Deseret News | Reader comments: Reviving the Dead Sea Scrolls

Reader comments
Reviving the Dead Sea Scrolls

DAVID ROLLINS/Boron California | 12:39 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Good article , More evidence to the truthfulness of
the Word of God.

Anna McIntire | 12:45 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Well, it is about time the world had access to these records. There have been books out about these scrolls for years. Thirty years ago LDS scholars were studying them and lecturing besides finding many similarities with the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ. How far away is the (timing)technology going to be online? Will it be as it is copied or at the end of five years? I glanced at the article and wasn't clear on it in my excitement that the religions that suppressed these scrolls are no longer influential to avert the doctrine waiting to be shared. I will watch for them with anticipation to study the finding's resurrection more or less.

Anonymous | 1:53 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

There is NO connection between the Dead Sea scrolls and the Book of Mormon!!!!

Comments continue below

dabolamorris | 7:14 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Hey anonymous at 1:53am - What are you so afraid of, the truth being exposed???

J in Iowa | 7:15 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Great that they will be making these documents available to the public.

But unless they are going to provide an english translation it would not seem useful or beneficial to the general public.

Pete | 7:29 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Some of the danger in opening up the scrolls to the public, is in translation. There will be many different translations, and many different arguments about which one is the true intent of the author. I am in favor of the pubic having access to the scroll data though. That it took almost 60 years to get to this point in time is the tragedy, as selfish scholars doing the translating decided that they had publication rights to what they had been paid to translate, and kept the information to themselves. Thanks to the efforts of men like Hershel Shanks of Biblical Archeology Magazine, and the Israeli Antiquities Authority, these documents have been set free for all to enjoy. The Dead Sea Scroll and Qumram story is a fascinating read.
Evidence of the word of God? No, just evidence that man wrote, and an organized religion existed

Atlman | 7:31 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

There have been no "religions who supressed these scrolls". Their fragile condition has been the cause for access by only limited scholars. No one has been denied access because of religous affiliation. Please, once and for all, stop with the conspiracy theories. No one is trying to suppress anything! Please appreciate the Scrolls for what they are...a wonderful archaelogical artifact from the 1st Century BCE.

Anonymous | 1:53 a.m | 7:44 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

dabolamorris | 7:14 may have a point...

There actually ARE a few connections between the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Book of Mormon. Both are works of fiction that use fear to control the thoughts and actions of people. Oh, and turn a profit in the process.

TrickyD | 8:15 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

And as far as truthfulness to the Restored Gospel, and as Pete points out, if you get the oldest existing manuscripts that use the original Greek for the New Testament, or Hebrew in the OT, and read those documents, you'll find many of the "plain and precious" doctrines that were filtered out over the centuries.

Cats | 8:20 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Actually, the Jews were denied access in the beginning. The scrolls were held by the Kingdom of Jordan and they wouldn't allow any Jewish access. When Israel took some territory which included the facility in which the scrolls were being stored, the Jews finally got access.

Also, the Editor in Chief for a long time, was a Catholic who was very anti-semitic and didn't want the Jews to have access. He also was a somewhat disturbed person who sort of thought the scrolls were his own personal property and he wouldn't let other scholars have access. The facility that had photos of the scrolls stored in the U.S. just made the decision to make the text available. That's how other scholars finally got access.

So you see, there was a lot of nastiness and pettiness that went on for a long time. I'm glad that the Scrolls are generally available now for anyone to study.

I agree that there is no direct connection between the B of M and the scrolls. However, they do give additional information than exists in the Old Testament. They prove that more scripture exists than just the accepted canon.

Just Curious | 8:21 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

What does BCE stand for?

Brother Chuck Schroeder | 8:48 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

The Dead Sea Scroll's were kept by the US Government, for how many years?, after they made their way to the State's, plus they were bought from this dealer of old thing's here in the states as well by them, than, when the Government thought "the world would end", they let them go to The American Public / People, perhaps there was a clue in them to ready us for we were about to die. The US Government had them in their hands for over 50 years to. NO MATTER WHAT type of a camera NASA has to pick up light images in faded words, there's still holes and broken pieces and we still can't read between those lines to those missing word's. I get tired of all this hype everytime the name of them are brought up. Plus the wannabe guess quack's on what they think or might say. IF these were tought in Public Schools as a HISTORY lesson is one thing, but the ACLU will not allow that now will they?. So "LET THEM REST IN PEACE", and focus on our future. That's what counts now. Not this crap.

Cats | 9:03 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

I highly doubt that "anonymous 1:53" has ever read either the Dead Sea Scrolls or the Book of Mormon.

Atlman | 9:27 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

for: just Curious.

B.C.E.
"Before common era." This abbreviation has come to replace the previously used B.C. ("before Christ"), and covers the period of history prior to the birth of Christ.
Thx. for noticing.

Ralph | 9:29 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

The Dead Sea Scrolls are only partly versions of the Bible. Much more, they contain obscure writings of the Essenes.

Ryan | 9:30 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

BCD= Before Common Era

RE: Just curious | 9:30 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

It stands for before common era

Matthew | 9:54 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

BCE = Before Christian Era

Matthew | 9:55 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Others will say BCE = Before Current Era

To each his own.

Anonymous | 10:03 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

There's a connection between the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Book of Mormon - President McCain wrote both to better the American people.

Whatever | 11:44 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

If it is written proves a story someone chronicled and nothing more. From what research I've done on the Bible and BOM that need a whole lot of faith to believe in. The BOM more so. Once beliefs have replaced facts, its senseless for a intelligent person to waste time arguing.

There is a interesting history of omissions like the Gospels of Mary. You have the Coptic and Gnostic texts of the Bible too.

CougarKeith | 11:50 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Actually the Dead Sea Scrolls verify some of the doctrines of the Book of Mormon, also of the Pearl of Great Price. There has also been some Latin Books from under the Vatican in the 20's which was translated published as "The Lost Books of the Bible & The Forgotten Books of Adam & Eve" which mention a plethera of other LDS doctrines. Of course the Catholic Church quickly denied access to further works it originally agreed to have translated, I have a copy of this book. The comment about the Dead Sea Scrolls having Essene doctrines as well is true. If you do your research on the writers of the Dead Sea Scrolls you will find they were a solitary group from the Jews who felt the Jews had gone apostate. They were looking for a Messiah. There is speculation John the Baptist may have stayed with them for a time. It is a wonderful study! I encourage all, no matter what your denomination to read and study the Dead Sea Scrolls, a copy of Isaiah is included in it, which verifies Isaiah's truthfulness, which by the way more correctly translates with passages of Isaiah in the BOM, interesting?

CougarKeith | 12:00 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Continued... The Dead Sea Scrolls and these other works I mentioned from under the Vatican also mention other such things, such as Crucifixes, and many things which tie in with Christianity as a whole. Truly when studying these things one needs to have an "OPEN" Mind. If you are Hard line LDS, or Hard Line ANTI-LDS, or STRICT BAPTIST viewed, or whatever your faith, you will miss the point and miss much in the line of education. You must be in line and in search of "THE TRUTH OF ALL THINGS", Pray and through the spirit, the scriptures, and the pursuit of truth be willing to decipher the difference of it all, and then have the faith and the courage to hunt down the TRUE FAITH OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST and keep His perception and attitude about it! This is serious business, and it is so important to remember that, then you can expand your mind into study of the Kabolla, and learning details about other religions of the world to finally discover the truth about "Religion" as a whole. You will find that at one point in the beginning, there was ONE FAITH which split from there.

CougarKeith | 12:08 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Finally... As I was saying, this one Original Group, we will say for the sake of argument "At The Time Of Adam", originally had a "Rift", and another group was started off of that, with many of the same beliefs, but cut off from God for their "Apostate beliefs" and "Pride", then it happened again, and again, and again till the flood, then after that with Noah and his sons, it happened all over again. Till we have today, Budists, and Hindu's and Muslims, and Jews, and over 2,000 Christian Denominations in the United States alone! This is what has happened and all have bits and pieces of the truth. This is what has happened, and why we had "The Dark Ages", with the inquisitions and all of that, and witch burnings and all the horrible atrocities that have happened over the centuries. I guess I have said enough. I hope my point has been well taken.

EdM | 12:20 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

To Cougar Keith,

Even back then...the Jews who joined with Jesus and broke away from traditional Judaism were considered apostates, so if we want to be "technical" about it all.....there was ONE faith...Judaism. In actuality, there have always been NUMEROUS faiths in this world, esp back then......so please do not mock those of other "faiths" whose faith goes beyond the last 2000+ years and say there was ONE FAITH which split from there. Oh, and I say this as a devout Catholic who acknowledges that there are many "truths".

Old TV | 12:30 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Does anyone else remember an episode of the '70's era show "WKRP in Cincinatti"? One episode was about a character 'the reverend little Ed', whos' radio ministry consisted of pitches for money for which gifts would be sent. Among the gifts was 'the dead sea scroll steak knives'. I think back to this every time I hear of the dead sea scrolls, and read the stuff like has been posted so far. The reverend Little Ed, to me, more closely reflects what I see in organised religion than anything else.

Not much to ask | 1:39 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Everyone has their purpose and journey here on earth. I believe Heavenly Father has allowed us to be where we are here, from the growth, needs and desires we had before we came here as spirit children. As I also believe, that the placement we receive to here was because of the choices we made there from what knowledge we attained in the pre- existence, the desires of our hearts, and the commandments we chose or chose not to keep. All religion plays a part in the plan. We are all at different places. All our Father in Heaven wants us to do is to know Him, and Have faith in His Son Jesus Christ, to Know Them Both, and use the atonement in our lives. The price of sin has been paid all He asks in return is that we keep the commandments. I believe that what ever your believe is in your religion is that you live it and humble yourselves and desire with all your heart to live as He would have you live your life. How about truly being kind, serving others, not judging, but just loving each other. Not that much to ask of us.

Joe P | 3:27 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

The reason that some scholars find a linkage between the BofM and the DSS is because both records talk of communities who were, in a pre-Christ era, nevertheless, "churches of anticipation," meaning they taught Christ and his doctrines prior to his birth and ministry, and anticipated and looked forward to that birth and ministry. As such, both records make a claim for a Judaism in Old Testament times that was informed by principles associated with Christianity,before Christ's advent. They both represent a New Testament mind-set in an Old Testament time period and setting. Although this similarity does not prove the validity or correctness of either record, it is interesting to scholars that two records from such different settings and time periods, nevertheless make a similar, and currently unpopular claim. If one were to accept the DSS as authentic and "true," the point could be made that the BofM's effort to make the same point, i.e. that Christ is the Jehovah of the Old Testament, is not without some third-party, outside, confirmation.

C

Dead Sea scrolls | 6:49 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

I have several books on the Dead Sea Scrolls,and can read Greek well enough to understand the book of Isaiah is the same we have in the OT today and it does not agree with the the JS inspired version.

Re: dead Sea scrolls | 8:25 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

It shouldn't surprise you that your translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls don't agree with the JS inspired version of the Bible. When were you sustained as Prophet, Seer and Revalator? If JS was a prophet,it was actually God who inspired the corrections. I for one have read much about the DSC and find the doctrine and teachings are very close to the LDS church, probably more so than any other Christian doctrine.

Pete | 8:46 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

In one translation of the New Testament about Jesus walking "on the water," the actual Greek words were walking "about the water." But, King James wanting a flamboyant translation, had his scribes used the word "on" which makes a much more exciting story. Sorry I don't have my text in front of me to give you the actual Greek words.

enlighten me here on this | 8:54 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

No one has "free agency".

Even since the time of Adam and Eve.

We all have "agency to choose" right from wrong, and, good from evil, WITHOUT living in that "gray area" between the two, and living a double life per se, without a true form of repentance, meaning never to do that wrong / evil ever again until we die. "How about truly being kind, serving others, not judging, but just loving each other. Not that much to ask of us" however, when SOMEONE is doing wrong / evil, we are NOT not judging them by telling them to "knock it off" and "stop doing that", because it effected us when we saw it, and YOU can't just turn your nose up at it and ignore it and walk past it. Liberal's love to live in that "gray area" between right and wrong. (Book of Mormon - Mormon 8:26 - 41) - 39 Why do ye adorn yourselves with that which hath no life, and yet suffer the hungry, and the needy, and the naked, and the sick and the afflicted to pass by you, and notice them not?

I would like to know.

Pete ,on the water | 9:34 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

The Greek word in The KJV, NIV and NKJ is (EPI)The root meaning is on,upon.

It's All Greek to Me and Pete | 9:16 a.m. Aug. 30, 2008

To Pete ,on the water, 9:34 p.m

Your lack of knowledge of the Bible and Greek is evident.

"walking on the sea." (Matthew 14:25)

"peripaton epi tin thalassan" (anglicized)

"epi" = superimposition (of time, place, order, etc.), as a relation of distribution (genitive: over, upon), or rest (dative: at, on), or direction (accusative: towards, upon).

Only a knowledge of contemporary Greek idiom can properly translate "epi" in context. As a Greek myself, I understand my people's idiomatic expressions.

Matthew 14:25 could mean Jesus (and Peter) were
"walking about the sea"
"walking at the sea"
"walking towards the sea"
"walking among the sea"
"walking through the sea"
"walking in the place of the sea"
"walking beside the sea"

Verse 14:24 says the ship was "meson tes thalasses" (among the waves of the sea) being "basanizomenon upo ton kumaton" (tossed with waves).

The idioms used and the context strongly suggest Jesus was walking among and through the shallows of a turbulent sea. The miracle was not that he walked ON the water, but that he was apparently unphased by the storm and waves, and walked "among" and "through" the waves washing randomly against the shore.

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4 photos

Associated Press

Photographs released by Israel's Antiquities Authority on Wednesday show fragments of the Dead Sea Scrolls before infrared imaging, right, and after. The improved images will be posted online.

Gallery (4 photos)