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LDS Church posts statement on alcohol
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bhparkman | 2:17 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
Personally, I don't care. I don't patron bars or clubs, nor consume
alcohol in that way (it's great on cuts, wounds, sanitizing metals, etc.)
So, I really don't care.
Utah's prohibition laws are supposed to regulate all commerce on ethyl alcohol, and it can't! Folks can still manufacture their own (it's not difficult), and still get into trouble. Prohibition for the last 90+ years has not reduced drunk driving, abusive behaviors while intoxicated, or stopped teen alcoholism.
Finally, the money collected is supposed to go to the State's education funds; tens of millions of dollars worth. And STILL the UEA keeps complaining they don't get enough taxed money!
This whole prohibition thing isn't working at all.
Utah's prohibition laws are supposed to regulate all commerce on ethyl alcohol, and it can't! Folks can still manufacture their own (it's not difficult), and still get into trouble. Prohibition for the last 90+ years has not reduced drunk driving, abusive behaviors while intoxicated, or stopped teen alcoholism.
Finally, the money collected is supposed to go to the State's education funds; tens of millions of dollars worth. And STILL the UEA keeps complaining they don't get enough taxed money!
This whole prohibition thing isn't working at all.
Scott Gerlach | 2:22 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
A natural consequence of enacting a law is that one or more freedoms will be
restricted. And regardless of the justification, most laws can be traced back to
a belief system that seeks to codify a moral law into a civil one. Laws
restricting the "responsible" use of any substance known to man
restrict freedom and choice. The same apply to laws regarding adult sexual
behavior. But they also reflect the moral view of the majority that allows the
law to be passed.
Yes, you have to accept the Word of Wisdom on faith. In Franklin's time, or Joseph's, for that matter, smoking was thought to be healthy, too. Modern medical research puts the lie to that. Who's to say the WoW isn't just ahead of the curve on the alcohol thing, too? I've been a drinker and smoker, and I've since qualified for a recommend. Feel free to choose, guys, but the fight here is looking pretty silly to us non-Utahns.
Yes, you have to accept the Word of Wisdom on faith. In Franklin's time, or Joseph's, for that matter, smoking was thought to be healthy, too. Modern medical research puts the lie to that. Who's to say the WoW isn't just ahead of the curve on the alcohol thing, too? I've been a drinker and smoker, and I've since qualified for a recommend. Feel free to choose, guys, but the fight here is looking pretty silly to us non-Utahns.
Comments continue below
We can satisfy all | 2:26 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
Probably the best way to get rational laws on drinking here in Utah is to do the
following.
Follow Joseph Smith's saying, "Teach them correct principals and let them govern themselves".
In other words, Let the LDS church teach its own members not to drink and any other people who will listen to them. But do not try by force of law to enforce religious doctrine.
Pass only those laws whose objective is to honestly regulate and minimize the bad effects that alcohol can have.
Is not allowing alcohol to be served in a resturant because it is offensive to those who don't drink, really isn't necessary to prevent the bad effects of alcohol. A better way would be for the resturant not to over serve their customers and to provide a breath test for those who may need it. And to provide stiff penalties, including loss of licence for life for those who won't be responsible.
If we use intelligence, instead of religious blindness, we can accomidate public safety, health without imposing religious will on others by force of law.
Follow Joseph Smith's saying, "Teach them correct principals and let them govern themselves".
In other words, Let the LDS church teach its own members not to drink and any other people who will listen to them. But do not try by force of law to enforce religious doctrine.
Pass only those laws whose objective is to honestly regulate and minimize the bad effects that alcohol can have.
Is not allowing alcohol to be served in a resturant because it is offensive to those who don't drink, really isn't necessary to prevent the bad effects of alcohol. A better way would be for the resturant not to over serve their customers and to provide a breath test for those who may need it. And to provide stiff penalties, including loss of licence for life for those who won't be responsible.
If we use intelligence, instead of religious blindness, we can accomidate public safety, health without imposing religious will on others by force of law.
Farmer C | 2:33 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
re: The real sheep | 10:19 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008
So, its a case of pick your poison?
Alcohol vs Ice And Anti-depressants? lol.
So, its a case of pick your poison?
Alcohol vs Ice And Anti-depressants? lol.
Chris | 2:56 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
Even though I'm a member of the church, I have a problem with the quote in
the article that essentially indicated that the House and Senate of Utah would
just do what the church asks.
The LDS Church has a right to issue such a statement, however, our state legislatures decisions should not be based on statements of the predominant church. All of the issues should be looked at and these elected officals should determine the best course of action for Utah.
I know- ideal view, but good government.
The LDS Church has a right to issue such a statement, however, our state legislatures decisions should not be based on statements of the predominant church. All of the issues should be looked at and these elected officals should determine the best course of action for Utah.
I know- ideal view, but good government.
My 25 cent.... | 3:13 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
I don't think the church is trying to influence anyone. It is going to
speak out against things that are contradictory to its beliefs but it also
understand that people still have their free agency to do what they want.
I'm glad to see that the church is not an idle bystander when it comes to speaking out its mind against harmful practices.
I'm glad to see that the church is not an idle bystander when it comes to speaking out its mind against harmful practices.
Johnny | 3:21 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
I am a commited LDS. I do not drink. That being said, I am embarrassed by all
of those posters who have said, basically, "If you don't like it,
leave."
It is an infantile point of view. There is a large segment of the population who do not share this view. I am one of them.
It is an infantile point of view. There is a large segment of the population who do not share this view. I am one of them.
Anonymous | 3:32 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
Umm.... HELLO | 10:15 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008
"A majority of the people in Utah are LDS. Maybe that has something to do with a good share of the elected officials being LDS. The state government should represent the majority who elected them. This isn't rocket science. People are always crying about LDS beliefs effecting state policy. Ummm... HELLO MCFLY this is Utah and a lot of LDS people live here. I'm thinking that is how a democracy works. I'm sure you non-LDS whiners vote for those who most reflect your values, why can't LDS people do the same?"
I think people are upset because only 60% of the population of Utah is Mormon but 95% of the legislature is. Can you see how they might think that the Church is running things?
"A majority of the people in Utah are LDS. Maybe that has something to do with a good share of the elected officials being LDS. The state government should represent the majority who elected them. This isn't rocket science. People are always crying about LDS beliefs effecting state policy. Ummm... HELLO MCFLY this is Utah and a lot of LDS people live here. I'm thinking that is how a democracy works. I'm sure you non-LDS whiners vote for those who most reflect your values, why can't LDS people do the same?"
I think people are upset because only 60% of the population of Utah is Mormon but 95% of the legislature is. Can you see how they might think that the Church is running things?
Courtesy for the tourists! | 3:40 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
Sad though!
With the problems that alcohol has caused to so many families/individuals lives.
With the problems that alcohol has caused to so many families/individuals lives.
Anonymous | 4:00 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
"Finally, the money collected is supposed to go to the State's
education funds; tens of millions of dollars worth. And STILL the UEA keeps
complaining they don't get enough taxed money!"
It goes to feed the poor students - none of it is used for education.
It goes to feed the poor students - none of it is used for education.
Apologetics | 4:36 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
I've a solution:
Drinkers, lets meet at the local bar and have a cold glass of beer or glass of wine.
Mormons, meet at the local Chuck-o-Rama and eat more meat than the Word Of Wisdom advises you not to eat.
Solution met.
Drinkers, lets meet at the local bar and have a cold glass of beer or glass of wine.
Mormons, meet at the local Chuck-o-Rama and eat more meat than the Word Of Wisdom advises you not to eat.
Solution met.
A cold one sounds great | 4:39 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
Mormons really need to get an education.
They think that everyone who drinks is an alcoholic, I have a news flash for them-
"Studies show that Alcoholic Beverages can be Consumed at a Moderate Level"
Please get an education and stop judging everyone as an alcoholic drunk driver, or I will start to judge all the LDS people as pill popping meth addicts.
They think that everyone who drinks is an alcoholic, I have a news flash for them-
"Studies show that Alcoholic Beverages can be Consumed at a Moderate Level"
Please get an education and stop judging everyone as an alcoholic drunk driver, or I will start to judge all the LDS people as pill popping meth addicts.
This is Great | 4:56 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
I am so glad to see that the LDS Church is being more open minded....it
won't be long until they are endorsing gay-marriage. Yeaaaaaaaaa!
re: Jeffery | 5:18 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
to: Jeffrey | 9:55 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008
Suggesting that churches and their leaders give up their 1st amendment rights to freedom of speech is a heinous attack on the free speech rights of everyone. There are christian pastors challenging that restriction even now. Clearly you do not understand the moral duty of churches to speak out on social issues of all kinds.
Suggesting that churches and their leaders give up their 1st amendment rights to freedom of speech is a heinous attack on the free speech rights of everyone. There are christian pastors challenging that restriction even now. Clearly you do not understand the moral duty of churches to speak out on social issues of all kinds.
Not all Mormons... | 5:21 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
...think that all drinkers are drunks. I'm Mormon, and most of the people
I know who choose to drink also choose to drink responsibly. The vast majority,
as a matter of fact. I just want those readers who are not LDS to understand
that the ignorant opinions of the obviously uninformed few LDS who frequent
these boards are in a solid minority. My opinion: If you're not LDS, and
you'd like a drink, I have just one word for you...
Cheers!
Cheers!
Mona | 5:36 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
Re: Chris: The founding fathers did not craft those great documents BECAUSE of
alcohol; they were successful in spite of it.
Re: @Mona: members of the LDS church & other mainstream churches do not enslave their people. We have a choice to keep or not keep the commandments & directives. Same with laws enacted by government. No one will force you to stop at a stop sign.
Alcohol on the other hand can be a habit difficult to break & that's the slavery aspect of it.
Re: @Mona: members of the LDS church & other mainstream churches do not enslave their people. We have a choice to keep or not keep the commandments & directives. Same with laws enacted by government. No one will force you to stop at a stop sign.
Alcohol on the other hand can be a habit difficult to break & that's the slavery aspect of it.
former drinker | 5:51 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
If you drinkers want to have your eyes opened to what your favorite adult
activity does to people, go to an AA meeting and listen to the hell slcohol has
caused them! And by the way, every single person there will tell you they
thought they were drinking in "moderation" and responsibly! So much
for your arguements! Go ahead, I dare you to attend one AA meeting! You can find
them in the the yellow pages!See you there!
RE: Brother Joseph | 6:06 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
Evereything must put in a historical perspective or context.
Water treatment was not waht it is now. And even now days every onve in a blue moon of placwe you get warnings not to drink water.
IN the 1830's there was no soda pop to drink.
So drank what available and safe.
Something that had been boiled like tea or it came from a fruit or grain like a lite wine or beer.
IT was safer! This is not so much true today.
It shows no sense at all to compare historical periods. And make justifications.
Water treatment was not waht it is now. And even now days every onve in a blue moon of placwe you get warnings not to drink water.
IN the 1830's there was no soda pop to drink.
So drank what available and safe.
Something that had been boiled like tea or it came from a fruit or grain like a lite wine or beer.
IT was safer! This is not so much true today.
It shows no sense at all to compare historical periods. And make justifications.
Greg | 6:36 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
Yes, the LDS religion has a lot of good practices and they're a respectible
religion for what they do, however, they should not have any say on to what
happens with the government. What ever happened to the little thing called
"Separation of Church and State?"
I believe the state should base it's laws and legislature off of logic and experience, not religious or mythological beliefs. Not all people who drink are drunks, like most followers of the faith like to believe. Believe it or not, science and research has proven those who drink about 4 oz of alcohol a day actually outlive those who totally abstain from it.
The pretentious followers of the LDS religion need to stop oppressing their religion on other people and need to learn how to approach things with a more open mind. Prohibition doesn't cure anything - it causes more crime, wastes tax dollars, and puts us one step away from the constitution and one step closer to the totalitarian aristocratic government the republicans dream of.
A fun fact is that more than half of the kids who get into drinking and drugs in Utah come from LDS families. Go. Figure.
I believe the state should base it's laws and legislature off of logic and experience, not religious or mythological beliefs. Not all people who drink are drunks, like most followers of the faith like to believe. Believe it or not, science and research has proven those who drink about 4 oz of alcohol a day actually outlive those who totally abstain from it.
The pretentious followers of the LDS religion need to stop oppressing their religion on other people and need to learn how to approach things with a more open mind. Prohibition doesn't cure anything - it causes more crime, wastes tax dollars, and puts us one step away from the constitution and one step closer to the totalitarian aristocratic government the republicans dream of.
A fun fact is that more than half of the kids who get into drinking and drugs in Utah come from LDS families. Go. Figure.
Re: Not all Mormons | 7:03 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
I agree with you on the words "drink responsibly" and wouldn't it
be wonderful to have the whole country and world do that? Unfortunately we are
not so blessed in that realm of responsible alcohol consumption. How would say
cheers to the families out there who had lost loved ones to drunk drivers
etc?
I'm happy to be a member of a church that don't shy away from expressing its opinion againts drinking alcohol.
I'm happy to be a member of a church that don't shy away from expressing its opinion againts drinking alcohol.
Joseph | 7:16 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
I guess it's time to eat, DRINK, and be merry...next weeks Sunday School
lesson will be "How to be of the world & in the world." Sad!!!
The next thing you know the Church will allow commercial tenants in their new
project to remain open on Sunday. The leadership body of the Church could
maintain their standards and still render unto Ceaser.
Duh | 7:59 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
To all of those who are crying about "Alcohol Killing people", I am
sorry for anyone who has lost a loved one. I don't drink, I don't want
anything to do with alochol but it is the user who kills people not the product.
I have good friends who are responsible enough to know how to control themselves
and select "designated drivers" when required. Restriction just makes
it worse, not better. Moderation in all things. And just because the "LDS
Church" makes a statement, you who think the church controls everything
need to grow up. This is a predominant LDS state. What do you expect. If a gay
or catholic individual is elected to office I am not going to cry over it, the
people elected them. Same as any other LDS politician. You "Mormon"
haters just hate because we won't conform to your ideology. Like many have
said, if you hate the church, then move. No skin off our backs, I'm sure of
that.
Free Agent | 8:01 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
To quote Will Rogers: "Prohibition is better than no liquor at all."
terrorists | 8:24 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
Any other group that killed 75,000 Americans a year would be on the recieving
end of our military. When are we going to quit ignoring drunk drivers and treat
them like the enemy they are?
Jedd | 8:27 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
Even then the City Creek Center will be bare. Me thinks this was planned to
build a financial base in the new mall and resturants. Very self-serving if that
is the case but as we have always said it is indeed a business and if it suits
the needs a statement will be read and those brothren on the hill will fall in
line. Sad very sad...
Wow | 8:44 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
This may come as a shocker, but the LDS Church owns a lot of stuff in Utah,
especially Salt Lake. Just FYI, the Deseret News itself is owned by the LDS
Church. Any wonder that the Deseret News covers stories involving its parent
organization? Not really... For those that have a problem with that, Mormons
in general, or whatever, just keep in mind that the Jewish Synagogues seem to
hold some sway in Jerusalem, the Roman Catholic Church may or may not have some
say in the affairs of Rome, and I've even heard that there are some
countries that have a state religion. Usually it's a local variety,
though.
Eric | 8:48 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
The Church's statements are positive and unifying. They invite communities
to come together to allow for individual freedom while limiting the tragic
effects of alcohol. The issue of individual choice is an interesting one that
we should all contemplate privately and allow for publicly. But at what point
is individual choice removed by virtue of a particular regulation? If a
community and government are going to allow individual choice regarding
something that is detrimental to society, then it is required to regulate that
choice. Is individual freedom removed if alcohol is not available for
consumption within a certain radius of your home or available for purchase the
day or time of day that you want it? Here in Idaho the ACLU has objected to the
removal of a graphic book about gay sex from the open area of a library. It was
available only upon request from the front desk. The ACLU objected, saying that
having the book only available behind the counter upon request was an
infringement to the free access of ideas. Ludicrous. It is about protecting
the innocent and immature from access to it. Similarly, alcohol can be
available but regulated for the protection of society.
Jan San | 9:10 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
I haven't read all the comments - it's too mind numbing! Os, I
don't know if this has been mentioned before or not. But I get frustrated
with the people that complain about the LDS affect on Utah's laws.. I
don't think that they will be happy until only the non - LDS are able to
vote and the LDS and not allowed to vote! Then MAYBE they will be happy!
SCAT | 9:09 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
I knew as soon as I got into the comments section everyone was going to cry foul
at the LDS church, in no way shape or form is the church telling the local
government what to do. They are just stating what stance the church is taking,
and considering 70% of the state is LDS, I dont think that is all that out of
line. You people just come on here to spew your hate towards those that believe
drinking is not a healthy thing, just so you can have your two cents worth.
To terrorists | 8:24 | 9:40 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
You go! That's exactly what irresponsible drunks are! How many of us have
to die so drinkers can have their fun?
It's true not all drinkers are drunks, but every drinker I know has a story he believes to be hilarious about the time he got drunk and did something stupid.
Why should we lower barriers and encourage stupid, irresponsible, dangerous behavior?
Since drinkers are seldom responsible enough to be fully accountable for their actions, the "hospitality industry," -- which makes millions encouraging the dangerous and irresponsible behavior that kills more than 75,000 people every year -- should be held fully accountable, at least financially, for the true cost of the abomination they wreak on innocents!
Politicians -- are you listening?
It's true not all drinkers are drunks, but every drinker I know has a story he believes to be hilarious about the time he got drunk and did something stupid.
Why should we lower barriers and encourage stupid, irresponsible, dangerous behavior?
Since drinkers are seldom responsible enough to be fully accountable for their actions, the "hospitality industry," -- which makes millions encouraging the dangerous and irresponsible behavior that kills more than 75,000 people every year -- should be held fully accountable, at least financially, for the true cost of the abomination they wreak on innocents!
Politicians -- are you listening?
Ridiculous | 10:35 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008
What in the world does the LDS church have to do with Utah state law? I thought
government and religion were not supposed to be one in the same. Hmm sounds like
the governor needs his daddy bishop to bless him to make changes.
xscribe | 1:17 a.m. Sept. 18, 2008
I work in the attorneys every day who take depositions about red light runners,
speeders causing accidents, etc. This argument could go on and on. You want
the drunks off the road, but don't want to pay the taxes necessary to have
more law enforcement on the streets. I'm all for radar at every
intersection and on every highway to catch red-light runners and speeders - by
the way, I'll bet you don't break those laws, right - but that would
have "big government" spying on us, right? Sounds hypocritical to me.
To xscribe | 1:17 | 7:46 a.m. Sept. 18, 2008
Thanks for making my point for me.
The government shouldn't have to take on the burden of policing the drunks. That burden should fall on the backs of those that make billions by catering to and enabling them, the "hospitality industry," including the brewers, distillers, and distributors.
The full cost of "hospitality" must be borne by the industry profiting from it. That gives the industry incentives to prevent, rather than encourage the carnage on the roads.
Only then will we make a dent in the useless slaughter of 75,000 people a year -- all in the name of "having a little fun."
The government shouldn't have to take on the burden of policing the drunks. That burden should fall on the backs of those that make billions by catering to and enabling them, the "hospitality industry," including the brewers, distillers, and distributors.
The full cost of "hospitality" must be borne by the industry profiting from it. That gives the industry incentives to prevent, rather than encourage the carnage on the roads.
Only then will we make a dent in the useless slaughter of 75,000 people a year -- all in the name of "having a little fun."
Re: Anonymous 3:32 | 8:43 a.m. Sept. 18, 2008
"I think people are upset because only 60% of the population of Utah is
Mormon but 95% of the legislature is. Can you see how they might think that the
Church is running things?"
...considering the fact that they ELECTED that 95% of the legislature, they can't complain. Everybody votes according to their personal beliefs and morals, that's how it works. Of course somebody who is LDS is going to vote in line with LDS principles. Those who don't wish to live by the rules the local legislatures pass are more than welcome to elect somebody else in the next election who will pass different rules. Simple as that.
...considering the fact that they ELECTED that 95% of the legislature, they can't complain. Everybody votes according to their personal beliefs and morals, that's how it works. Of course somebody who is LDS is going to vote in line with LDS principles. Those who don't wish to live by the rules the local legislatures pass are more than welcome to elect somebody else in the next election who will pass different rules. Simple as that.
daryl | 9:07 a.m. Sept. 18, 2008
Bashing and arguements about an opinion from a church organization or any other enity is just ridiculous. It is a freedom we all have a right to. Now if you have a BETTER idea on what our government should do regarding the current drinking laws......I am all ears, and lets debate that.
To WOW|8:44 | 9:58 a.m. Sept. 18, 2008
The Catholic Church does not interfere with Italy or Rome. The Vatican is an
entity onto itself. The Cahtolic Church is a worldwide Church that takes on
issues on behalf of humanity. It is much different than the regionally based LDS
church that picks the battles that are in and precious to the little sliver of
Utah known as Zion.
Scott Gerlach | 10:00 a.m. Sept. 18, 2008
Greg - there is no separation of church and state in the Constitution. It's
derived from the misuse of a Thomas Jefferson letter where he was telling the
Danbury Baptists that government shouldn't be interfering with religion,
not the other way around. Imagine how different things would be in this country
if attorneys and judges just knew how to read....
As to the crowd crying "freedom" over all of this, shouldn't we just legalize everything and let people exercise their better judgement? I'm sure someone can smoke crack or pot responsibly, shoot heroine in moderation, or, heaven forbid in modern society, smoke a Marlboro in public.
Cigarettes are practically illegal because they became socially unacceptible. That came from both a public health AND public morality stand. I'll bet most of you who are screaming about booze were applauding over smoking restrictions. Either admit that you don't mind when the bias matches your view (ie. morals), or drop the bias all together. You're being hypocritical otherwise.
The Church isn't making law, it's expressing a moral opinion. That's what churches do. Get over it.
As to the crowd crying "freedom" over all of this, shouldn't we just legalize everything and let people exercise their better judgement? I'm sure someone can smoke crack or pot responsibly, shoot heroine in moderation, or, heaven forbid in modern society, smoke a Marlboro in public.
Cigarettes are practically illegal because they became socially unacceptible. That came from both a public health AND public morality stand. I'll bet most of you who are screaming about booze were applauding over smoking restrictions. Either admit that you don't mind when the bias matches your view (ie. morals), or drop the bias all together. You're being hypocritical otherwise.
The Church isn't making law, it's expressing a moral opinion. That's what churches do. Get over it.
I love the Church!! | 10:00 a.m. Sept. 18, 2008
The church has a major role in the community, they developed this state!! let us not forget the members were led to Utah, by Christ, to settle the valley and were taught how to make it livable for them and for future generations (us). They brought water to valleys, constructed places of dwelling... And all this was done through the inspiration of the Lord. He is very intelligent and all those who listen to his council will be made like wise. What a wonderful place we live in!
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day saints is true! The church belongs to Christ himself. He is the only perfect person who walked the earth. Much good will come from his council to any one who wants to listen!
To xscribe | 12:47 p.m. Sept. 18, 2008
It's the state, but the majority of people in this state are of a
particular worldview. That means that worldview is going to be more represented
in government than others. That's the nature of a democratic republic.
It's our nation's constitutional process working exactly as it should.
I think more people need to be educated about what our government is.
I think more people need to be educated about what our government is.
Tina | 8:55 a.m. Sept. 19, 2008
Looks like we need some jaw enforcement on here.
Rational | 1:05 p.m. Sept. 19, 2008
It doesn't matter if you think alcohol is bad for people or if you think
it destroys lives. The fact is it is legal and they have a right to do it. What
happened to free agency, I thought religons believed in that. Why can't we
give them the agency to choose for themselves instead of choosing for them
because we think we know better?
Anonymous | 5:36 p.m. Sept. 19, 2008
wine was used in the sacrament because the alcohol was a preservative and
prevented people from getting sick. in this day and age of refrigeration and
pasteuriazation that's no longer necessary. you get the very same health
benefits from drinking grape juice.
To Rational | 5:50 p.m. Sept. 19, 2008
Agency is a word that gets used to convince believers they have choices when in
fact they do not. Sadly, the deity many believe in is a "do it my way or
be punished" deity. The only "agency" one is afforded is to do
exactly what is prescribed by their religious organization, otherwise they are
evil.
Girgi | 2:54 a.m. Sept. 20, 2008
How lucky you people of Utah are.
No other problems to be concerned of.
No other problems to be concerned of.
drinking responsibly? | 5:26 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008
If you were responsible, you wouldn't drink. Everyone knows drinking
damages your body, and damaging your body doesn't sound responsible to me.
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It was about 40 years ago that the LDS church considered shopping on Sunday as a moral issue and successfully lobbied to get a law passed in Utah to make it illegal. The law has since been changed because of opposition.
Many Moslems still consider not letting girls get educated a "moral" issue, and of course (they say) god wants women to be completely covered. That is a moral issue from their point of view.
Catholics consider not using birth control a moral issue, Jehovas witiness say its immoral to transfuse blood.
It simply isn't right that religions put their peciluar laws on all people. Many of their rules are quite arbitrary. Religions aren't always the best judges of what is moral and what is not. If they were, why don't they agree? What does shopping on sunday have to do with morality?
Since the LDS church can't keep religion out of morality, it is best to leave what is moral up to people willing to think through the issues on a rational basis.