Deseret News | Reader comments: Cross is called 'stumbling block'

Reader comments
Cross is called 'stumbling block'

SGB | 3:18 a.m. Aug. 9, 2008

Probably nothing wrong with eating fish on Friday either.

Moving Closer to Jesus | 7:51 a.m. Aug. 9, 2008

It's about time. Trying to be different and "special" is only working on the offspring of current LDS members. To bring in new "tithing-paying" members through-out the world, you have to use the main-stream religious symbols. You have already made progress in rarely using the word "prophet" and instead now use "religious, church, or faith leader".

Anonymous | 8:58 a.m. Aug. 9, 2008

again morman aren't in the 20th century. and christ died on a cross. and thats a sign that he will return to the cross one day. mormon's need to learn more about religion. know one really knows forsure what joseph smith saw because know one was with him/ and how many rule have changed in the church since the book of morman was wrote. the president and his 12 has changed quite abit

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 9:11 a.m. Aug. 9, 2008

Thank you Brother Reese for speaking about the unspeakable... I was told as a young fellow that we do not worship symbols!!! well the exception being the
statues of that certain angel that adorn our temples.... X Loaner in Boulder Creek

Clementine | 9:17 a.m. Aug. 9, 2008

The Cross became popular as a Christian symbol in the Fifth Century A.D., according to the Israel Museum. Furthermore, the first general use of the cross was on the shields of the Emperor Constantine's soldiers. He attributed his victory over a competing force for the Roman Empire to the cross. For this reason, he converted from paganism to Christianity

. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) believe the proper Christian symbol is Christï¿½s resurrection , not his crucifixion on the Cross. Many Mormon chapels feature paintings of the resurrected Christ or His Second Coming. Furthermore, members of the church believe the major part of Christï¿½s atonement occurred in the Garden of Gethsemane as Christ took upon him the sins of all mankind

Rob | 9:58 a.m. Aug. 9, 2008

"For the preaching of the cross is foolishness to them which are perishing, but to us being saved, it is the power of God unto salvation" (1 Cor. 1:18). "But God forbid that I should glory save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world" (Gal. 6:14).

Anonymous | 11:21 a.m. Aug. 9, 2008

I have no problem seeing someone wear a cross around their neck nor do I have a problem seeing a cross on another church. So why do so many people have a problem with my choice not to wear a cross or to attend a church without a cross on it. You do not have to wear a cross to be a Christen.... I believe in Christ, I worship Christ. I do not have to wear anything in order to prove that to anyone. I try to show my beliefs in the way I live.

Anonymous | 12:30 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008

i was batized in church. but it wasn't a morman church. does that mean i'm going to hell. because i'm not a morman. i think jesus christ is there for all of us, not just for the mormon's. the morman's thinks jesus christ is just for all there beliefs. well i believe in jesus christ. and i pray to him every day. for my son he's in the air force and he's in iraq for the 7th time. i pray for jesus to keep him safe and protect him. and so far jesus has kept him safe. amd my sons got 4 more years to serve plus more. he's been there since 18 years old and now 26. and jesus christ is there for him and he's not a morman

Anonymous | 12:38 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008

if there a church of jesus christ. all people should be aloud. but they don't alow all people so how can they call there selve's a church. you can go to any other church and they say welcome come on in. now in morman church. it's stop right there your not a church member. and a temple is a church and i say jesus christ would say welcome come on in to my house.

The cross as a symbol | 12:59 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008

is protestant. The crucifix is Catholic. LDS are Christian but neither protestant nor Catholic. If the LDS adopted the cross as a iconic symbol it would just be one more move toward looking like a protestant church, which it is not. If a symbol of some sort is desired another one should be adopted. The dove I believe has also been taken by the protestants as has the fish. I was speaking to a Jehovah's Witness the other day and he brought up the use of the cross. They do not use it either, for different reasons than the mormoms, but he had a good point. Why do they use a cross? It was the common form of execution for the day. Many, Many people died on the cross. I doubt the Christians of the that day would appreciate the modern use of the cross as the symbol for their Savior. He went on to question if Christ had been shot, would we see guns as the symbol? Hung, a noose? I'm not LDS or JW, but I can't say I disagree with this man's thoughts on the symbol.

JDD | 2:22 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008

Dear Anonymous,

Not meaning any disrespect, but your understanding of Mormonism and Mormon theology is not correct. I invite you to learn a bit more about what Mormons actually believe before criticizing them. Try www.mormon.org. Also, the word "Mormon" has no "a" in it. (No worries...I'm a terrible speller. The only reason I know how to spell Mormon is because I am one! :) )

Best of luck to you.

ramper | 3:50 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008

Both the cross and the fish were taken as symbols by Christians from pagan roots (along with the calender and some holidays). Personally, I think the Mormon symbol should be something that signifies a 'meeting', since most of the time we seem to be in one.

Cross me off | 4:36 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008

The Cross is no stumbling block for me!

When it comes to instruments of death, I actually prefer a Shotgun to the Cross. I simply drilled a hole in the barrel and fastened it to a chain so I could display it around my neck. Am I good or what?

Anonymous | 4:40 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008

No offense to those who do, but do we really need a symbol?

Anonymous | 5:02 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008

If this was the time of the earthly ministry of the savior and the vessel of his death was a handgun, would future followers were handguns on necklaces or put them on the top of there places of worship?

Cynics Do Not Contribute. | 6:14 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008

Again the Sunstone Symposium has spoken. I'm glad DN has included the disclaimer that the SS is not associated with the Church. Sunstone Symposium is the writer of such amazingly earth-shattering insights as "Mormons Can be Nudists too."

I'm waiting for their expose on why the Church hyphenates 'Latter-Day.' Or how about the water cooler conspiracy (why every meeting house has water coolers when most public buildings do not). Maybe they'll shake up the Church by an exploration of why missionaries should have short hair.

The Flat Earth Society is more useful to society than Sunstone.

Critics do not contribute, and cynics do not create.

pioneer | 9:25 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008

Anonymous,

Everyone is welcome at the Mormon churches. All members who are worthy are welcome in the temples, in order to preserve the sacredness and sanctity of the temple.

We would love to have you join us on Sundays at any meetinghouse, even if you are just curious and want to know more! Visiting mormon.org is also a great idea.

BYU Wannabee | 10:23 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008

I want to be just like you.
"OBEY & FOLLOW"

Interesting. | 10:35 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008

I don't understand why any Christian would shy away from preaching Christ crucified. As St Paul proclaimed,

1 Corinthians 1:23 "but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles...".

better idea | 11:08 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008

As a symbol of Mormonism I prefer the mini-van or the Suburban. Think about it; if you see one of these vehicles headed down the road filled with kids, there's not much doubt about the religious persuasion of the occupants.

Taylor Seltzer | 1:28 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008

Our faith isn't in the cross, its in Jesus. We don't need a Idol to present to the world to satisify the world. as Pres Hinckley said; "Our Symbol of Christ is in the way we live our Lives." Our testimony of our belief that Christ Lives, Yes he was nailed to a cross and died for us, but he rose again. and He lives today. So we can live aswell. the cross is a symbol of the death of Jesus, its what satin revelled in. but 3 days Later he rose from the dead.
And He lives Still! and I don't need a cross to remind me of that. Im reminded in the scriptures, each time I read. and he reminds me many times a day in the things around me, in the people I deal with.
and hopefully they see him in me, or I still have plenty of work to do to me.

Anonymous | 2:22 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008

Well, I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Being the second fasting growing religion, we have no problem with membership, if that is what you mean by being different or special.

We believe in a Prophet and use the word prophet all the time, just like in the Bible.

As far as witnesses, read the the Testimony of Eight Witness and The Testimony of Eight Witness in the first few pages in the Book of Mormon. Also you could say all of us members are witnesses.

The scriptures Rob quoted refer to Christ's Atonement, in which we do believe, not just what he was nailed to. So I guess Rob interprets the scripture differently.

A Temple is not a church, it is a Temple. There is a difference and being ours we get to decided what it is. Anyone is welcome to our services at our church meetinghouses. Also anyone can attend ordinances at our Temples if a worthy member and bearing a recommend.

We have missionaries to share that Jesus Christ atoned for everyones sins.

Oh, btw, we don't worship Angel Moroni's on temples.

Keeping praying and I'll see you at services!

Spawn | 8:21 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008

I just love it. People can not wait to try to find something wrong with the church. I love this church and everything about it. So we don't have crosses on the building who really cares. She you really judge a church on the things that are displayed on the building. Does that add or take away from what is taught in the building. People should really start worrying more about whats going on at here church and not how are church is design. Bottom line tis church is true and all of your negativity can not stop this gospel from growing.

Ted | 10:56 p.m. Aug. 10, 2008

I was born and raised in the Church. Ever since about the age of 13, I have worn a cross necklace under my shirt and garments. I wore it my entire mission, and I still wear it today. It is very sacred to me and I would not remove it just as I would not remove my garments.

Sarah | 4:17 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

Okay there are a couple of comments that are off topic. I agree with most of the people on here who say that wearing a cross does not mean that we aren't Christian. I appreciated one of the non-LDS people on here saying that we are Christian but neither Catholic or Protestant.

To me the cross does symbolize the Death of my Savior. I rejoice in the resurrection of my Savior. I also rejoice that we have the full Gospel here on earth. Though I have a cross necklace (It belonged to my Great-Grandma) I don't wear it, but I cherish it because it has sentimental value because I barely knew the women it belonged too and what she thought of her relationship with Jesus Christ.

We welcome all people who want to come for Church Services. Find your local Chapel and come in on Sunday.

May God Bless all of you.

Raymond Takashi Swenson | 1:16 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008

The key point in the story is that Protestants saw the cross and specifically the crucifix (with a model of Christ being crucified) as a symbol of the Roman Catholic Church and even a form of idolatry. They did not widely use crosses as a symbol in or on church buildings until well into the 19th Century, so the practice is an innovative custom that is barely 150 years old. What Rees said was correct, that Joseph probably never saw a church building with a cross in his lifetime. The old New England churches built by the Puritans and preserved in their original form have no crosses on them. When Paul wrote about the "cross of Christ" he was referring to the Savior's actual atoning death, he was NOT telling the Christians to carry crosses on chains or put them on their homes (the church met in houses, not separate buildings). Constantine used the symbol of the letter "X" (Chi) over "P" (Rho, "R") NOT a cross. Crucifixes were used to teach mostly illiterate people about Christ in a time when taverns and retail stores used symbols. Carrying crosses is not mandated in the Bible and is a recent innovation.

Jacob | 5:07 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008

Raymond,

Nice history. But it says nothing about why LDS people OPPOSE the wearing of a cross. There is no reason for it. Whether it is a recent development or not, there is no reason to oppose it. The fish >O was also used anciently as a symbol of Christians, as did an "anchor". These symbols have a longer tradition among Christians than the Cross. But LDS people and leaders oppose the use of the cross for some reason. I suspect they also oppose the use of the Christian fish, as well, but there is no reason for that, either. Instead, the LDS Church and community has some strange need to distance themselves and create their own symbols. They have the CTR symbol, for instance. Why? Why try to be different for no other reason than to be different? It would go a long way if the Church would not try so hard to be exclusive and act all uppity and, instead, share some of the commonalities of faith of all Christians, such as simple symbols.

Mr. Swenson has a good | 10:09 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008

point. I live in New England and most of the old churches do not have crosses on them. No Protestant churches have crucifixes on or in them, that is a Catholic Icon. I'm not sure if the Orthodox Churches also use cruicifixes, I've never been inside a Greek Orthodox building, which are prevelant in our area. They have very ornate Crosses on top. I have been in many Catholic and Protestant churches and only the newest Protestants use the cross. Even then in our area, they use it sparingly. More out of the local custom than belive because their words are heavily laden with references to the Cross. Jacob, I'm not LDS but I don't see the lack of a use of this symbol as uppity. Their religion does focus more on the risen savior. My father, a Pentecostal, used to avoid churches who never spoke about anything but the death of Christ on the Cross and forget the part that he had risen. He always felt there was more work done by Christ than just his sacrifice. He liked to hear about both.

traveling morman | 1:03 p.m. Aug. 18, 2008

i am a morman who has seen "crosses" in church. now one does need to look beyond the typical "cross" but i see a "cross" in most chapels behind the podium. when you think of a man standing with his arm outstretched you can see a "cross" in the design elements of the building.
for 30 years i have wondered why we are instructed to look the other way when someone mentions the symbol of the cross. so i set out to find my own cross in the chapel and i have.

Abdulla | 11:32 a.m. Sept. 5, 2008

".[Christians believe].... the cross is the symbol of the dying Christ, while our [LDS] message is a declaration of the Living Christ."

The Cross is the symbol of victory and the risen Christ, thats what Christians around the world believe. The author painted a wrong picture when he said the above statement.

Good article though.

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