Reader comments
LDS leader's '07 address still causing controversy
546 comments | Read story
Darn feminists! | 9:52 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008
I wish they would have minded their business way back when. Then we women
wouldn't have to vote, we would still be the equivalent of chattel, our
husbands could legally beat us, and us and our children would be considered our
husbands' property. YES!
I am grateful for my mother and all the sacrifices she made for me. I am also grateful for women who decided that women are people, too. Being a mother is a wonderful role to fill, and I hope no one would ever look down on that role or suggest it is unworthy or not valuable. I also think it's wonderful that as a woman, there are other roles I can fill and that can be fulfilling, since my life didn't take the turns I expected.
Seriously, get a grip. Not all Mormons are _________ (fill with stereotype). Similarly, not all feminists are ___________ (fill with stereotype). And hey, there are even...DUN DUN DUN...Mormon feminists!
I am grateful for my mother and all the sacrifices she made for me. I am also grateful for women who decided that women are people, too. Being a mother is a wonderful role to fill, and I hope no one would ever look down on that role or suggest it is unworthy or not valuable. I also think it's wonderful that as a woman, there are other roles I can fill and that can be fulfilling, since my life didn't take the turns I expected.
Seriously, get a grip. Not all Mormons are _________ (fill with stereotype). Similarly, not all feminists are ___________ (fill with stereotype). And hey, there are even...DUN DUN DUN...Mormon feminists!
Anonymous | 10:13 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008
As a single woman in my thirties, I fully sustain Sister Beck's talk! EVERY
talk in general conference talks about what we should be trying to be, and the
role of motherhood and being an example will never change. Does that bother me?
No, simply because I know that what she says is true. Would I love to have that
in my life? You bet. But I don't at all think she is saying to neglect the
other things in my life because I am not married and don't have children. I
have a successful career, and know that I can be an example to the people within
my scope of influence everyday. THAT is something I can control right now. If
you're offended by this talk, you are probably easily offended by a lot of
things which breaks my heart. People who have criticisms with doctrine usually
do not know the doctrines of the church all that well. Just think about it for a
second. This talk is asking us to stand a little taller, why don't we all
do it!
Comments continue below
Mormon men always in charge | 10:41 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008
regardless of talent or aptitude. Time for a new revelation.
Another Perspective | 11:01 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008
Men may get "burned" at every conference, but as men they hold the
priesthood and have power in the church that women don't. Many women feel
very, very powerless in a patriarchal church that they love. To have the head of
the women's organization (and one of the only female speakers at
conference) focus on that was devastating. It was devastating because it
didn't draw them closwer to God and the Savior-they felt it only spoke to
one type of US mother. I think some women look forward to hearing the president
of the women's organization talk-and were dissapointed when nothing she
said applied to them, or it made them feel like there weren't good
enough.
Many women feel they don't have a voice in the church. The 500+ signatures was a way for them to have a voice.
Many women feel they don't have a voice in the church. The 500+ signatures was a way for them to have a voice.
Kirk | 11:25 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008
Excellent dialogue: I still have a very hard time believing that so many people
are actually awake during conference. I have listened to over 50 live
conferences, even attending some in person, and it always amazes me how
incredibly boring and monotonous they are. We need controversy like this in
order to help us say awake during the usual, mindless dribble.
Tuffy Parker | 12:02 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
Two points to consider:
1) The Sunstone symposium is primarily driven by those who want to push the envelope for the sake of pushing the envelope rather than for greater understanding.
2) Those who have more interest is changing doctrine to conform to their beliefs rather than vice versa, might consider attending a church without doctrine or one with is more devoted to aligning with the popular culture.
1) The Sunstone symposium is primarily driven by those who want to push the envelope for the sake of pushing the envelope rather than for greater understanding.
2) Those who have more interest is changing doctrine to conform to their beliefs rather than vice versa, might consider attending a church without doctrine or one with is more devoted to aligning with the popular culture.
To: Mormon stuck in 2008 | 12:08 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
"Why are the wives so threatened by the thought of going out and competing
for a real job against other women?"
A REAL job? That's right, I forgot that birthing and raising four children through their childhood is not considered "real" work. Why? Because it's not a paying job? Because it's so mindless that any $6/hour day care worker can do it?
Hmmm...maybe I should consider a career change. What is it that you do? I am sure that I can contribute to society (and my bank account) better by competing for a "real" job instead of raising the next generation of Americans and church members.
Compare a child raised by day care to a child with a competent mother who chose to raise her/him. Trust me, there is a HUGE difference. My husband was raised through day care and summer camps, while I was raised by a mother. He is wonderful, but he is absolutely jealous of my childhood experiences. He watched TV, I read and did chores. Talk to the day care kids when they're adults and see how they feel about being set aside while Mom (and Dad) devoted more time to work than to them.
A REAL job? That's right, I forgot that birthing and raising four children through their childhood is not considered "real" work. Why? Because it's not a paying job? Because it's so mindless that any $6/hour day care worker can do it?
Hmmm...maybe I should consider a career change. What is it that you do? I am sure that I can contribute to society (and my bank account) better by competing for a "real" job instead of raising the next generation of Americans and church members.
Compare a child raised by day care to a child with a competent mother who chose to raise her/him. Trust me, there is a HUGE difference. My husband was raised through day care and summer camps, while I was raised by a mother. He is wonderful, but he is absolutely jealous of my childhood experiences. He watched TV, I read and did chores. Talk to the day care kids when they're adults and see how they feel about being set aside while Mom (and Dad) devoted more time to work than to them.
To Yawn | 12:12 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
I have read this whole topic and have this reply. It seems that many people who
have posted here have had to go read the talk online. So I think your spot on in
that they must have been sleeping during conference!
toddh | 12:43 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
Thanks to Taylor, (1:52 p.m.) for her or his insights. I'm going to use
them in my Sunday School lesson!
Paul | 12:52 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
As a husband if I showed the respect towards my wife that she deserved as my
companion and mother of our children, praising her and rewarding her for her
efforts she would be much happier and much more successful at her chosen
profession weather it is being a stay at home mom, PhD or both. Unhappy people
are unhappy because they are not loved or appreciated and made to feel under
valued by those they love the most. Don't blame Beck for feeling
undervalued, misunderstood or pigeon holed put the blame right where it belongs
demand the respect that the scriptures say you deserve ...Men love your wives
like Christ loves his church... That love should extend to all women single,
widowed, married and at home, married and working with or without kids etc by
all priesthood holders. That is what I have been hearing in General Priesthood
meeting for the last 38 years I haven't missed one. And yes I have room
for lots of improvement my dear companion points out where I am letting her
down.
Buster | 1:03 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
CW | 5:15 p.m.
Anonymous | 7:02 p.m.
People disagree with you, so "THEY" feel "guilty" and should "repent".
Everyone of my ancestors came across the plains, I am a CTR holder, and you are plain offensive and arrogant. Sister Beck's talk did not offend me, but you do.
Who called you to be judge of the worl?. Why do you think you have the right to talk to people that way?
So some women need to work. They have expained why, and you tell them they "feel guilty"?
Live your own life. Make your choices, and just because someone thinks differently than you does not make them wrong.
Worry about your own lives. Women do not need the guilt trips you send them on.
re:Mary in NY | 6:49 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008
"I don't remember hearing anything said by Sister Beck directed at single women or working women. This talk was directed at those who are Mothers."
Sister Beck's talk was from the President of the Relief Society, the LDS "Women's" organization. Her talk was directed at all women. Splitting hairs does not change this fact.
I can see why some feel offended. Let them own "their" feelings.
Anonymous | 7:02 p.m.
People disagree with you, so "THEY" feel "guilty" and should "repent".
Everyone of my ancestors came across the plains, I am a CTR holder, and you are plain offensive and arrogant. Sister Beck's talk did not offend me, but you do.
Who called you to be judge of the worl?. Why do you think you have the right to talk to people that way?
So some women need to work. They have expained why, and you tell them they "feel guilty"?
Live your own life. Make your choices, and just because someone thinks differently than you does not make them wrong.
Worry about your own lives. Women do not need the guilt trips you send them on.
re:Mary in NY | 6:49 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008
"I don't remember hearing anything said by Sister Beck directed at single women or working women. This talk was directed at those who are Mothers."
Sister Beck's talk was from the President of the Relief Society, the LDS "Women's" organization. Her talk was directed at all women. Splitting hairs does not change this fact.
I can see why some feel offended. Let them own "their" feelings.
awesomeron | 4:19 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
Oh but they are up for debate, that is part of the free will of choice that God
gave man. God wants us to get the best information and then come to our own
conclusion. "If you ask in Prayer, with real intent if the Gospel is
True" Supposedly Smart, Men have Symposiums and spend their time befuddling
each other and achieving little or nothing. Then writing Books the Rest of us
ignore. The Rest of us Post. My faith is based in the Reality of what I have
seen. Just like the Three and The Eight. However you have to have a seed of
faith, "if you have the faith of a mustard seed then you can move
mountains" I order to realize what you do see. With out that its just over
your head. I admire my wife�s more simple and trusting
faith. Sister Beck was/is correct. All talks do not have to be pleasing to all
people. The Church stresses do not beat your Wife/Husband for a Reason. Some are
offended by that because they either beat their
wife�s/husbands ,or In their World it just does not happen.
The Leaders know that in Reality it does happen.
ramper | 5:41 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
RE: Glenn Folly
Your statement "Sisters, know your place", sounds like something from the 50's down south directed at another select group.
Your statement "Sisters, know your place", sounds like something from the 50's down south directed at another select group.
Arnold C. Webber | 5:46 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
You know this whole thing could be resolved by the Presidency and the Quorum of
12 simply stating that Sister Beck's talk was: The will of the Lord, the
word of the Lord and the command of the Lord.But they won't do it. Why?
Because their image is important that they do not want to appear as being narrow
minded or fanatical; so, the members of the Church are left to fend for
themselves!
Reality | 5:50 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
I am a non-lds, master's degreed, stay-at-home mom. I hate to break this
to you but it seem women beat other women up, emotionally, that make other life
choices different from themselves. It will never cease to amaze me how many
women, it's always women, that tell me how much I am "wasting my
education" by staying at home. It's nice to read someone affirming my
choice every once in awhile. I am also not surprised that other women feel the
need to jump of Beck's words. Instead of this action, I long for the day
when my choice is respected along with the woman that chooses to work outside
the home. So long as we invalidate one another, I know that day is far into the
future.
history lesson | 6:19 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
What many here forget is that Mormon women were feminists and that without their
help, the right to vote may have been quite delayed. Should feminism diminish
the role of motherhood simply because we can now chose to work outside the home?
No!
obvious | 7:44 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
Obvious: get in line everyone. Men speak, women follow. Gee whilikers! Men
know everything, women are to have babies.
The roles were set by God and by God we will follow them.
The roles were set by God and by God we will follow them.
Apply D&C 50 | 8:43 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
All should apply D&C 50 to the Sunstone event (and to everything else going
on around them). Among other things, D&C50 sets out three criteria for
testing whether something is the Spirit of Truth: (1) "he that preacheth
and he that receiveth, understand one another," (2) "both are
edified," and (3) both "rejoice together." It goes on to say
"And that which doth not edify is not of God, and is darkness." Some
of the comments here edify, some do not.
Happy LDS MOTHER | 9:52 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
AMEN, Bear Rug.....some people just HAVE to complain. And yes, the talk was
directed to MOTHERS.
Nose nose & growing | 10:10 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
Some people just need to learn to MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS!
child of God | 10:51 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
I grew up with an alcoholic step father who sexually and emotionally abused me.
I don't feel badly when "I am a Child of God" is sung. I know
the line, "with parents kind and dear" wasn't written for me.
When I sing it I think of what kind of mom I want to be for MY kids. I'm
not offended by the talks about doing what your parents ask. I relize I am not
the audience they are speaking to. Sis. Beck's article wasn't written
to those great sisters who are not married nor to those who are childless. I
feel she was saying to the rest of us, "If your ladder is leaning against
the wrong wall do something about it." I believe some of the people it
bothered feel that way because God has been trying to tell them they need to
improve their parenting and work on their priorities. Yes, mothering is hard
work, she didn't say that it wasn't. I think she was saying that NO
ONE can take the place of a child's mother in loving, raising and being
there for her children.
to child of God | 11:30 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
I agree!!! I have a similar situation. A few years ago I attended a talk given
by the daughter of a prominent member of the Church. Someone asked her what it
was like to have such wonderful parents. Off the top of her head, she
commented, oh it isn't much different than the parenting all good LDS have.
I didn't take offense because she wasn't intending to offend anyone.
She just said what she thought without thinking about those who had a very
different upbringing. She wasn't implying that only the faithful have good
parents. Some could twist her words or take them literally instead of the
spirit with which they were given. She was trying to be humble in saying she
wasn't any different than the rest of us. She just happened to have famous
parents. People looking for the negative will always find it, whether in
religion, neighbors, spouses, floor plans, weather, you name it.
Sarcastic "Obvious"? | 11:35 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
Hope you are! If not, you don't belong most anywhere. I am a woman....I
had two children, but that's only part of what I am. I listen to men,
women and children as they deserve to be listened to. Do I take all they say to
heart? No...(and I'm sure they don't take all I have to say to
heart).
We are all equal...different, but equal. Anybody that says we are not (male, female, gay) etc. will not have a voice for very much longer in the world. Don't believe me? O.k....just watch.
We are all equal...different, but equal. Anybody that says we are not (male, female, gay) etc. will not have a voice for very much longer in the world. Don't believe me? O.k....just watch.
Screenwriter Pete | 11:47 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
This conversation is ripe stuff. I think I could capture it as a screenplay, if
only the Coen Brothers would agree to direct!!!
Suzanne | 11:52 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
Sis. Beck wasn't just speaking to Mothers along the Wasatch front. She was
speaking worldwide. There are some sisters in foreign lands who may not
"know" how to be an LDS Mother. I visit taught a lady from a foreign
country who told me child abuse was acceptable where she came from. If you got
angry, it was okay to punch,hit,bite,kick etc. and there was nothing the kids
could do. She said that after she joined the church and moved to California,
that she learned this was not appropriate. It wasn't because she beat her
kids here and got in trouble. Her children were grown when she moved here. She
said it was the teachings of the Church that showed her the error of her ways. I
grew up in Utah and had a horrible role model for a mother. I'm grateful
for Church leaders, who through their experience, wisdom and example have taught
me through the years.
Anna | 11:56 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
Am I understanding this correctly? It sound like many people are saying that
women who choose a career as a child-care provider are respectable and those who
leave their children with them to go to work are respectable, too, but those who
choose to raise their own kids are slaves? No church leader has ever said
anything that should create feelings of guilt or offense. Women who feel that
way are doing that themselves and should seek help. If the whole world followed
the wise advice of Sis. Beck and the countless other LDS and non-LDS leaders the
best they could within their own circustances, many of the world's problems
would not exist because families would be stronger. It is that simple.
Henry | 12:49 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
Th nose grows longer and the hips grow wider with all these tall tales...lol!
Janet | 1:13 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
Anna, I think that was just the opinion of one person who confronted a commenter
after the panel. None of the panelists suggested that SAHMs don't do
important work (four of us either are or have been SAHMS!). It's
unfortunate the reporter chose to qoute an interchange which didn't come
from the panel and suggest it reflected our views. THat's poor
reporting.
Tuffy Parker: I don't grant your premise, which you state as accepted fact. It begs the question of how many Sunstone attenders you actually know or have spoken with. A minority may be there to push buttons/envelopes, but a large portion of us are, as the Sunstone motto suggests we do, looking for faith in understanding, and understanding through faith.
Tuffy Parker: I don't grant your premise, which you state as accepted fact. It begs the question of how many Sunstone attenders you actually know or have spoken with. A minority may be there to push buttons/envelopes, but a large portion of us are, as the Sunstone motto suggests we do, looking for faith in understanding, and understanding through faith.
Willy | 2:21 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
Gossip Gossip Gossip....don't you have children to attend too?
re:To: Mormonstuckin2008 | 1208 | 2:53 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
So, why are you afraid to answer my question?
You just became indignant, took one question out of context, and danced around it, without answering.
Many moms stay home after the kids are in school.
They hate summers because the kids are home, send them on playdates, let them run the neighborhood and can't wait for school to start, so others can raise their children for them, and they can get back to the life of a SAHM.
They can't even manage that (Wait til your father get's home).
Really, if you cared so much, you would homeschool.
Sister Beck and the church gives mom's a pass, so they can feel good about not being a productive member of society.
I see your kids at church, in stores, running amuck everywhere. If you are a SAHM, then do it!!!
So, I'll just ask again:
"Why are the wives so threatened by the thought of going out and competing for a real job against other women?"
Afraid of losing the title "Queen Bee"?
Women need to have goals past being their husband's cufflinks, and accessory that he polishes up and takes out of the box oncein awhile.
Where is your self-respect?
You just became indignant, took one question out of context, and danced around it, without answering.
Many moms stay home after the kids are in school.
They hate summers because the kids are home, send them on playdates, let them run the neighborhood and can't wait for school to start, so others can raise their children for them, and they can get back to the life of a SAHM.
They can't even manage that (Wait til your father get's home).
Really, if you cared so much, you would homeschool.
Sister Beck and the church gives mom's a pass, so they can feel good about not being a productive member of society.
I see your kids at church, in stores, running amuck everywhere. If you are a SAHM, then do it!!!
So, I'll just ask again:
"Why are the wives so threatened by the thought of going out and competing for a real job against other women?"
Afraid of losing the title "Queen Bee"?
Women need to have goals past being their husband's cufflinks, and accessory that he polishes up and takes out of the box oncein awhile.
Where is your self-respect?
Glenn Foley | 2:58 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
To: "ramper" and others who criticize Sister Beck
I apologize for the misunderstanding of my previous statement "Sisters, know your place." I stand by my words, but I should clarify that my statement was motivated by love. I do not think that I conveyed this intention properly, so I apologize. I do not wish to demean our Sisters. But I do firmly and lovingly point out that for the good of all of us, they need to obey the leadership of the Priesthood and accept their divine role in the Plan.
I do not appreciate the comparison of Sisters' place in the Church with the treatment of Blacks in the 1950's South. Treatment of Blacks in that era was not divinely mandated.
Sisters, when we exhort you to "know your place" and follow the Brethren, we have your happiness in mind.
I apologize for the misunderstanding of my previous statement "Sisters, know your place." I stand by my words, but I should clarify that my statement was motivated by love. I do not think that I conveyed this intention properly, so I apologize. I do not wish to demean our Sisters. But I do firmly and lovingly point out that for the good of all of us, they need to obey the leadership of the Priesthood and accept their divine role in the Plan.
I do not appreciate the comparison of Sisters' place in the Church with the treatment of Blacks in the 1950's South. Treatment of Blacks in that era was not divinely mandated.
Sisters, when we exhort you to "know your place" and follow the Brethren, we have your happiness in mind.
katherine1966 | 3:15 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
As always. no matter what is said we pitch a big fit to make us feel better. I
listened to her talk also..found nothing offensive whatsoever. I do agree..this
world would be a better place and our children would be much better off , if we
could all raise them ourselves and not let day care do it. We all have different
situations at home, some have to work, some choose to, because being a stay at
home mom drives them crazy. She is not the first person, or even actually leader
of another faith that has said we should make our children our first priority.
Even James Dobson says that mothers should put their children first. I was
working to put money away on a downpayment for a new boat..until it hit
me...this is crazy! I quit and KNOW I did the right thing. It is easy to get
carried away in this world where we are taught to be selfish and think of what
makes us happy.
eveonne | 3:23 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
It sounds like the Sunstone Symposium is a sounding board for LDS feminists with
luke-warm testimonies assuaging their guilt over leaving the care of their
children to strangers in pursuit of high stakes jobs. Our hearts go out to women
who are experiencing economic downturns, abandonment issues, or widowhood and
are thus forced into the job market--I think the Lord blesses them with extra
measures of cooperation from their children and the skills and energy necessary
to pull it off. Because let's face it ladies, raising children is a tough
job requiring lots of energy as does an outside job. I found that when I had to
work, my best went to my employer, and my family got left-overs. Important
priorities like family home evening, prayers, and meals sometimes took a
backseat to more engaging activities like soccor or play practice. And who
hasn't, however unconscientiously, tried to buy off kids with stuff to make
up for less time spent with them? The rewards of successful parenting
aren't realized until it's too late to remedy, so we must go by faith
and obedience to council from the Lord and leaders whom I appreciate for their
encouragement and insight.
Julie | 3:49 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
obvious | 7:44 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008
I'm glad the Savior didn't take such an adverse reaction to His role in this world.
I know His sacrifice was a gift to all of us, His brothers and sisters.
I'm glad the Savior didn't take such an adverse reaction to His role in this world.
I know His sacrifice was a gift to all of us, His brothers and sisters.
What the?! | 3:59 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
What? There are still "feminists" around?
Well, I guess everybody needs a hobby.
Well, I guess everybody needs a hobby.
Yes there's still 12 feminist's | 4:06 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
This is the left over dirty dozen (all 12 of them) radical feminist's, left
over from the Alice Paul / Molly Yard movement in the 70's till 1995, that
also don't believe in Sister Beck, or even Mother Goose that is a
well-known figure in the literature of fairy tales and nursery rhymes. Mother
Goose is best known in the United States, in the United Kingdom and other
English speaking nations. She is often prominent in Mother Goose stories, also
more commonly known as nursery rhymes.
Of course it was offensive | 4:13 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
Beck's talk was obviously going to be offensive to many (including LDS
women) who have dramatically changed their views on family roles and
responsibilties. That is, so many in Western Society believe that motherhood is
not a divine calling--but at best equal to a career, just another pursuit.
Attitudes have shifted vastly in recent years in order to take offense at Beck's remarks. Just two to four decades ago, virtually no one would have been offended. Two to four decades ago, her comments would not have even been necessary.
Attitudes have shifted vastly in recent years in order to take offense at Beck's remarks. Just two to four decades ago, virtually no one would have been offended. Two to four decades ago, her comments would not have even been necessary.
Lucy is right | 4:15 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
Most of what I hear from the so-called feminists here (and there are few things
in history that have harmed women more than so-called feminism) makes it clear
that feminists and other similar whiners don't have the faintest clue as to
the experience of men in the Church. We have strict roles and expectations and
limitations imposed on us as well, but without the choice of focusing on just
the home or just a career. We have to do both.
Life is tough for men AND women. I guess the difference is that the men in the Church (as well as the truly faithful sisters) just do what needs to be done and don't waste time whining about things. Sisters, what you want doesn't matter. What God wants is all that matters.
The LDS Church and so-called feminism are incompatible.
It's interesting that the main women in charge of the discussion are famous apostates and professional anti-Mormons. In other words, no legitimacy whatsoever.
For the liberal types I'll say it more simply:
Shut up, stop whining, and quit being so self-absorbed.
Life is tough for men AND women. I guess the difference is that the men in the Church (as well as the truly faithful sisters) just do what needs to be done and don't waste time whining about things. Sisters, what you want doesn't matter. What God wants is all that matters.
The LDS Church and so-called feminism are incompatible.
It's interesting that the main women in charge of the discussion are famous apostates and professional anti-Mormons. In other words, no legitimacy whatsoever.
For the liberal types I'll say it more simply:
Shut up, stop whining, and quit being so self-absorbed.
Haven't notice it here | 4:13 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
I'm a BIC church member raised in the Pacific NW. I hear a lot about Utah
being the depressed-mother capital of the country, but I haven't seen it in
the church up here. I have two LDS female relatives who have gone on meds for
depression: one is bi-polar and was that way before she joined the church, the
other experienced a round of postpartum depression. In neither case did the
church contribute to the problem.
Up here, the church is my support group, my cheering section for the sometimes tedious job of being a mother. I need the church to praise motherhood because it is the only place I get support.
Up here, the church is my support group, my cheering section for the sometimes tedious job of being a mother. I need the church to praise motherhood because it is the only place I get support.
Wondering... | 4:21 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
Are you saying that liberals and the LDS church are incompatible as well?
Get off your high horses | 5:16 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
The SAHM's are the ones who should read Sis Beck's talk and be
offended.
You push out six kids and expect everyone else to raise them.
Please, if you are going to stay home, monitor you kids. They dig in my garden, two young neighborhood girls think it is funny to go door to door Doorbell ditching during the day, and it is repatedly told to the SAHMs, nothing changes.
Where are the SAHM's?
I watch them at church, kids are climping everywhere, coloring, eating food, and SAHM ignores this.
You push them out and expect the world to raise them. Primary tachers, YM and YW leaders, schoolteachers, scoutmasters, and pharmicists with bottles of presciptions to keep them under control.
Then we preisthood bretheren are assigned to go over during the week and clean the cheerios out of the pews.
Be a SAHM, but do it.
Quit being a lazy, sit at home, cookie cutter, prideful, arrogant, plastice mormon, and take Sis Beck's advice and raise your kids.
Quitbeing indignant, judgemental and do your job.
We would all appreciate it.
You push out six kids and expect everyone else to raise them.
Please, if you are going to stay home, monitor you kids. They dig in my garden, two young neighborhood girls think it is funny to go door to door Doorbell ditching during the day, and it is repatedly told to the SAHMs, nothing changes.
Where are the SAHM's?
I watch them at church, kids are climping everywhere, coloring, eating food, and SAHM ignores this.
You push them out and expect the world to raise them. Primary tachers, YM and YW leaders, schoolteachers, scoutmasters, and pharmicists with bottles of presciptions to keep them under control.
Then we preisthood bretheren are assigned to go over during the week and clean the cheerios out of the pews.
Be a SAHM, but do it.
Quit being a lazy, sit at home, cookie cutter, prideful, arrogant, plastice mormon, and take Sis Beck's advice and raise your kids.
Quitbeing indignant, judgemental and do your job.
We would all appreciate it.
Anonymous | 5:27 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
I have seen so many neglected children because of parents selfish desires. I am
for mothers and fathers teaching their children to live Christ like lives. I
sustain all of our leaders and know in the end all blessings are determined by
our agency. Whinning and crying teaches children to be selfish and not putting
faith in the Lord. Just be the best you can be. Children should be loved and
nourished. Look to Christ and live.
ramper | 5:44 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
Re: Glenn Foley
Appreciate your clarification and no need to apologize to me. I may add I did not criticize Sis. Beck. What I criticize is the perception that there is a "one size fits all" plan for people and their mission in life. Each person needs to find that for themselves. A person's personal relationship with the Lord and the Holy Ghost will either confirm or deny the direction others may give. There are some that may want to take the spirits place and manipulate those that think they must just follow without confirmation. That is against what Brigham Young and many other Church leaders have said. When the scriptures talk about 'unrighteous dominion' it points out 'most' in a position to do so will be guilty of that. That is a red flag for us all to be in touch with the Spirit for guidance. When we can accomplish this we will understand the wisdom and inspiration (and times revelation) in our leader's messages and how they pertain to us personally.
Appreciate your clarification and no need to apologize to me. I may add I did not criticize Sis. Beck. What I criticize is the perception that there is a "one size fits all" plan for people and their mission in life. Each person needs to find that for themselves. A person's personal relationship with the Lord and the Holy Ghost will either confirm or deny the direction others may give. There are some that may want to take the spirits place and manipulate those that think they must just follow without confirmation. That is against what Brigham Young and many other Church leaders have said. When the scriptures talk about 'unrighteous dominion' it points out 'most' in a position to do so will be guilty of that. That is a red flag for us all to be in touch with the Spirit for guidance. When we can accomplish this we will understand the wisdom and inspiration (and times revelation) in our leader's messages and how they pertain to us personally.
Wake up People | 5:47 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the responses to this article. As a
male in the LDS church, I was offended at Sister Beck's talk. Women should
choose the life they wish to live and not be relegated to a life of some
"ideal." Just as the woman in this article with the 5 kids should be
allowed to have her children and be happy with her life, another woman should be
fulfilled with a life of work and education if that is her prerogative.
Listener | 6:00 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
The Deseret News should be ashamed to publish an article that so poorly
represents the events it reports. This piece misquotes panelists, misspells the
name of at least one, and selectively emphasizes a few minor details (such as
one comment by one audience member) over some major details (such as the fact
that most of the panelists are themselves dedicated mothers). That's
really unfortunate--it would be far more interesting for the online discussion
to be about what the panelists actually had to say rather than about reductive
cliches and misrepresentations.
Wicked | 6:17 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
To you 500 women: The wicked taketh the truth to be hard. I suggest you
re-read the talk again, and instead of just reading the "Headings" you
read all the sentences inbetween. If you are going to bash Sis. Beck for saying
what she did, then you obviously have an issue with our prophets who have said
the same thing time and again. It is obvious this talk was needed. Women who
know, spend their time wisely instead of trying to tear down leaders of the
church and trying to rationalize and justify their current situation.
Vicki | 7:24 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
There are two main reasons we are uncomfortable with someone's words. One
is that the words are simply not true. The other reason is that the words are
true, but inconsistent with either our current beliefs or practices. Either
Sister Beck's words are inspired or they are not. To LDS women, the answer
is crucial and may likely effect their eternity. I don't care if 500 or
5,000,000 people disagree with Sister Beck. I only care what God thinks about
these issues. I believe it behooves each one of us to ask God. I asked and got
an answer.
re:Wicked | 7:24 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
Do these words mean anything to you?
Judgemental, arrogant, self-centered?
I think these are all "sins", and therfore someone with these traits might also be considered wicked.
Just something to think about.
re: Glenn Foley | 2:58 p.m.
I would suppose that when you suggest that "Sisters, know your place.", most of them know exactly where they are at.
I would guess that "you know" where their place "should" be, but it is not up to you, or me, or Sister Beck to tell anyone where their place is.
Isn't it the gospel plan for all of us to figure that out for ourselves?
I appreciate Sister Beck's "advice and counsel", but other than being just that (has her talk been made a doctrinal cannon yet?) I think the rest of us should listen, she how and if it afects us, and look to the Lord for guidance, follow his promptings, and get out noses out of others lives -- that also means the Sunstone Group.
Judgemental, arrogant, self-centered?
I think these are all "sins", and therfore someone with these traits might also be considered wicked.
Just something to think about.
re: Glenn Foley | 2:58 p.m.
I would suppose that when you suggest that "Sisters, know your place.", most of them know exactly where they are at.
I would guess that "you know" where their place "should" be, but it is not up to you, or me, or Sister Beck to tell anyone where their place is.
Isn't it the gospel plan for all of us to figure that out for ourselves?
I appreciate Sister Beck's "advice and counsel", but other than being just that (has her talk been made a doctrinal cannon yet?) I think the rest of us should listen, she how and if it afects us, and look to the Lord for guidance, follow his promptings, and get out noses out of others lives -- that also means the Sunstone Group.
Re: Clean Up Your Own Backyards | 7:54 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008
You say you have a happy life with great kids. I'm happy for you.
However, in your own admission, you "blew off" Elder Packer's talk and did the same thing to Sis. Beck's talk.
You won't have your picture perfect life for long.
"What?!", you shriek, "how dare you! you narrow minded, judgemental pinhead!"
Yes, I'll warn you again: you won't live in Eden for long. Christ said no man can serve two masters and you just chose yours by "blowing off" the counsel of a prophet, seer and revelator that as a Latter-day Saint you're supposed to sustain. Don't get ticked at me, get ticked at Christ and see how well that works...
"And wo be unto him that will not hearken unto the words of Jesus, and ALSO TO THEM WHOM HE HATH CHOSEN AND SENT AMONG THEM; for whoso receiveth not the words of Jesus AND THE WORDS OF THOSE WHOME HE HATH SENT RECEIVETH NOT HIM; and therefore he will NOT receive them at the last day; And it would be better for them if they had not been born." - 3rd Nephi 28:34-35
The choice is yours, but God's caravan detours for no one.
"
However, in your own admission, you "blew off" Elder Packer's talk and did the same thing to Sis. Beck's talk.
You won't have your picture perfect life for long.
"What?!", you shriek, "how dare you! you narrow minded, judgemental pinhead!"
Yes, I'll warn you again: you won't live in Eden for long. Christ said no man can serve two masters and you just chose yours by "blowing off" the counsel of a prophet, seer and revelator that as a Latter-day Saint you're supposed to sustain. Don't get ticked at me, get ticked at Christ and see how well that works...
"And wo be unto him that will not hearken unto the words of Jesus, and ALSO TO THEM WHOM HE HATH CHOSEN AND SENT AMONG THEM; for whoso receiveth not the words of Jesus AND THE WORDS OF THOSE WHOME HE HATH SENT RECEIVETH NOT HIM; and therefore he will NOT receive them at the last day; And it would be better for them if they had not been born." - 3rd Nephi 28:34-35
The choice is yours, but God's caravan detours for no one.
"
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
- Senators want charges for crashers 7:38 p.m.
- Texas A&M gets unexpected lift 7:36 p.m.
- Wallace leads Pistons past Hawks 7:28 p.m.
- Suns beat Raptors 113-94 7:26 p.m.
- Boy Scouts seek new recruits 7:18 p.m.
- Celtics top Heat 92-85 7:15 p.m.
- Recent prosecutions for Demjanjuk 7:10 p.m.
- German trial is twist for Demjanjuk 7:10 p.m.
- Blood-pressure meds help sugar? 7:09 p.m.
- Magic get 6th straight road win 7:04 p.m.
- Hall mouths off about hate of Utah
- BYU is champion of the state
- Cougars beat Utes in overtime
- Credit Coug defense for win
- Field goals, penalties doomed Utes
- Cougar defense rose to occasion
- Marriage definitions vary widely
- Banged up Jazz get best of Blazers
- Jones' joy for life remembered
- Fantasy is reality for BYU professor
- Hall mouths off about hate of Utah
789 - Cougars beat Utes in overtime468
- Thunder rolls by Jazz136
- BYU is champion of the state129
- Man trapped in Nutty Putty cave dies117
- Cave to be sealed with body inside116
- Editorial: Poor welcome for Palin113
- Rivalry Week is highly profane90
- Hall's legacy measured today79
- Y. focused on 10-win season74
I wanted to tell them not to go. I dropped subtle hints. "My money is on...
When I was a kid, I worshipped my grandpa. He was undoubtedly my hero....
Latest comments
I hope all the BYU fans and all their hate and love of Max Hall had a good...
I'd vote for him any day.
I have not read the 776 comments and won't, so I do not know if this has been...
That Max Hall, being the face of BYU Football as captain & Qb, is such a...
Useful kitchen gadgets: The best knives you can afford. Keep them sharp...
Re: richdaddyo l 6:53 Actually the best team TCU played was BYU, as BYU is...
Furthermore, hardly anyone in Utah gives a rip about this. There are just a...
I'm a long-time fan of the Wheel of Time. The Gathering Storm is spot-on....
He IS the president of the United States. He won. Get over it and if you...
Take care of your family. Good luck
Advertisements
I find odd the pervasive notion that those of us who spoke on the panel found motherhood itself degrading. We all bent over backwards to note that motherhood is essential, that we value it, that those of us who have kids are incredibly grateful for the chance to be mamas. Saying that women are more than "just mothers" doesn't mean motherhood is bad, or wrong--it just means every person is more than one role. We wanted to look both at the role of mothers and the other roles women can play in society. That doesn't denigrate motherhood. Asserting that it does reflects shoddy thinking.
As for Julie Beck: I wouldn't look closely at her words and their effect unless I respected her and the position she holds. Contrary to assumptions here, I'm an active and believing Mormon and SAHM. Consider the possibility that this article didn't reflect the complexity of our remarks. It doesn't. Certainly we didn't slam SAHMs--cuz hey, I am one. I'd have been really annoyed if someone had said I don't matter. Nobody did.