Reader comments
Vouchers likely to play big role in District 8

Anonymous | 4:29 a.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Way to try to distance yourself from Buttars and Bush.

I said it before and I'll say it again.

Anyone that voted for vouchers is NEVER going to get my vote.

That is a message that needs to be sent loud and clear because you know there is some clown writing up his/her new voucher bill right now!

Broken System -V- Vouchers | 9:25 a.m. Aug. 11, 2008

I suspect that miss Morgan would have polled all of her constituents before casting this vote and every other vote in the house.

Vouchers were all the rage last year. It wasnt until the Voucher bill was past that the UEA made the issue public enemy number 1.

Something has got to be done about the failing grades our schools, Teachers ad administrators are getting in educating our children. We must consider all alternatives or we will be left with nothing but a substandard system with no hope of improvement.

Just because the majority doesnt support an Idea it doesnt mean the idea is wrong. It might mean the public is ill informed or lack the knowledge to make an educated decission.

Scare tactics of the democrats seem to be driving public policy. When the only solution they come up with is to throw money at a failing system then we should change the system before bankrupting families to prop it up.

Here we go again | 9:41 a.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Vouchers, at least in the incarnation being peddled by our state legislature and their special interest lackey--Parents for Choice in Education, amounts to nothing more than a gigantic tax give-away to private business. It is nothing more than a scam that Utahn's so easily fall victim to. I didn't have to have the UEA to tell me that, either, since any reasonable person can figure that out.

Comments continue below

Bluebird | 10:52 a.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Lets call Vouchers what they really are, welfare for the wealthy. The wealthy are the only ones that would be able to take advantage of vouchers and every taxpayer would be paying for it. This had nothing to do with benefitting education or kids. It was all about some , not all, wealthy people wanting a tax rebate for sending their kids to private schools. Ultimate greed.

Walker did not listen to her constituents instead she listened to special interests with deep pockets. The voters need to respond by voting her out.

Tired of Teacher Union politics | 11:08 a.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Voucher for the wealthy? You never read the law did you. You just drank the union kool aid. The "wealthy" could only qualify for a $500 voucher. Now you don't really think $500 would be the tipping point for a "wealthy" person to choose private school do you? Not only that, but if they did take that $500 that left $7000 in the system for the children of uninformed people such as yourself. Thank you, union, for taking away the choice of non-wealthy people to choose how they would like to educate their child with just a fraction of the money it costs for the public schools to do it.

Steven Jarvis | 11:39 a.m. Aug. 11, 2008

This wasn't the teacher Union who defeated vouchers. It was the people of the state who did. They understood how much was at stake if they allowed such a program to take root. It would grow and change till it put a stranglehold on public education funding without giving the taxpayer something in return.

Tired,

You incorrectly state that 7K would be left in the public school. That was proven time and time again to be false and a blatant misunderstanding of 'cookie' politics. The feds send no money and the State allocates their share elsewhere. Besides, it wasn't the union that got the referendum off. The PTA did. Those parents were the real force that got the job done and killed vouchers.

Now it is time to remove the self-serving from office who do not listen. Goodbye Walker.

spiff | 11:42 a.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Isn't Walker also the one who got the district split legislation ball rolling? With promises of no new taxes, etc. Now one of the items the new school board is checking out, is a bond election for the new east side district.....

ElkMan | 12:08 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

We need to insist on good open government in this state. We need to hold Carlene Walker and all the pro-voucher people accountable. She inttroduced this law and pushed it in the Legislature with the backing of the GOP Leadership.
Then PTA Members and teachers got the issue on the ballot. The Voucher bill then was defeated soundly by the people.
Then Walker, Curtis and the GOP Leadership then tried to say that the law still was in effect because of the clean up law. The courts then ruled that this was not the case.
The GOP Leadership has tried to cram this Voucher Bill down the throats of Utahns. The people have spoken and they do not want Vouchers.
The Legislature has not represented the will of the average Utahn. This voucher bill would help the wealtthly families but not the poor or minorities.
As a person of color I was glad to have the NAACP come out against vouchers. The Voucher bill was just plain wrong.
The Special Interest Groups had thier paw all over this law. The Parents for Choice and the several Legislators would have benifited personally by this law. Vote all the GOP out.

Here - Here | 12:32 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

As a sitting member of a Board of Education here in the state I am proud to say that I too, supported vouchers. I did it because of the sorry state of our Public Schools. I did it because I support education for our Public, not just Public Education. The fact of the matter is, is that those who were vociferously opposed to Vouchers did it for selfish reasons and had no other alternative which would even attempt to raise the standard of education in our Public Schools. There were leaders of the anti vouchers from the USBA (Utah School Boards Association) and they received their marching orders from the NSBA (National School Boards Association) which was just like having the NEA and the National PTA involved. In a nutshell, our Public Schools have been hijacked by extremist groups which oppose any different opinions and put their faith in education fully in-line with the Government and not with the local people who should actually make the decisions. Our local schools are hurting because of people who will not allow for change, or thought, even for vouchers. There is no real meaningful dialogue at this point except for vouchers.

Supermom | 12:41 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Guess what??? There are some people in District 8 who really like the idea of vouchers. Unfortunately, a lot of them didn't vote. Does anyone seriously think we have a great public school system here and that we're getting our money's worth? I've been involved with the schools for years, and I see nothing but dissatisfaction on all fronts. Incompetence is rampant throughout the system....including really bad school principles.

We as taxpayers would be better served if we voted for vouchers and let people decide where they want their children educated. And taxpayers would get a huge break! All the system guarantees, as it now stands, is that the wealthy are the only ones who have a choice as to the quality of their children's education. Contrary to Elkman's comments and those of others, people against vouchers are either more concerned with job security or want to deprive others of their right to a better education. I have yet to hear a plausible reason for the status quo...and the nonsense that it only benefits the wealthy is idiotic. They don't need the vouchers but the average working family does.

Reason | 12:59 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

I agree with Broken System 9:25. Vouchers were (and still are) a great idea. The bill passed the legislature and was signed by the governor, but the UEA set their sights on it. The UEA wields a powerful influence in this state, and it flows down to influence teachers, PTA, parents, etc. They did an effective job of turning vouchers into the enemy, and vouchers were then defeated at the polls.

But after the defeat, people again began saying, ï¿½How can we correct our serious education problems?ï¿½ Sorry, but it wonï¿½t happen until an element of true competition comes into the picture, forcing the public schools to improve. And we collectively just defeated one of the best ways to accomplish this.

Also, vouchers are not a deal for the wealthy. A study that the Deseret News published last year (during the debate) showed that, for the majority of private schools in the state, vouchers will pay for all or most of the tuition cost. However, the DN misinterpreted their own data, and therefore presented it the opposite way.

Cody | 1:01 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Spiff, and Karen morgan sponsorded the bill to allow 80% of governments approve the vote, Clearing the way for jordan to split. And I supported the split.

Walker, Bye Bye | 1:26 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

I live in CH, and voted for Carlene Walker the last time she ran, I wont be making that mistake again. And Supermom, I never heard a single logical arguement for vouchers. When your trying to change something you need to provide the proof that it needs changing, not the other way around. Otherwise your just like chicken little running around claiming the sky is falling.

Vouchers the only solution? | 1:36 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

To Hear, Hear:

Let me recap for you your voucher "solution" for public education:

1) Having our public schools hijacked by right-wing extremist groups like Parents for Choice in Education.

2) Taking the students who are least expensive to educate, giving their parents up to $3,000 that would have gone to a public school, and sending them on their way to private school leaving the public schools with LESS money.

And you are on a Board of Education? The voters in your area must be eating too many "oreo cookies" as they watch TV commercials paid for by extremist right-wing groups.

Mahershalalhashbaz | 1:43 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

The Voucher bill was hard for people to understand. That's why it didn't pass. I like to tell people to look at it this way to see if it was good. Who supported them? The Republican party (and their platform by the way) who passed them. Mitt Romney. The extremely conservative hero (or ought to be) of all conservatives Arnold Friedman, and the Utah Taxpayers Association. Now let's look at who opposed them. The extremely liberal groups the ACLU, the NAACP, Bill Clinton (publicly), the UEA, and the Utah Democrat party. All publicly opposed them. So it seems that vouchers were a very good fit for a Republican state like Utah.

Cody, | 1:46 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

As a cottonwood Heights resident, I feel Carlene walker has been a great senator, And I will gladly support her in november. I really doubt the average voter cares about vouchers, considering 13% voted on the voucher referendum while the normal turnout is around 80%.

What a Joke | 2:02 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

to Walker, Bye Bye, You wrote, "... When your trying to change something you need to provide the proof that it needs changing, not the other way around. Otherwise your just like chicken little running around claiming the sky is falling." May I just say that it should read ...When you're trying.... and ...around claiming that you're just like...

You have just made the point of those who are for Vouchers. We couldn't have said it better ourselves. You are a failure of public education with your spelling and grammar.

Joe | 2:03 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

It is interesting that vouchers have historically been promoted as a way for the intercity poor to move their children away from failing schools, and yet the UEA and PTA have gone to great lengths here to demonize vouchers as a program for the wealthy. Mr. Jarvis, if you believe that it wasn't the UEA behind the defeat of the voucher program, then who was leading that cheer?

It is obvious that the UEA is opposed to anything that could possibly provide an alternative to their public school system, and Walker has crossed them.

And, it appears that Morgan is completely in favor of the UEA agenda.

Anonymous | 2:08 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

The Republican Party in Utah has had an agenda against thee UEA for years. Their whole agenda is designed to bust the teachers union. First they underfund education for years, then they complain about it. Next came charter schools ( non-union schools). Ultimately they brought out vouchers. Their entire education policy is designed to undercut the UEA. I am interested in a real education strategy in the State of Utah that is about our children, instead of petty bias against a union.

to cody | 2:09 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Hide and watch what happens.

Anonymous | 2:37 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

not principle

princiPAL

remember you always have a Pal in principal.....

"True" competition | 3:26 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

To Reason:

OK. Let's bring your "true" competition to education. Are you really ready? Here we go:

Public schools can select their students. They can turn away any student for any reason--just like the "truely" competitive private schools can do.

Public schools no longer have to provide (very expensive) special education services, ESL services, behavioral services, alternative placement services, young mother services, etc. to qualifying students just like the private schools don't. Those extremely expensive (and unfunded/partially funded) services could no longer be mandated by the government to foster "true" competition.

Public schools can dismiss any student, at any time, without cause.

Public schools can now use vast amounts of public taxpayer money on advertising so that they can "truely" compete with the private schools that do the same.

Please don't post your tired, old, union bashing "competition" threads unless you would really be in favor of lifting the restrictions currently in place on the public schools!!!

Let's See | 4:12 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Let's see, I am a Private/Public School who only takes on problem children who are 'asked' to leave because they are considered 'dregs' of society. I cater to the under privileged. I take them and their Vouchers, I get Federal Funding.... Yep, it can be done and it can be done quite well. It is called Job Corps (or the likes). Oh, and by the way, they also pay their students, expect discipline and make the students into producing members of society. Yep, it can be done, quite well WITHOUT Unions and other distracting Public Ed auxiliaries.

East Coast | 4:20 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

The voucher bill was a horrible, misguided attempt to give a bunch of middle income people, who don't want to sacrifice their vacations/atvs/suvs/big mortgages for education. They want a hand-out, then claim to be "conservative Republicans." Anyone who thinks vouchers work has never researched their performance in other states; it is abysmal. Sure, inner city ghettos want vouchers, but suburban America fully funds its public schools and the best universities are full of studens from these traditional public schools. The Mormons (yes, it was mainly middle class Mormons who can't afford private but want the prestige of private) who want vouchers are too stupid to have been accepted to these universities, too stupid to associate with well-educated professionals, and too stupid (and arrogant) to see that the rest of us saw through their greed. UEA is one of the few things in this state that actually helps children. The Mormon families who procreate but don't parent are a waste. So are their voucher dreams.

Republican for Corporate Welfar | 4:38 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

I am a Republican who supports giving taxpayer money to private businesses without any strings attached. Support Republican socialism. Support Corporate welfare. Support vouchers.

Fred | 4:43 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Lets See, you left out the part about what happens if the kids can't follow the rules at job corp. They are shipped back to public schools.

I laugh at all you voucher supporters and the theory that the teachers union brainwashed the people, or it was a very complex issue and the voters didn't understand it. I assume you must be with the Overstock.com crew and think that the people of Utah are just to stupid to know what they are doing.

How about a new thought, vouchers was a bad idea, the people of Utah were smart enough to figure it out.

Let Ms. Walker stand on her record, and if she is doing the "will of the people" in her district I am sure she will be re-elected. Matter of fact, I think we will find out in November how many legislators were failing to do the will of the people of their district.

Are You Sure? | 5:01 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

To "True Competetion" 3:26, Are you sure that you want to make this argument? This is the very argument that gives credibility to Vouchers. If you go with this argument then it is apparent that you favor keeping all kids together, including the students who are wanting, willing and working hard to excel. By keeping all students together then you hold back those students mentioned above only because it wouldn't be 'fair' to allow them to continue. What really is the 'fair' action of our society to allow a good student to excel without the holding back based on problem students?

Cody | 5:02 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Several factors going for Carlene Walker,
Brack Obama Is the Democrat Pesidential Nomanee, Democtrats your fooling yourself if you don't think this radical will hurt your candidates.
John Huntsman is on the Republican Ticket, Curently polling at 70+ Percent.
This is a Republican leaning district.
As stated in the article, It is a presidential election year, and More republicans will be voting then other elections.
Carlen Walker is backed by our popular mayor.
Even if Karen Morgan Wins, Democrats will probably loose her house seet ot Jaren Davis.

Stewart | 5:05 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

A side note to all of the discussions above, Karen Morgan has made more effort in the House to oppose illegal immigration than Walker ever did in the Senate. Walker has not been a supporter of illegal immigration but she has not spoken out about it either as has Karen Morgan. Even though she is a democrat Morgan has out performed many of the republicans on opposing illegal immigration. She understands the cost that it is creating in the public schools for the taxpayers.

Emily | 5:11 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

If the UEA truely cared about children that would've supported vouchers. The UEA is just a bunch of selfish thugs.
If the UEA thought their product was sound, they wouldn't mind the competition. But their product stinks and that is why they get paid so little. You get what you pay for.
The liberals need a poor public education system; afterall who else would be stupid enough to vote for them?

Public schools are for kids whose parents are too poor or too cheap to send them to a public school.
Reality stinks doesn't it....

KF | 8:31 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

To Emily:

"Public schools are for kids whose parents are too poor or too cheap to send them to a public school."

I'm guessing you're a product of private schools? Proofread your post before hitting Add your comment.

Cottonwood Heights Native | 8:53 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Having voted for both Sen. Walker and Rep. Morgan in the past, I will in November vote Rep. Morgan to replace Sen. Walker. Morgan knows the pulse of her constituents and represents them on the hill even when it sometimes means that she stands alone amongst the "D's. Walker votes according to party leadership even when it means she must vote against her constituents' wishes. She is not willing to stand alone amongst the "R"s in favor of her constituents. Morgan is. It takes courage to be an elected official willing to stand strong in support of those you represent. So, if I must chose between the two ... I chose the one who has proven this to be the case time and time again. My vote goes to Karen Morgan.

True Competition | 9:06 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

I would accept a voucher only if the following conditions were met to assure true competition:

1. The voucher would pay tuition in full at the school. No other payment required, other than registration fees like the public school.

2. The voucher school must accept everyone who applies, just like the public school can't turn away students because the class is already full (over 30 students) or any other prejudicial reason.

3. Teachers must be just as "highly qualified" as the public school.

4. Students must take the same tests and schools must report NCLB tests just like the public school.

Elkman | 9:52 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

The sheep in Utah will vote for any idiot with the big R word in front of their name. We should be ashamed of having the lowest voting rates in the country.
I think the reason for the low rates is because Democrats and Independents are sick and tired of the special interest influence over our State Government.
We should be mortified to have people like Curtis, Valentine, and Huntsman running this state. They are all bought and paid for with special interest monies.
We need to throw all these guys out and elect good moderate Republicans and Democrats. Vote for Morgan, Black, Seegmiller, and Beck in South Valley.
Let's hold these Republicans accountable for their voucher mess and the other deals they have put together in their back rooms. God help us all!!!

Steven Jarvis | 9:30 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

Vouchers COULD be beneficial such as the Carson Smith scholarship that provides assistance for autistic children for private schools. But what we got passed was the worst kind and that was exactly what Parents for Choice wanted--no public accountability for tax dollars paid out, and few stipulations about who gets the money. I only support vouchers if/when they meet a specific special education or behavioral need.

Had the voucher law gone into effect the only positive outcome would be that enrollment stressed private schools like Meridian would have a chance at being bailed out by the government instead of raising tuition or closing its doors. This is a direct antithesis to the so-called competition argument and a strong reason to never allow full scale vouchers to float in our already cash strapped system.

Duh? | 6:54 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008

Why would you vote for someone who doesn't fully listen to her constituants and does what she wants anyway?

District 8 voter | 1:32 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

Sen. Walker has done a great job representing me, and I will support her again.

Karen Morgan is a puppet of the UEA and way too liberal on every issue I care about.

Be more specific | 10:01 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

To District 8 voter: Is one of those "liberal issues" vouchers? Morgan's representation of District 8 by voting AGAINST VOUCHERS does not make her any more of a puppet to the UEA than Walker's voting FOR VOUCHERS makes her a puppet of the Republican party. Please stick with the facts. They both have voting records. Vote for the one that has represented your interests the best. One could argue that any current legislator is a puppet. That argument gives no concrete information. So, what does "way too liberal on every issue I care about mean?" Just curious.

Public Educator District 8 | 11:12 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

To Be More Specific: Some people believe that anyone who supports public education is "way too liberal". Yet, even Senator Walker in this very article is quoted as saying she won't ever again support vouchers because her constituents "hate it". If her constituents "hate it" so much why did she continually vote for vouchers every year that vouchers came to the table? I checked the House and Senate voting records. It appears that each year Walker voted for vouchers, Morgan voted against. I agree with the Cottonwood Heights Native. Morgan does seem to have a more accurate "pulse" of District 8 than does Walker.

dvsnowman | 7:38 p.m. Sept. 10, 2008

Senator Walker in her campaign and in this newspaper article repeatedly states that she listens to the people in her district. I voted for her in the last election cycle, but I will not give her my vote this time. On several issues I have contacted her with my opinion and on each and every issue she voted opposite of my opinion. Seems to me she listens to the lobbyists or her church, not the voters.

Cottonwood Heights Native | 8:22 p.m. Sept. 18, 2008

To dvsnowman-
Amen. I couldn't have said it better.

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