Deseret News | Olympics badly need big change

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Olympics badly need big change

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Sasha Pachev | 11:39 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

A perspective from somebody who experienced the Moscow Olympics from the other side of the fence. Just like in China, in the typical communist style we had a lot of pokazukha, a Russian word that roughly translates as show-off, but it is too weak. But on the other hand, the number of athletic venues in Moscow doubled which increased opportunities for sport participation for the youth. When I got older, I trained in many of those facilities. I heard public announcements in English, and it was a start that later on led me to learn the language. Communism thrives off isolation. When a Communist country hosts the Olympics no matter what they do they dig Communism a grave. We should let them if they insist.

Dr. J | 11:40 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I've been to China, and studied Chinese culture and politics, and had many Chinese graduate students. I'd say Doug is right on the money. What Doug didn't do however, was hit the real reason the Olympics have to change. Here it is . . .

Anything on a sailboat, kyak, horse, or with a gun has to go. Also, it's either Judo or Taekwondo, and trampoline or diving. Period!

Brother! | 11:58 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

For those of you thinking you need proof . . . Do you not read the paper or listen to the news? It has been in both venues! The cheating by the Chinese in gymnastics has been unbearable! And no one dares to challenge them. I feel so bad for the ones that really deserved the gold medals and were cheated out of it. Sixteen-year-olds?? Give me a break!

Comments continue below

mankind | 12:06 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Yeah, the Olympics should be about the world coming together for a couple weeks. There is a fine line between a country's self aggrandizing and doing something for the betterment of mankind. So why did Salt Lake play: "I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free" by Lee Greenwood as their closing song? It was an improper ending to what would have indeed otherwise been an event that brought the world together.

bennett | 12:19 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

AMEN!!

Double Standard | 12:38 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Better to lie and cheat to win a gold medal than to lie and cheat to invade a country.

Truth | 1:08 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

There are actually people who see the truth.

He didn't show proof BECAUSE IT IS APPARENT!! Everywhere you look there is evidence and even proof of what is going on. People have been moved from their homes, the protestor info he refered to DOES NOT NEED backing up as WE'VE ALL SEEN IT. You people need to wake up. I would post at least two sources for any of the things he said but I can't create links in comments... just google a little.

Go Doug!! I'm glad to see real honest reporting again. I wish more Utan's would care. One of my strongest LDS beliefs is getting engaged in helping others and when governments are ruining people's lives we ought to step in a little. China is digging their own grave with corruption. Justice is served in this life or the next.

Mc | 1:32 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I enjoy seeing the Olympics in different venues each time. I love to see the different cultures and I love that we had the opportunity to host the Games here. I don't think any of us are fooled by the efforts of the Chinese government to make their country look more free and prosperous than it really is. Having the Olympics there gives us a peek into conditions there that we would not have had otherwise. Nothing I've seen has convinced me life is better there, so don't worry. We're bright enough to see through the ruse.

one thing's for sure... | 1:42 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

the women's basketball team isn't going to lose to China's team whether they're 13 or not.

Sharon Martinez | 2:12 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I like the idea of having a permanent Olympic Site. Any ideas where that could be?

Questions | 2:18 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Have you been shot at lately? Has your home or business been broken into? Our neighborhoods are not demilitarized zones, with drug dealers on every corner. But if your only view of Utah was the one that the media portrayed you'd believe that were the case. If the only Mormons you knew were the ones on tv, you'd think we were all excommunicated deviants, or worse Osmonds. If Rocky Anderson was what you knew of Utah, you'd think that this was a hotbed of anti-war, pro gay-marriage liberalism. 'Cause he's the one on the news. But life ain't like the news.

All of these could be extrapolated by the public as truths because it is what they see in the media. Would they lie? Anyone who lives here knows that it's only the extremists that get the headlines. Rank and file life is NOTHING like the news. We seem to understand this as it applies to ourselves, but forget when applied to others. We are happy to oblige the shocking stereotypes set before us about China. I've been there, I speak the language and I know the people. They have the same faults and gifts we do. Wake up!

JB | 2:35 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Doug -
Perhaps you're right, perhaps you're wrong. I'm not informed enough to say. But one thing I will say is that I don't see your proposed solution of having a single host country being any better than having a different bidding country every four years. First of all, who will be the (un)lucky "neutral" host country every four years? Is there such a thing as a "neutral" country? Wouldn't such a situation give one country home court advantage every time? Who foots the bill? Is that any more fair? In whose opinion?

It's always extremely easy to complain and say things need to be different, but it's extremely difficult to find a well thought-out, realistic solution.

Disturbed | 2:51 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I read this article and was disturbed by its tone. Out of curiousity I read through some of the comments and then re-read the article, and I am even more disturbed. It is interesting to note that those who have traveled to China and have interacted with the Chinese in business or otherwise have a completely different view of China than does Doug and some of the commentators. Although there are some truths in the article that apply to all Olympic venues, including SLC (i.e., corruption, costs, etc.), the broad-brush anti-Chinese tone of the article reflects more on the author's own narrow view of the world, than it does on China or the need for a neutral venue. Having spent considerable time in China over the last couple of years, there are many aspects of Chinese culture and society that I find preferable to the U.S. or the western world. Yes, China is still a communist country, but to assert that nothing has changed about China is an ignorant and incorrect statement.

Fencing.... | 3:02 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

is way too fast these days. They need to slow down and have a good old real duel......LOL!!

bobbeck | 3:05 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Shame on the IOC. Boycott all who profit from the sport until they pressure the IOC to withdraw the medals. the IOC must withdraw the medals of the 2004 medalist who have admitted to being underage. The CCG (Chinese Cheating Games)are a true disservice to all children who practice hard to be great athletes. And all families who sacrifice to support them. If the IOC lets the underage girls, (they can use forensics and Chinese documents to prove ages) retain their medals why should any family sacrifice $1,000 of dollars a year to support those who will not stand up and organize. All suppliers,coaches,referees,gyms,manufacturers who make their living from gymnastics must ban together to force the IOC to act. If there is not a world wide outcry then those in the sport who make their living are only profiteers.Call you local news channel call the IOC write letters get involved. Maybe the pain of loss of income will motivate those with a computer and a phone to act.

Re: Truth | 3:14 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I'm not disputing that Doug has been "truthful." I just think his selective focus on the few negative aspects of China, at the exclusion of the many great aspects, is misleading, dishonest, and a tad bit xenophobic.

And Another Thing... | 3:25 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I for one happen to love these Olympics. If you want to focus on the bad, go ahead. If you want to say that the Olympics have no meaning because China used digitally-enhance fireworks, that too is your right. But you don't have the right not to look like a complete buffoon when you write such things.

Doug, I lost a lot of respect for you. You have exposed your true colors: an uninformed, inconsequential writer for a small, isolated, inconsequential newspaper. Doug, outside of Utah, nobody values your opinion. China will continue roaring ahead, and will soon surpass economically and in international influence, whether you approve of a few Olympic tactics or not. I am disappointed with Deseret News for this type of article. I expected much more from a church-owned newspaper. Doug, as a "journalist," you have responsibility to not just tell a story, but to tell a full and accurate story, and you have betrayed that responsiblity.

Thank you Sasha | 3:47 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Finally, someone with a true perspective. If you missed it, here's the quote form Sasha, formerly form the Soviet Union:
"Communism thrives off isolation. When a Communist country hosts the Olympics no matter what they do they dig Communism a grave. We should let them if they insist."

NevadaCoug | 3:49 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

"Better to lie and cheat to win a gold medal than to lie and cheat to invade a country."

You mean, like the lie that Tibetans are a descended from a "lost Chinese colony" as an excuse to invade and take over Tibet?

I have been astounded by how bad and biased the judging in the subjective sports has been in these Olympic games. From diving to gymnastics, the Chinese have gotten the benefit of the doubt, while people from other countries have had the full deductions applied to their scores. There is always a little bit of controversy, but when television commentators are railing on the judges, you know there is a problem.

And it's all so that China will look good.

Jerry Sloan | 4:38 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

All you slackers get back to work and stop posting on this site - you guys are worse than Ostertag...

Re:Bobbeck | 4:38 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Have you thought the real culprit here might be the folks with the dough? NBC broke even on the rights costs before the games even started, in spite of the record umpteen billion dollar price tag. And it is all because of the ad revenue they generated from sponsors who were drooling at the thought of 1.3 billion new consumers in a flush economy.

If you invested that kind of cash into the games hoping to target said 1.3 billion, and knew that a tiny fraction of that money in the form of a little extra payola to the right judges and sports organizations might ensure an extra tenth or so; and would keep said 1.3 watching, happy, and interested; would you try it?

Of course they did, because for every dime in bribes, the sponsers stand to make millions in new revenue. And as an added bonus they have the perfect patsie in a notorious Chinese government to pin it on.
It's not the chinese culture, it is the culture of greed that is the problem.

Proud of America | 5:29 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

While one cannot deny the moral decay that prevails in American society, I have been so proud of my country this past Olympics. Our athletes compete based on their own free agency and will. US athletes, have shown great humility and competitiveness against a system that seems fundamentally "rigged." The last two Olympics I was often turned off by the extreme bravado and chest pumping that took place, we seem to be exerting an effort to exercise humility and respect for our fellow countrymen and competitors. A welcome relief in comparison to Olympics of the recent past.

And while some may be lost on the emergence of the other "Big Red Machine" (China). I will personally take our system over theirs any day. China has manipulated and cheated many of their countrymen/women out of their families and any sense of freedom. Who cares if they take home more golds or medals? In a system of oppression how could you not?

I am proud to be an American and am happy with the way our athletes have represented; power to the people:)

Anonymous | 6:11 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I lived in China for years, and this article makes me sick. What a bunch of vapid generalizations. And it's not like everything he mentioned doesn't happen right here in America. We're not that different, and the Chinese people, as a whole, are far more polite and considerate of peoples' needs.

GoodGuyGary | 6:27 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I like Distrubed said, anti-Chinese is the word.

Back in the cold war days, everything from American is anti-Soviet. How many Hollywood movies were made to make Soviet look bad? Rocky can beat a 6'5" man just because he is American and he is Russian? Right now, when China becomes the power house of the 21st century, everything is anti-Chinese.

Again, please just go out and see the world. Doug, you better do the same.

I Can't Leave it Alone | 7:40 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I rarely get bothered by an article this much. I have seen a side of China I'm sure Doug Robinson has not. It is such an unfair and inaccurate picture. It shakes me up. This is China's well-deserved time to shine. I really don't know if Doug gets this. China lived under the worst tyranny and poverty imaginable under Mao Zedong. 30 years later, look how far they have come. They deserve so much celebration, so much encouragement, and validation. Please, Doug, focus on what they have done, what their contribution has been to our world. It is no small thing. It really is awful of you, Doug, to sully this occasion--which is absolutely remarkable--with your cheap jibberish.

China | 7:49 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I live in a country right next (geographically) to China. China is changing! They are becoming very good capitolists these days and their country's economy is booming!The average Chinese person eats better and lives better than their ancestors ever did. Thanks to America buying most of their goods. Yes, communism still rules but it is a much less restricted communism. On the other hand, when they typically look at America, they see people here (hollywood) who take freedom of speach and other freedoms to the point of corruption and degredation (Porn drug abuse..etc). This they want to avoid! Bottom line:Freedom in China is increasing because of Capitolism. Give them time and they will dominate the world economically and in technological advancement! They will do so with capitolism! Ronald Reagan was right,"communism will eventually be found on the ash heap of history." This is bad news for socialists (Democrats) in America!

Ross Miller | 7:51 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I attended the China-Sweden soccer match in Tianjin, along with 37,000+ largely middle class families, couples, and students and hundreds of young Olympic volunteers. Their intense pride in their country was obvious throughout the match. It was a great sporting experience in a world class venue. Despite hassles with Chinese Olympic security and an often impenetrable bureaucracy, I found the Chinese to be friendly, proud, and hopeful that visitors would leave with a favorable impression. I also found them to be surprisingly candid and critical about the sacrifices made to host the Olympics, and about the difficulties of living in modern China. My Chinese acquaintances were by far the most severe critics of the Olympic opening ceremonies and other organizational shortcomings. I canï¿½t recall meeting anyone who thought that the sacrifices were not going to be worth the effort in the long run. It is inaccurate to dismiss the recent tremendous changes between China in the past twenty years as the product of a mindless communist evil empire. These Olympics signal the formal emergence of Chinaï¿½s unique brand of capitalistic communism onto the worldï¿½s stage and we in the West need to be prepared to deal and compete with it.

TRUTH AGAIN!! | 8:31 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

So many of you are missing the point!!

Did Mr. Doug say that China is evil? ANYONE!?!? AGAIN... THINK about this question...

Well, for those who still can't figure it out, I will tell you. NO, HE DIDN'T!

He didn't say that the Olympics is evil either. He only commented on the direction it is taking WHICH ANY intelligent person can NOT deny; he also talked about one other thing.

He didn't say CHINA is evil. Olympians are evil... he didn't even say that people who support china are wrong. HE ONLY SAID that The GOVERNMENT of China is doing things which corrupt the games and that others have been.

You all say "Leave politics out of it, or I KNOW that China is better"

This is IDIOTIC thinking because CHINA is the entity who is FORCING politics into it and destroying the agency of man. CHINA is NOT better. There are amazing things, people, activities, etc in China and NO ONE is saying otherwise. But when THEY ARE beating people, they ARE cheating and it isn't just "the media" reporting it but IT IS VISIBLE then there is something wrong.

I can't believe people are ignorant & blind here.

kathyn | 8:38 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I think as Americans, we need to extend a hand of fellowship and friendship to our Chinese brothers and sisters. Yes, their gov't is still oppressive, but slowly things are changing. The Olympics is a very good opportunity for us to get a glimpse of China and see that the people are not so different from us. They love their families, they work hard and they love their country with all of its warts, just like we love America.

I have enjoyed the Games, even with the judging controversies, et al, because I feel a sense of the goodness of the people there. I do not blame them for the policies of their gov't. Hopefully they do not blame us for ours.

Scott | 8:44 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Quit whining and suck it up!

Ernest T. Bass | 8:44 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Sounds an awful lot like a local organization who puts on a good facade but in reality has no substance.

kk | 8:52 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

What a whiny article!

I'm not crazy about the Chinese government and especially the communism, but try understanding the cultural differences for a moment. Perception of honor seems paramount for them. On the flip side, Gotta love the gorgeous women who escort the atheletes around though.

Also, when we whine about how much dough the Chinese spent to build all this stuff, it was actually all of us spending our economic stimulus package at Walmart that built it!

Put the Olympics to bed. | 9:22 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I would record hours of the Olympics and watch about 15% of that. It is great to watch countries compete against each other, but they do this every year. I think that maybe the media needs to not glorify the Olympics as much and start pushing the world competitions. I love to watch skating, or gymnastics or swimming, but why do I have to wait four years for this? I skipped the opening ceremony, my interest was in the athletes. I agree that it is a waste of money, that usually never is recovered. And I find it most annoying that athletes were forced to compete in a very polluted place. I also find that there is too much manipulation when it is all based on one country for everything.

Groovy Guy | 10:12 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Amen, Brother Doug! It's nice to have someone step up and tell it like it is.

Anonymous | 10:12 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

1. Get rid of the judged events, they've all become a complete joke.

2. Way too much gymnastics in the olympics, get rid of the team competition, and get rid of the all around. Their are seemingly a hundred medals in gymnastics alone--and it's a judged event, so it's not only overdone, the judging is completely bogus.

3. I'm ok with a communist country being awarded the olympics, but for crying out loud at least have the judging be fair. The Chinese girl on the balance beam, tonight, was a complete disaster, fell off the beam, had numerous balance checks, was out of rythm and one of the worst performances I have seen--and she gets a 15.2. How absurd.

Rose | 10:17 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Well said! It's time someone said the truth about communist China!

We should not turn a blind eye to China's disregard for the inalienable rights of mankind!

K Miller | 10:31 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Well written article! This article points out the very true fact that these Olympics are a cover for a country that makes no qualms about mistreating it's own people for the sake of the government elite. It's a shame that the IOC didn't stand up for what's right and make a statement that such a cruel, repressive government cannot be awarded the Olympic Games; an event that is supposed to celebrate freedom and fair play. Allowing China to have the Olympics is a black eye on the IOC.

Dick of the NW | 10:48 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

One poster states China is successful because it elevates the individual. The other states China is successful because it uses the collective. Lets face it folks, the integrity of the individual is supreme. In the USA, it is the individual who works with teachers who translate potential into performance. In China, the govt. says it is in your family's interest to train for this sport and you will be rewarded. In one it starts with the individual. In the other, it is from the top down.
The truth can hurt. Doug's article points to the way China gets things done. However, hopefully, in some cases the athletes will start life long friendships through the Olympic Games.

sdn | 10:49 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Bitter American. Doug, did you feel the same way when Utah was spending $2B in state and federal funds to host the 2002 Olympics? The Chinese have been dominant in these Games. Get over it.

Frank | 12:15 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008

Wow
the comments in this sound like the USA.
Torture
Taking people away.
Without Chine your country would grind to a halt.

RockOn | 1:49 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008

China is NOT a communist country.

That ship sailed years ago when the thugs in charge finally realized that collectivizing anything... first the farms... is a disaster.

The central core of communism is the "state ownership of the means of production." China no longer owns the means of production in much of the market place.

Instead, the thugs decide who gets to practice free enterprise. That is national socialism or "fascism."

Yep, that's right. China is a fascist regime. It is dangerous, corrupt and everything Doug Robinson was saying about it.

Pump and Circumstance | 2:02 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008

The nationalistic aspect to the Olympics just ruins them. Medal count? ......Pleeeese!

Happy to say I haven't watched any of this go round.

Mom in MO | 4:22 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008

I watch the games to see individual acheivement rewarded. On that score, I was so sorely disappointed, I gave up watching at all. You can't tell me there isn't a double standard, politically motivated. Races in track and field or swimming are fun because there is a finish line. But whenever there are "judges" that determine an athlete's score, it hasn't been fair in decades. I'm losing interest in the games because some people cheat, and the
"judges" allow it.

Athletes | 6:53 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008

I don't care so much about the fake fireworks or the lip-syncing girl. What I think is unfair is that China's Gold medals are all in subjective sports where there are judges. I feel bad for all the athletes that train so hard and are denied a medal because of an illegal 13 year old girl missing baby teeth. I felt so bad for Sacrimone when she was beat out for a bronze medal by the Chinese girl who landed on her knees and STILL won a medal. The athletes are who suffer by this cheating.

Alan | 7:46 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008

The Olympics are a business, and they're entertainment ... those above all else. It would be nice if they were about athleticism and world peace, but politics and prestige are now the primary goals. But China didn't start that.

I'm glad China had the Olympics for the same reasons others have stated. BEFORE they got the Olympics, few peoeple paid attention to China's human rights record, even in the "land of the free." Now, China is in the spotlight ... and the hot seat. People from around the world are in China now, not only bringing their cameras, but their IDEAS. It's a good thing.

Having a permanent site for the Olympics would be horrible. It's a wonderful thing to share the games with the world. That's a significant part of the experience.

Those of us who don't like the IOC's choices need to remember that the IOC is a business, based on the American model. They can choose whatever host nation they wish, for any reason they wish. It's up to us to decide if we will support the Olympics with our viewership. And apparently, we do.

Ray | 7:52 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008

Welcome to the Nit Pickers Club Doug.Are you surprised that the Chinese want to put on a good face? Doesn't everyone? And what a beautiful face it is!!...and no more fake than what you see all day every day on TV. Surprised that they are Communist acting like Communists?? We knew they were Communists when they were awarded the games.This event is about sports not politics.And what difference would it make even if they chose to spend half their Gross National Product on the olympics? It is theirs to spend and we are all the beneficiaries....great preparation, beautiful venues,spectacular opening,wonderful young people showing genuine national pride (something we have been running short on lately),marvelous athletics,and excellent coverage. That all adds up to a solid 10 on my scorecard.

to Andrew | 8:45 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008

I actually, have always respected China's cultural history. But lately, I wonder what they have become. Speaking with people who have lived paints a strange picture. For me, the thing that speaks loudest about their country was the faked singer. The singer was cute and adorable. To hear the leadership of China explain themselves that she did not look perfect made me sick.

Bear Rug | 9:23 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008

Doug, you're right on the money. I also wonder how many people are going hungry, without shelter and basic human needs, so that Mao's world can show-off. I find it interesting that people say that China has come a long way, but every night I watch Bob Costas give his little schpeil, and guess whose picture is in the background . . . Chairman Mao. If pictures of this tyrant are still displayed, I don't think that China has come a long way. The whole revolution, headed by Mao, was to destroy the culture that was so unique to China. No wonder it was called the "Cultural Revolution." The temples, the architecture, the costumes, . . . all of the things that we have seen during the Olympics are a big fraud. Communism and fascism are the norm in China. People go to work for 12 to 16 hours a day, in polluted air. They are told what job they are to have. They are told how to think, speak, and act.

Bear Rug | 9:40 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008

I still can't get past the fact that Chairman Mao's picture STILL "graces" many places in Beijing. Mao was a tyrant and an opportunist. Many, in this blog, have stated that they like China's culture and remind us that it has existed for over 2,000 years. May I remind them, Mao's revolution was an attempt to DESTROY that culture, to bring a fascist government into being. Mao murdered MILLIONS of his own people; intellects, teachers, doctors, etc. The whole intent was to bring China to a revolution in culture--to "do away with the old, and bring in the new." The old culture is hardly recognized anymore.

A little gratitude | 10:06 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008

I have to respectfully disagree with your comments. You make China sound like it's simply a different place like Germany or Canada, with a culture, that even though it's not what's accepted in the US, it's okay.

China has one of the worst records for human rights in it's history. Their government thinks nothing of beatings, and tortures, and other acts that would be condemned if they were to happen here in the United States. I don't even need to mention the horrific oppression of Tibet, but suffice it say there's a reason it's "Free Tibet", and not "Keep them ground under the heel of the Chinese for as long as possible".

Furthermore, China has opened their doors, yes, a carefully coreographed, and politicized crack to make China appear great and wonderful. Why else would the Chinese have such a well documented crackdown on media, where they're allowed, what they're allowed to cover, etc....

I agree with EVERYTHING Doug has written in this article.

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