Deseret News | Reader comments: MormonTimes.com: The spiritual risks of online role-playing games

Reader comments
MormonTimes.com: The spiritual risks of online role-playing games

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STB | 6:09 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

I am going to admit that as an IT professional I am very familiar with this type of games. World of Warcraft and games like it can be addictive, not necessarily because of bad content but because they can waste many hours of time. I have peers who play these games for many hours on end and ignore children, spouses, jobs, parents, church, household chores, etc.

I also have peers who play sporadically and now their limits.

It is all about boundaries and priorities.

Parents need to set the boundaries way before a crisis arises. I mean we have even been taught by General Authorities about things like this.

Larry the Luddite | 7:21 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

I agree, STB, that parents need to take responsibility and maybe even show humor, i.e. warn about living in a van down by the river if all you do is play games. The online future is scary. I think WALL-E was a horror movie. Putting and reading comments on the desnews web site is also addictive.

So... | 7:46 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

What do you do when it's your spouse addicted to the game? I can't get my wife away from WoW for 10 minutes. She plays till 4 in the morning, is late to work, neglects me, our children, our home, her job. I have to work a lot of OT to make up for her not working. I spend all my time off taking care of the house. I attend family functions alone with my children while she's either playing or taking a power nap between raids. I have taken the game away and she just becomes irritable and childish, huffing and puffing around the house like a toddler. When I forced her to go out with me she just talked about the game and how she needs to get back cause they're all waiting for her and she spends so much time texting and talking to her friends from the game. I don't know what to do? I'd expect this behavior from a child and I can deal with that... but I can't teach my grown wife how to act like an adult... what do I do?

Comments continue below

RE: So | 8:21 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

I am so sorry. I really am sorry. Your marriage is guaranteed to end in divorce unless something changes.

Charles Knutson | 8:29 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

If you read the full article at MormonTimes.com, I'm misquoted on one point: "He said children should not be allowed to play online role-playing games before going on LDS missions." I didn't say this in my Education Week class, and I don't believe this.

I did say that young kids and teens (pre-mission kids) are at significant risk, and that parents should be extremely cautious. Limiting casual time on the computer is an absolute must no matter what we're talking about, and I personally feel a couple hours a day is an absolute max for online entertainment.

I also said that in *my* home I don't allow online gaming pre-mission, but we all understand that my home isn't the measure of all truth in the world or in the Church. Just a personal guideline from one father who's been around the block a bit. Your mileage may vary.

Of course not everyone struggles with addiction to online gaming, but there *are* strongly addictive aspects, especially for people with certain predispositions. It's important to recognize the risks going in, rather than stumbling into a problem area and suddenly finding yourself in too deep.

Charles Knutson

Dr Pangloss | 8:55 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

Is it a slow news day or what? This story is not news.

Just a Dad | 9:04 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

In response to RE:So, That is cruel to say that someones marriage is guaranteed to end in divorce. You should tell them to go talk to family counselors, or their bishop. Not to tell them divorce is guaranteed. How rude.

kathyn | 9:12 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

I have seen others who spend hours doing nothing but playing online games. And it really does take over a significant part of their lives to the exclusion of taking time with children and families.

I don't know if it's just "addictive personality" types who are like this or if any of us could become addicted. At any rate, this is a huge problem and I feel sorry for families that have to deal with this situation.

Marion Jensen | 9:20 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

There are a lot of things kids and adults can get addicted to. I've seen sports eat away at family time. Kids are always at practice, at games, training, reading about their sport, etc. Steve Young didn't go on a mission because of sports. He played his sport on the sabbath. But that doesn't mean we should ban sports from a teen's life. All addiction is bad, and it's important for parents to teach their children that activities should be taken and done in moderation. But because some kids and adults get sucked in to an unhealthy amount, doesn't mean the thing itself is unhealthy.

The point | 9:33 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

The point here is MODERATION in ALL THINGS!

Online games, sports, tv, reading and all things can play an important part in the leisure and entertainment of mankind. That haviing been said excess in any of them is BAD. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. And conversly all play and no work makes Jack a dull boy.

BALANCE IS THE KEY.

essay | 9:35 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

"So..." - I've been there. My wife was addicted to WoW as well. The game is designed to be addictive, you must spend hours to make little progress, the social connections that are present can feel liberating. The latter is especially dangerous as they are virtual relationships and not founded as real relationships are. People open up and form bonds much quicker because there's an illusion of anonymity and say things that may take months, if ever, to reveal to others, creating an artificial closeness. As a result, the game breeds deceit. My wife took off across the country to meet some of these people. I have heard of others who have done the same. My wife finally pulled back from the edge, but at a huge cost. I hate that game with a passion. My recommendation is to gather evidence of the addictive nature of the game, through this article and others, and confront her of the dangers and what is happening to your family, and "intervention" so to speak that may have to involve other family. Pray to Heavenly Father for inspiration that your words that your words will help her.

Jon | 10:03 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

I used to know a guy (no, that's not a round-about way of saying "me") who went to work, came home and played an online game, went to bed, got up and played, and went to work. The guy never speaks to his wife who is a a really nice girl. I feel so bad for her and can't believe that he'd ignore the girl he loves like that. I can't get enough of my fiance. I know I can't speak as I haven't walked a mile in his shoes, but I just can't see myself becoming sympathetic even, if I had taken that hike. How do people get so engrossed in this stuff? It's just a game. It's probably related to gambling addictions. Well, I guess I have nothing constructive to say, just lamenting and wondering.

this is "so..." | 10:28 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

I'm the guy who posted earlier about his wife. I really don't agree with dragging her to counselors and bishops, whatever. we're not active and have never been active and really don't need the church to get involved. My mom dragged my dad to counselors and bishops and in the end he resented her for it and still left us... if she doesn't want to change, she won't and I'm not going to "force" her to be a good wife and mother... if it's not the desire of her heart without any outside influence, it won't be with outside influence.

I just hate that I'm losing everything to a stupid video game... I wish it was a guy so that I could beat him up... but it's pretty demoralizing to lose your wife to a digital world of geeks and nose pickers.

Counterfeit | 10:28 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

The dictionary says a counterfeit is a copy or imitation, with the intent to defraud.

The author of "the other plan" has so many counterfeits he periodically introduces to the world, and it looks like this is just another in a long line of deceits. My heart goes out to you who have pointed out others addictions to this type of "counterfeit life".
I hope these deluded zombies can somehow wake up and get a real life.

To: this is "so..." | 10:42 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

Please don't take this wrong, but the problems you're up against with your marriage might just find resolution by becomming active in the church, your church, whatever church that may be.

If you sit idly by and hope things change, chances are they will...for the worse.

My soapbox speech would be: Often when couples go to their spiritual leader for assistance they wait until their situation is beyond repair. For example, when LDS couples go to their bishop for financial assistance the bishop feels (whether he says it or not) that things could have been fixed a whole lot easier had they come to him sooner and not waited until things got totally out of hand.

I'm just saying, don't wait until it's too late to help your wife and your marriage out. Take action soon, and good luck to you and your wife.

To So | 10:56 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

My wife is the same except its not games on the computer. Her 20 yr old son Is hooked and she acts like a child and does nothing to stop it. They are both into reading Harry Potter out loud and ignore me.I understand what you are saying about trying to get a child wife to act like an adult.My wife is 45 acts like a teenager or younger.Her son the same way.Its a disorder,a illness,cant be cured.Best you can do is to live with it or get out.Google personality disorders.You may see some interesting things.I wish you the very best. kenny

Jared | 11:03 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

The issue is not online role-playing games or first-person shooters or games in general. The issue is addiction. That's it. we can become addicted to just about anything - games, drugs, pornography, reading, running, eating, etc. I agree with "The point" in that we need moderation. Even "good" things can interfere with the "better" things.

This is a good issue to bring up, I just hope people don't take it wrong and think that online role-playing games are inherently evil.

Not Buying it | 11:25 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

My wife and I have been online "Gaming" for 6 years now. We have seen, been affected by, and gained and lost good friends over ever issue that has been talked about here. The trueth is the games are not "evil", you are ultimately responsible for how you spend your time.

The only thing I can come up with is that this type of entertainment will magnify any social and personal problems you might have because they are a kind of vacation from reality. So if the real world is not great, its very easy to try to live in a fake world.

We do not spend crazy time playing them, (we did at one time) and I think of it as a hobby these days mostly to have fun with friends. I suspect the kid not going on a mission had other far greater issues than a wow addiction.

Barbara | 11:41 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

There are many additions with having a computer. Mine is reading Des-News articles. My husband says I neglect him by reading Des-News-LOL! He says I should leave the blogs alone too. I tell him- BUT IT'S SO FUN! LOL!

Svenagain | 11:48 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

So...

I feel for you, and it's a total tragedy in the offing.

I know of another couple that did divorce b/c the wife was so immersed in this very game.

She started chatting with one of the players, and it wasn't too long b/4 the player, a much much older unemployed disabled male arranged a meeting, and voila, the marriage ended, kids are struggling, etc.

Turn off the internet and try and help her find some type of substitute activity, preferrably one that doesn't involve group games or vampire books.

Lots of things | 12:12 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

can become a complete waste of time if they become a priority over things of real significance. Virtual reality is far from reality and some are slowly sucked in and wonder why their life stinks. Many years from now, these gaming addicts will look back on their life and realize how little they accomplished.

Now THAT'S addicting! | 12:33 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

I'm addicted to reading the stupid comments that people leave on the Deseret News comments section.

A gamer was able to find a wife, or even a woman not related to him who was willing to talk to him?

Wait, what?

Anonymous | 1:50 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

More unwarranted parnoia from fanatic religious fools. All they can offer is anecdotal evidence. Individual stories are almost alwaye embellished and blown out of proportion. There is very little scientific research to suppor the claims this professor has made. It is irresponsible of him to make these claims.

Slimers | 1:56 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

TV is also a waist of time. People get sucked into laying around all day long on their couches, with huge screened TV's, and watch everything in HD now. People are turning into slugs.

unbelievable | 2:10 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

I've never been able to understand online gaming addictions. I've tried all the 'greats' growing up...doom, quake, wolfenstein, world of warcraft, etc... and I just couldn't get into any them. I thought it was a complete waste of my time. The kid that would not go on a mission cuz he couldn't game out there, that is the nerdiest thing I've ever heard in my life. Well, if he plays video games that much, he probably shouldn't be out there anyway. I'm sure his social skills are pretty sub par. I read about this kid who lost his WoW character and was so upset about it that he killed himself. Now THAT is rediculous. Jeez, grab a mtn bike and hit the trails, or go climb up a rock or something... there is so much more to life than being cooped up in your room on your stupid computer.

Emily E | 2:16 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

I want to point out that sometimes games can be a means for good. My husband and I have WoW accounts and play together quite a bit. My mother and father in-law also have accounts. I also have 3 brother in-laws that are all over the world that play with us. For us the game has become a way for us to connect with family and interact in a way that would be impossible any other way. I do know plenty of people that are addicted to the game and spend excessive amounts of time on it. But, for our family, it has been a really good thing.

The church... | 2:25 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

Isn't the end all be all... there are no answers there, it's an orginization devoted to guiding people down a path, the church's path... it's like fast food, drive down state street and you can find a 100 fast food joints that will cater to anyone's flavor... same thing with religion... I could find a religion to tell me that I'm right and she's wrong and she could find one that tells her she's right and I'm wrong... it's personal responsiblity... I have it and she doesn't and no bishop, pastor, not even God Himself will compel her to be a responsbile wife, mother and adult... the church didn't care about us before WoW and it won't after.

Cowboy | 3:12 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

There have been countless attempts from a variety of sources to place gaming and gamers in categories of addiction. Groups have attempted to correlate violent behavior with violent games, sedentary obesisty to prolonged gaming activity, social retardedness to virtual isolation. While there may have been some limited evidence to suggest a correlation between these conditions and gaming, nothing conclusive enough to demonstrate causation. There is such thing as playing too much games, especially when playing games interferes with your progress in other, more worthwhile endeavors. That would also apply when sports, TV/Movies, Celebrity gossip/infatuation, vanity, gambling, alcohol, partying, Church/Church callings, scripture study, etc, impede normal healthy development. I think it is a bit of a leap though, to suggest that these mediums therefore are universally damaging when only fringe groups use them as an expression of their compulsiveness. A video game did not keep the young man in the article from going on a mission. He did not go because he did not want to. I would caution against misinterpreting the situation by concluding that the games posed a physiological barrier to his refusal to serve a mission. It was a choice he made.

John | 3:26 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

TO:The point,
Where did you get "MODERATION in ALL THINGS!"? This saying does not exist.

As for online gaming THIS COULD BE THE END OF THE WORLD...............OF WARCRAFT!

Rich | 3:27 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

A woman I know threatened to leave her husband if he didn't give up on-line gaming and get a job. He refused. She filed for divorce to show him she was serious. He still refused. Now his is playing as much as he wants with no wife to bug him about getting a job. He's starting to worry about the rent, though!

Seriously, if you have a spouse addicted to anything, you must not be an enabler. You must put your foot down. If the person won't change, then you must. You deserve more than a spouse who won't live up to his or her responsibilities. Don't settle for less.

You don't have to be a nag. Just be serious when you outline the consequences to unacceptable actions. If you're too weak to follow through with those consequences, you will live your whole life with a weak, addicted spouse.

Wooh | 3:43 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

That would be so hot if my wife played world of warcraft.

Hollywood | 3:49 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

To So...

You, your wife and your CHILDREN do need counseling. I agree with others that have said this is an addiction, just like alcohol, drugs, pornography, too much TV watching, etc. Reread your first post. It describes exactly the behavior of one addicted to drugs or alcohol.

And who says the counselor has to be LDS? Sure a lot of counselors in Utah are, but you can find some that are of a different religion - or no religion at all.

If your wife won't go, I suggest you and your children attend counseling sessions. Just like any other addiction, all of you need to learn how to perhaps help your wife and not continue enabling this addiction. Without some professional help, your marriage will not survive.

In fact, I would say that right now, you really don't have a marriage. Your "wife" is merely a tenant, sharing the same house, but she has become estranged from you and just as importantly, her children.

I understand | 3:50 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

I play WoW and am still very much active in Church. As has been stated, you have to have limits. I look at it like any form of electronic entertainment. If I want to sit down and watch a movie, I know I'm going to eat up roughly 2 hours of my time. My gaming is the same. I still make time to read my scriptures, have family home evening, fulfill my calling, and be with my family. It's a balancing act. Just remember to keep the priorities straight!

Anonymous | 4:06 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

"Moderation in all things."

Andria Terence quotes (Ancient Roman comic Playwright and Dramatist of the Roman Republic. 195 BC-159 BC)

Michelle | 4:23 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

I don't understand how a game could be addicting. It can't be that fun to play. I am so sorry for the husband that can't get his wife away from the game. I would suggest counseling . . To the boy who wouldn't go on a mission without a laptop, he is an idiot.

Me, myself, and I | 4:35 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

Being an life long gamer (cut my teeth on pong, q-bert and pac-man)I know how addicting games can be (at least for me), but I also know self control. I knew that when I went on a mission I wouldn't be able to play for 2 years. I did it, and had no problem with it. I knew that when I got married, that I would need to not play anywhere as much. When I had kids, I knew I needed to play even less. Now the only time I play, is when my wife and kids are all asleep. It does not effect them. I also sells game online when I'm done with them and only purchase games when I have a birthday, Christmas, etc... so it's not a financial burden either. Bottom line, I love games, I love my family WAY more.

This is just like a lot of people have already stated. Anything in excess is a bad thing.

Eliza | 4:43 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

to "So"

My husband was just like your wife. (Although I was too at one time. I used to game all the time, and it's how we met.) Have you thought about asking her if she'd limit her game time *and* perahaps include you in it?

Best wishes. It's not an easy route.

kenny | 5:33 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

my wifes 20 yr old son plays games 24/7.Does not know anything else but that.Does not work,always home,no outside social life.He is a good example of how not to raise your kids.

Netizen | 5:34 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

I play Worold of Warcraft as well. I know my limits, and I know where my priorites are. I have family members that play WOW and other games alot more then I do. We have good friends across the world we interact with that you wouldn't get with "face time" people in your neighborhood. You are also exposed to new cultures, different perpectives, but it all works because you have something in common, WOW.

Online games are a good oportunity for those of us who have been shuned at Ward basketball...oops...Ward activities, and other supposed friendship building activities in the church which cater only to the athletically inclined and create more divisions and fighting then any "friendshiping".

Don't take this as an attack on activites in the church, because it isn't. But when you don't have a the stellar social skills those of you who claim not to understand how a game could be addictive, or all of your "friends" are busy trying out for the football team with the "cool" kids what else are you supposed to do?

Have limits, but don't condemn something becuase you don't understand the facts behind it.

kenny | 5:55 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

Did you know that the inventor of the first pong game was a mormon.

st | 6:09 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

I hate online games. We are REALLY struggling financially and my husband apparently thinks online games (Lords of Realm I think it's called??) is more important than our mortgage that is due in 15 days. We have 200 dollars in our bank account. He has not worked in a week. He owns his own business and therefore gets to set his own hours, so thankfully he cannot be fired from his job. But all he does all day instead of working is play this game with his brother. They played for seven hours yesterday and then he woke up at 5 am to play before I woke up. Ever since he started playing this game at the beginning of this week, I feel like we have lost all contact with each other. Anytime I try to have a conversation with him he just says something snappy. Any suggestions???

Chris D | 6:52 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

I find this comment stream really interesting. Anytime Ernest T. Bass isn't on the stream, it's a good read.

My wife and I gave up our television a year or so ago and our marriage is the better for it.

When we first got married, I had an X-Box and a few games, mostly Football, NFL and College. I was in law school and played at night.

My wife told me she didn't mind me playing and even learned herself. But it bored her.

One night, she said I had a choice, that I could play the game or "play with her." I asked, "if I choose the game, what happens?" She said, "I'll throw the game system away." Knowing that my wife must really resent the game system, I sold it a few days later.

We'll never buy another tv or gaming system and we use our computer sparingly. Our marriage is too important.

To the guy whose wife is hooked, that's what I'd do. I'd cut the wires or throw it away. The worst she can do is divorce you, and quite frankly, it sounds as if she already has.

absent spouse | 8:37 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

st - tell the man to donate plasma while he is gaming - make his time worth his while, and at least some of the air he breathes.

To everyone who is a WOW-widow(er) - the game is not the only thing to blame. It's an escape from whatever reality someone has to live with. You have to ask yourself what you are willing to do as well as the offending partner if you are going to ask for a reduction in gameplay time.

Honestly, calling condemnation down on a game is ridiculous anymore than saying television is awful or films are evil or dance halls or whatever the current social event is for young adults. It's just like that rock 'n roll music - the downfall of a generation at work. Not that it makes day-to-day life easier for people with wow-veggies hanging out in the house.

I don't know if counseling is as much of the issue as just finding something **fun** to do altogether. That's really all it takes.

John Pack Lambert | 9:02 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

I have issues with the inherent violence in some games. This is especially what I dislike about first person shooter games.
Some people need to take drastic measures to overcome their problems. Others can deal with some of these issues by moderating them.
I think though there is a difference between "role playing games", "online roll-playing games" and other games. Rollplaying games involve a higher level of immersing yourself in the game, and I have heard people who had good backgrounds in psychology state that these are damaging to proper emotional and social development.
Although there are issues with many games, the most dangerous are online roleplaying games. I have to admit that the very name of World of Warcraft makes me dislike and distrust it.

"Cease to be idol" | 9:05 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

By no means am I judging anyone, but we need to take check of our additions and our wasting of time. Years ago I was addicted to internet chat rooms, I would stay up until five in the morning chatting. This is the closest I get to on line communications, and I will leave a comment and not come back and reply or get into any dialogs with others.

I waste my time playing the seek and find games, I tell people it will help prevent alzheimers, but honestly, games can be positive, but not at the price of others.

My step son-in-law goes to school at night, and does not work at all, they have two children under three. What is he doing the rest of the time, while his wife works full time? He is playing games, so he spends 12 hours a week at school and she is spending 40 hours a week at work, that sounds fair. Oh, they are also on church welfare, real fare.

Some people have addictive behaviors, they express is in different ways, but I know how destructive it was for me to always be chatting and making those people my life.

Oops! | 9:07 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

I meant Cease to be Idle, I guess I have American Idol on my mind, I am addicted to that show :)

733tL0LHax0rz | 10:18 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

I read once about people who would check their spelling and grammar before posting to online forums. Now THAT'S ridiculous.

It's all true! | 11:00 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

My wife will play online games also. It's not a good thing. Her game was the Sims. I don't know? My bro. inlaw who also is a teacher and has a masters playes all the time too. He got me playin it once while I was at his house and I could see the danger of it. Also, when I was in grade school 25 years ago, there was another game out called (Dun. and Drag. )it all seems like the same prob. alot of time down the craper.

Bible | 11:06 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

In Revelations it talks about people looking into a stone all day long in the last days. what could that stone be?

To Bible??? | 12:49 a.m. Aug. 30, 2008

Where's the reference on that please.

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