Deseret News | LDS Church posts statement on alcohol

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LDS Church posts statement on alcohol

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JohnJ | 8:34 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Stop typing in all caps. It is bad manners.

SamuelTheNebraskan | 8:35 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

So many people assume that whenever a member of the LDS church expresses an opinion (including members of the Legislature) that their opinion must also be the opinion of the church. So when the Utah legislature takes a strong stance, it seems people inevitably blame the church if they do not like that position. The church expresses opinions, and takes official positions quite rarely. It is okay for people to think and form opinions for themselves.

People, people, let's reason | 8:37 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

People, people, calm down! Let us "reason together". No reasonable person expects any change in DUI rates based on the potential changes to liquor laws. If you want to consume liquor here, you can, but there are unnecessary hassals that only make us look very "colloquial" and "backwards". Removing these restrictions will take away a point of contention between us and our neighbors, with whom we have poor relations and need to fix them. The church should not exercise the control it does over politics, true. It gets denied all the time but the reality is they do exercise control, sometimes they don't even mean to exercise the control, but given the large majority of Mormons it is inevitable.

Comments continue below

Re: SpySmiley | 8:40 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

The DN published statements from the Catholic church on illegal immigration a short time ago. So yes the DN would print the Catholic church stance on this issue. I've seen numerous articles on other religions statements on issues. Either you don't read the paper or have a short memory. The majority of the Utah population is LDS. Therefore a majority of the people in state govenment are LDS. Should this be suprising? No it shouldn't be, it's just common sense.

Clayton | 8:42 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

I'm baffled by this. The LDS Church has nothing whatever to do with the regulation of Alcohol in Utah or on the Legislature. I'm not from Utah but have lived in 7 other states where a major religion that shall remain nameless had control of city and state government. I don't ever recall once feeling like that church had to make a statement on day to day operations of the city although I knew that the principles of those who governed was guided by their belief system. Why is it so hard for people in Utah to allow for the same benefit of the doubt to LDS people in this state.

BTW. My wife and I grew up Catholic and converted to the LDS Church and have never seen so much opposition to the LDS Church as we have here.

Hip, Hip, Hooray! | 8:43 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Finally the church has seen the stupidity of the private club law, hopefully now we can remove it from Utah bars.

It doesn't do anything to limit the number of drinks a person has. All it does is limit WHERE people go to have a drink. It would be nice to frequent different establishments and not have to pay for "membership" to each and every one.

xscribe | 8:43 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

To: KNOW YOUR HISTORY:

Trust me, I know about the Mormon history, having been born and raised in Southern Utah and growing up in a Mormon family. One of my questions then, when I was a kid, was: Why is coffee bad? Why is alcohol bad? I remember debates about Jesus drinking wine, and I was always told, It didn't have alcohol in it; it was more like juice. No one can give me a good answer to this day about coffee. It all comes down to: You just have to have faith that what our leaders are telling us is the truth. Sorry, I had questions then, and I have those same questions today.

To: RE: XSCRIBE: I believe most churches should lose their tax exempt status. I'd be willing to bet there's less than a handful out there that don't use the money they receive to make themselves rich. Oh, but gambling is another one of those questions I had, as stated above, that never seems to get answered with an intelligent answer to. You've Just got to have faith, and don't ask questions! Religion should stay out of public policy, period. We need an athiest president!

Sal | 8:47 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

The Church has spoken and now our Brothren on the hill will fall in line. Isn't it nice to be governed by the church.

Know your history | 8:49 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

It gets a little old listening to various people complain about Utah and the LDS church. Predominantly what brings people of any religion or background to Utah is the atmosphere that is conducive to raising a family and the strong community values. I say this to all who have a problem with LDS church and any other religious involvement in law making. "Welcome to Utah! Now go home!"

Anonymous | 8:55 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Re: JohnJ: Newsflash for you; It wasn't the alcohol that destroyed your life, it was you. If you've been to 12 step programs, you would know that. The first step to recover from anything is stop blaming your problems on something else. Also, STOP YELLING.

Anonymous | 8:58 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Re: "Here we go again". Doesn't your religion teach you to be respectful of others? It sounds like you could you a drink to relax a little bit.

Yes Virginia... | 8:58 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

...there are "responsible drinkers".

Believe it or not, there are a large percentage of people who drink, that do not drive, do not beat their wives or children, and do not want to "turn SLC into the streets of Deadwood, So. Dakota during the goldrush".

Those that scream for a ban on alcohol are wasting their breath. Yes, crimes occur when people are drunk but, they also occur when people are sober. They also occur when they are high on drugs (which ARE illegal). The hard-core drinkers and drug users are going to drink and use no matter what laws are in affect. So, why punish the drinkers that CAN drink responsibly?

Town Heathan | 9:01 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Kentucky - Your right...there are other places that still have religious archic laws. That doesn't make them "right" either.

If you were to go nation wide, I suspect that there are more people that would support the consumption of alcohol than there would be that would prohibit the use of alcolhol.

It's annoying to have come from states that allow the freedom of choice and then to come to a state...like UTAH where the # 1 religion professes to support GOD's PLAN of freedom of choice, yet they continually support laws and rules that prohibit people freedom of choice.

That said... I have to agree that drunk people are stupid. They should get punished when they do things against the law...as should anyone who breaks ANY law...

But you can't start singling out one part of society and declare it bad and evil, without opening up scrutiny for other things that that same scrutiny might affect.

If LDS people are so worried about the health affect of alcohol, maybe they should also quit porking out...I mean have you seen the size of those women & men in church lately?

nyaa nyaa nyaa | 9:06 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

If you don't like it leave. nyaa nyaa

re Tom | 1:59 a.m. | 9:07 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

"So where's the problem? The Church itself has no voting rights whatsoever. Those members who agree with the church's positions, vote in representatives to make decisions/laws that reflect their personal views".

Here is the problem. Religions should not try to put in their own unique rules into law. The mechanism by which they do this, in this case getting their members in positions of power to do this is irrevelant.

If you live in a town, and the Moslems move there, and then vote to force girls to get circumcised, or to not allow dogs, (They don't like dogs) or to force women to wear head covering), or to force men to wear beards, ... well you get the idea.

If any of these ideas pass, it will be individual moslem citizens voting for these measures, not the "church" itself. This is wrong. Religions and religious people should exercise self restraint and not do this.

If there is a need to restrict liquor because of public safety, fine, do it on that basis. The fact that it isn't being done on that basis is evident that the church doesn't get involved in speed limits, so why alcohol?

More LDS double talk | 9:09 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

I love it when the church says something like creating "laws that allow freedom of choice" then they do all they can to limit peoples choices.

Seen it before, seeing it again and again. And the sheeple in Zion just eat it up.

New Resident of Utah | 9:10 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

After moving here from Arizona and growing up in Texas I have had a rude awakening to life in Utah. I know for a fact that the alcohol laws have a huge affect on minors doing drugs or resorting to drugs. I have never seen such a meth problem than I have seen in this State. I think that the alcohol laws should be like any other States. Taking those alcohol rights away from people will only push them to find other routes to party, unfortunately it is very harsh drugs. Also not having access to alcohol only raises curiouslity to use it. I hope that the laws will change for the well-being of this meth infested State.

Ghost | 9:13 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Thanks, Religions don't "RULE", thanks for bringing some sanity to this issue. I think most people who move to this state feel the same way. I have lived in California, Minnesota and Ohio and have worked in most major cities in America, and I find the quality of life in Utah to be the best anywhere. Thanks to the LDS and non-LDS people who have made this such a great place to raise a family.

re Here we go again | 2:00 a.m. | 9:14 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Here we go again | 2:00 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008
Why would anyone with a brain drink alcohol?

Um, I don't know, ask the early christians, as well as their founder. Drinking alcohol was a custom among them. Drunkenness was frounded on, but not moderate drinking.

Don't believe it, who turned water into wine? If you think this was grape juice, then why did the lord of the feast say, when people are well drunk, the worse wine is served, but you have put out the best wine last. Read your New Testament.

Alcohol like a hammer is not evil. It can be used to enhanse life is used in moderation and used properly. Used improperly it can cause damage.

You must resist the temptation to put others into the same straight jacket that your religion puts on you. You wouldn't want the rules of other religion to become law for you would you? Jehovas Witness believe blood transfusions are evil. If their citizens voted to not allow them, you might have a family member that dies as a result.

I am illustrating a point here that just because feel you have to live restricted, don't do it to others.

Extremes | 9:19 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

FYI, Mormons...most drinkers think that drunk driving is heinous and despicable too. The LDS idea of a drinker is someone who drinks until they're blind drunk. However, most drinkers do so responsibly and share your feelings about alcohol-related crimes. The most irresponsible drinkers I know are the LDS who decide after a rough week to tie one on. Read up on moderation, it will serve you well.

Stepping aside | 9:19 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

This is not a case of the LDS church dictating anything. This is a case where the government was debating the idea of updating our liquor laws and lots of people were assuming that the LDS church was to blame for the ridiculous liquor laws we have. So the church wisely came out with a statement that basically says "We don't care what you do with your liquor laws. Stop blaming us."

Guess What | 9:20 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Guess what everyone? I went out this weekend with some friends. we took a cab downtown and had dinner and some drinks. We then walked to a bar and paid $5 to get in to have another drink. Around 11 pm we called a cab and went home. We had a great time. Alcohol is not bad for all people. If you have never drank in your whole life, please stop telling everyone hw bad alcohol is. Most people are responsible drinkers.

*Sigh* | 9:23 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

First off you elect officials for their beliefs, if you don't like them then elect someone else. It's that simple.

Secondly, alcohol doesn't ruin lives, people do. It's the same as the gun argument. A drunk driver plows into a group of people as a few of you described, and this is very trajic, but alcohol was not driving the car. The moron behind the wheel was. I enjoy a beer here and there. Literally a 12 pack can last me 4 months, but I enjoy it. I will never be the cause of a drunk driving accident I guarantee it.

Third, for a group of people that have never had a drink you sure have a lot of insight into the effects of alcohol. Keep your comments in perspective.

Fourth for the guy that lost 3 marraiges and is in a wheelchair. Alcohol didn't do this to you, YOU DID!!! Quit blaming alcohol. It's like blaming a bottle of pills because you purposely overdosed on them.

The Golden Rule Applies | 9:21 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

In the early christian church, moderate drinking was the custom, drunkness was discouraged. Didn't the founder turn water into wine?

If we are to have alcohol laws, let reason and public good be the foundation, not religion. Religion has no place placing its unique rules on the rest of society.

If you disagree, didn't Jesus say to do unto others as you would have them do unto you? Ask yourself if you would want other religions forcing you to abide by their unique rules.

Jason Miller | 9:22 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Y'all need to calm down and stop making such a big deal out if this Alcohol thing. Why don't you try living in the South, where there are entire "DRY COUNTIES"? Yes, how's that for controlling and dominating?

And guess what? Here in North Carolina we have ABC stores just like Utah does. Yep, any hard liquor is sold out of an ABC store. Go figure. And the Mormons are nowhere to be found out here....

What is sad | 9:23 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Is that to reform anything in this state that is tied to LDS beliefs the Church has to issue a statement on it. I am still concerned that a flat tax that had great momentum died the second the Church issued a statement against it.

Church Regulation | 9:23 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

The church has always tried to regulate Alcohol sales. At Winter quarters, all members had to surrender their whiskey and other alcohol to their Bishop, who became the only authorized seller of alcohol and all members were instructed to purchase their drinks from him and no one else.

Just Say No | 9:26 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Alcohol is a deadly and addictive drug. Drinkers place a heavy burden on the healthcare system, courts, welfare services and employers. They harm others through violence, crime, accidents, family breakdown and lost labor productivity. More damage is caused to individuals, families and society by alcohol than any other drug - legal or illegal. Every individual or group with a stake in the community is obliged to speak up on the subject of alcohol laws. Churches in particular are in the front line of having to deal with the consequences of alcohol use and therefore ought to be listened to more than others. Do the anti-Mos want to liberalize laws on heroin, speed and crack too and shout down those who would oppose these drugs?

Anonymous | 9:30 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

If the LDS church is concerned about public safety, here are some issues that need addressing.

Speed limits.
Skate boarding and riding bikes without helmets.
Wearing Seat belts.
Walking across the street without looking both ways.
Alcohol use.
Drive only when necessary to reduce risk of accident

Church against drinking | 9:35 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Here is the a Catholic view on drinking...... it is not healthy and not good. All the people fighting the LDS church here are fighting most of the churches. Yes I think the LDS church has a lot of people running Utah's government but in matters of protecting people I think it is fine.

What would Jesus do? | 9:34 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Would it be right for catholics to pass laws to not allow birth control.

For moslems to pass laws not to allow dogs? After all sometimes peoples dogs attack people, so there is a safety issue here.

for jehovas witness to pass laws to not allow you to get a blood transfusion if you need one?

Didn't our master teacher tell us to treat others as we would want to be treated?

Know your history | 9:35 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

I agree with the Mesa AZ resident, you can't expect to come to a place that you find pleasant and a good environment and ask to incorporate all your own ideas and expect that environment you found so pleasant to remain as it is. It would be better for you to remain where you are and just visit on occasion so you can keep the lifestyle you have grown accustomed to. We mormons are who we are, not perfect by any means, but we will not change our beliefs because a few take exception to the idea!

Want to drink? | 9:37 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Instead of paying for a membership, you check your keys at the door. You don't get them back unless you pass a rigorous sobriety test as you leave. No pass, no keys. It's pretty simple. Any bar that circumvents the rules, gets shut down.

re:Bigots? | 9:39 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Hey, if you don't like it here, please stay. I am tolerant of what you do. Go to the state Liquor store and load up on the hardstuff, stop at a 7-11 and get a six-pack, eat at Applebees or Iggys and have a Bloody Mary, or a Margarita, it's all good. No one cares what you do. Be a responsible person, and you are totally fine.

Stay for the small town life, the snow, and live your life to the fullest.

Nobody can tell you any different.

Now, then, really, what is your beef?

Is it that Mormons are weird? Most are. Even I think so, and I'm one.

Sorry about that.

Is it because we all dress up and carry suitcases to the Temple? We do. Sorry again.

Is it that we won't drink with you? Some will, some won't.

I guess I just don't see what you are talking about, but really, please stay. You add to the cultural fabric that makes our community, and we want you here to enjoy life as we have it.

Just do your own thing, and realize most Mormons aren't worried about what you are doing. They have too many kids.

AZ | 9:43 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

People don't you have something more to do than worry about weather your going to have a drink on Saturday night or not????? People get a life.

pink ribbon | 9:45 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Several years ago the LDS leadership opposed bringing pari-mutual (sp?) betting to Utah, so, of course, the measure didn't pass in the Legislature. Never mind that many members of the church make road trips to Wendover and Wyoming Downs.

Now the legislature and governor are, essentially, asking permission of the church to change the liquor laws. Ridiculous.

Those of you who have shared your horror stories about alcohol and its effects, I'm sorry your lives have been affected in this manner. Apparently people in these cases were irresponsible regardless of the strictness of Utah's laws. The passage of the 18th amendment ushered in the most lawless period in American history.

The idiotic laws that are now on the books make it difficult for adults who know how to drink responsibly to get a drink. Yes, in spite of the brainwashing, it is a fact that it is possible to drink responsibly.

Let's legalize adulthood in Utah, shall we?

Know your history | 9:46 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Dear xscribe, I can answer the coffee question for you. There is tanic acid in tea and coffee not to mention caffeine in some. Both substances are harmful to your body. Tanic acid has been used to tan hides for years. Common sense tells me that it would not be good for me. Caffeine is not far from the molecular structure of nicotine. They are both addictive and mind altering. Having your heart race constantly from the effects of both substances is not healthy and severely damaging to your heart. This is from a medical standpoint not just religious. I think the creator of our bodies knows a little more than we do about what is good for us. The LDS church is not trying to legislate morals or religion. They are just trying to protect the innocent and the community they helped to build, from the devistating effects of alcohol.

KIT | 9:49 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

A couple of months ago people made a fuss when some liquor law went into effect, blaming the LDS church for it. Then the churchg realizes that people are blaming them for these laws and makes a statement qhat non-lds people of Utah wanted to hear and now look at you all. There is no pleasing the non-LDS population of Salt Lake City. It doesn't matter what the LDS church does they are going to whine about it. Just do whatever the heck you want they'll hate you anyways is my philosophy.
And Town Heathan I was surprised to hear that you've been in church lately to see how fat we've become.

Prosecutor | 9:50 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

The Church's statement is a restatement of our doctrine. Freedom is the bedrock of our religion -- what we fought for in the antemortal war with Satan.

It's unfortunate that politicians and the "hospitality" industry are likely to view the statement as license to exalt love of money over protection of the people.

The companion of freedom is accountability. That's sadly lacking in our motor vehicle code.

The very first time a driver demonstrates an inclination to endanger others by his free choice to drive drunk, we should permanently bar him from driving. That's because we just can't afford to trust him behind the wheel of such a dangerous and deadly instrument.

We've got to place the burden on him to show us proof of reeducation and rehabilitation -- by _years_ of responsible behavior -- before he is ever permitted to operate a vehicle amongst unsuspecting innocents again. And anyone caught driving in defiance of this law should do _years_ in the slammer and be forever barred from driving.

I doubt they'll do so, but the legislature should think more of us, the ones who elected them, than they do of their campaign contributors.

We're watching.

Linus | 9:53 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

I'm an active member of the LDS Church. I would be greatly disappointed if the Church didn't take a clear stand and state a clear position on issues that effect quality of physical and spiritual life.

The benefits of a sober citizenry are well documented. The hazards of alcohol consumption are well documented. If my beliefs were legislated, Utah would be a teetotaling, altogether dry state. You boozers should consider yourselves fortunate that our laws DO NOT implement my religious beliefs.

kenny | 9:57 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

The church seems to have taken a new direction in speaking out on issues that affect all the citizens of the state of Utah.Like it or not, the church does have influence over its members who are elected officials and those that govern will probably shape their opinions around those influences.Anything other than that would ignore human nature for that is the nature of men.

Jeffrey | 9:55 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Once again, the LDS Church - of which I am a member - gives reason as to why churches do not deserve to be tax-free.

If they are going to be partisan, get involved in social matters, and become entangled in the political process that is all well and good, but then they should be paying taxes like any other corporation would.

If the Church is really just its members, then let the members do the voting and campaigning, and let the Church focus on the things "not of this world."

Johny Fairplay | 9:57 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Financial meltdown, energy crisis, presidential election, wars, 40+ million Americans with no health insurance, environmental degradation, unemployment now above 6%. Stay distracted suckers.

MK OK | 9:58 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Read the article. The Church is not trying to outlaw alcohol. By putting any statement on moral issues, the Church is simply stating where it stands. Do you see any punishment affixed for non-compliant LDS lawmakers? No, there are none. After all, Harry Reid is still a member.
I live in Oklahoma, where Baptists rule the government and I do not whine and complain about how they do things. I live my life and do not worry about any political statements on the marquees of the Baptist (or Penecostal or any other religion) churches. The Catholic Church frequently puts out statements and in states where they are a majority of Catholics, it would be the same thing as what the LDS Church is doing.
What the anti-Mormons fail to realize is that the same dialogue that they are using will lead to all out anti-religionism in the near future. Maybe some of them are already completely anti-religion. And that is a scary thing, not because everyone needs to be religious but because soon all religion will be seen as bad and atheism will be the de facto religion of the country. And then atheists' beliefs will be forced on everyone.

Know your history | 9:58 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Dear New Resident to Utah, Its not the alcohol laws that caused the meth problem. Its people. Talk to the drug task force in Utah County. The people that traffic meth in Utah came from Arizona with a one way bus ticket purchased by the law enforcement there. Any problem doesn't begin with the substance it begins with people. We keep on repeating history by continuing to do the same old thing, changing to suit people. This country not just the state was founded on Christian principles. It is slowly but surely falling because people keep telling God to stay out of it!

kenny | 10:01 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

to all you people who dont like the church running the show:join the church and be like one of us or find another place to live other than Utah.Utah is Mormonville.Get a grip.

funny | 10:04 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Something related to the issue at hand. Itï¿½s funny (pun intended) that, besides their sponsorship ads, I have yet to see a Budweiser (or any other beer company for that matter) TV commercial/ad that advertizes a benefit or value of their product. Instead they only use dry humor and, with subtlety, stupidity. Why? Theyï¿½re about the only messages that they can associate with alcohol. Ironically, I wish it was still funny ï¿½after the funï¿½ especially when someone is dead as a result of an accident caused by a drunk driver. Shouldnï¿½t this be part of so-called ï¿½truth in advertizingï¿½ laws?

Anonymous | 10:03 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

what is everyone whining about, I thought the issue here was eliminating the private club fees and such so drinking is more available.

Callie | 10:13 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

"Beliefs don't matter", YES THEY DO.

re Linus | 9:53 a.m. | 10:15 a.m. Sept. 17, 2008

The hazards of allowing dogs in a community are well documented, the hazards of not looking both ways before crossing the street are well documented.

Why doesn't the church speak on these and other hazadarous issues?

Why alcohol?

Yes liquor laws can be beneficial.

Doesn't the church believe the citizens can pass responsible liquor on their own? Why single out alcohol? If safety is the concern, why not other saftey issues? If religion is the motivation the church should refrain. Religious people in power should refrain. The golden rule remember?

Religious tenants should not be put into law unless they have a corresponding public good.

Lets pass liquor laws based on the successes of other states, to discourage bad behavior. If private clubs acutally do work, great lets have them, but if not, lets not keep them for purely religious reasons.

Let Utah law be based upon values we can all agree on, safety, responsibility and freedom to enjoy life.

Given that the LDS church once successfully encouraged the Utah legislature to pass laws that don't allow sunday shopping. Perhaps the LDS church is not the trusted party to avoid religious motivations in this case.

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