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Texas widens FLDS probe
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Gal50 | 1:03 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
If I remember correctly, there were about 75 men on the ranch. Some were too
young to practice bigamy and so they were with only one wife. There was an older
man with one wife too. I thought 1/3 were young monogamous men and 2/3rd's
or 50 were polygamous men. If so, there would be enough men. Furthermore, it
seems there were 100-150 women practicing bigamy. Obviously, they didn't
have two spouses, but they participated in a relationship that was bigamous. Of
these women, there were about 50 who were first wives and it doesn't seem
like they could be charged with bigamy. And then there were 50-100 women who
made the relationship a bigamous relationship. Generally, it seems that the
gender on the short end of the stick isn't charged with anything. The
twenty cases of statutory rape would be the ten girls plus 10 of the possibly 30
women. Fifteen of the women have a child that could indicate statutory rape.
Perhaps there was a statute of limitations that expired on many of the cases or
there isn't enough evidence on some of the older women.
awesomeron | 4:27 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
It is only fair the it is just the Males that are charged.
That�s because the Males are in charge and the Women are
under their control. Even if the Women stood by while their daughters where
married off to old men, who already had wife�s, there was
little that they could do about it. Who would they report it to and where would
they go. Arizona and Utah had already given their answer that they where not
going to do much about the situation. In short the females where stuck in their
situation. To quote my now dead stepmother. "It was their lot in life"
It was the men that did the forced marriages, did the rapes, statutory or other
wise, and fathered the Children out of legal wedlock. Also in some cases not
only rape or statuary rape, but incest as well. As in the case of the 13 year
old being forced to merry her 19 year old cousin, and in the end being
repeatedly raped by him. The picture Jeff�s tongue kissing
the 12 year old girl he supposedly married and then raped still grosses me out
and it takes a lot to do that.
Texas aims to destroy them | 4:53 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
It's easy to see what the state is doing. They know they can't win in
court, so they're going to arrest as many as possible, giving them all the
maximum bail, hoping to drive the FLDS into bankruptcy. The first set of FLDS
men made a mistake by turning themselves in. If they keep thinking this is a
normal prosecution where they can prove themselves innocent, they're in for
a disaster.
Comments continue below
nosugrof | 5:23 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
This witch hunt is getting out of hand. Its time the good people of thid country
demsnd a stop to this.
slowly but surely | 6:33 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Slowly but surely the wheels of justice turn. Very predictable.
transplant | 6:37 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Women are not going to have equality until we take responsibiity for our lives.
That includes taking the consequences for all our adult decisions. There is
some sympathy for the fact that the FLDS women were brain washed from birth and
coerced at best into plural marriages. However, as adults,they have to be held
responsible. Under the law, they are not children. It's a problem so so
many women still have in this country. We are not victims anymore.
Selective Prosecution | 6:39 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
These FLDS don't legally marry more than one wife. The second wife is a
marriage in their eyes only. How can they be charged with bigamy?
If the govt, Utah or Texas is going to charge them for relations with a woman other than their legal wife, it seems like selective prosecution to go after them and not people in the rest of society that do this.
Equal proctection under the law?
I don't understand why these people are not being charged and sued by the respective states for abandoning their young sons before they are ready to take care of themselves. This is wrong and should be illegal if it isn't already, also it throws to the rest of society the burden of providing charity for these young men.
I wish the FLDS would get a clue and start acting like decent citizens. It should be obvious one ought not abandon their own children.
If the govt, Utah or Texas is going to charge them for relations with a woman other than their legal wife, it seems like selective prosecution to go after them and not people in the rest of society that do this.
Equal proctection under the law?
I don't understand why these people are not being charged and sued by the respective states for abandoning their young sons before they are ready to take care of themselves. This is wrong and should be illegal if it isn't already, also it throws to the rest of society the burden of providing charity for these young men.
I wish the FLDS would get a clue and start acting like decent citizens. It should be obvious one ought not abandon their own children.
Cats | 7:36 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Witch hunt? Texas aims to destroy them? The FLDS are blogging again this
morning trying to make the rest of us believe they are victims and that there is
a groundswell of support for them.
The only ones victimizing the FLDS are their own leaders. The States of Texas, Utah and Arizona are only doing their best to stop the crimes these people have been perpetrating on their own people for generations.
I hope the State of Texas does bankrupt them. Only a major catastrophe can put as stop to this evil. The Nazis were very sincere about what they believed. They were sure they were right. It took a World War to finally put a stop to the crimes they were committing.
Warren Jeffs has publicly stated (on tape) that he is a FALSE prophet. The FLDS people need to get a clue. They need help to get out of this sick cycle which has gone on for generations. This is their chance to get it.
The only ones victimizing the FLDS are their own leaders. The States of Texas, Utah and Arizona are only doing their best to stop the crimes these people have been perpetrating on their own people for generations.
I hope the State of Texas does bankrupt them. Only a major catastrophe can put as stop to this evil. The Nazis were very sincere about what they believed. They were sure they were right. It took a World War to finally put a stop to the crimes they were committing.
Warren Jeffs has publicly stated (on tape) that he is a FALSE prophet. The FLDS people need to get a clue. They need help to get out of this sick cycle which has gone on for generations. This is their chance to get it.
Punchline | 7:34 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Go Texas. More and more the flds is reducing itself to a national punchline, as
people see them for what they are. Harrangue them out of town, and into jail if
necessary. The rest can come back to Utah where, with a nudge and a wink,
they're accepted.
Texas Common Law Marriage | 7:35 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
It's fairly easy in Texas to be considered 'married' under common
law. Live together, consider yourself married, and present yourself as married
to others.
State statute however prescribes that even a 'common law marriage' must have a formal divorce...or else you're still married in the eyes of the State.
State statute however prescribes that even a 'common law marriage' must have a formal divorce...or else you're still married in the eyes of the State.
Disgusted with Texas | 7:42 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Bigamy in this case is nothing more than the new style "open"
marriage. These people are actually quite in vogue according to today's
morals and standards, though we tend to think of them as living in the past.
How do you prosecute people choosing to live this way when the multiple wives
are not legally married to them anyway? They are not breaking the law in this
way any more than others who have "mistresses" - known or unknown by
the first wife. Are we going to round them up too?
Mr. Parker is right, the law protects one whose husband is being deceptive and taking secret wives.
Rangers are merely trumping up charges to drain these people of any financial means they may have, paying lawyers, making bail, losing opportunities to work and generally putting them through this to justify the debacle of the child roundup. They came up with pie on their face and now they need to show they have SOMETHING and apparently there aren't enough child abusers and rapists to do the job. Looking desperate!
If they're out to clean up Texas morally, they have a huge job ahead of them but they'd better be consistent!
Mr. Parker is right, the law protects one whose husband is being deceptive and taking secret wives.
Rangers are merely trumping up charges to drain these people of any financial means they may have, paying lawyers, making bail, losing opportunities to work and generally putting them through this to justify the debacle of the child roundup. They came up with pie on their face and now they need to show they have SOMETHING and apparently there aren't enough child abusers and rapists to do the job. Looking desperate!
If they're out to clean up Texas morally, they have a huge job ahead of them but they'd better be consistent!
plankton | 7:48 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
If there is no criminal action then FLDS has nothing to fear, unless Texass
(rooted in evangelicalism) plans to persue closure of the FLDS religion. From
what weve seen and heard so far would anyone be surprised?
VegasBaby | 8:13 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
It will be interesting to see what the Feds dig up.
Sara | 8:39 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Rod Parker says its hard to see where the crime is. If it is against the law, it
is a crime. I get pulled over if i happen to go 30 in a 25 mile per hour zone.
Then I pay a steep fine for my "crime". The law is the law. The
fundamentalist way of life takes advantage of women and children. This despotism
has got to stop!
common sense | 8:48 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Im sure the FBI is interested in the Computers, and the information, income, pay
outs etc. Looks like this case is HUGE! And there were more men there than was
reported to the public, or on the bishops list.
Regardless what Rod Parker says, This isnt Utah, or Arizona, This is TEXAS!
Regardless what Rod Parker says, This isnt Utah, or Arizona, This is TEXAS!
Bigamy? | 8:56 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
What does the TEXAS law, and only the TEXAS law, say about it? In this case
that's the only thing that counts.
Comments about LFDS leaders being the ones actually responsible is right on the money. Their followers are zelots in their belief and blind following of whatever they are told by the leaders. I have learned this from experience dealing with them in the Army.
I was in Germany in the mid 1970's and there were neighborhoods and whole villages still clinging to the Nazi propaganda line. They're waiting for der fuherer to return from wherever he fled and, "He will come!" We'd drive around, or carefully through, those areas in anything that said we were Americans. There was no amount of persuasion that could change their minds.
The attitude toward any attempt to influence different thinking exhibited by either FLDS or the left over Nazi believers was very similar. I suppose it is the same with any group of zealos believers in a lifestyle.
Often in places where wrong is taught as right for 12 generations the person doesn't know what is really wrong. Such is the case with the followers of Warren Jeffs and his predecessors.
Comments about LFDS leaders being the ones actually responsible is right on the money. Their followers are zelots in their belief and blind following of whatever they are told by the leaders. I have learned this from experience dealing with them in the Army.
I was in Germany in the mid 1970's and there were neighborhoods and whole villages still clinging to the Nazi propaganda line. They're waiting for der fuherer to return from wherever he fled and, "He will come!" We'd drive around, or carefully through, those areas in anything that said we were Americans. There was no amount of persuasion that could change their minds.
The attitude toward any attempt to influence different thinking exhibited by either FLDS or the left over Nazi believers was very similar. I suppose it is the same with any group of zealos believers in a lifestyle.
Often in places where wrong is taught as right for 12 generations the person doesn't know what is really wrong. Such is the case with the followers of Warren Jeffs and his predecessors.
realitycheck | 9:02 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
good job, Texas. All the whiners on here that said Texas was spinning their
wheels are eating crow.
I totally disagree with awesomeron. Both the fathers and the mothers should be held responsible. The mothers stood by while their children were being married off to relatives and old men, and need to pay the price.
Don't say "what could they do". They could just leave. If held there, kidnapping is a serious offense and all they had to do was say so and bullies like Willie would stand back and say go ahead and go. THESE ARE THEIR CHILDREN. They should be willing to DIE for them. Instead they hand them off like a peice of meat.
Send everyone involved to jail. Even those that stood by and watched.
Now maybe the kids will have a chance at a decent future, without being brainwashed into thinking they have but one lot in life. They certainly won't be living in YFZ while their parents are in prison....
I totally disagree with awesomeron. Both the fathers and the mothers should be held responsible. The mothers stood by while their children were being married off to relatives and old men, and need to pay the price.
Don't say "what could they do". They could just leave. If held there, kidnapping is a serious offense and all they had to do was say so and bullies like Willie would stand back and say go ahead and go. THESE ARE THEIR CHILDREN. They should be willing to DIE for them. Instead they hand them off like a peice of meat.
Send everyone involved to jail. Even those that stood by and watched.
Now maybe the kids will have a chance at a decent future, without being brainwashed into thinking they have but one lot in life. They certainly won't be living in YFZ while their parents are in prison....
Nosugrof | 9:00 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
The hatemongers are still at it. They believe every wild unsubstaniated rumor.
Feminists stiil refuse to believe that women make choices that dont fit with
feminists dogma. Read the letters written by the mental heslth workers who were
brought in observe the women and children at Fort Concho. They wrote that these
showed no signs of being brainwashed or abused. Dont regard the fact that these
women dont react the way you assume they should as proof in and of itself that
they are brainwashed.
Cosmo | 9:05 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Re Cats:Just because someone does not agree with your opinion, it does not
necessarily follow that they are a member of the opposition, in this case the
FLDS.
Your equating the FLDS with Nazis, requiring WWII was a little over the top to say the least.
I might recommend caution, when stacking the wood
for the, "burning at the stake activity". Some day you may find it is you, that is to be burned.
Your equating the FLDS with Nazis, requiring WWII was a little over the top to say the least.
I might recommend caution, when stacking the wood
for the, "burning at the stake activity". Some day you may find it is you, that is to be burned.
It's about time.... | 9:24 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
We've tried to put an end to in-eqauality of all kinds in our country.
Finally, young women (and some young me) are getting their chances against
brainwashing of religion. Take notice all religions! Your
"conditioning" is not going to be put with any longer.
x | 9:25 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
What a waist of money. Who cares if men want to be with more than one women as
long as the women is of age? Can texas stop every man in the flds from marrying
more than one women? I don't think so, because the flds will just move to
another location. Why should texas waist tons of money that they don't have
for something silly? I never read any thing about a better education for the
flds or charging people with their children not getting a proper education, but
the flds men get charged with bigamy, even though they can only have one legal
wife. Its called an affair and most of the wives know about each other before
marrying the men.
SarahTX2 | 9:35 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Yes, Mr. Parker, you do have to take it as it comes. That's all the FLDS
can do after their foolhardy leader made his ill-advised decision to move this
crowd to Texas, and his ill-informed crowd was okay with doing whatever
they're told.
It still remains inexplicable as to how any polygamist group would decide to call Texas their home after the turmoil and anguish at Waco.
It still remains inexplicable as to how any polygamist group would decide to call Texas their home after the turmoil and anguish at Waco.
PITA | 9:43 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
The basics: YFZ compound is within boundaries of the US State of Texas. Texas
laws apply.
Nonsense hatemongering from out of state and outside the US does not apply to reality in Texas. It may be that welfare, education and healthcare budget excesses in UT aided in keeping the laws on the books from being prosecuted there, in combination with genealogy.
Nonsense hatemongering from out of state and outside the US does not apply to reality in Texas. It may be that welfare, education and healthcare budget excesses in UT aided in keeping the laws on the books from being prosecuted there, in combination with genealogy.
Grandpa Phil | 9:45 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
awesomeone, while you say it takes a lot to gross you out, it obviously does not
take a lot fake you out. Ho Hum, more accusations without the facts followed by
the standard rhetoric of the mindless camp followers. Let's hope that the
authorities have their udcks in order more than they did when they had "all
of those minor girls in the custody" who turned out to be adults. I have
ABSOLUTELY NO CONFIDENCE in the Texas authorities. I'll sit back and wait
for the FACTS to come out and see how many actual convictions they get.
some utah guy | 10:01 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
So here is my take on the legal aspects. There is a right to the free exercise
of the religion. This simply means that a person in America has the right to
believe what they want, but that their actions are subject to law. So there are
no legal bigamists cases in Texas as far as I know. Do the individuals have the
right to believe that they are married (or have some kind of spiritual union)?
Probably yes a case could be made like this. If this argument were to hold up
in court then the court would have to look at actions rather than beliefs. So is
cohabitation illegal if this bigamy charge involves adults? Obviously it is
illegal if it involves a minor. But I think adults in a "religious"
consensual relationship could apply to the 14th amendment right to privacy. So
as long as the relationships involves adults and the adults have not asked for a
state recognized marriage license or certificate then I don't think they
will get a conviction that would be upheld by the US supreme court.
Jerry W | 10:10 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
One of the real problems in this situation is that of human genetics. Having
children with this small of a base is bound to cause problems not only for the
here and now but for future generations. The FLDS seem to be think this problem
will just go away if they continue to be faithful. I have news for them, it
won't. Another side of this issue. Marriage is a contract between two
people. When a contract is illegal it is invalid. This brings up the point is
there in fact a marriage between the suceeding wives and the man. If not then
they are just living together and procreating without the benefit of marriage as
many other people in this land are doing outside of the FLDS. There are many
difficult questions to be answered here.
Cats | 10:08 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
To Cosmo: Whoa. I must have really hit home.
These poor people are victims of generations of control and being given nothing but what their leaders wanted them to hear. The've lived in an insular environment which has been getting weirder and more insular as the years go by.
Warren Jeffs is a fraud and has admitted it. Unfortunately, some of his followers are still in denial about it.
These people need help and sometimes that comes in the form of a serious catastrophe. Just as the Nazis needed a catastrohe to stop their crimes. The FLDS need a total crash in order to stop their crimes and give them a chance to get out of this sick cycle.
Go Texas. Utah and Arizona are also trying to do what they can although it is much harder because the sheer numbers are so much greater. I hope help from the Feds will finally get this mess cleaned up.
These people need a chance for a real life.
These poor people are victims of generations of control and being given nothing but what their leaders wanted them to hear. The've lived in an insular environment which has been getting weirder and more insular as the years go by.
Warren Jeffs is a fraud and has admitted it. Unfortunately, some of his followers are still in denial about it.
These people need help and sometimes that comes in the form of a serious catastrophe. Just as the Nazis needed a catastrohe to stop their crimes. The FLDS need a total crash in order to stop their crimes and give them a chance to get out of this sick cycle.
Go Texas. Utah and Arizona are also trying to do what they can although it is much harder because the sheer numbers are so much greater. I hope help from the Feds will finally get this mess cleaned up.
These people need a chance for a real life.
upnorthguy | 10:12 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
I don't live in Utah anymore, but I am LDS. I grew up and went to college
in Southern Utah. While attending college in the 60's I went to school
with people from Colorado City, so I got a pretty good idea of their lifestyle.
It was not uncommon to have an underage girl admitted to the hospital in town
with complications of childbirth and her "husband" was in his fifties.
The people in Colorado City practised homopathic medicine, so they gave birth
mostly in their community unless complications set in.
Now, if I admitted a girl under the age of 18 to the hospital and she was giving birth to my child, how soon do you think it would take the authorites to be involved? It's a crime anyway you want to look at it. Relations with a minor is against the law, in Utah, Arizona and Texas and everywhere else in America. I applaud the state of Texas for taking a stand against this crime, something the states of Utah and Arizona should have dones years ago.
Now, if I admitted a girl under the age of 18 to the hospital and she was giving birth to my child, how soon do you think it would take the authorites to be involved? It's a crime anyway you want to look at it. Relations with a minor is against the law, in Utah, Arizona and Texas and everywhere else in America. I applaud the state of Texas for taking a stand against this crime, something the states of Utah and Arizona should have dones years ago.
Save them by destroying them | 10:14 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
"These people need a chance for a real life."
-----------
And you propose what, exactly? Drive them off their land, destroy their religion, and throw them in jail for 20 to 99 years?
-----------
And you propose what, exactly? Drive them off their land, destroy their religion, and throw them in jail for 20 to 99 years?
re - "x 9:25am" | 10:21 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
I don't know where you've been for the last few months, but this has
absolutely nothing to do with polygamy. Not sure why you still think it does.
That's just one of the ways Texas is going after them, but that's
certainly not the issue.
think about it - it'll come to you.
think about it - it'll come to you.
JND | 10:23 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Grandpa Phil,
You wrote: "I have ABSOLUTELY NO CONFIDENCE in the Texas authorities."
Well, I do; my wife is one of them. When the facts come out, there will be plenty of convictions.
Go Texas!
You wrote: "I have ABSOLUTELY NO CONFIDENCE in the Texas authorities."
Well, I do; my wife is one of them. When the facts come out, there will be plenty of convictions.
Go Texas!
re save them by destroying them | 10:28 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
YES - THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. They earned it when they forcibly raped 12 yr
olds. And I'm more for the 99 yrs than I am for the 20 yrs.
and they don't have a religion. They have a little sex camp that they call a church.
and they don't have a religion. They have a little sex camp that they call a church.
common sense | 10:32 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Wasting money? Texas doesnt consider it wasting money. When you have people
willfully breaking laws, committing felonies as a way of life, its worth every
dime it takes to put them in prison.
Actual Reality | 10:34 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
The singer Akon publically admits to practicing polygamy, lives and travels
throughout the U.S. and there are no charges against him. Hugh Hefner lives with
3 women that act as wives, even if not legally declared such. John Edwards
allegedly fathered a child with a woman not his wife. Considering the
production of a child, he too could be considered common law bigamist. There
will also not be any charges filed in all likelihood. Apparently our society
allows for mistresses and families produced with that mistress but heaven forbid
the FLDS do so with consent acknowledging them as wives without legal recourse.
realitycheck | 10:39 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
there's grandpa phil, still in denial. Did you really say "more
accusations without the facts"? I think the facts will come out in court
rather than in a newspaper.
You still don't get it, do you? These people stand for that which the US people are totally against - the abuse and brainwashing of our youth. It won't be stood for and the only ones shouting about how unfair it is are the FLDS and a handful of people that either haven't thought it through or have some other agenda. No normal person would be alright with a parent forcing their child to marry thier uncle or stepfather. No one with any kind of conscience would be ok with parents forcing their children into a life of solitude and repression.
No one in their right mind would be ok with little girls being forced to have sex with old men, or throwing out their young boys. Even arranged marriages in this day and age give most people the creeps.
These people are going to pay a steep price for the pain and anguish placed upon their children for the last 20+ years. I hope everyone involved goes to jail.
You still don't get it, do you? These people stand for that which the US people are totally against - the abuse and brainwashing of our youth. It won't be stood for and the only ones shouting about how unfair it is are the FLDS and a handful of people that either haven't thought it through or have some other agenda. No normal person would be alright with a parent forcing their child to marry thier uncle or stepfather. No one with any kind of conscience would be ok with parents forcing their children into a life of solitude and repression.
No one in their right mind would be ok with little girls being forced to have sex with old men, or throwing out their young boys. Even arranged marriages in this day and age give most people the creeps.
These people are going to pay a steep price for the pain and anguish placed upon their children for the last 20+ years. I hope everyone involved goes to jail.
Abuse and bondage | 10:39 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
"And you propose what, exactly?"
Prosecute the leaders who have deceived these poor people for generations.
Throw the child abusers in jail for a long, long time.
Free the women and children from the brainwashing.
-----------------------
It's time the FLDS learned that they are not above the law. If they want to live an illegal lifestyle, that's their choice, but with that choice comes accountability for the laws they break.
Prosecute the leaders who have deceived these poor people for generations.
Throw the child abusers in jail for a long, long time.
Free the women and children from the brainwashing.
-----------------------
It's time the FLDS learned that they are not above the law. If they want to live an illegal lifestyle, that's their choice, but with that choice comes accountability for the laws they break.
Women and children too | 10:52 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
"Free the women and children from the brainwashing."
-----------------
But the state appears ready to charge the women too. And if they do, they could be locked up for 20 years and the kids sent into foster care. Is this what you had in mind?
-----------------
But the state appears ready to charge the women too. And if they do, they could be locked up for 20 years and the kids sent into foster care. Is this what you had in mind?
re Women and children too | 11:13 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Yes - it is what we had in mind. The mothers broke the law and worse yet, they
broke their promise and duty as parents to protect their children. They deserve
what they get.
realitycheck | 12:27 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008
I mostly like the statement that "the computers were turned over to the FBI
for their ongoing investigation."
The show has barely started. Got your popcorn yet, zxcvbnm? Finally something is being done to free these kids. It's too bad the parents care more about a pedophile's directives than they care about their own children. They brought ALL of this upon themselves.
As they say in the Opympics - "let the games begin".
The show has barely started. Got your popcorn yet, zxcvbnm? Finally something is being done to free these kids. It's too bad the parents care more about a pedophile's directives than they care about their own children. They brought ALL of this upon themselves.
As they say in the Opympics - "let the games begin".
John Pack Lambert | 12:31 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008
It seems the new line is "Kill the polygamist, save the woman".
Reminds me of the old line "Kill the Indian, save the Man."
commonsense | 12:34 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008
What Religion? They dont have church services, They are registered as a religion
or even a church. they are registered as a Corporate LLC.
Who says they dont have enough evidence to prove bigamy charges? How do you know, that since most of the men with wives are older than 30, that they didnt have ONE marriage license in Utah or Arizona and One Marriage license in Texas? What if they had 3 marriage licenses? One to one wife in ARizona, ONe in Utah and ONe in Texas?
Come on people,,, THINK!!!
Who says they dont have enough evidence to prove bigamy charges? How do you know, that since most of the men with wives are older than 30, that they didnt have ONE marriage license in Utah or Arizona and One Marriage license in Texas? What if they had 3 marriage licenses? One to one wife in ARizona, ONe in Utah and ONe in Texas?
Come on people,,, THINK!!!
hey | 12:32 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008
The only time they broke their duty as parents was when they let CPS take them--
go read up on the Fort Concho reports, truly terrible and demoralizing, it will
make you sick. I can't believe that happened in America. No matter who
they are, that was wrong to treat the innocent women and children like that.
Texas should be ashamed of that.
John Pack Lambert | 12:38 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008
To the 10:28 commentor,
You are right that if Warren Jeffs did have sexual relations with a 12-year-old he should go to jail.
How ever your claim of "forceable rape" has no basis in fact. That the 12-year-old was incabable of true consent I accept, but that there was forcible actions I do not accept.
There is no evidence that physical force was used in any of these cases or that rape would exist if we have a lower age of consent.
What the penalty should be for statutory rape I do not know, but make sure you accuse people of the actual crimes and stop manufacturing accusations.
You are right that if Warren Jeffs did have sexual relations with a 12-year-old he should go to jail.
How ever your claim of "forceable rape" has no basis in fact. That the 12-year-old was incabable of true consent I accept, but that there was forcible actions I do not accept.
There is no evidence that physical force was used in any of these cases or that rape would exist if we have a lower age of consent.
What the penalty should be for statutory rape I do not know, but make sure you accuse people of the actual crimes and stop manufacturing accusations.
ExProf | 1:21 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Texas is just trying to save face, after running around like chickens with their
heads cut off! The FLDS simply chose the wrong state to practice such cultural
diversity. Should have stuck with Utah and Arizona, where at least there's
some history to hide behind. Bigamy, indeed! The men should be given medals for
putting up with such large "families."
LottieDa | 2:11 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Texas bigamy law: An individual commits the offense of bigamy if (1) he is
legally married and he (A) purports to marry or does marry a person other than
his spouse in this state or any other state...(B)or, lives with a person other
than his spouse in this state under the appearance of being married;
This applies to men and to women who live a man under the appearance of being married when she knows that he is already legally married.
This is normally a 3rd degree felony, but can be a 2nd deg. felony if one of the parties is 16 or a 1st deg. felony if one of the parties is younger than 16.
This law obviously does not apply to "affairs" and/or "mistresses".
This applies to men and to women who live a man under the appearance of being married when she knows that he is already legally married.
This is normally a 3rd degree felony, but can be a 2nd deg. felony if one of the parties is 16 or a 1st deg. felony if one of the parties is younger than 16.
This law obviously does not apply to "affairs" and/or "mistresses".
One Wonders | 2:45 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Are they taking care to protect the confidential nature of some of the evidence
they collected in the raid?
Anonymous | 2:50 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008
This 70 number was what they were looking at in April. We don't know how
many open cases there are now. If you remember, CPS and Angie Voss stated that
there were 20 mothers who had children while under 18, but that not all of them
were underage now. Some of those mothers are now in their late 20's and
early 30's hence Texas doesn't have jurisdiction (baby wasn't
made in Texas). That is where the 20 number comes from and I am sure the 50
bigamy charges stem from the bishop's list.
To lottieda | 4:08 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Yes, I understand that the law does not apply to affairs or mistresses, but the
real question is why? Why is a man that acknowledges commitment to a woman bad
while adultery is acceptable? Why is a woman deemed nuts for giving permission
to her husband to take another wife, but acceptable for a husband to sneak
behind her back catching who knows what? Why is Akon, the celebrity, permitted
while the FLDS have their children removed. Nope sorry, most FLDS did not have
knowledge nor allowed for underage sex so please no longer use that as an
excuse. The events were isolated. SO why does John Edwards get away with
having a second family deemed acceptable but monogamous partners that happen to
be FLDS have their children removed?
upnorthguy | 5:47 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Oh come on people, especially To lottieda; John Edwards or any other man or
woman that has an affair can't be compared to these people having sexual
relations with underage children. John Edwards had an affair with a woman close
to his own age; that doesn't constitute sending him to jail. There has
been numerous teachers all over the country getting caught having relations with
some of their students and they are going to jail for it. The whole problem has
been with these people is they allow underage sex. I don't care if they
have 55 wives, as long as they are all over 18 years old. That's 54 more
than I'd want to have! And yes, I know about what they do because I have
family involved in the Short Creek group.
some guy | 6:15 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008
To lottieda 4:08pm: You ask some very difficult questions. The law says what it
says. You have to go back to the minutes for the legislature session to see if
you can gleen the reason for why the law is stated the way it is. What exact
behavior is being regulated? Why? What is the compelling interest that Texas has
in regulating the behavior. I doubt they had any concept of consensual bigamy
when they wrote the law. Parker states that the bigamy laws are used to protect
against fraud in cases where one spouse does not know about the other spouse. I
hope the law will not punish men who care for multiple families while turning a
blind eye to rogue men involved in multiple affairs. It does seem backwards at
times.
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