Deseret News | LDS Church posts statement on alcohol

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LDS Church posts statement on alcohol

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re: xscribe | 10:13 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

The answer to all your questions lie in "revelation". Without a testimony of revelation, your questions will be unanswered.

Moral Issues | 10:17 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

The church has every right to voice it's opinion on moral issues. Since the consequences of over drinking leads to a moral issue...it would only make sense they would make a statement.

Frankly, I see many people posted their opinion's above. What makes you think your opinion is more important than anyone else's opinion on this issue.

It is a proven fact that alcohol consumption affects more than the individual who is downing the drink.

Umm.... HELLO | 10:15 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

A majority of the people in Utah are LDS. Maybe that has something to do with a good share of the elected officials being LDS. The state government should represent the majority who elected them. This isn't rocket science. People are always crying about LDS beliefs effecting state policy. Ummm... HELLO MCFLY this is Utah and a lot of LDS people live here. I'm thinking that is how a democracy works. I'm sure you non-LDS whiners vote for those who most reflect your values, why can't LDS people do the same?

Comments continue below

The real sheep | 10:19 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Are the religious people "sheep" blindly following dictates from an omnipotent leader? OR Is there a greater example of mind numbing slavery than allegiance to alcohol? It is expensive, unhealthy for sure, it dulls senses, clouds judgment, confuses emotions-all this at ONE single drink and far worse with more. A sober mind has clarity, focus, and real UN manipulated feeling and emotion, and with them the ability to make an educated, thoughtful decision. I can choose to start drinking whenever I want, I just can't think of ONE good reason to start! There sure are a lot of good reasons to stop, yet you don't. Who are the sheep?

EdM | 10:31 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Good googly moogly! I am going to celebrate and pop open a cold one.....of root beer, that is!

Re: States' Rights | 10:33 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Majority rule does not mean unlimited rule and the concept of state's rights does not change that fact. The 14th amendment made the Bill of Rights applicable to the states. Whether the majority is composed of Mormons or Muslims, that majority cannot simply impose its will; that's nothing more than tyranny of a majority. Legislation has to bear some rational and demonstrable relationship to a valid legislative purpose (e.g. the public health and safety). Seen in that way, it is appropriate for government to legislate about the consumption of alcohol, but only to the extent that it actually affects public health and safety (e.g. drunken driving). The private club laws should clearly go.

re linus 9:53 | 10:40 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

"You boozers should consider yourselves fortunate that our laws DO NOT implement my religious beliefs".

Since you are so willing to legislate health and safety, what other things besides alcohol have you spoken out on, that need to be legislated?

Please point give me a google search where I might verify what you say.

D & C 89 | 10:44 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

1 A WORD OF WISDOM, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zionï¿½
2 To be sent greeting; NOT BY COMMANDMENT OR CONSTRAINT, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and WILL OF GOD in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last daysï¿½
3 GIVEN FOR A PRINCIPLE with a promise, adapted to the capacity of the bweak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.

These are YOUR scriptures folks. My question to you is: Why did the CHURCH take it upon itself to override GOD's WILL and change it from a "Word of Wisdom" to a COMMANDMENT?

Steve Sidwell | 10:48 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Will the law hold servers of alcohol responsible for the injuries sustained by intoxicated patrons?

Hello? | 10:46 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Did the writer of this article even read the church statement? I think they only caught the last paragraph! Go read it for yourself. It doesnt really endorse any particular stance and seems more for NOT changing current laws too much to make us more like other states than anything...

Learn to read folks

Anti-PC Infidel | 10:51 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

>Let's legalize adulthood in Utah, shall we?

But then you'd have to leave.

@ Prosecutor | 10:51 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

"Freedom is the bedrock of our religion", what a load of carp. The LDS church has no problem acting like a dictator any chance they get. When the governor asked for the chuch's view about this issue, they should have said they don't meddle in politics or state matters, then make their position clear from their pulpits where their opinions are accepted and even expected. Instead they make a formal announcement furthering their control over he people of this state.

And Linus, If Utah were a dry state like you would like to see, how would you suggest we pay for all those programs (like education and school lunches for low income families)that are funded from the "sin" taxes received off of liquor sales??

Pete | 10:55 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

All of you guys and gals against the fact that there should be stricter alcohol laws, try having a family member killed or maimed for life because of a drunk. Maybe your point of view will change a bit.

Truth | 10:57 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Simply another example of the LDS Church making an attempt to assert their "dominance" over life in Utah. I wonder, really how many actual active members live in this state? They used to like to quote 70 percent. Then it changed to 60 percent. Is the truth something closer to less than 50 percent? All the hyperbole aside, just how truly Mormon is the citizenry of Utah?

Roscoe | 11:04 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Why doesn't the Church concern itself with the "freedoms" of its own flock and leave the rest of us alone to enjoy our freedoms? It seems to me if the Church members practice what they preach, you could have alcohol freely available everywhere and they'd have no worries, right? Choose the right!

magnus | 11:19 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

I think people forget this simple fact...

While it is true that there is to be separation of CHURCHES and STATE there can never be sparation of Faith and morals and state. The laws of our country are based on the prevailing moral sentiment of the MAJORITY of the people.

If the Majority of Utahns chose to make everybody go to a single store to buy alchohol or decide to outlaw tobacco or decide that it is illegal to go outside without shoes on then that is the way it should be.

You see the funny thing about democracy is that why the majority choses to vote the way it does doesn't matter, whoever has the most votes wins.

I'm tired of the Minority ruling this country, wether it is the Neo-Cons or the Progressives when you give the minority too much power the majority of people will suffer.

Utah is a great place to live. While some of the laws may not make sense to everybody, at least the majority of people are happy.

call me stupid | 11:30 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we shall die.

oh yeah, I didn't think the LDS church could pass laws, only those we elect?

Ello | 11:34 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

There are many people here who ask "why would you drink anyway?"

I will give you a few answers.
1.It is very tasteful, Most Utahns over-eat because they like food, I don't publicly insult them for engaging in the #1 killer in America (heart disease.

2.The Gods gave us Wine and Beer to enjoy, we can trace beer all the way back to Ancient Egypt, and Wine goes to Mesopotamia and Persia. These beverages play an integral role in human society. They are not healthy when we ABUSE them, but I am certain that NOTHING is healthy when it is abused.

Most Utahns think that if you drink then you "get drunk every time you drink". This just show their ignorance on the subject.
Most people that drink do so at dinner, maybe a glass of wine, this is healthy and is not "equal to hitting yourself with a hammer".
You need to educate yourself before you speak.

Just because you have no self control and think that the non-LDS world must act like what you wish you could do does not make it true.

Chris Plummer | 11:37 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

There seems to be a major lack of respect from Mormons towards drinkers in this thread. If you don't drink great... but don't be stumped when the majority of the world enjoys a drink. Thats the kind of talk that fuels the fire between Mormons and non-Mormons in this state.
If I recall from the D&C the plan of salvation was dependent on freedom of choice. Forcing people to do good was Satan's plan, not God's. So do us all a favor and follow your scriptures.

Jan San | 11:38 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

I believe for the most part that choice should be given - but on this subject I think that any pregnant woman drinking alcohlo should have the book thrown at her!! I am talking care of my grandson (8yrs old) who have fetal alcohol and will have to live the rest of his life with this deficit because his mother wanted to have a good time. Any consumtion of alcohol while pregnant can cause defects in the fetus that has no choice over the matter.
To: Poco Vinco.. I think that the Lord did this excellently!! He knew that many were additicted and there for gave them a warning and time to get over it. Then HE made it a commandment. Thus a Loving Father knowing that some would need time before they could live it as a commandment.

fc_jane | 11:40 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

No matter what one's feelings are about alcohol or the LDS church, it's a relief to hear so many opinions being expressed in this forum in a relatively mature and civil manner. Unlike (ahem) some other places I've been on the internet!

I'd love to see the private club law repealed, if only for a short time to see what the impact would be on DUI-related accidents in this state. I don't think the numbers will change much. If the numbers remain the same, why not make clubs more accessable and convenient? Anyone who disagrees with those values can always choose not to imbibe.

re Roscoe | 11:42 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

No way, it's our way or No way. If we can't have it, no one should. We Know Best.

Intolerant | 11:42 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

hm...when did the church start to control state government? the idea of theocracy drives me insane. The only reasons people come to Utah: 1) Sundance 2) Skiing/snowboarding/outdoor recreation.
Surprise, most people in and out of the US drink daily. Now someone driving while inebriated is completely stupid and intolerant. I just feel that even though the majority of Utah is LDS, they should consider what this would do and what message this sends to the non LDS residents and future tourists. Its just another unappealing fact to place on the "Why I should EVER visit Utah."

I also agree with Bigots, there are people out there who hate on LDS people and are ignorant, but you LDS people need to be a little more open minded.

UTAH is a bubble and something huge needs to happen in order to pop it so that people here start to open their minds!!!!!

Anonymous | 11:45 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

re: Tom | 1:59 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

>>So where's the problem? The Church itself has no voting rights whatsoever.<<

Then, let them continue to influence publicy & take away their tax exempt status... Think of all that $ that would go to education. Oops. I mean more roads & public transporation boondoggles.

MMMMMM. | 11:53 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

VOTE FOR ORANGE JUICE ONLY!!!

Dick | 11:54 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

To all you folks who believe in the Bible, may I recommend that you carefully study Galations 5:13-26. Note "drunkenness in verse 21.

Also, study 2 Timothy 3:1-7. ARE WE THERE???

We who are LDS strongly believe in the above and join forces with any other Christian who does likewise.

Well actually there is... | 11:56 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Well actually there ARE several examples of the LDS church inserting themselves into politics in an oblique fashion...gay marriage amendments (like the one in California now) and in the 1970s with the ERA proposed amendment. There are others as well. I'm not saying this is wrong, necessarily, everyone including institutions have a right to opinions, but it is inaccurate to say the LDS church never dictates anything...just needed to say that.

I've also lived in six other states and have never seen anything like the situation here with a large religious organization having so much indirect sway on state politics. I'm not saying it is all bad or good, but it is unique, in my experience.

Arkansas | 12:05 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

I live in Utah and find it is much easier to buy here than in most places in the South. As a VP of a resort management group, alcohol was the way we showed appreciation to some of our clients. I got a call on a Sunday afternoon letting me know that the President of Fairfield Resorts would be arriving at one of our resorts in Northern Arkansas that night and we were to make sure we had his whisky in his room. One of my employees drove six hours to find this silly bottle. We ended up driving to Memphis in order to buy liquor. Over half of counties in the South have stricter laws than Utah and ALL of them are controlled by religious groups. Catholics in Louisiana, Baptists in Missouri, Tennessee and Arkansas.

I just moved to Utah. The laws are making it easy to get your fix. I read the statement written by the LDS Church and it simply telling us to be more cautious. As a newer citizen to the state of Utah, I am not offended. I've lived in 7 different states and traveled to all 50. Utah is the best state.

Anonymous | 12:05 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

clarity often sparks such interesting conversation don't you think?

xscribe | 12:15 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Dear Know Your History,

Hope you read the labels on everything you ingest, because there's a lot of bad ingredients in almost everything you buy, but I'll bet you eat only organically grown fruit and vegetables from your own garden and kill your own meat. Can you also answer the question for me about Jesus and his followers drinking wine? How do we know they weren't drinking to a drunken stupor? You definitely seem to be an authority, so let me know.

Disappointed | 12:21 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

I am disappointed that the LDS Church is agreeing to weakening the alchol restrictions in Utah. Utah should be a dry state completely. The Chuch is giving into pressure. How sad. I am surprised that people are apologizing for Utah's rules on alcohol. We should be proud of it. Shame on the Church.

Darkside of me | 12:23 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Too bad the church cares for everyone too much to not knock the poision right out of your hands. The Church time and again has put a hand forward to try and save people from themselfs. I wish I was that caring.

I'm not though. Thats something I have to work on, but I would gladly see the alcohol laws drop, and people drink themselves away. Gladly see the people yelling against other laws/recommendations get their wish and drive themselfs deep into the pit in front of their face. Then people like me with a farther perspective could get ahead a lot quicker.

to: xcribe | 12:25 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

It doesn't make any sense to try to explain the why's to non believers or peple who goes to church once a year or never, or pray their God when they are in trouble, so please BE QUIET!

Chris Plummer | 12:26 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Re: Disappointed
So you would like to impose your rules on everyone? Restrict freedom of choice? I would think you would feel more righteous by not drinking when it is readily available rather then having the temptation removed.

Magnus | 12:48 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

@ Dissapointed

I am LDS and have never had a drink in my life and think Utah would be a better place if it was "dry" but that isn't the issue here. The fact is that Utahs liquor laws are stupid.

Does anybody really believe that making every place that serves hard alcohol "Members Only" has any effect on peoples drinking habits?

Ummmm.... | 12:55 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Isn't the imposing of moral rules while limiting choice the EXACT idea that was presented by Satan in the Pre-Existance?? And we were so opposed to this that there was a war and one third were cast out?

Isn't the church doing the same thing and using the same argument used then, that it's for the greater good of all?? ANd that they know best.

C'mon now, who's going to be the first to say "Well, that's different" because I don't see it.

Hollywood | 12:56 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Well put, "Religons Don't Rule" (and several others). In a democracy/republic every city and state will enact laws representative of the majority of those people. Are those laws influenced by the spiritual beliefs of the said majority? Certainly. Is that wrong? Well, we're all guided by something. So whether it is our belief in a god, in nature, ourselves, or a belief in the absence of any higher power, we are all guided by a belief in something.

If my views differ from the majority, then I can try to change something I disagree with, either by challenging the legality of the law or by trying to persuade others it is wrong. Or I can congregate to a city/state where more share that same view (a majority hopefully), if it is something I deem as an absolutely fundamental item to my exisitence or happiness.

Congrats to those that have challenged the liqour laws as unreasonable and worked to get them changed. That is a victory for them.

I just don't see why every issue has to result in verbal warfare between members and opponenst of the LDS Church.

Callie T | 12:57 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

I agree that drunk drivers should get the full penalty of the law. They ruin lives. However there are many responsible drinkers. I have a glass of red wine two times a week for the health benefits. It is unfair to penalize the responsible drinkers.

One more point I find it ironic that the LDS religion is so concerned with the negative effects of tea and coffee that they fail to see the positive side of drinking those beverages. Green tea is made up of EGCG an antioxidant that can inhibit the growth of cancer cells. Coffee has been known to make people more alert. Obviously the key is MODERATION. It is also funny that coffee, tea and alcohol are taboo for health reasons but the majority of church attendees are obese. Why are exercise and eating healthy NOT part of the word of wisdom? These people are a drain on our economy. Interesting!!!

Anonymous | 1:04 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

"laws and regulations that allow individual freedom of choice. ... "

This is exactly where they or any church should stand on any legal issue, regardless of their official teachings are to thier followers. So I applaud them for making the statement.

Utah's liquer laws do need to be changed, but as stated by others here, they are not the only one's . I live in NJ and I can't even buy a beer anywhere but at a bar or a liquer store. In GA where I used to live, you can buy beer or wine at a grocery store, but not on a Sunday (like it matters what day you buy it). In case you are wondering, I grew up in Utah and still have ties there, that is why I check out the Deseret News.

Mona | 1:08 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

"The Real Sheep" is right on. The mind-numbing slavery of alcohol not only clouds judgment but entraps and enslaves. Even "responsible drinkers" are at risk. My own mother drank "responsibly" for decades--I never ever saw her drunk or even tipsy--snd then at around age 50 discovered she was an alcoholic & she then checked herself into a clinic. At some point she had, perhaps unwittingly, upped the level she was drinking & then couldn't stop.

Observing the effect of alcohol on my mom & also neighbors & friends motivated me to never, ever drink a drop, & I never have. As a result I have never humiliated myself by barfing in public from too much to drink, or by acting stupid, & I've never caused a wreck from drunk driving, all because I just don't partake. It's a great life.

There's much good that happens in this world but not one bit of the good happened because people partook of alcohol.

Chris Plummer | 1:15 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

RE: Mona
"There's much good that happens in this world but not one bit of the good happened because people partook of alcohol."

I would beg to differ. Our founding fathers wrote the constitution and declaration of independence with beer in hand. Nothing like a good beer to lighten the mood.

Au Contraire! | 1:17 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

RE: "There's much good that happens in this world but not one bit of the good happened because people partook of alcohol."

Au contraire! The more you drink, the better I look at closing time!

@ Mona | 1:20 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

What about the mind numbing effects of religions that tell their members to "Pay, Pray and obey"? And makes it's members slaves to the church?

"God gave us beer because He loves us and wants us to be happy." - Ben Franklin-

And does anyone care to comment about Brigham Youngs involvment in alcohol manufacturing and sales in Utah's early years? Or about the tavens he owned? Or how it was all fine because he had "no problem seperating the gentiles from their money".

The LDS church isn't as squeaky clean as many on here want to believe. Especially when it comes to the issue of alcohol.

xscribe | 1:22 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

That's because you can't explain it.

Dave in Midavale | 1:27 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

TO: xscribe @ 12:46 AM (Yes, that's almost 1 o'clock in the morning

I am proud to be an American where my family has risked life and limb for you to have the right to say pretty much what you want in this forum.

The LDS Church has NO "direct" control over any part of the Utah State Government. If you think so, you're a fool. But, of course, they have a very "indirect influence" on the government. That indirect influence is in NO WAY illegal or even inappropriate. If you are still naive enough to think that "the Church" is not worthy of tax empt status because of "government involvement," then take a look at "The" Church in Boston and all Massachusetts (and New York, etc etc.).

Yes | 1:33 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." - Ben Franklin

Not all drinkers are irresponsible. I don't see why a majority of these posters are slamming drinkers.

I am glad they are considering changing the law. I hate having to explain the liquor laws to people who come here to ski. People from out of state have such bad misconceptions and about the current liquor laws that they choose to ski in Colorado or Lake Tahoe. I think this move will help Utah's ski and tourism industry tremendously.

The business of alcohol also contributes greatly to our economy. Without it there would be less cab drivers, restaurants, servers, attorneys, sports teams, concerts, etc. Lets face it folks - alcohol provides a living for millions of Americans.

This hopefully the first of many changes to come.

GET OUT OF UTAH THEN | 1:40 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

I donï¿½t live in Utah, nor do I want to. But I think a lot of morons live in Utah. Why not move out of Utah if you donï¿½t like the rules they make. You dorkS who stay. Havenï¿½t you realized yet that the majority of Utahans are Mormons? Majority rules. Thatï¿½s how it is in this country. If you donï¿½t like that fact, then move to a different country.

Dear fellow LDS | 1:46 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

I have to say that I'm a bit flabbergasted. Yes, we believe that we shouldn't drink. But that's because we're Mormon. Now, the first newsflash: Not all of your neighbors are Mormon! And I don't care if drinking has no apparent inherent value. Neither does a Snickers bar. Whether my neighbor chooses to eat one or drink the other is none of my business. A small minority may abuse one or both, but...and here's the second newsflash...they have the AGENCY to make that decision! Take away the Word of Wisdom and I'll get along. Take away my agency, and my life ends as I know it. If your neighbor wants a bit of beer or wine, let 'em have the dadgum beer or wine! And if it ain't Sunday, I'll even buy!

Brother Joseph | 2:06 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Joseph Smith drank wine on occasion, as well as drinking regular tea.

The Word of Wisdom, or should I say parts of it, have turned into absolute doctrine within the Church because of what a few leaders have said over the years. In the Church it seems that is all it takes for things to drift from opinion, to advice, to absolute doctrine.

As a member, it is my belief that it was never intended to be that way.

re:Xscribe | 2:06 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

I'll try to answer your question.

I'm not LDS.

Let's pretend that Christ, Thomas Monson, Ghandi, the Dahlai Lama, and George Washington all got totally blasted at a party...

How does that impact my or anyone elses decision to drink or not to drink. Do you do things because others do?

I lost my best friend to a drunk driver (he was the driver, and I was often with him when either of us would be driving impaired). I miss my friend.

I could be dead, but I'm not.

I lost another good friend to meth.

I don't care if Christ himself came down with a 6-pack of Molson and suggested we party, not happening.

I think the church is well within it's rights to counsel it's membership. It's up to them to create a community they like.

Choose for yourself...

I do...

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