Deseret News | LDS leader's '07 address still causing controversy

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LDS leader's '07 address still causing controversy

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Women "Leaders" | 3:53 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

in the LDS church often make me cringe when I hear them speak. As I listen to them it is apparent that so many of them have never lived overseas or have been exposed to any other culture. One spa=eaker years ago spoke on her daughters dating habits and driving the car to her prom. I wonder how many women and girls in Taiwan, or South America could remoely identify with her talk. The problem is that many LDS Utahns tend to project thier culture to the world and expose thier limited understandings.

I sustain Sister Beck | 3:54 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

Let's get one thing clear here... The LDS church is not a democracy. If you have a problem with the doctine either get over it or leave, it's that simple. The doctrine of the church comes from God, not from men, so who are men (and women) to question the authority and doctrines of God? Come on people! You can argue and 'discuss' all you want, but that will never change the facts or the church's stand on issues. Sister Beck's talk was inspired and would not have been allowed in conference if it was not directly in line with the church's teachings. I find it interesting that a mere 500 women who have taken issue with this talk are getting such media coverage when there are over 5 or 6 million women in the church and the rest of us were uplifted by this talk and grateful to hear it.

Is this a typo? | 3:55 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

The article states that the panel discussed that Sister Becks comments:

"narrow the role of women in the church by minimizing the contribution of those who don't have children and stay at home to raise them"

I would also question the contribution of someone who DOES NOT have children yet STILL insists on staying home to raise them...

Not because I think they're lesser people, but because something fishy must be going on...

Comments continue below

Bear Rug | 3:53 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

I think the problem here, is that there are many people that are looking for an excuse to be offended. Sis. Beck's talk was directed, specifically to MOTHERS. The topic of single mothers and contributions by women--throughout history--has been addressed by leaders on previous occasions. Sis. Beck wanted to address MOTHERS, and their role in raising and nurturing children. You're looking beyond the mark. Sis. Beck's talk did not mention working mothers, single mothers, single women, or divorced OR widowed women. Her remarks were directed at MOTHERS. It is hard to believe that you people could spend several hours dissecting a twenty-minute talk. Don't you have more to do?

Kory | 3:54 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

WWJD

Robert | 3:58 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

As a non-Mormon, I found her talk to be excellent. The lady is right on the money. It is feminist ideology and liberalism that has contributed to the decay of America for many years. If mothers would listen to this woman - not just Mormon mothers, but ALL mothers, our country and our children would be much better off. Women have more "power" then they realize, and that power shows years later when their children grow up to be good men and women - or "not".

Motherhood (and fatherhood) are the most important "jobs" people can undertake. A man (woman) may be CEO of the biggest corporation, but when all is said and done, all that remains (on Earth) after they are gone are their children.

The people who complained about what she had to say should just get a life. No one is forcing them to read/listen to her comments.

Travo | 4:04 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

Sister Beck is in a leadership position but she is not the prophet or an apostle. I don't see her words hold the same weight as thiers.
I can see what she is saying but a more sensitive approach to the situation could work a little better.

Anonymous | 4:04 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

"Aagard was approached by several audience members in the hallway after the presentation, defending her right not to be offended by what church leaders say about her role. One man told her, "You're a slave and you don't even know it.""

Typical hypocrisy from a so-called open-minded liberal!

sadderbutwisergirl | 4:05 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

I hope the responses that this article are sure to generate in this comment section are enlightening. This is a great topic to consider. Often, so much of what it written here is said with such vitriol and anger against the LDS church that the messsage loses all its potential meaning in a rush of negative emotions. Folks, how about thinking first, then writing, and let's get a good dialogue going here. And remember, th fact that someone has a different opinion than your doesn't make yours less valid or theirs wrong.

Realist | 4:08 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

Some people just can't see the eternal perspective can they? They want worldly achievements that won't mean anything in the after life...

Just Wondering... | 4:09 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

Does anyone recall men acting this way after being chewed out by one of the general authorities in the church? Iï¿½ve been to a lot of priesthood sessions and there seems to always be at least one talk from someone telling men to grow up, honor their priesthood, and start acting like men. These talks, while making many men uncomfortable, usually motivate the majority of attendees to be better fathers, husbands, and priesthood holders. Women get a similar talk and they fall to pieces. For years Iï¿½ve thought the female members of the church were more mature and the church would fall apart without them. Maybe I need to reconsider my position.

Anonymous | 4:09 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

I am glad that this topic was brought up. As an Active LDS man, I was troubled by the original 07 talk.
A women's spiritual credit rating is not determined by the number of offspring and BYU grads she raises.

Here remarks were encouraging | 4:13 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

As a father who washes dishes, changes diapers, and reads stories to my children, I am grateful for words of encouragement by Sister Beck for my wife of seven children. On a daily basis, I see what an incredible sacrifice it is for her. Society seems to only validate women whose lives are centered outside the home. I recognize that many women can't have children, and are in the workplace whether they want to be or not. And clearly many of these women are accomplished professionals. But all of that should not diminish the incredible work done by women who are having children and rarely get any validation for doing so.

to I sustain... | 4:16 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

You're dreaming if you think 5-6 million women heard that talk. It's significant that 500 women have risked their membership to talk about how they feel.

You are absolutely correct about the content not being allowed if it wasn't directly in line with church teachings. All talks are vetted beforehand. Interesting that. If the speaker was chosen by inspiration and prepared their talk by inspiration then I suppose it's just good form to double-check them.

Concerned Member | 4:19 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

This is a perfect example where we are called to be in the world but not of the world, we can't secularlize the role of womanhood, nor manhood. There are God ordained roles that are completely equal in necessity and importance. Families are central to God's plan, through the restoration we learn that God blesses us individually in helping us become more christlike, but also blesses us as families. We are called to be good sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, etc. The family is so important to God, and because its so important to God, it should be equally important to us. Satan's greatest weapon is to attack families, to break them up with pride, anger, selfishness. To tear them apart with immorality by breaking law of chastity. Instead of fighting within about what offends us, we should be uniting together to defend the family, to defend the roles of fathers and mothers, to defend the sanctity of marraige, the responsibility of taking care of children, to live the higher law. God is such a loving heavenly Father and I'm so grateful for his Gospel and this church that remains steadfast in an unsteady world.

Thank You Sister Beck | 4:19 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

Thank you Sister Beck for your inspired conference address. The fact that it is stirring so much discussion among these women is evidence that this was exactly what was needed to be said. You are an inspiring leader and your address was a masterpiece.

Man | 4:20 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

I am happy to have my wife work. I lost out on two tenure track positions at BYU because they were being pushed to hire females. Now, I get to send the kids off to school and meet them when they come home. While most men are commuting, I'm playing basketball with the kids. What a deal!

typical responses | 4:20 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

Teaching the ideal does one of a few different things. 1) it draws the ire of those that don't believe that it is the ideal, 2) it makes some who don't live up to the ideal feel guilty, and 3) it makes others who don't live up to the ideal want to strive towards it. This article describes all three responses. Clearly, Church leaders are hoping that people will respond in the third way, while knowing that many will respond in one of the first two ways. However, don't expect Church leaders, like anyone else who strongly believe they are right, to change their tune.

sl | 4:24 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

Sister Beck's talk sopke of an ideal way to mother. Something to strive for. I don't live the ideal she was talking of even though I'm a mother. I work and my husband stays home (working frelance). I wasn't offended by her talk in the least bit. I think people will always look for ways to criticize and she is unfortunately the recipient of the criticism.

suzyk | 4:26 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

To "Women-Leaders". Your comments were based mostly on asssumptions. People with your frame of mind and attitude will always look for the negative as you have done. To "I sustain Sister Beck and Bear Hug "- Bravo to you enlightened women and I ditto everything you said. We do know what is right and will never compromise what we know to be true. We just have to pray for these women who are choosing to question what is good in our lives. Hopefully their eyes will be opened and their hearts softened.

AM | 4:24 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

I feel that church members have given too much weight to Beck's talk. Many church members take everything said by leaders as coming straight from God. Any thinking church member should know that the Lord doesn't really have much to do with his own church. The Lord isn't a micro-manager, or even much of an interventionist. He leaves just about everything up to the discretion of the called leaders who are human and make just as many mistakes as everyone else. Church leaders even sometimes teach things that aren't true, or try to pass off personal opinion as law. The Lord gave us all brains to be used. He doesn't want us to be drones who just accept every little opinion from our chubby bishop on up. We should use our brains to sift through all the garbage fed to us to find and grasp the meaningful truths that present themselves on occasion.

lynn in TN | 4:27 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

She teaches the correct principle, the details are up to you. Chill.

From an LDS Man | 4:27 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

As an LDS man, I am not so interested in the issue of whether Mormon women choose to have advanced degrees and run corporations, or choose to be stay-at-home mothers.

However, I am very interested in the issue of whether Mormon women are adults that intelligently do what they think is best, happily accept full accountability for their decisions, and kindly ignore what anyone else says about it.

Anyone complaining about what Julie Beck said hasnï¿½t yet achieved that maturity, IMHO.

to Robert | 4:30 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

Oh, but every mother in the LDS church is being judged by Ms. Beck's words and is judging herself. My sister is about insane from trying to live all the shoulds of the LDS faith. I worry for her mental health as her anguish in not measuring up continues to plague her. She's a good mum in my opinion, but according to the stick she's being measured with she fails on several fronts so she beats herself with it. She's not alone in this behavior, check out a lot of the neghborhoods around here.

Mc | 4:28 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

I sustain Sis. Beck, too. Everything she said was in keeping with the Proclamation on Families, which I believe came from God. If you don't think it came from God, then you don't believe that a prophet of God leads this Church. Sis. Beck was giving counsel to mothers this time, but I've heard many other talks and Ensign articles that counsel single women in the Church. I don't resent those talks because I am not single. If they don't mention mothers when they talk about the accomplishments of single women who have been able to do great things, I don't feel slighted and demand that they include motherhood in every talk. I respect what many single women have done to contribute to society in ways that I couldn't do while raising children, but I have no regrets and have great joy in what I am doing. I have often found that respect does not go both ways and some are openly disrespectful with comments like the man in the article, which demean not only the person but motherhood itself.

Teenage son | 4:31 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

When I heard Sister Beck's talk I thought she must know my mother because she described her in detail. Our family, our community and the world is- has been- and will continue to be blessed because I have a "mother who knows".

Peter | 4:34 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

You LDS women that get offended so easily need to humble yourselves and understand and accept your role. Sister Beck knows her role and plays it very well. Please follow her example.

Sleuth | 4:40 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

The message is for all women in all places, times, and circumstances. LDS leaders clearly define the role of motherhood, because that is the revelation. It is not to the exclusion of other roles attained for temporal fulfillment. But let's face it, there isn't a great demand for doctors, attorneys, etc. of either gender in the next world, according to Mormon theology.

Motherhood is the essential role in this life fulfilling the ordinances and covenants, which lead to eternal life. Women subjected to other roles through circumstances beyond their control are exempted and not demonized by Church. Simply put, motherhood is the prime focus in this life.

Men can play the same game, Fatherhood is the prime role for men and that's restrictive. But men also know fatherhood is not going to work without accomplishing other things to support it. .

Auxiliary roles do not void the preeminence in the divine warnings. Motherhood and fatherhood are the unambiguous, unequivocal goals in this mortal experience; all things being equal. If they are not achieved when one is able to achieve them, then so be it. Yet, if they can be, the rules are clear to everyone.

jrccmsmom | 4:44 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

People, people, people... Did you listen to the same talk that I did? Nowhere did it say that we were just supposed to become the best homemakers in the world. There were so many great and wonderful things in that talk - she talked about standing strong and immovable in faith. She asked all LDS women to have a current temple recommend, pray every day, follow the Holy Ghost, study the scriptures. She talked of standing strong and immovable in family and DEFENDING the family. She talked of standing strong and immovable in relief which means to lighten up and lift others. Again, I say, people, people, people, were you even listening to the same talk I heard and have reread several times?

Shirley L. | 4:47 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

I really do not understand why women think this talk did not respect their roles as mothers. It exalts the role! I agree with Robert that feminism has made our society decay. It has made men uncertain of who they are, and what their contribution to the world is.
Children need their mothers. I love the saying, "The Hand that Rocks the Cradle rules the World." The fact that women are generally natural nurtures makes them good at raising children. You can look at the problems in schools of late...Columbine for example, and I'll bet you that those boys did not have parents who were available to talk to when they got home from school and had had difficulties they needed to talk about. My children, who are all raised and have children of their own, were always anxious to get home to share their day with me, and I was always there to hear it. School can be a cruel place. But, if parents are available and sympathetic and loving, the children will be all right.
May our Heavenly Father especially bless those women who are raising their children alone and need to work outside the home.

Every Bishop | 4:48 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

I know (and my own experience was the same) sees that women in the ward who struggle with understanding / living the principals mess up the ward. Men in those same circumstances mess up their families. Neither is good, both are messy, but I have no idea why it is that women seem determined to address their issues on a larger stage. Maybe it's the "validation" issue mentioned in other's comments. But my own experience is that we all get a lot more accomplished by being kind and considerate, rather than by being confrontational and combative. Can you picture Sister Beck responding with the invective we've seen from those who chose to be offended by her? Hmmmmm. Maybe there's a lesson there.

I think.... | 4:51 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

The Church teaches the ideal. They are very aware that not everyone fits in the "perfect mold", but we are striving to be as close to the ideal as possible. If women are trying to decide how to use their talents and energy, it is nice to have some kind of guide of the most important way we might use our time. I think a lot of the response of these women is that they feel insecure about their roles or feel that the Church is looking down on them for how their lives have turned out, which is not the case. If this talk does nothing more than help one woman decide to stay home with her kids instead of taking them to daycare, IF she has that option, perhaps it is effective. I learn so much from the other mothers around me. We are all different and have so much to offer, no matter our individual circumstances.

Anonymous | 4:53 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

If I was a woman in the church I think that I too would be offended. Yes there's a hierachy in the church headed by Prophets and Apostles but anyone that says that the woman's role is minimalized by church leaders and ward members is in a dream world. Parents role is to teach and nuture there children, you can have worldly success such as being a CEO or a corporation and still be a good mother and it teaches your kids a lot. How can a girl that starts being a baby machine at 18 with no education intellectually stimulate and teach their children? The simple fact is being a mother and being a good mother isn't one way or one thing. Families, parents, and siblings come in various forms. There's no one right way as long as there's love, respect, and security in the family unit.

simple minded | 4:54 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

This is too narrowminded!

RE: Just Wondering | 4:57 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

Are you speaking of your concern for the majority of the "female members" or for just a few. Obviously, it would apply to just a few as is noted in the 3:54 pm comment.

re: Just Wondering | 4:55 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

Well said...

suzanne | 4:57 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

I enjoyed her talk and thought then it would probably offend some people because there are always those who are offended by the truth. Everyone, regardless of marital status, children etc. just need to do their very best every single day to be the very best person they can.

re: Just Wondering | 4:57 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

I agree. I thoroughly enjoy the General Priesthood meetings with the straight-forward talks, the lack of "beating-around-the-bush" and the expectation the Priesthood holders would "man-up" and do the things they have already committed to do. As for the wonderful sisters, they really don't get the credit they deserve. For the rest, who take offense at the teachings, sorry. It's your issue, not mine.

To Just Wondering | 5:01 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

It doesn't sound to me that the women are "falling to pieces" -- more like they're speaking up for themselves on both sides of the issue. I have heard many men grumble about the types of talks you mention, but they seem fine with the slow burn of irritation.

What did NOW do? | 5:01 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

I'm sorry that people in general need to define their lives by the professions they persue. I am a man and would give up everything I've gained for my family and their spiritual, and societal success.

Boo Hoo to you men and women that gauge your successes by the $$$$$ in your pockets. Or VP plaque on your door.

True success is measured by the fruits you bear in society whether those fruits be spiritual, children, humanitarian, foster care, etc... Loving our neighbor, that's what counts.

Dads - Provide for and protect your family. Help your wives with ALL she's in need of. She has a much tougher responsibility than you anyway.

Moms - Nurture and raise your children to be positive influences on society. Sustain and support your husbands, because you can be their largest ego inflators and they like that.

Moms & Dads - Stop being selfish, stop comparing yourselves against one another, love each other and sustain each other in your roles, help each other out in your roles, raise good kids (if you are able to bear), be good neighbors, and enjoy this short life with that which really counts, and that is FAMILY!

Johnson323 | 5:02 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

Every talk cannot address the specifics of every person who hears it.No talk can be everything to everybody. Speakers are humans not omniscient.
This article does not denigrate women without children in any way. It merely points out the value and blessings that can be derived from motherhood for everyone. It doesn't say it is easy.

Re: Just Wondering... | 5:03 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

I am a female and I did not "fall apart". In fact I was inspired to be better and find more ways to have joy in my motherhood role.
500 women who "fall to pieces" is not all or even a lot of LDS Mothers.

RE: Just Wondering | 5:03 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

You nailed it on the head, I agree whole-heartedly.

We men get a good "takin' to the woodshed" at just about every priesthood session, and while I'm sure some can't handle it and get offended, I sure appreciate it and try to be a better husband and father.

All members need to remember that this is a voluntary membership organization, anyone can leave at any time, but the doctrine is not on a menu. We can't just pick the parts we like and leave the rest, as you can with other religions. If it's true, and there's a living prophet, then he speaks for God and there's really no room for quibbling.

And I haven't heard the General Authorities taking back anything that was said by Sis. Beck, so I take that as being affirmed and condoned by our prophet.

There just isn't any room for argument in a voluntary membership organization that claims leadership directly from God. Either it's true and you follow it, or it's not and you don't.

Random | 5:04 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

Thank you, Robert, for a reasonable and logical comment. All mothers, LDS or not, should want to raise their children well.

Wow... | 5:11 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

Sister Beck's talk is still being discussed amongst women? Get a life Sisters. If it is still such a top priority in your lives to make a big fuss over it, then you are taking it upon yourselves to be offended. Is it a quilty conscience? Get over it. Are you going to lose your membership if you are working to support a family? I think NOT.

I'm sure the Brethren understands your individual circumstances. Sister Beck's talk was one that was needed to be heard and said. You still have your free agency though...

Curious | 5:12 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

I wonder how many of those who continue to disect Sister Beck's remarks and complain about them saw or read the last Worldwide Leadership Training. Of particular significance were Elder Holland's remarks about patterns and the round table discussion that included Sister Beck and at least two apostles along with another sister. Without referring to the protests, they all made remarks that should have calmed these folks down. Unless they are specifically looking for something to protest as opposed to gaining real understanding.

Anonymous | 5:14 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

I have three wonderful daughters. Two are single, one is married with a child. The married daughters wish they were married but are pursuing other worthwhile goals (education, service to the community etc.). The married daughter sometimes feels that she is under appreciated because so much is said about the kinds of the things that the other daughters are doing, even among church members. I think Sister Beck's talk was meant not to less the importance of the contributions of women involved in other things, but as a counterbalance to indicate to women who are primarily caring for children, that they are doing a good and important thing, too.

Anonymous | 5:17 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

President Beck's discourse was most remarkable! She quoted scriptures never before quoted in Conference. It would do us all well that we would have her deep understanding. She knows her doctrine like no other and should be heeded. I have nothing but praises for her valued wisdom!

Perspective | 5:19 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

Whatwomenknow.org is basically espouses that all genders are equal in capabilities and purposes. Reading through the previous comments I am surprised to find that others have reacted to a General Authority affirming church teachings. Isn't that what is expected?

As for 500 women risking membership; I am very skeptical. How do you know if they are members? I am sure most of them are but how do we know?

Lucy | 5:25 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

If men were to get as upset by the Brethren beating on them about pornography, the women of the church would be up in arms. If you're upset by Sis. Beck's talk, maybe it's time to ask yourself why. Ladies, cowboy up!

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