Deseret News | Reader comments: Gay support group lists requests to LDS Church

Reader comments
Gay support group lists requests to LDS Church

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Extortion | 12:51 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

This sounds like a list of demands. And it sounds pretty one-sided. If the group gets this set of demands fulfilled, what next? Ultimately I believe their goal is to get church endorsement of the gay lifestyle.

RE: Extortion | 4:04 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

That is exactly what crossed my mind when I read this article. It was totally conflicted the whole foundation of their faith and I don't think LDS Church will ever bend their beliefs around this kind of practices they've been requesting. I would be shocked if LDS Church would change it. Just one thing... mothers of gay children would need to understand is that they are always welcome in the Church since I've met a handful of them. They are wonderful mothers and should not be condemned if they're doing their part as a good mother. It isn't their fault that they have these children. God bless their hearts for being a loving mother, no matter what their childen's choices are.

Anonymous | 5:01 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

How do these people keep getting so much press?

Comments continue below

Mayhem Mike | 7:52 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

AFFIRMATION, here's MY demand: Get in step with the fact that the LORD'S plan is that a MAN and WOMAN (not a man and man or woman and woman) marry and try and rear a righteous family in harmony with His commandments. Just accept the fact that "Adam and Eve" conform to this ideal (not "Adam and Steve") and that same sex attraction, while not a sin, is an aberration.

Presumptuous | 8:00 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

Extremely assuming views of the group that the LDS Church will change core beliefs. We've heard enough from the group, time to get it out of the news.

Tired | 8:56 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

I don't ever remember learning in Sunday School that the Lord does things 'our' way. I had LDS gay friends in SLC, when I lived there, and they were content with knowing they were attracted to same sex, but according to their faith, they could not live the sexual lifestyle and stay 'active'. They put their faith BEFORE their human desires. This Affirmation group IS just looking for a way to get the church (NOT the Lord) to go with the flow of society. The Lord will not be told what to do.

And what is this about talking to mothers???!! Mothers, fathers, human beings can make their own choices on how to handle things - FREE AGENCY. Since when do we TELL anyone what to say to their children? Guidelines, maybe, but ?? This group just wants attention.......... SO TIRED of this.

Overwhelming | 8:56 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

Affirmation understands what being gay is like much better than do other members of the LDS church. Why not listen to requests (not demands as has been stated here).

The above posts show exactly why more compassion is needed and not less.......

We fear what we do not understand.

Leverage?? | 9:05 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

Alright so they made their demands public. What are they offering on their side? Do they even have a position to make demands?

Have.... | 9:04 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

a church General Authority speak at their convention? Yeah.........right......What is the likelihood of that happening?.....Let's see.....NEVER?

Ron | 9:11 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

Some people have strong tendency's toward alcohol. Others toward pornograpy.
Let's also have the church make a statement that these things are not sin, but just lifestyle choices, and that their mothers are not the blame. Come on... we are all individuals with our own agency. Some of the best mom's in the world have kids who make serious bad choices, and some of the worst mom's have kids who turn out wonderfully. It helps to be taught good values but we are who we are. We have within us the power to change but many are unwilling.That's why we are here. To see if we have within us the power to overcome our weaknesses and become better.

Hey Affirmation... | 9:25 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

You are forgetting to put the key core issue in your demands:

We would like the church to accept our life-style and teach it that it's a God Sanctioned, normal life...

Isn't that your ultimate goal?

Well, Good Luck....

Trials | 9:51 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

We all have trials in life but most people don't whine and make a public spectacle of themselves over it. I have some health problems that prohibit me from doing some things I would like to do - but I don't make an issue of it; I don't expect everyone and every organization to change their attitudes to make me feel comfortable - I deal with it. So if you are gay by choice or some perceived circumstances, "Man Up" and deal with it. People are getting tired of your agenda driven whining.

Matthew | 9:53 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

I won't presume to guess what Affirmation's objectives are beyond what they've stated. It would be a VERY good gesture on their part to offer to state categorically that sexual relations outside of marriage are a sin and that marriage is intended by God to be between and male and female. Until they are willing to take that position, then their requests are one-sided and leave open the question as to what their full set of objective is.

If they "affirm" the Lords standards and plan, then their credibility will soar.

Michael | 9:56 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

It's not about fear, or about not understanding. Thats a cop-out used to ridicule those who do not believe what you want them to. Not agreeing with you or endorsing a gay (which is often fair to say very promiscuous lifestyle) is not an issue of fear or lack of understanding at all. It's the courage to stand up against the whims of society and pressures of worldly culture and say no. I will not go with the flow for the sake of being hip, cool, or so-called modern. I will stand for what is right not what is popular. Not in a hateful way as we all know we need to love and have compassion for each other. That does not mean we have to agree to or be a part of other's sinful choices. We can hate the sin and love the person at the same time. I can only hope the same for myself, I may sin but I hope for understanding and compassion as I learn to overcome them not ridicule or hatred, or fear of those who face any specific sin, that in itself would be a sin on your part.

Phoebe | 10:18 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

I love the way many of the posters presume to know exactly what God wants. It would be cool, wouldn't it, to have a personal pipeline to the Almighty? I don't remember Jesus himself being so pompous....

Gay | 10:27 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

I don't support Affrimation's actions but I longer attend church either. I no longer support any church who tells me who I can love or how I can express my love.

re: Phoebe | 10:35 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

Actually many including the pharisees thought Jesus to be incredibly pompous. He was an uneducated poor nobody wandering through city from city telling everyone how off course their rules and laws were. Laws that had been set up by learned men for decades upon decades.

Not that that really coincides with either side on these message boards. There needs to be a bit more understanding on both ends. (and by both sides I mean Affirmation and those showing malice toward those with homosexual tendancies)

To: Phoebe | 10:42 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

I know what God wants, I listen to a living Prophet, President Monson now, and he is the mouthpiece of God. I believe that all issues have room for discussion, but when the Prophet speaks, that is the voice I am going to listen to. As my husband lay on his deathbed, the last year of his life, he did a farewell video to his family. His voice was weak and he could barely talk, he said "listen to the Prophet, if you do, you will never go wrong".

I have two friends that I would suspect have same sex attractions, one is a male one is a female, they are in their mid-50's and have never married. Both of them are strong active members of the church and I know that this life is just a short time and a proving time. These two have proven themselves by abstaining and I do not doubt that they will be rewarded in the eternities. I am not going to take 80 years on earth to blow 80 billion years plus of happiness. Same sex people need to trust in the Lord, we all do in whatever challenges we face in life.

Dru | 10:49 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

As a white heterosexual, monogomous male raising 4 children with the help of a stay at home mom; I have some demands (or requests) to make of my own. First, I want the church to tell me life is fair. If a member of the First Pres. could do that in confrence, that would be great. Why is it that when a group of people who live outside the Lords plan what to change everyone else to ease the consciousness of a few?

re: Phoebe | 10:55 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

It would be far too arrogant to presume to know what God wants, and it would be undeniably great to have a pipeline to the Almighty...Pres Monson seems like a perfect candidate as he already fulfills that roll.
The Church made a stand with a Proclomation to the World that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God. God has also made himself quite clear when he said that the natural man is an enemy to God. We can only try to pass the trials of this life by putting off our own carnal natures, whether it is a homosexual lifestyle, an addiction to porn, or drugs, or promiscuity. They all mean we are letting our own bodies, not our minds and spirits, control our behavior. That would be the ultimate goal wouldn't it, becoming more like Jesus, or God? That can only happen when we submit ourselves to the word that he has given us, put off the natural man and do our best to follow in the path that he has laid before our feets. I believe that path started with a Man and a Woman.

I want to meet too! | 11:20 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

...and ask the general authorities to affirm their stance on different sex attraction, and how we shouldn't cave into those feelings and commit adultry, and fornication.

Jon | 11:24 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

I fail to understand why any human being would want to be recognized by a religion that clearly doesn't want them. They should start their own religious group like gay/lesbian Catholics did by forming "Dignity". Raise your self-esteem and leave the hurtful, angry bigots to their own demise.

God is love and they are not.

To Pheobe | 11:48 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

"it would be cool to have a personal pipeline to God."

Yes, we do. It's called prayer.

Addict | 12:09 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

I'm an LDS guy who has fought addiction for years. It is sin to give in to the urge to self destruct spiritually or even physically. But when I can resist and keep my mind focused on something more elevating, I feel temple-worthy. Don't suppose that because someone is gay he can't set aside his urges for something higher. JUST LIKE HETEROSEXUALS must overcome the urge to engage in sexual relations outside marriage. I don't know why I was born with a tendency to addictions, but you don't see me demanding a meeting with the church to teach them better understanding. There is a standard, and I will live it even if I'm fighting a horrible urge every day of my life. That's the Lord's standard, end of story.

"Absorbed" the message? | 12:26 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

This is one bishop who fully understands the directive from the Brethren regarding gay members.

Gay and lesbian proponents: Please do not paint Prieshood leaders with a brush obviously tainted with no substantiation other than your biased point to make.

Jan San | 12:34 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

I want to say first and foremost that I am active LDS. After reading the article and the comments - I think that most of what I read in the comments were very judgmental. Yes, I agree and also believe that the gay community has an unrighteous agenda. But, I did not see it here. What I saw, was that they wanted people who were gay and WERE living AS THEY SHOULD to be respected in their wards and not shunned - just like we treat others who are grappling with some sort of sin. Also, some bishops may indeed have some hangups about this and so may not be compassionate in their dealings with this. Maybe we could be of more help to our brothers and sisters who may be dealing with this if we did not treat them like dirt when they come to church. And YES!!!! I thinks parents do need special help in dealing with this. Our leaders talk to MANY different groups - why not to them - maybe by doing so they may touch someones heart.
The SIN in not that they have these feeling but when they act on them.

LDSBOY | 12:35 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

Children! As my mother would say, stop fighting. Dear Jon, who are you to say who the church wants? The church welcomes all! The Lord loves us all! People don't have so much venom for cancer patients, why gay people? You can't catch it. Although the desire of same sex attraction is not a sin, it can lead to the sin which is actively engaging in sexual conduct. Therefore, the desires should be dealth with so the sin does not occur. If you treat homosexuality as a sickness, that means you don't have to understand it to love someone that has those desires. I will not get into a discussion about homosexuality being a sickness. That is not what I am trying to say. I had to approach my Bishop with these issues and found nothing but love and compassion from him and most of his counselors. Yes, some people are still afraid of it. But all the counselors knew that we were dealing with the worth of a soul which is great unto the Lord. Just because a man may be gay or have those desires does not mean he or she has them for every man or woman.

Guayaco | 12:38 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

Don't hold your breath. I trust that the LDS church will continue manage their own general conference agenda without help, especially from the news conference groups.

sarah | 1:12 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

I think this is ridiculous.The proclamation to the family says it all and some gay support group shouldn't try and get the church to change a direct revelation and commandment from god which is the hidden agenda it has.

GK from England | 1:32 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

This so called Gay group are acting like school bullies. They dictate their own opinions and try to shut down everyone else who disagrees with them. I'll give them a taste of their own medicine by saying...shut up and grow up!

A. M. Anderson | 2:02 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

It doesn't hurt to bring concerns to the bretheren. I agree though, that this Affirmation group does sound demanding, as if the church would be against supporting righteous ideas. The idea that the church should stress the importance of loving our brothers and sisters reguardless of their weeknesses or trials is a righteous point, and the church has done that. There has been conference talks on this issue, along with on other issues such as pornography, etc. I don't feel the church has skirted around the issue. Maybe it would be a good idea to point out to mothers that they shouldn't burden themselves unnecessarily with their childrens choices, but reguardless of what anyone says, mothers will still feel sorrow for their childrens actions and choices if they are contrary to what is right, and they will still feel some guilt- all parents do, they wonder what could i have done differently... it's a normal feeling, but most through the help of the gospel are able to find peace. It's the individuals choice to find the peace or remain burdened with sorrow and guilt.

Anonymous | 2:13 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

sarah & GK, did you even read the article?? you would do well to read LDSBOY's comments & learn a lesson!

No Affirmation! | 2:52 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

If Affirmation were to work with local authorities, they would receive every instruction necessary in helping them clarify their private confusion over being Gay and Mormon. The rules don't change for anyone -- Gay or Straight!

So why is Affirmation making their church demands
public? Straight Latter-day Saints would really like to know.

MOJ | 3:28 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

In terms of the Church clarifying their views on homosexuality, that has been done repeatedly: the Proclamation on the Family, the interview with Elder Oaks and Elder Wickman on the Church's website (in the Newsroom), the pamphlet entitled "God Loveth His Children" (also posted on the Church's website), Elder Holland's talk in the October 2007 General Conference. All of these AND MORE can be found in the Gospel Topics section of the Gospel Library on the Church's website. I'm not sure why anyone feels like the Church hasn't been clear enough on this.

Re:Addict | 3:39 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

Thank you for your comments. I think many lds members are very narrow minded as this is a very human trait (narrow mindedness, I mean). I say this being extremely narrow minded in many aspects myself(I'm not perfect either). I can't profess to understand Affirmation's true intent. But I can see where this is a very real issue (like pornography) in very many lives including LDS members. From birth to life events, whether acquired through innocence or through sinning, these 'urges' come and become part of us. We have to deal with them. If we choose poorly, which we often do, and it becomes public, we get labeled, our parents feel guilty, wondering where they went wrong. Our peers question every other decision we make. Many times they stop seeing the good we do instead seeing only this one sided struggle. I am not gay, nor do I have feelings this direction. I remember once feeling this way when I was 17 for a couple weeks, but didn't do anything else and it went away. Lucky me?! For those that continue to battle, "Choose the Right" and "may God be with you." For those that don't, "love the sinner."

Anonymous | 3:59 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

to moj,

I think the problem is, as illustrated by this message board, the members don't follow what the church says. it says everyone should be treated with kindness, love & respect, and I'm hard-pressed to find that in many of these comments.

LDSWife | 4:40 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

I just want to say that I don't think this group is demanding anything. I believe that in a compromise, you start with something that you know will be turned down so you can get something close to what you really want. I honestly don't think that either group is trying to offend or push something on the other, I think that this is just the way toward a compromise, and that's all the Affirmation group wants to do. I support anyone who follows the gospel standards, and those who try to. There is a lot of mixed feelings towards homosexuals, I see it in our ward. It's the same people who think converts are lower than them (boy have I been on the bad side of that one). You just have to suck it up and deal with that fact that humans aren't perfect. I hope if nothing else, more understanding comes of this.

Tyler | 6:32 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

It is unfair to compare homosexuality with just about any other circumstance. It is something that we really do not understand. Some might say that it is simply a burden certain individuals must deal with during their life, and maybe beyond. I think it is much more. For those of us who are heterosexual, imagine a reversal of our attractions. I believe that most homosexuals can deny their attractions about as easily as heterosexuals can deny theirs. How difficult would it be to for a heterosexual person to convince his or herself they are attracted to the same sex? Why is it fair for anyone to expect a homosexual to be able to acomplish this impossible feat?

Kim, Greenland | 7:08 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

It is the signs of the time. When in the scriptures do we read groups or persons demanding of prophets to do so and so?
ï¿½

The Point | 9:03 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

Maybe the point is that Pres. Monson has indicated his willingness meet with this group. He is extending love and consideration to a group who deal with very difficult temptations, many of them successfully as they live the commandments and seek to be obedient to the Lord. We should follow Pres. Monson's example--I believe the scriptures call it compassion.

Sith | 9:43 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

to The Point...

Of course we will have compassion, love, and consideration to those who face these urges but when it comes down to it, the church is not going to change the doctrine. That's my own view on the subject...

Susan | 11:05 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

In several places in the Bible, it condemns being gay. The LDS church counsels with gays and lesbians with sympathy and understanding. Any member of the LDS church that has a problem should be treated with compassion. I do not know what Affirmations requests are, however, if Affirmation or anyone else expects the LDS church to change their position on this when the Bible itself speaks against it is asking too much.

deh | 11:04 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

Man to himself = LDS, Man to Man = Excommunicate, Women to herself = LDS, Women to Women = Excommunicate, My wife and I = LDS, I and some other women is adultery and I will be excommunicated. Live the gospel and there will be no problems.

here, queer, and in your ward | 11:54 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

I'm a gay hispanic, male, RM, attracted to other men, but I don't act upon it, I don't fantasize about it, I don't spill my own seed on the ground.

I sing in the ward choir. I'm the sec. to the HP group.I have interviews with my Bishop and Stake President every three months, and go to the temple every week.

It is possible to be an active gay mormon. They don't "Force" you to like females, you just need to live the gosple, probably a little tighter than the average hetro male.

Bretheren, our salvation is our own choice. God still loves people born different ways. Come back to the flock. Let's all be eternal together.

Difference | 12:21 a.m. Aug. 13, 2008

The President of the United States represents the voice of the people and therefore the voice of the people should influence/direct the President's actions. A prophet represents God and therefore God directs what he says, not the people or some "Affirmation" group. If this group really believes the Mormon leader to be a prophet of God, then do they believe they can provide more insight than God?

to here queer and in your ward | 1:56 a.m. Aug. 13, 2008

I applaud you and have immense respect for you and will remember what you have written here, you are a brave soul and a credit to your faith. You are an example of a committed Mormon. Queer or not. I am moved deeply by your comments. Your sister in the gospel, from one who is your typical Mormon mom of three sons.

Saddened | 3:29 a.m. Aug. 13, 2008

I'm saddened by the misunderstanding I see here. The Lord NEVER gave us permission to pass judgment on anyone else, REGARDLESS of their sins. The Lord taught us to love people, teach them the truth, invite them to be obedient, and promise blessings.

Of course the church will never condone gay sex or gay marriage. That's NOT what Affirmation is asking for anyway. They're simply trying to help church members understand the difficulties we face--helping church members understand the difference between feelings and actions.

I can think of many times when I've felt shunned simply because people assume that because I'm attracted to other men that I live an immoral lifestyle. Such is not the case. My testimony of the gospel of Christ helps lift me above these urges to strive for a higher purpose. And there are many others out there like me--men committed to honoring their priesthood, serving in the church and keeping their covenants.

Shame on you to all of you who assume that all LDS men and women who are attracted to the same gender are promiscuous, live a "gay" lifestyle, or are otherwise uncommitted to the gospel. Such is not the case.

Jeremiah Hansen | 3:33 a.m. Aug. 13, 2008

SSA is an inept acronym to describe being gay, and the term "I struggle with SSA" is ridiculous in the way it ascribes negative connotations to something that is a natural state of being for a homosexual. It disingenuously boils down the issue to sexual desire alone. Is your straight relationship really just about sex or is there more to it than that? If you are gay, stop "struggling with same-sex-attraction" and start accepting the wonderful person God made you.

You have the ability to truly find happiness, not by living a lonely and secretive life but by coming out of the closet, dating, and hopefully finding the love of your life. You can move to MA or CA and get married. You can even adopt children and truly enjoy the joy that comes with raising a family.

Trust me, its possible, and totally worth the judgmental comments (like those on this page) you are sure to encounter from your "righteous" Mormon friends and family. They would much rather you stay celibate and in the closet but you don't have to live that life. You can lead just as fulfilling (even spiritual) a life as your straight counterparts.

Hmmm | 4:13 a.m. Aug. 13, 2008

Looking at Affirmation's agenda, I for one am all for less suicides in Utah. Our rates are shockingly high and even if only one young man or woman is lost due to a lack of empathy on our part, its one too many.

happy to be here | 4:15 a.m. Aug. 13, 2008

I am a gay mormon and I go to church each week. I participate in the sacrament, I am the Elders Quorum President and I do my home teaching faithfully each month. I visit the sick and widows and do charity work for a local non profit organization twice a month.
I attend the temple faithfully. I simply do not act on my impulses. I would urge all Gay mormon's to do as I do. Do not act on your impulses. I do it. You can do. Please come back and sit with me on a pew and enjoy the fruits of the vine.

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