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LDS see jump in aid needs
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Dave | 12:38 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
Good Work. What a great resource.
Not Really | 7:16 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
LDS Social Services does the horrid job in helping people get employed . . . and
I know as a former user. Its volunteer missionaries often hurt more than they
help because they do not effectively "job match" candidates with their
talents.
I speak as a person who used their services and realized how inadequate it was -- and how empty the promises made were by the Church to help people to become their best. . . I got to know personally the man who ran the program, but his hands were tied by the "higher ups" who sub-optimized the program by using inept volunteers, rather than "doing it right the first time."
Those who lead must do more than try hard and mean well. I hold advanced degrees in HR as well as professional certifications. I volunteered to help fix the system at headquarters and was told my help was not needed.
"Denial" is NOT the river in Egypt. The LDS Church must get serious about its ethical duties to its members, and the current LDS Employment System is a failure.
I speak as a person who used their services and realized how inadequate it was -- and how empty the promises made were by the Church to help people to become their best. . . I got to know personally the man who ran the program, but his hands were tied by the "higher ups" who sub-optimized the program by using inept volunteers, rather than "doing it right the first time."
Those who lead must do more than try hard and mean well. I hold advanced degrees in HR as well as professional certifications. I volunteered to help fix the system at headquarters and was told my help was not needed.
"Denial" is NOT the river in Egypt. The LDS Church must get serious about its ethical duties to its members, and the current LDS Employment System is a failure.
samhill | 7:37 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
Hmmm.
One of the responses above appears very much like those of a "disgruntled former employee".
Care to guess which one?
One of the responses above appears very much like those of a "disgruntled former employee".
Care to guess which one?
Comments continue below
To NOT REALLY | 7:47 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
Maybe the sistem is not perfect, there is a lot of volunteers, and bacause of
that the LDS church can do their best to help people like you. Instead of
talking bad about somebody trying to help DO SOMETHING or be a volunteer and try
to make your experience an opportunity to help somebody else better!!!
The Inept person is you not them, because there is a lot of resources to find a job, not just the LDS church.
Please next time you need a job, do it by yourself, dont be lazy and make others find your job
The Inept person is you not them, because there is a lot of resources to find a job, not just the LDS church.
Please next time you need a job, do it by yourself, dont be lazy and make others find your job
Dr. J | 8:02 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
Dear "Not Really":
Ultimately, a job placement agency is only as good as the client it has to work with. So, all fingers point back to you, and your lack of --skill, appeal, ability, etc.
Ultimately, a job placement agency is only as good as the client it has to work with. So, all fingers point back to you, and your lack of --skill, appeal, ability, etc.
Dissatisfied Employer | 8:06 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
As an employer, I have tried on two occasions to use LDS Employement Services.
Because they use part-time volunteers, there is no one there for an employer to
interact with and the response time is unacceptable. Both times they responded
"weeks" late, long after the positions had been filled.
Lewis | 8:10 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
Things will get worse. Please read D & C 29: 16
LDS Employment System Works | 8:17 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
Clearly someone needed an anonymous forum to grind their ax. I live on the East
Coast and the LDS Employment Center is excellent. As a matter of fact, many
professionals attend the seminars as a means of improving their own skills. I am
aware of success story after success story of using the LDS Employment
Center.
It sounds like the above writer had his/her sights set too high. The mission of the center is to get men and women back to work and to help those who are underemployed get better jobs. It cannot take someone with only basic skills and place them in a highly technical field or in a white collar position. No employment agency worth its salt will do that. The center would be setting all parties up for failure if it were to do that.
The services offered range from resume writing clinics to optimizing work skills and targeted training and education opportunities to increase an individual's value.
It sounds like the above writer had his/her sights set too high. The mission of the center is to get men and women back to work and to help those who are underemployed get better jobs. It cannot take someone with only basic skills and place them in a highly technical field or in a white collar position. No employment agency worth its salt will do that. The center would be setting all parties up for failure if it were to do that.
The services offered range from resume writing clinics to optimizing work skills and targeted training and education opportunities to increase an individual's value.
Cats | 8:18 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
to Samhill: RIGHT ON!
L. Smith | 8:26 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
I am glad to see the church helping someone. All the money collected from fast
offerings in the South go to help Utah.
Maybe, maybe not | 8:27 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
Maybe the person is a former employee, and maybe not. Maybe the criticism is
valid. Why dismiss it so easily?
Don't worry | 8:28 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
All is well in Zion. The people are righteous, have the one true religion, so
nothing bad will happen here and they don't ever have to worry about taking
personal responsibility for things like.....oh say, overpopulating, polluting,
destroying the environment....foolish things like that.
Actually... | 8:32 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
I have to agree with Not Really. When I moved here last year, I went to LDS
Employment services. The volunteers really weren't helpful, but not for
lack of trying. I could tell they wanted to help, they just really didn't
know much. They need to have more supervsion & better training from people
who know what they are doing.
Sorry, volunteers... I know it hurts, because you really do try.
Sorry, volunteers... I know it hurts, because you really do try.
Oh Brother! | 8:36 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
No wonder 'not really' couldn't find a job....I wouldn't
hire someone with that attitude either, I don't care how many degrees he
has!
it's true | 8:37 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
LDS Social Services is a joke. The people they sent me to interview were total
losers. One of the guys I called to schedule an interview told me he
couldn't talk because he was busy taking a nap. Most of the volunteers are
old people that can't even use a computer efficiently.
re: NOT REALLY | 8:49 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
If your so marvelous why couldn't you find your own job. I mean, your the
one with the advanced degree in HR?
STB | 8:59 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
Not Really, yes there are volunteers (and missionaries) serving at LDS
Employment Services but they also have paid employees that are very
knowledgeable and resourceful.
I think you are confused on what they do. You must remember that LDS Employment services is not a staffing agency. If you want lists of jobs contact the state employment offices. LDS Employment Services would tell you the same thing.
Their primary purpose is not to you give a list of jobs or find the job for you. If they are aware of positions they publicize them. Their purpose is to teach you how to effectively look for employment, network, interview for one, and negotiate. Just like with the church as a whole. they provide the tools, you provide the leg work.
LDS Employment Services is a great service. I know, I worked with them when I changed jobs earlier this year.
I think you are confused on what they do. You must remember that LDS Employment services is not a staffing agency. If you want lists of jobs contact the state employment offices. LDS Employment Services would tell you the same thing.
Their primary purpose is not to you give a list of jobs or find the job for you. If they are aware of positions they publicize them. Their purpose is to teach you how to effectively look for employment, network, interview for one, and negotiate. Just like with the church as a whole. they provide the tools, you provide the leg work.
LDS Employment Services is a great service. I know, I worked with them when I changed jobs earlier this year.
Not Really??? | 9:00 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
Not really, if you have advanced degrees in HR and other professional
certifications and you could not even help yourself fimd a job and turned to an
all volunter service, something is wrong with that picture. I have two sisyers
who are HR professinal and jobs are plentiful in that field.
Just by rerading your response it sounds like you have a very hard personality to accomidate and that you are not a team player, your personality sounds like it is your way or no way and you always no best.
Good luck in your future indevors.
By the way, I'm not a member but have voluntered many times at welfare square and have purchased food storage items from the cannery. It is a good place to volunter and the people are nice for the most part.
Just by rerading your response it sounds like you have a very hard personality to accomidate and that you are not a team player, your personality sounds like it is your way or no way and you always no best.
Good luck in your future indevors.
By the way, I'm not a member but have voluntered many times at welfare square and have purchased food storage items from the cannery. It is a good place to volunter and the people are nice for the most part.
Lee | 9:02 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
To Not Really,You said that you had a degree?Just do like the rest of us and hit
the pavement for a job.This is an example of what former Sen. Gramm meant by his
statement of us being "a nation of whiners".
Fly_on_the_wall | 9:12 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
A few years ago I needed several employees for my business. I posted on the
church's website and the job service web site. I received over a dozen
applications from the job service posting and one from LDS employment services.
I do question the effectiveness of LDS employment services. I hope others have
had better luck.
I don't get the comments | 9:14 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
The employment help is a FREE service, they use volunteers. Why do you think it
is a requirement for the LDS church to get you a job? You want wall-street, pay
for a professional job service. You want food on the table, then the LDS can
help.
I'm so tired of the bashers, go outside and take a deep breath... relax.
I'm so tired of the bashers, go outside and take a deep breath... relax.
Helpful, but.... | 9:17 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
My experience mirrors others as a hiring manager. I've submitted open
positions to LDS employement services and generally don't hear back for
weeks, long after I've filled the position. My feeling is that if the
church wants to really help job seekers, hire some professionals with real job
placement experience and pay them a decent wage. You can still have volunteers
to assist, but the dept managers and placement officers should be paid,
experienced employees.
3yrs later | 9:34 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
The system is great... I've been on thousands of interviews in 3 years, but
still haven't been able to work. I've got an MBA, but it always seems
that I'm not the right person.
Happy in SoCal | 9:39 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
I don't understand whats wrong in Utah. I live in Southern California and
have put four kids through BYU and have two attending there now. Every year
they come home for the summer and easily find jobs paying $20 to $25 per hour.
One of my son's made $18,816 dollars this summer (May through mid August)at
an hourly wage job + some overtime. He's in Hawaii for 10 days before
school starts. We don't have a single professional in our enitre stake who
is unemployed or underemployed. I'm delighted we can all pay a generous
fast offering. What's going on Utah???
Willbur | 9:48 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
Sounds like Not Really is having trouble finding a job and is lashing out. The
ultimate responsibility of finding a job is up to him/her. Get training, change
skills, start looking in other parts of the country. People and agencies
(especially if they're free) can help but they are not required to put the
perfect, dream job in your lap while you just sit back. You have to do some
legwork, too.
GVS | 10:22 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
Let's get back to the main issue of this article, that of helping folks
that have lost their jobs. It is about much more than help finding the
unemployed a new job, we have the state funded Workforce Services for that. It
is about training and support during a difficult time.
The LDS Welfare program is probably the best and most efficient of any non-profit program in existence. My only opposition comes with its "Don't ask, don't tell" when supplying services to illegal aliens. A very high percentage of those receiving LDS welfare services, including employment, are illegal aliens that would have otherwise been forced to return to their own country. I would much rather that my donations be used to support them in their home country than here in the United States. I hope that Jorge Carranza is a legal resident of the U.S., but since the Church avoids this issue he may well not be. By the way illegal aliens are not eligible for support from Utah Workforce Services.
The LDS Welfare program is probably the best and most efficient of any non-profit program in existence. My only opposition comes with its "Don't ask, don't tell" when supplying services to illegal aliens. A very high percentage of those receiving LDS welfare services, including employment, are illegal aliens that would have otherwise been forced to return to their own country. I would much rather that my donations be used to support them in their home country than here in the United States. I hope that Jorge Carranza is a legal resident of the U.S., but since the Church avoids this issue he may well not be. By the way illegal aliens are not eligible for support from Utah Workforce Services.
Effective Job Placement Services | 10:22 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
MY experience with job placement services in general has been poor (and I
emphasize "MY", because they may not reflect other's experience).
Job placement services seem to be an ineffective way for highly-skilled workers
and professionals to find good jobs. Even when I used a professional job
placement service at a top 20 business school the workers just aren't able
to grasp your unique skills. In my experience, the most effective way to find a
good job is to contact other professionals within your industry or field - they
know and appreciate your skills and can match you with companies that are hiring
those skills.
My experience has not included the LDS Employment Services.
My experience has not included the LDS Employment Services.
Echo | 10:34 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
I echo "Maybe, Maybe Not."
I applaud LDS Services for reaching out and helping many people. That does not mean that the service is flawless or that there is no need for improvement (and I think the "highest ups" would agree that we always have room for improvement).
Why all the harsh words for Not Really? If someone disagrees with Not Really's assessment, perhaps one could do it without attacking the poster with speculation about his/her situation, background, or personality. Although I hope it is a rare, it is possible that a good person could have a bad experience with a church program. The church is full of great people, none of whom are perfect.
I applaud LDS Services for reaching out and helping many people. That does not mean that the service is flawless or that there is no need for improvement (and I think the "highest ups" would agree that we always have room for improvement).
Why all the harsh words for Not Really? If someone disagrees with Not Really's assessment, perhaps one could do it without attacking the poster with speculation about his/her situation, background, or personality. Although I hope it is a rare, it is possible that a good person could have a bad experience with a church program. The church is full of great people, none of whom are perfect.
Re: 3yrs later | 10:36 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
You're an MBA and have been on "thousands" of interviews over the
past 3 years and still don't have a job? WOW! At some point you have to
start taking a good hard look in the mirror.
Juan V | 10:45 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
I come to Utah for job. Mormons very nice people and help my family. They help
me find job but not yet work. I wait for more paying job.
oh George! | 11:09 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
To "It's True", even though you agree with the complaining of
"not really" you indicate that they did send you people to interview,
they answered the phone and apparently did their best to help someone who
apparently wasn't high quality enough to begin with, which validates
"Oh Brothers" point - that you need good quality individuals to begin
with! I venture to guess it was this kind of murmuring that stifled the saints
when given the opportunity to live the law of consecration the 1st time around.
Just ignore the loser | 11:21 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008
To "re: NOT REALLY"
"If your so marvelous why couldn't you find your own job. I mean, your the one with the advanced degree in HR?"
He's incompetent and probably got fired from his last position because he was a bad employee and a problem in the work place.
I have had co-workers just like him. They create a bad work environment and I'm sure that his employer had to let him go or face losing quality employees.
Anyone with an HR degree should be able to easily find a position either in HR or as a manager or Assistant Manager of a Retail store. Don't let this man do to you what he has done to previous employers and co-workers. He doesn't deserve a response.
It's best to ignore these kind of people in the workplace, Church, and on this forum.
"If your so marvelous why couldn't you find your own job. I mean, your the one with the advanced degree in HR?"
He's incompetent and probably got fired from his last position because he was a bad employee and a problem in the work place.
I have had co-workers just like him. They create a bad work environment and I'm sure that his employer had to let him go or face losing quality employees.
Anyone with an HR degree should be able to easily find a position either in HR or as a manager or Assistant Manager of a Retail store. Don't let this man do to you what he has done to previous employers and co-workers. He doesn't deserve a response.
It's best to ignore these kind of people in the workplace, Church, and on this forum.
3yrs later | 12:10 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008
I've been told here more than a few times, that I don't have the
skills to be a manager... ROFL How do u get experience if you can't get
hired..
So after 3 years of searching, I've already started to get my RN, for those keeping score
So after 3 years of searching, I've already started to get my RN, for those keeping score
ramper | 12:20 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008
To: happy in So. Calif.
$20-$25 an hour in Southern California? Isn't that poverty wages there?
$20-$25 an hour in Southern California? Isn't that poverty wages there?
SFC RET DENNIS | 12:23 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008
What has not been said is that a the worker has a list of available jobs and
is posted on the bulletin board and the worker as a copy for a job seeker to
look at. The church servers worker does not go a round calling employers it is
for the job seeker to call the employers about the job listing.
If the employers gets no call or only one call then this might be do to the fact that there is no one qualified for the job or no one needs a job in that field.
Thank about it people, it is YOUR JOB not the employments agencies job to find you a place to work, there job is to help you lean the skills to need to land a job.
If the employers gets no call or only one call then this might be do to the fact that there is no one qualified for the job or no one needs a job in that field.
Thank about it people, it is YOUR JOB not the employments agencies job to find you a place to work, there job is to help you lean the skills to need to land a job.
Re: 3yrs later | 12:24 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008
Yeah, I'm holding out for a management position as well. I always said
I'm not going to start at the bottom and work my way up. That just takes
too long. Stay focused and don't give up on your dream. Perhaps we can hang
out some time. World of Warcraft anyone?
Show Some Compassion | 12:44 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008
You might not agree with Not Really, but lay off the "loser" comments.
tough situation | 1:13 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008
there is noting tougher than having a family and being unemployed. Everything in
life stops when you are unemployed. Depression and discouragement are common.
The job search process is brutal. Interview and wait interview and wait.
Actually, many can't even get interviews. You have to prepare hard for the
interviews which is very taxing in and of itself. I for one am VERY thankful for
ANY assistance that the Church gives because they don't have to do it -
they just do. My heart goes out to anyone unemployed at this time.
Diego | 1:23 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008
Well, at least the volunteers are making the attempt.
The quality of professional head-hunters and recruiters has fallen precipitously over the last several decades, and made worse by the proliferation of body shopping. They don't seem capable of reading a resume, anymore, let alone brokering long-term placements, even of people with PhDs in the hard sciences, or tech workers and engineers with lesser degrees.
The quality of professional head-hunters and recruiters has fallen precipitously over the last several decades, and made worse by the proliferation of body shopping. They don't seem capable of reading a resume, anymore, let alone brokering long-term placements, even of people with PhDs in the hard sciences, or tech workers and engineers with lesser degrees.
to 3yrs later ... | 1:29 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008
thousands of interviews over 3 years time? You have an MBA? Say what?? I think
after the 687th interview I would have decided to change careers.
Teddy | 1:46 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008
No matter what crazy myths and foolish history the LDS church has, this is one
thing they do that is valuable. Keep up the good work. If there was a way to
donate to these kind of projects without giving anything to the Church itself, I
would do it in a heartbeat.
Dave in Midvale | 2:16 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008
Dear "Teddy"
The scriptures say that "charity is the true love of Christ." This "one thing they do that is valuable" IS the Church. "By their fruits, ye shall know them. . ." You can't separate the fruitful action s from the christian, likewise, you can't separate the LDS Church's Welfare Services from the Church. . . it's all "
hand in hand."
The scriptures say that "charity is the true love of Christ." This "one thing they do that is valuable" IS the Church. "By their fruits, ye shall know them. . ." You can't separate the fruitful action s from the christian, likewise, you can't separate the LDS Church's Welfare Services from the Church. . . it's all "
hand in hand."
Teddy | 2:25 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008
To Dave in Midvale,
Exactly why I don't donate. The LDS Church has a booming business! they make billions of dollars every year, but only a portion of a percent goes to actual "welfare".
The welfare stuff is true Christianity. The rest is the Cult.
Exactly why I don't donate. The LDS Church has a booming business! they make billions of dollars every year, but only a portion of a percent goes to actual "welfare".
The welfare stuff is true Christianity. The rest is the Cult.
To Dave in Midvale | 2:46 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008
Just to be clear, by "fruits" do you mean shopping malls, banks,
insurance companies, etc.?
as400 | 2:52 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008
Dave,
Even Organized Crime Families give generously to philanthropies and charities. "By their fruits you shall know them"! Does that mean Mafia and gang crime families are "true" and "of God"??
Apparently you think so.
Why don't you get a clue?
Even Organized Crime Families give generously to philanthropies and charities. "By their fruits you shall know them"! Does that mean Mafia and gang crime families are "true" and "of God"??
Apparently you think so.
Why don't you get a clue?
Bubba | 2:58 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008
To Teddy: Waaaah! Cry me a river... Tithing money is not welfare money, per se.
Name me one better organization to donate to. I guarantee that you can find
nobody who donates more of the actual welfare portion of what they receive as
welfare money.
Not Really: Sounds as if you were expecting a handout yourself. Get off your butt and do something with your own life, rather than expecting somebody else to put you in a cushy high paying no work job.
To everyone else... Yes, being unemployed stinks, but you can generally do something about it. It may not be the high power executive job you have always dreamed of, but there is plenty to do out there. Think outside the box. Get more training. Go back to school. Do something besides sitting around complaining about how tough the times are!
Not Really: Sounds as if you were expecting a handout yourself. Get off your butt and do something with your own life, rather than expecting somebody else to put you in a cushy high paying no work job.
To everyone else... Yes, being unemployed stinks, but you can generally do something about it. It may not be the high power executive job you have always dreamed of, but there is plenty to do out there. Think outside the box. Get more training. Go back to school. Do something besides sitting around complaining about how tough the times are!
Bob | 3:02 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008
Not Really hit a nerve. Many LDS reflexivly personally attack the messenger of
bad news. Not Really described his experience, as did some others in this
comment page. Could the service be more responsive with better trained
volunteers? Probably.
One General officer of the Church says Training and Tenure are critical, and he spells "tenure" "ten year." I see revolving door volunteers with very little training. No wonder Church programs in theory don't always match reality.
Gov. Leavitt commented years ago that Utahns need to discover that many very high paying jobs are not professional but technical. Hence the creation of the Area Technology Centers. "Happy in So. Cal." gave a specific example of what Gov. Leavitt was talking about.
White Collars are a dime a dozen in Utah, and wages reflect that. Skilled Techs are valued and wages reflect that too.
One General officer of the Church says Training and Tenure are critical, and he spells "tenure" "ten year." I see revolving door volunteers with very little training. No wonder Church programs in theory don't always match reality.
Gov. Leavitt commented years ago that Utahns need to discover that many very high paying jobs are not professional but technical. Hence the creation of the Area Technology Centers. "Happy in So. Cal." gave a specific example of what Gov. Leavitt was talking about.
White Collars are a dime a dozen in Utah, and wages reflect that. Skilled Techs are valued and wages reflect that too.
By their fruits? | 3:12 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008
Dave,
I own a thriving business in a 3rd world country. Part of my profits are earmarked to provide scholarships and other educational opportunities to the locals, with a preference to family members of my workers. I do this for a couple of reasons. It's good for the soul. And, it's good for business. Believe me, I'm no saint, but according to your definition, I must be. It would be interesting to know what percentage of profits the LDS church earmarks for these kinds of activities. I think most people would be surprised and I'm willing to bet that it's not as big a percentage as what I do.
I own a thriving business in a 3rd world country. Part of my profits are earmarked to provide scholarships and other educational opportunities to the locals, with a preference to family members of my workers. I do this for a couple of reasons. It's good for the soul. And, it's good for business. Believe me, I'm no saint, but according to your definition, I must be. It would be interesting to know what percentage of profits the LDS church earmarks for these kinds of activities. I think most people would be surprised and I'm willing to bet that it's not as big a percentage as what I do.
To 2:46 | 3:38 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008
100% of fast offerings go to charity work.
tithing goes tords the physical operation of the church as well as charity work, I don't know specific percentages, but I do know that NONE of it goes towards "shopping malls, banks and insurance companies" these are funded by the church from outside revenue sources, before they become self-funding. Try not to distort the facts.
To teddy:
You are correct, the church has a busness side, as does any other entity. Most people/families do as well. But I am sure you live the true sackcloth and ashes type of life.
"I just seem to take whatever the Salvation Army pays me and I give it right back."
tithing goes tords the physical operation of the church as well as charity work, I don't know specific percentages, but I do know that NONE of it goes towards "shopping malls, banks and insurance companies" these are funded by the church from outside revenue sources, before they become self-funding. Try not to distort the facts.
To teddy:
You are correct, the church has a busness side, as does any other entity. Most people/families do as well. But I am sure you live the true sackcloth and ashes type of life.
"I just seem to take whatever the Salvation Army pays me and I give it right back."
rampe | 4:27 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008
What percentage of what the Church takes in and gives out is a moot argument
since they do not reveal these figures unless required by law. In Canada their
figures are published and the giving (charity) percentages are dismal compared
to some other religions. It would be interesting to know how much money coming
out of business ventures is funneled back to Church expenses. I remember one of
the Presidents (sorry, I can't remember which one) who stated: "The
outgo keeps pace with the income." Meaning they try to balance it out as
best as possible. But, I do have major issues with over a billion dollars going
for malls and downtown revitalization (unless it is in Philly of course). I
guess it is a transparency vs. faith issue to some degree.
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- Lobo land like home for BYU lineman
- BYU soccer incident still popular
- U. hopes to keep clicking
- House passes health care bill
264 - TCU showdown has big implications188
- Lobo suspended185
- Cougars crush hapless Cowboys155
- Senators want food tax restored150
- Utah Jazz fall apart against Kings131
- TCU 4th in AP poll; U. 16th, Y. 22nd119
- No 'backlash' for pioneers, gays analogy105
- S.L. vote pending on gay protections104
- Utes pound winless Lobos89
Maybe someone out there can help me understand how raising the state...
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So are you saying that women's soccor should evolve into this type of...
The Church has never been about hating gays, or any other group. It has only...
To which I add Amen, and Amen! [Thank you!]
this is going to so much fun? Gee who do i cheer for if REAL plays Galaxy? ...
The great QBs make defenses pay for bringing pressure. Hall offers up...
I completely concur, this exhibition game was supposed to be easy and a blow...
Maybe we should just back up 50 years and do away with all laws etc. passed...
So does Hall enjoy absorbing the contact as Call says, or in Hall's own...
Well put, let it die. A lot people who want the health care bill haven't...
If Jerry studies "game tape" he will see how to beat the Celtics, see Phoenix...
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