Deseret News | Reader comments: 4 more kids dropped from FLDS case

Reader comments
4 more kids dropped from FLDS case

Joey | 5:10 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

What's the legal reason for doing away with the initial mandate of the trust, i.e. the "United Order"? Will this set a precedent wherein, other groups are prohibited from pooling their properties into trusts? Or is the move solely an attempt to dismantle the FLDS church, in which case it's discriminatory?

re: Joey | 8:48 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

I believe the initial mandate of the trust was "done away with" when the FLDS leaders who were supposed to be managing it started dipping into it for their own personal prophet.

realitycheck | 9:00 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

the legal reason was to correct the deception propogated by Jeffs where he was liquidating the assets with no feedback from the other members. there were numerous lawsuits by ex-members and Jeffs ignored them. if the court hadn't stepped in, all properties would have been sold to pay for the lawsuits. Obviously no FLDS member will agree, because Jeffs can do no wrong (LOL) and they are afraid to attend a meeting (another big LOL).

the goal is to fix up the area and give the properties back to the people that put the money into the trust in the first place.

the court is trying to undo a con perpetrated by a religious shiester. Being conned when you are afraid of everything is the easiest thing in the world. too bad these people are such easy targets for a religious con.

Comments continue below

gretchen | 9:04 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

I am not a legal expert by any stretch, but from what I have read about flds for over 3 yrs (and running) and from actual chats with a few ex-plyg group members , these so-called united trusts are very often just a big cover to keep tight control of members in about every way imaginable, abuse occurs A LOT. People are held in virtual servitude, families are evicted unfairly from homes they have improved at whim of those in leadership in plyg groups, huge assets are mishandled. The list goes on. In the case of flds, all this and more has happened, many parties hurt by the current pedophile "leader" Warren Jeffs are suing UEP/WArren for the horrific harm to individuals and families by his twisted ways- he has definitely extorted much from many people and then turned around and favored himself/ cronies, etc. It is a recipe for corruption, from virtually all I have read about it. Right now, several cases against Jeffs, if paid out as sued, would remove many millions from what is left of the UEP. It's a mess, as is most everything with plyg groups.

zxcvbnm | 9:05 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

So..ole Willie needs to be vetted. Who wants to predict that the process will include a question about how many wives the man has.
Stack the board, stack the process, where will the bias end?

Gal50 | 9:39 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

I sure would like more specific information on how the trust was misused. My understanding is that one or more leaders raided the trust for their own use. But, how much money did they take and over what period of time?

What if the leaders had some kind of informal understanding? What if they didn't take any pay, but used the trust to buy themselves new cars or something similar? What if the new cars purchased in one year came to less money than the trust is now being billed for management services?

It would seem then that they really didn't misuse trust funds, but that they should have paid themselves and held the money in an accounts payable file and taken it when they wanted something like a new car.

It may be that Jeffs bought a few too many homes with the trust money. Here again, the FLDS may rather him have the money than the lawyers and managers on the outside of the trust.

With lawsuits and management fees, it is very uncertain that the people will own their property free and clear.

zxcvbnm | 10:23 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

If the trust was mismanaged by Jeffs it was managed (mismanaged) by building a church in Texas and for the most part the funds just stayed off the books.
With the present management fees are being made public and they seem to ammount to more than Jeffs may have mismanaged.
Jeffs was on the run for a bit more than a year and there are communications between his lieutenants to deposit and or move sums as high as 200,000 to other members. Jeffs did not act alone but the funds were used for church business or his living expenses.
Noone has put a figure on just what Jeffs used on a personal basis but the guy stayed with other church members and was transported by his friends to safe houses.
Bad accounting or no accounting was the norm.....not theft for personal gain.

Joey | 12:25 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

As I understand it, the UEP is exclusively a land holding Trust, and never has had cash assets. The money Jeffs used came from tithes and offerings, not land sales. As for the lawsuits, e.g. the suit by Fischer, they are pretty much known to be of the frivilous/malicious nature. The UEP, is legally not responsible for the actions of Warren Jeffs. Fischer is said to have been happy that the trust was taken over by the court rather than simply awarded to him in a default judgment. The reason? His goal was to dismantle the FLDS, not to merely win a lawsuit.

realitycheck | 12:44 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

wow, zxcvbnm. "not theft for personal gain"... sometimes your comments really astound me. Everything Jeffs did was for personal gain. Everything. AT NO POINT did he have the best interests of the general FLDS followers in mind. NEVER.

the FLDS is naive.

Joey | 1:22 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

realitycheck claims to know the mind of the prophet. Do you read palms too, RC?

realitycheck | 2:48 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

And no Joey - I don't read palms. But I can spot a con man a mile away.

too bad you FLDS can't. If you could, you wouldn't be broke and living in slums out in the desert while the families that were willing to hand over their 12 yr old girls got to go to Texas....

zxcvbnm | 3:06 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

The guy Jeffs had access to 110 million and and more than ample opportunity to do with it as he pleased.
Just do some accounting RC......or let Wisan do the accounting.....Wisan is certainly charging for accounting work.
As far as the church financing is concerned Wisan has asked for the papers concerning YFZ and has already stated he doesn't want the Temple.
Money in Jeffs posession was to facilitate his life on the run, a life of being transported between safe houses....he bought a new set of cloths and a car and in all likelyhood the car was registered to someone else.
It has been brought out that a large chunk of the money to build the Temple came from the Machining company after they had moved to Nevada.
Walls has spent more UEP cash than Jeffs has for personal use......lol

realitycheck | 2:50 p.m. Sept. 19, 2008

yes, zxcvbnm - Jeffs is a great and honest man who doesn't prey on children, and speaks to God regularly.

care to buy some land in florida?

reallynow | 4:35 p.m. Sept. 25, 2008

zxcvbnm, Joey and Gal50,
Jeffs, Jessop and other FLDS leaders have behaved like power-hungry pedophiles, if not outright theives. Why would you ever defend them? You should be pleased that they are being held accountable, at least to some degree.

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