once their was money to be made.

Kyle from AZ | 1:37 p.m. Sept. 21, 2008

Some of us are not "Currant", the rest of us are just ignorant and uneducated.

JUST A THOUGHT | 1:45 p.m. Sept. 21, 2008

Iwas raised in east,tn.that part of the state was DRY or so some thought.when it came up for a vote(alcohol)they would vote dry but drink wet.they had to go a short distance into virginia to get their booze and virginia LOVED IT.

GRAMMABEA2@AOL.COM | 1:53 p.m. Sept. 21, 2008

IF YOU KNOW ABOUT THE LATEST EVENTS,
ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT KNOWING ABOUT BERRIES OR THE NEWS.

Jack Handy | 3:32 p.m. Sept. 21, 2008

Utah's status of being the lowest in DUI's, etc. has nothing to do with legislation of alcohol control. The church already guarantees that the vast majority of the residents don't drink. So why does it feel it needs to make legislation to control the lives of those of us who choose not to follow the church? If I want to have a glass of wine with dinner, what business is it of the church to try and control that?

Capitalism | 3:54 p.m. Sept. 21, 2008

Utah's liquor laws are hypocritical. While liquor is readily available in the marketplace anywhere else in the nation, Utah restricts sales of spirits to the state run liquor stores. And while the state condemns the usage of liquor, they benefit financially by the Draconian taxes that they levy on the sale of such spirits. So, the state thus benefits financially by selling a product that they condemn the people of the state for using. This is the very definition of hypocrisy! This is an abuse of the leverage that the state government enjoys and it is an anti-capitalist, underhanded manuever to not allow liquor (a 100% legal product)to be sold on the open markets. Utah needs to remember that they are supposed to making laws that do not favor one religion over another and to say that they are currently doing so is ridiculous.
Though I, along with everyone else around the nation that doesn't live in Utah, has come to expect such anti-secular abuses of power by Utah's government. People throughout the nation make no distinction between Utah's government and the Mormon church. With the vast majority viewing the Mormon church and its ideals with very little regard.

I'm not a threat | 3:58 p.m. Sept. 21, 2008

I would just like to be able to go to my local grocery store and buy a nice bottle of wine to have with dinner.

Is that so unreasonable?

Mona | 4:50 p.m. Sept. 21, 2008

To "Church & State":

I am glad you know all about "Currant Events". I have never eaten & currant & wasn't aware they held 'events'. And how does a fruit go about being currant on the world outside? Inquiring minds want to know.

It's also nice to know you do all of those other good things. I'm a Mormon & I do them too!

A word of caution: good for you to "bare" no false witness against your neighbor, because baring anything against your neighbor could land you in hot water.

Proud Non | 5:35 p.m. Sept. 21, 2008

It's also heartening to see some cold and hostile response to the 'statement'. Because 95% of the meaning behind it has nothing whatsoever to do with alcohol. It is all about who really weilds political control in Utah, and how blatantly they do it. And, if they think that Utah has a low rate of consumption or whatever and they can credit the silly legal obfuscations we have here...forget it. A large portion of the state is not supposed to drink, and they are also self righteous and nosey. If you're not supposed to imbibe and do, you will be gossiped out. For the rest of us, the normals, we jump through or avoid the stupid laws as best we can. It doesn't prevent mormons from drinking; they do. And it doesn't prevent me from loading the pickup to the overloads with out of state goodies. So, quit crowing, leave politics to politicians and church statements for church members.

Judy | 5:50 p.m. Sept. 21, 2008

Several states have state or county owned liquor stores--it can be a great money maker. Utahns should travel a bitand see what is happening elsewhere before they decide that everything being done in Utah is wrong.

Not enough protection | 6:14 p.m. Sept. 21, 2008

The problem is that there is not enough protection for the community.

The "I just want a glass of white wine with dinner" crowd selfishly refuses to admit that the other side of that coin is the highway carnage created by too little regulation of the liquor/"hospitality" industry.

The cost of that carnage falls on widows and orphans, rather than on those in the industry raking in billions from it.

Utah dram shop laws should be liberalized to assure that the full cost falls on the industries profiting from encouraging and enabling drunk drivers. This will incentivize safety, rather than overconsumption and blood money profits.

Unless the enablers are held financially responsible for the carnage they cause, no Utahn will ever be safe from the effects of "hospitality."

Anonymous | 7:40 p.m. Sept. 21, 2008

If the taxers, regulators, and "protectors" keep it up, Utahns will eventually rediscover what happens to the fruit juice when it sits out too long.

Jim | 8:59 p.m. Sept. 21, 2008

I find it amusing to say the least, the people state that they need protection from excessive alcohol consumption and associated behavior. People should remember that those who over indulge are members of the community. At what point in time does the community take responsibility for them. At what point in time do people take responsibility for their own actions. We don't need legislation to control us, we have our free agency to choose. What we need to consider is exercising that free agency and say, I don't need to over indulge, I don't need to drink and drive impaired and I don't need to slap my wife or husband across the face every time I drink or use other substances. People need to take control of their own lives and not expect the government to do it for themselves

ed schmolinsky | 10:54 p.m. Sept. 21, 2008

Many states are more restrictive than Utah on alcohol;
Pennsylvania--> no beer is sold in grocery stores; State Liquor Stores are closed on Sunday

Ontario, Canada--> Beer must be purchased in govt
run stores

...of course the beer is a little stronger than 3.2 ABW :-), but it's still nice to stop in to 7-11
and have the option

Re:Jim | 10:56 p.m. Sept. 21, 2008

Ummm, Jim, I think you answered your own question. This is exactly when the law needs to come into place because people don't control their own lives and they ruin other's lives when they do. This is how a community makes sure that worst case scenario's are taken care of.

Then from there, you have friends that say, "umm, Jim, you had too much to drink, so I'm driving." or, "let's stay at Jim's house so we can get plastered and not hurt anyone." That's why the bartender says, "Jim, I'm calling you a cab." Then when you ditch the cab and jump in your car, somebody with more common sense than Jim, the drunk can pull Jim over and say, "Jim, the community doesn't want you out on the road killing innocent people, and they would really like it if Jim didn't get hurt too, so I'm acting on behalf of the community and making sure it doesn't happen."

Good intentions, bad law | 12:08 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008

Utah's private club las isn't too restrictive - it's just too cumbersome.

The private club law has good intentions, but it does ABSOTULEY NOTHING to reduce drunk driving or underage drinking.

Can anyone of you tell me EXACTLY how the private club law reduces drunk driving and underage drinking?

I'm waiting... and I'll be waiting for a loooonnng time - because it just doesn't. That law should go away.

The law should be if you're 21 you can go into a bar - that's it. Period. What is so hard about that?

Anonymous | 9:12 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008

I am constantly amazed when people hostile to the church refer to it as though it were a machine of non-humans who have no heart or feelings. Of course, some of you have such hate for us you don't consider us humans. But "The Church," even the church leadership, is comprised of local residents who live right here, who drive on our streets, who know the issues that affect the lives of the people they are called upon to help. Many of their children live here. Many of their grand children walk the streets and go to local schools. In a Democratic Republic, EVERYONE is allowed to try to influence laws to protect their families, even Mormons. So stop being a bunch of whiners and calling "fowl" when people of "The Church" try to exercise their franchise.

Find a better State | 9:22 p.m. Sept. 23, 2008

If you do not like Utah than leave! Move to California or better yet Canada. Instead of whining about how miserable you are, go somewhere else where you think you might be happy! Oh I forget, every State has Alcohol restrictions and even Canada does. So now the LDS Church is wrong to support what every State in this free country supports? Get over it people! If the real issue for you is the big bad LDS Church in Utah than move out of the State and go find your inner chi somewhere else.

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