Deseret News | Reader comments: Groups oppose plans to close abandoned mines

Reader comments
Groups oppose plans to close abandoned mines

Sam Jackson | 6:38 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008

Looks like Uncle Sam's little "Do Good'er Elves" are at it again, as we are hearing the same thing in the Southern Utah area, they even want to seal Kanab's "Montezuma gold dig" in Johnson Canyon. How many "abandoned mine fatalities have we suffered so far? I think the BLM "over staffing,make work" mentality might have something to do with projects of this kind.

Bob G | 7:13 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008

I think this new mine bureau the state created is trying to flex its muscles now. Instead of miner safety they focus on other unimportant deeds. In Eureka there is a greater danger than unsealed mines and that is mine shafts collapsing that are present under the entire town. The current land owners are responsible for securing these mines so why do the taxpayers have to pay for indescriminate plugging of shafts? Who knows, perhaps in the future these mines could serve a purpose not yet visable, like shelters and survival homes. They would probably make for good housing developements or storage that are enviornmentally friendly. Destruction seems a waste of useable space. Perhaps the town of Eureka should start thinking outside the box and figure out how to use and preserve these mines. They could sure use the developement and prosperity it would bring.

acidman1968 | 7:33 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008

If the Utah Division of Oil, Gas, and Mining was burying Native American sites from the 1800s, there would be a huge public outcry against it. But when it comes to destroying American history - such as old mines - the public seems to be apathetic.

Much of the expansion of the early United States owes its source to mining. Destroying these old mines is no different than destroying the petroglyphs in Nine Mile Canyon to keep people from climbing on the rocks in their efforts to see the petroglyphs and falling from those rocks and injuring themselves.

The old mines are OUR history - and they should be preserved as such whenever and wherever possible...they should NOT be arbitrarily back-filled in some misguided attempt to protect people from themselves.

Comments continue below

still exasperated | 8:12 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008

The division was formed to enforce safety standards in active mines following the deaths last year, but instead is using its budget for reclamation.

In separate stories on KSL, the active coal mines continue to ignore safety standards, presumably because fines are cheaper than safety.

The division needs to do the job it was made for, even if politically powerful mine owners don't like it.

Digger | 9:22 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008

The Division of Oil, Gas and Mining has no connection to underground mine worker safety. The new Office of Coal Mine Safety is found in the state's Labor Commission. While safety is important, there is also the issue of trespass and liability. Many old mines sit on federal lands and when someone is injured or killed in an abandoned mine it often ends up in a court settlement. Do you approve of millions of tax dollars given to those who have broken the law in trespassing on those properties? Personally you can go break your neck in an old mine, but I don't want to pay you or your survivors for your stupidity.

Former Santaquinian | 11:20 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008

Here's the best solution for this concern.

If the mines are on State/Federal property then the State has the right (and obligation) to seal them up, and should do it NOW! This requires no further discussion. It's that simple!

If the mines are on private property, then the property owners should determine what they want to do as private property owners, HOWEVER, the State, County and Municipalities need to serve notice that if injury or death occurs on their property from these mine shafts they will be held for criminal negligence and wrongful death to be pursued by BOTH the State and a wronged private party, AND all the mine shafts on that owner's property are summarily sealed up and the bill handed over to the offending property owner.

Historical relevancy is not supposed to trump pubic safety and responsible action, especially where KNOWN injury and death can and has taken place.

Accountability and responsibility is what this should be about... not all the other distracting arguments and silly notions.

Get rid of these | 3:56 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008

These abandoned mines are nusances, closely related to people who leave car trunks open and kids climb into them and get killed, or swimming pools without an adequate perimeter or people who leave refrigators in their yard then kids climb into them.

Get rid of them.

Stuart Burgess | 4:16 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008

As a co-founder and president of Mojave Underground, you all know exactly what I have to say about the subject. One quote from this article just makes me sick.

"We go out of our way and do more than what is required to make sure that Utah's mining legacy and history and heritage is preserved"

This is coming from Luci Malin, administrator of the division's Abandoned Mine Reclamation Program. Lucy Malin is a chief advocate of "streamlining" the reclamation process. In other words, she believes that all mines are the same and can be treated the same way, regardless of historical significance and cultural importance. If the DOGM went "out of their way" to preserve Utah's mining history, they would not be searching for ways to shortcut around historical issues at mine sites!

If any of you are concerned about the actions DOGM is taking to destroy Utah's mining history join us now and lets stop this reckless destruction.

cowboylogic | 7:57 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008

The state has no right to erase history with taxpayer dollars without accounting to those taxpayers for the misuse of those dollars. After reclamation, what next? Nominating former mining areas as wilderness areas? They already reclaim roads and then nominate many areas as wilderness. ATV users, rockhounds, recreational miners, and anyone who uses our public lands should be outraged at these closures. Put a locked gate up, instead of filling in our history.

Eureka is on the chopping block now, but Frisco, mines above Stockton, north and south of Eureka including Silver City, mines in the Lakeside Mtns and mines on Spor Mountain are next, all scheduled to be "reclaimed" in 2009. Brown's Hole uranium mine reclamation has been put on hold because of active/renewed interest in this strategic mineral.

If you care about any of these sites, file a claim and become a landowner and tell DOGM no! to the destruction of history. Otherwise, the only way you'll ever know about Utah's mining heritage is by reading it in the history books.

More people are killed by lightning each year while enjoying our mountains yet no one is calling for "reclaiming" our hiking trails. Give me a break!

Mike Capps | 6:21 a.m. Aug. 11, 2008

The DOGM claims filling these sites also helps preserve the history. They say that backfilling, it further protects the supporting structures inside. Yet mines are full of clean, dry air that prevents molding of structures and premature decay. Sealing off a mine stops this airflow, breaks down anything inside, and can result in a massive ground collapse on the surface.

I believe a compromise can be reached between the AMRP and those who view the closures of these sites differently, and we'd love to discuss them further with the DOGM, yet they refuse any direct communication with us except to satisfy their superiors whom we are in writing with. All parties, including the AMRP, site historians, spelunkers, and mineral gatherers can walk away happy and the DNR freed from liability.

Tens of thousands of explorers safely venture into these open abandoned mines each
year, with an average of .19 deaths and approximately 1 injury per year. Some individual sites in the west see over 10,000 visitors in a year with almost no safety incidents.

Who ever told the government it was their job to save us from ourselves?

Joe Gibbs | 6:34 a.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Closing mines like this is a disgrace and a slap in my face. My father and grandfathers were miners here in Utah, and I grew up watching them enter the mountains each day and return dirty, sweaty, and worn out. They slaved day in and day out making a wage, which was a decent wage for the time. And DOGM's plan is to just fill the sites in? Is there no care at all for even the slightest historical value in Eureka?

I personally don't believe that DOGM has any right to claim to need to protect the public. When I grew up, we could do anything we wanted, so long as we didn't hurt ourselves or others. We learned to govern ourselves and make our own decisions, and if we got hurt by it, a consequence was learned. If the government keeps "protecting" us more and more, what kind of society will we be?

If you need the government to protect you... perhaps you'd be safer not leaving your home today.

Gold Rush Expeditions | 5:25 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Wow, the lack of knowledge out there is amazing. DOGM has been around for years and years. They arent new, the only difference is that they have been actively closing hard rock mines in the past few years.
You idiots that think these should be closed show not only your ignorance for the sites and the law, but also how irresponsible and lazy you are. Move to a communist country where your government will pay for everything and protect you from all. America was founded on risk and independance, too bad most people have no recollection of this or any inclination to be self sufficient... I leave my trunk open and freezers in my yard just to bait little kids whose parents havent educated them and expect the public to police them.

Anonymous | 8:33 p.m. Aug. 15, 2008

"...its about...Accountability and responsibility..." Yep, its typical "fat, dumb, and happy" (and I add lazy) New America. Personal responsibility is no more, its a collective right. The gov't is there to provide all, and to protect us from ourselves. The lawyers run the show now, so we all just better sit down and shut up or the gov't will have to come and get us. If you morons only knew what loss of liberty you are supporting. The U.S. has already been lost...

Well put! ^ | 3:33 p.m. Aug. 18, 2008

I agree from Stuart Burgess down. I hope that "Get rid of these |" poster falls in a shaft and dies. :) And yes I smiled about that!

Attend this meeting | 9:57 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008

At the regularly scheduled monthly board meeting (a public meeting) DOGM Director will address the full board of the Division of Oil Gas and Mining on "issues related to [Utah] abandoned mine reclamation." It starts at 9AM in the morning in the DNR auditorium of the DNR building on 1594 West North Temple Salt Lake City, UT. (East of Redwood Road) Please attend to hear what Mr. John Baza will say about mine reclamation "issues" in Utah.

Attend on August 27th at 9AM | 10:01 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008

The meeting will be held August 27th starting at 9AM, with the first hour devoted to briefing the Board on AMR issues.

"Cory" Townsendii | 12:17 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

I am allowed access to "dangerous" mines all the time throughout Utah and the West. I am allowed to do this day or night on private or public land 24 hours day or night. I am not considered a trespasser nor does anyone think I have a death wish for exploring old mines nor do they think I am a suicidal maniac.

In fact the State and Federal government assist me in freely using these abandoned mines. Get with it guys, you need to find a way to get my friends at the DOGM, BLM, OSM, and USFS to treat you like they treat me.

Sincerely,

Corynorhinus "Cory" Townsendii
“Big Ears for short”
[a bat]

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Mike Capps

Mine enthusiast Stuart Burgess stands at the operating helm of the Eagle-Bluebell Hoise Room near Eureka. Division of Oil, Gas and Mining plans to backfill and close 116 abandoned mines in the area. Groups including Mojave Underground and Gold Rush Expedition oppose the move saying the division is rubbing out Utah's mining history, but the division says it is protecting the public from hazards.