Deseret News | Gas saver? Bluffdale man says invention increases mileage, aids engine performance

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Gas saver? Bluffdale man says invention increases mileage, aids engine performance

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RE: No Free Electricity | 8:53 p.m. Sept. 1, 2008

What if you turned off your radio and turned on the cell that produces hydrogen? There shouldn't be a problem unless you exceed the amount of amps the alternator can produce.

Don't ask | 10:03 p.m. Sept. 1, 2008

A "smart" chemical engineer how to transform potential energy into kinetic energy.

My Dad, too | 11:36 p.m. Sept. 1, 2008

My Dad also has been obsessively working with this technology for the entire summer and wrote us a jubilant email today, saying "my 05 Honda yielded 52.65 Miles per Gallon from Salt Lake to St. George today(310 miles) doing 65 mpg. I used 5.887 gallons total on the trip . . . " Something's working, and here's to the enthusiasts and amateurs in the home garages who are pushing technology forward, while naysayers and critics sit around waiting for someone to do something about it.

Comments continue below

hmm | 11:55 p.m. Sept. 1, 2008

Even running the AC on continually on a 100+ day I have not seen MPG drop. AC uses more electricity than almost anything else in your car. I really don't think the amount of electricity pulled by this device would be any problem.

Doyle | 1:22 a.m. Sept. 2, 2008

Seems like if there was a additive, hydrogen or otherwise, that would "improve" gas milage, there got to be a more efficient and cheaper way to produce it than using your car's electical system.

Buy hydrogen from a commercial source - its got to be cheaper than having the car produce it.

If reducing the heat lost due to the inefficiency of the engin is your goal, seems like you are talking about a whole nother contraption.

Think | 8:53 a.m. Sept. 2, 2008

People said at Edison could not invent the electric light. All you who say it can't be done should try it. My own experiments say that it works. I was going to putchase the $49.00 plans and maybe I still should. But I watched lots to YouTube videos and said I can do this myself. I spent about $100.00 at Home Depot. Better milage from a 1990 Dodge Shadow 2.2 liter. I used to get about 240 miles from 12 gallons. Now I get about 300. This car only drives around town. If auto makers were smart they would be working on this. The biggest problem is that it takes a lot of maintenance. You have to watch it and keep the right mix of water and electrolyte in it.

ubdumb | 12:45 p.m. Sept. 2, 2008

I can't believe all the dumb nuts infering that this is somehow perpetual motion and therefore it cannot be done. Is the hydroelectric generation of electricity from a dam perpetual motion? Or solar power? Yep, can't be done, that would be perpetual motion!

Think about it like this, if you go pick up dead wood in the forest and burn it, doesn't it release energy? Using electricity to generate the hydrogen didn't CREATE the hydrogen, just put it in a form that the engine can use, like picking up some wood in the forest for firewood. It takes less energy to get it than you can get from burining it. When the burning is done, no one said that you can open the door on the wood burning stove and take the wood back out. And no one said that you condense water vapor from the exhaust and use it to generate more hydrogen in a perpetual motion machine did they? Some of you are just too ignorant to think about it.

Nay Sayers Depart | 1:13 p.m. Sept. 2, 2008

I just drove my Honda Civic from SLC to St. George on 5.887 gallons of gasoline, a total of 310 Miles at 65 MPH. You do the math...I did and it figured 52.65 MPG. The EPA for this 05 Honda Civic reads 36 Hiway..Now that is over a 30% savings on gas!!!!!! I have done it before and will do it again.

Yes, HHO(Hydrogen on demand) works. I use 2 Ball jar generators with 316 grade stainless steel fender washers and Sodium Hydroxide (Lye) as an electrolyzer. My computer is controlled by a Map Sensor Enhancer and one little $5 Oxyisolator for the fuel air sensor. Then, there are a number of other things I did also..So, if you want to read about it, type www://tinyurl.com/5d9op4 into your URL and the story is there. I will also be happy to try to answer realonable e mails if I can. Go for it. For the rest of you...do it or quit talking about it in negative terms. This is an established science and has been for many years.

What is so hard about this? | 1:39 p.m. Sept. 2, 2008

It is a known science. I have an ordinary Japaneese 4 cyl car with a computer in it. I did the science from Water4gas.com, added some refinements that others use and I consistently get 30% better mileage. I will better that soon. Persistent effort was required and everything has to work right and I am there. I can drive from Cedar City to Salt Lake and back, and have gas left in my 13 gallon tank when I get back.
I get over 50 Miles Per gallon so don't tell me that it can't be done. You only make yourselves look and sound STUPID to those who make it happen.

Alternator stuff... | 1:53 p.m. Sept. 2, 2008

My HHO system utilizes about 10 to 15 Amps to produce the electrolysis for my hydrogen generators I made for my Honda. I set it up for that and I am not a certified, etc. mechanic. All I know is that the alternator on the Honda does a fine job of producing the energy I need to produce the hydrogen for big mileage savings. I hope this thing does not get too big, the government will step in and shut it all down conforming to the auto and fuel industry lobbyists demands. Let it happen folks. don't slam something that I have made work so well for me and give it a bad name. It is really fun to be on the cutting edge of something like this. Leave us alone you nay sayers, we are having too much fun saving money and fuel. I have the proof. I am doing it so don't smack talk me please.

Ronnie Bray | 2:55 p.m. Sept. 2, 2008

Enough of these contraptions. I just use half gasoline and half tapwater. It has reduced my top speed from 145 mph to 110 mph, but that's nough fopr most side streets. It has boosted my MPG from 18 on good days and flat roads, to 47 MPG come-what-may.

Just you try it. If it works for you, then my name is Ronnie Bray.

If it doesn't work for you, or if it calamascopes your vehicle, then my name is John McCain.

Metallurgical Engineer | 3:18 p.m. Sept. 2, 2008

When I first read the claims on one of the HHO sites it seemed like a scam to me. Sounded too good to be true. After several hours of surveying websites I was surprised that I had found a few postings from relatively unbiased people, like a local news station in Florida, who had found that the technology had improved their mileage somewhat after converting a news van. Of the few credible accounts of mileage tests that I found, none of them approached the outrageous claims that the websites make, but there seemed to be a 5-10% increase. Some suggest that user claims of more savings are due to their conscientious driving after installing their modification.

I, for one, would love to cut my gasoline bill by 5-10%, but what is the trade off? The consensus is that these modifications require a lot of tinkering and upkeep. People often build them themselves, using an old car, taking several weeks and then obsess over them from then on. Government studies have shown that driving styles (aggressive vs. patient) can affect mileage by 30%. I have a hard time keeping my tire's pressure at optimum (3.3% savings), I'll pass on HHO.

Metallurgical Engineer | 3:33 p.m. Sept. 2, 2008

As there is a lot of bad science on this comment board, let me put my two cents in. First, though most comment board proponents don't understand the energy argument, they are correct when they say it isn't about perpetual motion. The actual claim, by the few who understand, is that the addition of hydrogen gas helps the hydrocarbons in the gasoline burn more fully, more cleanly and more completely. Thus a more efficient use of the gasoline more than offsets the energy used to separate the water.

Whether this is true or not, I don't know, but the few independent tests seem to suggest that there might be something to this.

The comment in the story by AAA that these devises might be harmful is a reference to some research that adding hydrogen gas to the combustion zone may cause damage to the engine by hydrogen embrittlement. As a metallurgical engineer I can attest that this is a real phenomenon, though I don't know enough to say whether it would occur in these circumstances. Anyone who has experienced a cracked head or block can tell you that it isn't fun.

Metallurgical Engineer | 3:42 p.m. Sept. 2, 2008

...finally...

In defense of the writer, Jared Peterson can be considered the inventor of the HydroCapacitor, not the technology behind it.

My bottomline advise is that if you have an old car that you don't mind breaking, some spare time on your hands, and quite a bit of mechanical aptitude, you might find this an interesting technology to play with. If you want to save on gas, keep you tires inflated and press gently on the gas pedal.

I have tested .... | 5:22 p.m. Sept. 2, 2008

Mileage increases that I have experienced are as follows:

Following the gas savings and driving tips found in a well researched book account for about 10% of the
30% total I am presently getting. Air conditioning only uses about 2% of that 30%. I have tested that also. The rest, about 18% is accounted for in the HHO I am producing. Hydrogen cells will account for the big savings in the fututre, maybe 7-8 yeatrs for the public..in the meantime I will do with what I have...service the installation about every 1000 miles by adding a little distilled water and perhaps a pinch of electtolyzer, that is as easy as feeding a goldfish. Cheers.

Jack Hallstrom | 7:03 p.m. Sept. 2, 2008

I'm glad to see you improving on a system that has been around for sometime. I would like to know more about the system before so I can make a decission on to buy or not what I see looks very good compared to the many that are out there. I'm also interested in how you by pass the car's computer. I have seen several and I only wish to do what I need but legally. Keep up the good work (jewelhallstrom@msn.com

Proof in the pudding | 1:18 p.m. Sept. 3, 2008

IF it works why not embrace it? Einstein was considered to be a fool. If people can prove it works then the proof is in the pudding.

Big oile buster | 1:34 p.m. Sept. 3, 2008

Trust me - big oil is not interested in seeing any technology such as this gain popularity until they have sold the last barrel of oil they have.

I drive a natural gas car. Probably one of the best investments I have ever made. Mile for mile I drive around for much less than a gas/electric hybrid.

Lately, Detroit has been pusing the E-85 Ethanol cars. I feel badly for people who buy them. The extra money they spend to get the "FLEX-Fuel" car they could spend on converting their car to natural gas which is almost 3 times cheaper here in Utah and much more available than E-85.

Most E-85 car owners I have talked to don't even know if there is a pump in town they can fill up on. E-85 is a backroom deal between detroit and the Corn Lobby.

Dragonboy | 3:25 p.m. Sept. 3, 2008

This was a great article. Sure the concept may not be perfect yet and even the science behind it may be flawed but ideas like this lead to other ideas, and then others, and before you know it we have a much better alternative. And for those of you who think it is impossible that this man could be on to something because the large auto-manufacturers would have already investigated it I dissagree. Sometimes one creative mind can outthink an entire nation. I wouldn't be surprised if some auto manufacturer wasn't already looking at what this man is doing and trying to find a way to make it work large scale.

Phil | 3:42 p.m. Sept. 6, 2008

I am a university graduate and professionally registered electrical engineer for over 40 years in two states. I retired my professional registration about three years ago at age 65. For the past 6 months I have been reading, researching and experimenting with HHO technology which is actually about 85 years old. However most of what is being done today is based on the original work by Stan Meyers (check him out on You Tube)who during his lifetime generated 42 patents all of which had to be proven to the U.S. patent office prior to issue. There have been articles written by members of the ASE that validate some of the claims made by providers of this techology. Buyers should be knowledgeable, but most of that knowledge belongs to the past in this country due to lack of those few who have studied the sciences or are studying them in the U.S. today compared with those in China and India. Remember: In science we must be open minded as we do not know everything. I do believe in the conservation of energy....Properly designed HHO systems do work. I have two cars with HHO.

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