Deseret News | Chaffetz, California Demo butt heads

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Chaffetz, California Demo butt heads

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Anonymous | 9:17 a.m. Sept. 6, 2008

We're all in trouble if Chaffetz is elected, I'm afraid to have him represent Utah. Look how quickly he was forced out of the Governor's office and it all was so hush, hush. I'm very surprised that "Ken"(of Barbie and Ken) Huntsman endorsed him...I guess anything for the party?

Ling Ling | 9:21 a.m. Sept. 6, 2008

Bennion Spencer clearly wants us to look the other way when illegal immigrants commit crimes. I'm appalled that so many of you support that position.

Should we enforce our laws or not? We have let 280,000 criminals escape incarceration *because* they are illegal immigrants. Those people would be in jail right now for their crimes if they were citizens of the United States. Chaffetz wants to enforce the law uniformly against anyone who breaks it. Spencer wants to let Latinos off the hook while prosecuting Americans for the same crimes. Who is the racist?

Spencer does not support enforcing our laws. I CANNOT vote for someone who does not believe in the rule of law.

arc | 9:22 a.m. Sept. 6, 2008

Mr. Honda, Your comments about Jason Chaffetz are unfair, distorted, and make it look like you are being played by Bennion Spencer. You agree with Jason on two major items on immigration.

You agree that we need to fix legal immigration.

Jason: "There are millions of people from around the world who seek to legally become a citizen of the United States of America. Unfortunately, the system is failing. Last year the Wall Street Journal stated the current green-card backlog includes applicants who face a 22-year wait time. This doesnï¿½t work for anybody. We need to implement the leadership necessary to fix this problem and appropriate the money needed to thoroughly process applicants in a timely manner. Until legal immigration works, we will continue to have major problems."

You agree that the idea of having a second class group - doing the jobs that we won't do - is wrong.

Jason is advocating enforcement of the law.
He has never suggested targeting people based on race

You may differ on what to do with those already here, but no one wants those that have been waiting for years to be passed up by those that come without permission.

Comments continue below

Mike Richards | 9:22 a.m. Sept. 6, 2008

Why do the Democrats what to give citizen status to illegal immigrants? A citizen has responsibility to live by the laws that govern this land. An illegal immigrant has shown by the very fact that he is inside our country that he has no respect for our laws.

For Mr. Honda to equate detaining illegal immigrants to his own detention as an American citizen during WWII shows that he will say or do anything to get a Democrat elected. Mr. Honda knows exactly what Mr. Chaffetz has proposed, but he has twisted Mr. Chaffetz's position to meet his own agenda. If that is how the Democrat Party is going to campaign, then they will win no votes in Utah. I have personally opposed Mr. Chaffetz from the beginning of his campaign, but if Mr. Bennion Spencer is involved in this matter in any way, I will use every means available to show that Mr. Spencer's position disqualifies him from representing Utah.

Dist 3 GOP | 9:29 a.m. Sept. 6, 2008

We gave up Cannon for Chaffetz for stuff like this? Boy, what an interesting two years the media will have if Chaffetz wins. He'll end up being on the Equirer.

Save us Bennion Spencer!

Independent Utahn | 9:33 a.m. Sept. 6, 2008

See what Chaffetz can do his first term as a freshman Congressman in the minority party...NOTHING! You won't hear any news from Chaffetz for two years unless something like this blows up in his face.

As least Spencer has a better shot to do something for the 3rd District with the majority party in Congress. Matheson as a D has done our state proud.

Cannon at least had seniority can could do some things.

Parkite | 9:35 a.m. Sept. 6, 2008

One look at the Park City Police Sites Most Wanted list says it all about illegal immigration.

Comparing internment camps of the 1940s to detaining illegal aliens for deportation is more than apples and oranges... it's irresponsible.

Jason will be elected by a landslide!

DR Don | 9:47 a.m. Sept. 6, 2008

Honda's rant is just another example of Democrats welcoming criminals with open arms.

evensteven | 9:48 a.m. Sept. 6, 2008

Everyone seems to be up in arms about putting barbed wire around a corrections facility or creating a tent city for these (hopefully) temporarily housed criminals. Remember, the WGA proposal is to inter illegal aliens convicted of crimes. I don't see the problem. Following the Maricopa AZ model seems perfectly appropriate.

Stewart | 10:03 a.m. Sept. 6, 2008

"Americans should know that 'immigrant' is not a dirty word," said Honda. Yes Mr. Honda and Chaffetz has always spoken well of "immigrants" and in fact wants to improve the immigration process. It seems that Honda and Spencer Bennion don't know the difference between immigrant and illegal immigrant. I suppose the difference is the same as between a shopper and a shoplifter. I wonder if they know the difference between these words?

From some of the comments above, it looks like Spencer Bennion supporters are trolling the newspapers looking for Chaffetz articles and a chance to make uniformed comments. I say go for it, because you only inflame the very large majority of voters in the 3rd Congressional District that oppose illegal immigration reminding them of their reasons for getting out to vote for Chaffetz.

Don't be surprised if Spencer Bennion actually comes in number three behind Jim Noorlander in the general election.

Capt. Sharkey | 10:14 a.m. Sept. 6, 2008

What Jason Chaffetz is saying about tent cities has NOTHING TO DO with what the Guvs Association is saying. Stop comparing the two. Do you really think that the Western Governors Association would say something so incredibly racist and inflammatory as rounding up illegal aliens for barbed-ringed tent cities?

Jason Chaffetz is on his own on this one.

Kristine Myers | 10:17 a.m. Sept. 6, 2008

After reading this article, Bennion's opinion of Jesus's vote makes a lot more sense to me.

I do not believe that all illegal immigrants are 'criminals'. A pathway to citizenship is the right thing to do.

Cats | 10:23 a.m. Sept. 6, 2008

To compare the internment of the Japanese to detaining illegal aliens is absurd.

The Japanese were American citizens who had committed no crimes. Illegal aliens are not American citizens and have committed a crime just by being here. In addition, at least 75% have committed additional crimes such as identity theft and other kinds of fraud. (that's a true statistic)

This is nothing more than election-year partisanship by Honda in an attempt to help his fellow Democrat get elected in Utah.

PLEASE VOTERS, DON'T BE FOOLED!!!

Great Scott! | 10:55 a.m. Sept. 6, 2008

It's a good sign for Jason that even Congressmen from California know who he is. It's too bad that Mr. Honda doesn't know what Jason represents, because if he did, he wouldn't have made any correlation between the deplorable actions of the US government in detaining US citizens of Japanese heritage and confining ILLEGAL ALIENS who have committed crimes and released from jails because of over crowding failed to follow their deportation orders.

That's quite a different story when you see Jason's position for what it really is versus what other liberal individuals are trying to paint it to suit their politics. Two thumbs up to Jason for running his campaign so well that he's known in California. Two thumbs up to Rep. Honda for being concerned about the state of immigration in this country. Two thumbs down to the liberal, left wing media and the lemmings in this country who only drink the koolaid that ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CNN and other conventional news sources give to them with no attempt to use their own brain to put two and two together and see that everything the media feeds us just doesn't add up to four.

avi8r | 10:59 a.m. Sept. 6, 2008

Illegal immigration costs billions of dollars out of the pockets of tax payers who are US Citizens. They come here for free education for their children. In California in 2004, taxpayers spent $7.7 billion educating children of illegal immigrants. This figure does not include the cost of building new schools to handle the overflow, special English instruction, school lunch programs, or welfare benefits for American workers displaced by illegal immigrant workers. Hospitals are shutting down in border states because they can no longer afford to pay free healthcare for illegals who come to the emergency rooms for medical attention. 29% of California's prison population is comprised of illegal immigrants, another drain on our financial resources. Liberals who believe that this trend can continue without negative consequences to the rest of us either fail to understand the magnitude of this problem, or don't care what happens to our nation. Jason is concerned about this problem and is offering solutions to help fix it. A guestworker/amnesty program is just politics as usual and is no solution to these very real problems facing our nation.

H | 11:02 a.m. Sept. 6, 2008

Don't restrict illegal immigrants, give them free medical care in preference to US citizens and let them go the front of the line ahead of those who are waiting to enter the US legally. It's the "American" way.

Yikes | 11:05 a.m. Sept. 6, 2008

...And I thought Cannon was bad. Utah County really knows how to pick 'em. I don't vote in your district , but this Chaffetz sounds like a nut who incorporates every inflammatory and divisive stand to whip up the worst in people. Why would you let him continue?

Anonymous | 11:45 a.m. Sept. 6, 2008

arc your facts are wrong

It starts... | 12:09 p.m. Sept. 6, 2008

Chaffetz hasn't even been elected yet, and he's already engaged in partisan politics, finger-pointing, and battling with the Democrats. Perhaps Jason has forgotten that he will soon (if elected) have to deal with Rep. Honda and many more like him in the Democratic-controlled Congress. It doesn't look like he's off to a great start to "win friends and influence people."

If Chaffetz wants to get his agenda through Congress, he's going to have to convince the Democrats through reason and logic to vote his way. They are less likely to do that if is demanding apologies from them.

All this bickering is not going to get us an immigration bill at the end of the day. Is it too much to ask of our public figures to sit down and reasonably negotiate about how to fix our nation's problems?

To Arc: | 12:31 p.m. Sept. 6, 2008

How much is Chaffetz paying you? Every time I read a comment from you it is blasting his opponent?

Conservative mom | 1:29 p.m. Sept. 6, 2008

Actually, Capt Sharkey, it has EVERYTHING to do with what the Western Governor's Association is asking for - more detention facilities for convicted felons, here illegally. I'm wondering if some of you BS supporters either can't read or can't hear? No one ever advocated rounding up all illegal immigrants. Get real!! Tent cities ala Maricopa county, for housing FELONS on their way out of the country. Nice try at spin, but thankfully most voters are way smarter than that.

arc | 1:56 p.m. Sept. 6, 2008

Chaffetz isn't paying me anything. I comment on several subjects. I guess you just don't read those.

You have to remember this is coming from Bennion Spencer who put his foot in his mouth about Jesus not for tax breaks or for democrats. So how does Bennion Spencer respond, distort Jason's views on how to fix immigration, and get one of the more liberal, but respected democrats to help.

Jason should be an apology from Rep. Honda since both agree that Legal Immigration needs to be fixed.

For Anonymous, if my facts are facts, they aren't wrong. You may not agree with me, or Jason, but most Americans do NOT want those coming here to this country without permission to become citizens before those that come or try to come legally.

To arc: | 2:29 p.m. Sept. 6, 2008

Jason distorts his own views. He has been COMPLETELY inconsistent on this subject. I've been to mtgs where he's said that he wants to put people on a "pathway to deportation" - ALL illegals. Problem is, most people don't agree with this. He isn't just talking about those that have committed felonious crimes but ALL of them. Someone please tell me how this is going to work?

If elected, he'll be a very marginal Member of Congress and won't get ANYTHING done for the state. He'll be a vote - that's it, nothing more.

Re: Conservative mom | 2:57 p.m. Sept. 6, 2008

Speak for yourself when you say "no one ever advocated rounding up all illegal immigrants".

I to am a conservative mom... each day I have to contend with illegal immigrant gangs and illegal aliens gathering to sell drugs on the same corner that my children use each morning to wait for the bus.

YOUR FENCE SITTING MISGUIDED "COMPASSION" IS WHAT'S WRONG WITH OUR SOCIETY AND OUR GOVERNMENT. WHAT... ARE YOU AFRAID OF LOOSING YOUR ILLEGAL ALIEN CLEANING LADY?

I ADVOCATE ROUNDING UP EVERY PERSON THAT HAS BROKEN U.S. LAW AND DEPORTING THEM!

Madden | 3:06 p.m. Sept. 6, 2008

I am astounded at how many people comment based on headlines rather than actual positions.

The Chaffetz position on illegal immigration is based on trying to actually GET SOMETHING DONE...those bashing him are using the race card, hateful speech and out of context quotes. If they have their way, this problem will get much worse.

arc | 3:34 p.m. Sept. 6, 2008

I am not impressed with Bennion Spencer. He starts by saying that Jesus would be a democrat and then he twists Jason's comments, gets Mike Honda involved, and tries to make Jason look bad for wanting to solve legal immigration.

Has Bennion Spencer been getting advice from Super Dell?

arc | 3:37 p.m. Sept. 6, 2008

From Jason for Congress website:

Fix Legal Immigration
Reject Amnesty
Lock Down The Border, Enforce Visas
Have The Political Will To Enforce The Current Laws
Get Rid Of Rewards & Incentives To Be Here Illegally
Give Business The Tools & Align Financial Incentives
Insist On Assimilation (Require English)

Why is this bad?

arc | 4:04 p.m. Sept. 6, 2008

Jason has called for a federal detention facility in the west to house federal prisoners. Only those convicted of a crime would be housed in this facility. He concurs with the Western Governorï¿½s Association, which passed a resolution calling for the federal government to build a facility to house its own prisoners. Federal prisoners who are not violent criminals are often released because there is no prison space to hold them. The detention facility would house those who are convicted of federal crimes ï¿½ whether or not these people are illegal aliens. Jason has also suggested that tent facilities similar to those in Arizona are good enough for our soldiers in Iraq and should be good enough for our federal prisoners here at home.

Anonymous | 4:22 p.m. Sept. 6, 2008

I don't think it is nice to call either of these people buttheads. What a horribe title for an article!

JMT | 4:37 p.m. Sept. 6, 2008

Amazing how many times the moderator allows ARC to comment. ARC is on the payroll. Paid for propaganda.

And once again, ARC and others stick to their lie without even addressing the truth here.

Racism aside the issue gets down to what did Chaffetz say. ARC and the Mom of many both claim that Chaffetz only wants to put rapists and drug dealers in concentration camps.

PLEASE, for the first time in the past year ARC be honest. The third post in this series from JYNX is another example of hundreds of Chaffetz supporters who tell the same story: They talked to Chaffetz one on one and he wants to create tents in the desert for ALL illegal aliens.

Who cares what Chaffetz said at the convention for the cameras. What I care about is what he tells people one-on-one, and that is very different! He lies for votes.

If they want a Congressman who will put concentration camps in the desert, vote Chaffetz.

If you want a Congressman who will give amnesty visas to all 20 million illegal aliens, vote Chaffetz.

I'm sick of Chaffetz and his lies.

I guess I'm a DEAD DOG REPUBLICAN as well.

Vote Spencer!

Kraig | 7:24 p.m. Sept. 6, 2008

Chaffetz has the best sollution to imigration there is. If we open enough visa's to match the demand for workers we will only have illeagals here who want to commit crimes and they will be easy to take care of.

Mr Smith | 8:01 p.m. Sept. 6, 2008

Once again arc is spinning lies to support her boy Jason. Get it straight, there is no defending his words. He is not calling for 'enforcing the law' he is calling for blatant racial profiling. At the end of the day there is two schools of thought. Those of you who hate immigrants and hide behind the 'they're-breaking-the-law-ship-em-out' garbage and those of us who are reasonable and support a pathway to citizenship. Jason is a disgrace to hard working, good Utah people.

Borz | 8:58 p.m. Sept. 6, 2008

So now we have another group of Chaffetz supports who believe that Chaffetz supports giving visas to everyone here illegally, but the criminal types.

So yet another Chaffetz supporter with yet another version of what Chaffetz told them.

Chaffetz is about as good as Bill Clinton. You can tell when he is lying. His lips are moving.

arc | 9:55 p.m. Sept. 6, 2008

Borz,
Jason has been consistant. You have to realize that for him to get 60% of the votes against a 12 year sitting US Rep, he had to have supporters from all walks of life. That includes some moderates, concervatives and in between. I have tried real hard to be accurate as to what Jason has said. I have quoted his website, or press releases.

Jason is not for bringing race into this. The only ones doing that are the democrat challager, and also Rep. Honda who it looks like he draged in. The last one to cry fowl is Tony Yapias, who tries to offend at least someone every day.

I'm Sick of Politics | 10:07 p.m. Sept. 6, 2008

Having heard Jason speak on issues, he is a reasonable person who is also firm. Rep Honda is trying to make a typical 'political' scene and misrepresent an issue for his party's advantage. Can we ever be strong on issues without the other party trying to characterize it as extremeism? And people wonder why we hate and don't respect polititions.

Liberal left | 10:13 p.m. Sept. 6, 2008

Just wanted to add - who authorized the internment camps? It was a DEMOCRAT. talk about trying to just sell papers regardless of facts. . . .

Bennion and Honda Wrong! | 10:50 p.m. Sept. 6, 2008

Everyday our military men and women spend a year or more in Iraq and Afganistan surrounded by brab wires and guards and no one (epecially Bennion or Honda) think that is wrong! Honda must think it's OK for the men and women that defend our country, but it's too cruel for illegals in this country!

There is a HUGE difference between what happened to the Japanese-Americans and what Chaffetz proposed. In the first, it was done to American citizens and not only were they deneyed their rights as citizens, but their property was seized and sold or stolen with no recourse. In the second, no rights are being denied, nor land seized and sold without due process of law. These people ARE law breakers! They have no regard for the laws of our country.

Bennion Spencer and Honda need to wake up and stop misrepresenting what Mr. Chaffetz is talking about. I find Mr. Chaffetz comments on the issue right on, and the fact that Chaffetz beat Cannon on this issue shows that Honda and Spencer are wrong about what Americans, and Utahns want on this issue.

Chaffetz perfect for district | 5:28 a.m. Sept. 7, 2008

Utah County is way outside the American mainstream on most issues: John McCain wrote the immigration reform "amnesty" bill that Chaffetz hates so much. In the Senate, John McCain blocked the anti-gay Federal Marriage Amendment calling it "un-American and un=Republican."

Chaffetz anti-immigrant anti-Hispanic politics are a perfect representation of 3rd district Utah County values. Good thing no one will give Chaffetz the time of day once he's in Congress, in the minority, with no seniority.

arc | 7:54 a.m. Sept. 7, 2008

The point by Rep. Honda, and Yappy, and BS, is that they call everyone that doesn't agree with them raciest. That is wrong.

What I don't want is someone that comes without permission getting in line before someone that is trying to come legally.

I don't want English to stop being the official language of the US.

Is that wrong?

Anonymous | 8:26 a.m. Sept. 7, 2008

It was Governor Huntsman and the Salt Lake Chamber of Commerce that fought immediate enforcement of Utah's law this session that is at the core of this. They should of allowed it to take effect.

That and the media that like to rationalize lawbreaking as an ethnic cause. As mentioned before, the tent cities were to hold felons on their way out of the country. They were not meant for long term interment.

Mr. Honda, has Japan ever compensated those with US ancestor y that were jailed in Japan, or the Chinese women who were used as prostitutes for the Japanese army. Both instances are well documented.

This is not a party issue. This is Mr. Honda's view. There are many democrats that believe in enforcing the law and protecting the rights of the American worker.

History Student | 12:38 p.m. Sept. 7, 2008

Of the some 110,000 persons of Japanese ancestry who were evacuated, approx 60% of the ADULTS were Japanese nationals, enemy aliens subject to detention in wartime under long-standing law dating back to 1798 and still on the books today.

Most of the U.S. citizens among the evacuees were minor children. And well over half of those over age 17 were dual citizens (Japanese and American). Of the entire 110,000 evacuated, only some 28,000 were U.S. citizens over the age of 21.

Where are you learning all of the evacuees were American citizens? They were Japanese living in America with American born kids.

History Student | 12:49 p.m. Sept. 7, 2008

As for "committing no crimes", before Pearl Harbor, U.S. codebreakers were intercepting Japanese consular messages which revealed espionage involving resident Japanee nationals and Japanese Americans. Numerous Japanese patriotic societies on the west coast were supporting the Japanese war effort in East Asia by collecting money and sending it to Japan.

Because of such activities by persons of Japanese ancestry in this country, when the Japanese struck Pearl Harbor there were urgent security reasons for separating the loyal from the disloyal pesons of Japanese descent.

This could not be done overnight so evacuation and relocation of such persons from military zones on the west coast was considered a necessity until screening could determine their status...

People today tend to forget the west coast was designated a military combat zone and in such circumstances the military calls the shots. They could have evacuated everybody if they had felt the need to.

It's not the same as civilian peacetime society and civil liberties can be curtailed. Sometimes civil responsibilites have to outweigh civil liberties and our polititical and military leaders had a civil responsibility to win the war.

GOP repeat stupidity | 7:15 p.m. Sept. 7, 2008

Something needs to be done about the problem of illegal immigration, but locking up or deporting 13 million people who are already here is not going to happen. Anyone who tells you they will "lock'em up and ship'em out" is lying to you. Especially if they are supposedly pro-business like Chaffetz. The only way to limit immigration is to make it unprofitable by strictly enforcing a $12/hour minimum wage. But Chaffetz is opposed to raising the minimum wage.

I guess scaring ignorant white people in Utah County is pretty easy, like getting kids to eat cake. Chaffetz is being dishonest and ridiculous in his anti-immigrant rhetoric. The minute Chaffetz gets to Washington, people like the Marriotts will give him a million dollars so they can keep their Hispanic hotel maids and gardeners. Chaffetz is all talk, hate, and division: I find him disgusting.

Student of history? | 7:51 p.m. Sept. 7, 2008

Nice numbers.

My grandparents were two of those statistics. Grandpa was born in Long Beach, California. Grandma born in Honolulu, Hawaii. She moved to California as a teenager, met grandpa, got married.

On December 6, 1941, Grandma and Grandpa, both US Citizens, had a home, two children, a car, a several small service (gas) stations. Within a few short months they lost everything. They were rounded up like criminals. First night was spent at a race track, where they slept in a horse stall. They were "lucky" as most slept out in the grass in the middle of the track. They ended up in Colorado.

In 1943 I believe it was they were released with the condition that they could not return to California. They left with three kids, 5 suitcases and $5 per person, or $25 plus bus tickets anywhere but west-coast. They were never compensated for the loss of anything else.

Go ahead and set up your racist Chaffetz Concentration camps. Me and my family will simply show up with chain cutters. I have no problem deporting but no need to be facist pigs about it, don't you think?

Maybe you should do some research on facism.

arc | 10:40 p.m. Sept. 7, 2008

wikipedia said that 62% of those in places such as Topaz were US Citizens. There are two references to back up that stat.

My father, who was in WWII, serving in Europe, never defended the camps such as Topaz. I grew up thinking it was a bad move by our government, and still do.

Do I think Mr. Honda has distorted things, yes. Do I think you are as well...yes.

The point Mr. Honda made was that using tents to temp. house felons was racist. I totally disagree with that. Jason is not racist. That is a term people use these days for those that disagree with them. It should not be.

Perhaps Mr. Honda didn't agree with the dropping of the two bombs in Japan ending WWII. While I don't like the lost of life, I agree it saved more lives than lost.

My father, who had already received a purple heart and 4 bronze stars, was then going to be shipped to the Pacific to fight over there as well. My father taught me not to be racist. He didn't hate.

Legal immigration should not be about race.

Honda Responds | 10:49 p.m. Sept. 7, 2008

"The only apology that should be made is by Mr. Chaffetz to the American public for injecting extremism into a sensitive and serious debate on immigration," Honda said in a reply I received last night. "It is naive at best and disingenuous at worst for Mr. Chaffetz to claim that his proposal to imprison undocumented immigrants behind barbed wire would not incite resentment against ethnic minorities or lead to racial profiling."

"While Mr. Chaffetz's claims he does not single out any particular racial group, one needs only to follow the current national immigration debate to know that it is primarily targeted against people with brown skin," Honda said.

He points to Chaffetz's web site, where he said the Republican candidate focuses primarily on people with brown skin, specifically citing only statistics about immigration from Latin America and disparaging the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund.

"In our times, we need leaders who sensibly move our country and the public immigration debate beyond extremist positions that can foster racial fear and animosity," Honda said.

Thank you Mr Honda!!

Yapias Responds | 10:53 p.m. Sept. 7, 2008

The criticism yesterday from Rep. Mike Honda over Jason Chaffetz's immigration policy drew a reaction this weekend from Utah Latino advocate Tony Yapias.

Yapias, the director of Proyecto Latino de Utah, said Chaffetz's plan to detain illegal immigrants in tent-style prison camps is meant to please the right-wing Eagle Forum but doesn't do anything to solve the problem. Yapias said that most Latinos in Utah share the values of the Republican Party, but Chaffetz's extreme views mean that they will vote for a Democrat in November.

Yapias applauded Honda's criticism and called Chaffetz's remarks "racist, offensive and un-Christlike."

That's where Chaffetz parts with the governors whose policy position he says he is echoing.

But he takes takes it much farther. His proposal argues all undocumented immigrants, numbering in the neighborhood of 12 million people, must return to their countries of origin. Those who don't return voluntarily will be apprehended and detained in the tent cities until they can be deported.

To put that into context, the total federal prison population, as of Thursday, was 201,454. The annual budget for the Federal Bureau of Prisons is about $5.4 billion.

-- Robert Gehrke

To arc | 11:43 p.m. Sept. 7, 2008

It's true arc, you try SO HARD to defend Jason that you cannot be taken seriously. You must be on the payroll. I'd respect you more, or at all, if you'd quit lying, yes lying, about Jason's position and just admit his position is completely foolish and embarrassing.

His position on immigration is NOT what the Western Governors advocate, yet you insist on blogging that it is. YOU are the one twisting words and we see right through it.

Arc is on payroll | 6:22 a.m. Sept. 8, 2008

We see what Arc is.

I was thinking about this over the weekend because Arc is so frustrating. He lacks anything of common sense. He is like Bill Clinton in that he challenges the very notion that the sun shines at noon day. Arc will basically take a statement, so twist it and turn it that at the end of the day the other person is all but accused of being on the grassy knoll. On other websites which allow more free speech Arc is referred to in very unflattering terms.

I think it is simply bait and switch. While we are busy beating up on Arc the real culprit gets by, Jason Chaffetz.

This is simple. Chaffetz and his many supporters claim he never said what he is accused of saying. He blaims it on lies, Democrats, world government types, everyone but himself.

Then on this very list we have Chaffetz supporters who tell us that Chaffetz said exactly what he denies saying. So add to the list of bad people, the liars, Democrats, world government types AND Chaffetz supporters.

Bottom line is Chaffetz wants to round up 13 million illegal Hispanics and put them in concentration camps. Period.

arc | 8:26 a.m. Sept. 8, 2008

Jason doesn't have a payroll. Look at the financial reports. Jason has never paid me a cent (or dollar).

I never said Jason was perfect. He is a lot better than the other choices we have been given.

He has never said he wants to put 12 to 20 million in concentration camps.

He has said we need to fix legal immigration so it doesn't take so long.

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