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Suit may destroy UEP Trust of FLDS
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A laugher | 5:46 a.m. July 31, 2008
Just have to love attorney's who always come up with clever ways to justify
their savage-like pursuit of money. The UEP should be off limits to this
lawsuit.
Go Elisa! | 7:01 a.m. July 31, 2008
And may a line of injured form quickly behind her. Warren Jeffs has wrecked
havoc on many lives. Though he cannot heal the injured, perhaps if the injured
demand justice in whatever ways they can, then others will not be injured in the
future.
Cats | 7:35 a.m. July 31, 2008
I hope Elissa Wall wins this lawsuit and gets all the assets of the FLDS. I
also hope she makes millions off her book. She should be compensated for the
evil that has been perpetrated on her. Unfortunately, there are many, many
other victims. These people have been living a lie and engaging in fraud and
immorality for generations.
Actually, these people need help. If this sick church crashes and these men are finally held accountable for their actions, they might have a chance.
You can only go on flaunting the law and living an immoral life for so long before it catches up with you. The day of reckoning eventually arrives. GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED. False prophets eventually destroy themselves.
I hope these people have a chance for a real life now. GO ELISSA!!!
Actually, these people need help. If this sick church crashes and these men are finally held accountable for their actions, they might have a chance.
You can only go on flaunting the law and living an immoral life for so long before it catches up with you. The day of reckoning eventually arrives. GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED. False prophets eventually destroy themselves.
I hope these people have a chance for a real life now. GO ELISSA!!!
Comments continue below
California Andy | 8:10 a.m. July 31, 2008
If this lawsuit is allowed, then every FLDS member should also sue the trust to
get what they can from it. Ask for their home title, return of their monies
invested. That should tie things up and prevent the greedies from going after
the entire pot.
I concur with the many writers on polygamy. In itself, it is not evil. Here in California it is now legal for two homosexuals (too nice a word) to marry, so what is wrong with polygamy? I laugh at the "Progresives" who suddenly love everything Islamofascist. Polygamy is part of the creed. Are we going to allow them to have serveral wives when they immigrate to this nation and say it is okay because it is part of their religion? But not the FLDS? It's coming, all you "deep thinkers," so start getting your excuses ready now.
I concur with the many writers on polygamy. In itself, it is not evil. Here in California it is now legal for two homosexuals (too nice a word) to marry, so what is wrong with polygamy? I laugh at the "Progresives" who suddenly love everything Islamofascist. Polygamy is part of the creed. Are we going to allow them to have serveral wives when they immigrate to this nation and say it is okay because it is part of their religion? But not the FLDS? It's coming, all you "deep thinkers," so start getting your excuses ready now.
Cats | 10:12 a.m. July 31, 2008
I hope Elissa does retire wealthy. I hope she does it on the money she gets
from the perpetrators of the crimes against her and others.
By the way the FLDS bloggers come on here and spew hatred at her, I'm beginning to think that they are some of the perpetrators.
I guess you have to try everything to protect yourself
By the way the FLDS bloggers come on here and spew hatred at her, I'm beginning to think that they are some of the perpetrators.
I guess you have to try everything to protect yourself
MoJules | 10:39 a.m. July 31, 2008
First, I do hope that she wins, and that this group stop all their bleeding of
money from each other and from the tax payers. Second, I would hope that
Ms.Wells would set up trusts to help the mothers and children in this group to
get some training and help in becoming self reliant. She could set something up
like the LDS church has, the PEF, I do not think that she is going after this
for greed, I think that she is going after this to stop the abuse in this group,
and the pocket book is one good way.
realitycheck | 11:01 a.m. July 31, 2008
I think the lawsuit should go through and the long line of victims should get
their share. I think YFZ ranch should become part of the deal.
The people living in old Short Creek will need to move elsewhere and go out and get real jobs, just like in Texas. That will allow their children to experience other cultures. That will promote free will.
Even if none of the physical abuse charges are true, these people are indoctrinated religious extremists and their children are raised facing no choices in their future. Their futures are predetermined. That in itself is child abuse.
Religious extremism (and make no mistake - the FLDS are religious extremists) is never good for anyone but the leaders. And after generations, it's very hard to promote free will to the women and children. (Just look at the Middle East.)
The best way to promote freedom within the FLDS is by forcing them to join the rest of America in some fashion, so future generations can see that they in fact DO have choices. (If Sally gets to fall in love and choose her husband, why can't I. Hey, Bobby's going to State U, why can't I? etc)
The people living in old Short Creek will need to move elsewhere and go out and get real jobs, just like in Texas. That will allow their children to experience other cultures. That will promote free will.
Even if none of the physical abuse charges are true, these people are indoctrinated religious extremists and their children are raised facing no choices in their future. Their futures are predetermined. That in itself is child abuse.
Religious extremism (and make no mistake - the FLDS are religious extremists) is never good for anyone but the leaders. And after generations, it's very hard to promote free will to the women and children. (Just look at the Middle East.)
The best way to promote freedom within the FLDS is by forcing them to join the rest of America in some fashion, so future generations can see that they in fact DO have choices. (If Sally gets to fall in love and choose her husband, why can't I. Hey, Bobby's going to State U, why can't I? etc)
Not FLDS | 11:24 a.m. July 31, 2008
Cats, believe it or not, some of us posters are certainly NOT FLDS.
But fair is fair. If Elissa is compensated to the degree she desires, what about others who have not even come forward yet? Or what about those who are not willing or able to come forward? Or what about the children living in those homes, whose parents earned them--are they to be homeless to compensate ONE young woman?
Let her go after Warren Jeffs, who required her marriage to her cousin. Let her go after her cousin if she wants to. I wouldn't argue with that. The courts can decide. But to harm a whole group of people for one's own benefit is selfish.
As a rape victim myself, money wouldn't begin to erase the trauma of what happened to me. Money isn't everything. It isn't really much of anything, when you come down to it.
Justice might be--but it's not justice to punish the innocent to get at the guilty.
Polygamy may be against the law, but all the members whose assets are in that trust have not been convicted of anything. It is illegal in America, and unjust, to punish unconvicted people.
But fair is fair. If Elissa is compensated to the degree she desires, what about others who have not even come forward yet? Or what about those who are not willing or able to come forward? Or what about the children living in those homes, whose parents earned them--are they to be homeless to compensate ONE young woman?
Let her go after Warren Jeffs, who required her marriage to her cousin. Let her go after her cousin if she wants to. I wouldn't argue with that. The courts can decide. But to harm a whole group of people for one's own benefit is selfish.
As a rape victim myself, money wouldn't begin to erase the trauma of what happened to me. Money isn't everything. It isn't really much of anything, when you come down to it.
Justice might be--but it's not justice to punish the innocent to get at the guilty.
Polygamy may be against the law, but all the members whose assets are in that trust have not been convicted of anything. It is illegal in America, and unjust, to punish unconvicted people.
not their money anymore | 12:03 p.m. July 31, 2008
re - Not FLDS 11:24am
what you fail to realize is that the money in the trust is no longer those people's money. It is the church trust's money. The FLDS parents GAVE IT AWAY, freely and purposely. If they wanted the money and the property, they should have kept it, not given it to the church.
It's another case of the FLDS parents being more concerned with the church than with their own family.
Perhaps someday they will realize that their family is more important than a church or a religion.
So maybe next time they are going to give something away, hopefully they will stop and think "hey - if I give it away, it's no longer mine. I see how it works now. Perhaps I should keep it for my family..."
It's not rocket science.
what you fail to realize is that the money in the trust is no longer those people's money. It is the church trust's money. The FLDS parents GAVE IT AWAY, freely and purposely. If they wanted the money and the property, they should have kept it, not given it to the church.
It's another case of the FLDS parents being more concerned with the church than with their own family.
Perhaps someday they will realize that their family is more important than a church or a religion.
So maybe next time they are going to give something away, hopefully they will stop and think "hey - if I give it away, it's no longer mine. I see how it works now. Perhaps I should keep it for my family..."
It's not rocket science.
IF......... when............ | 12:12 p.m. July 31, 2008
If President of the LDS church did something or the Pope... who do the victims
sue????? The church... and it's funds..... Even if it is a member of either
church the victim sues the church not the person personally.
NO different here..... Maybe this will cause them to disband. If not, at least stop this crazy child bride practice.
NO different here..... Maybe this will cause them to disband. If not, at least stop this crazy child bride practice.
Mother of a young girl | 12:28 p.m. July 31, 2008
I am tired of FLDS supporters pointing at the rest of society and saying that
since they aren't as bad, it justifies their actions.
There is a difference between a girl that gets pregnant against her parents' wishes, and while sneaking around, and an FLDS teen whose parents married her off before she was done growing up. It is the same difference between a kid who ties a bedsheet around his neck, tapes an "S" on his chest, and jumps off the roof and a kid whose parents shove him off the roof. Kids do stupid things. As parents, we are supposed to teach them better and stop them, not encourage the bad.
Elissa Wall was shoved off the roof, and the wealthy man who did it has all of his assets in the trust. I hope she gets the money.
There is a difference between a girl that gets pregnant against her parents' wishes, and while sneaking around, and an FLDS teen whose parents married her off before she was done growing up. It is the same difference between a kid who ties a bedsheet around his neck, tapes an "S" on his chest, and jumps off the roof and a kid whose parents shove him off the roof. Kids do stupid things. As parents, we are supposed to teach them better and stop them, not encourage the bad.
Elissa Wall was shoved off the roof, and the wealthy man who did it has all of his assets in the trust. I hope she gets the money.
yes, I'm judgmental | 1:48 p.m. July 31, 2008
It's not JUST about money- it's about child abuse. Don't forget
that part. Little girls who don't have a choice.
OBSERVER | 2:50 p.m. July 31, 2008
The court system was used to destroy (a) the Indian Movement and (b) the Black
Panther Movement and NOW the (c) "FLDS CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT."
To mother | 3:42 p.m. July 31, 2008
You make a good point. However, all over America there are mothers who draw
welfare and encourage their daughters to have babies at young ages to keep the
money coming in. They encourage the girls to drop out of school, too. And they
aren't FLDS. It's been going on for nearly fifty years and as a
taxpayer, I'd like that stopped, too.
I don't live in Utah--I've lived all over the country and seen the welfare ghettos and worked with the young adults who come from those backgrounds, and believe me, they are worse off in their abilities to function in the real working world than anybody else I know.
Our family chose a lifestyle that some of you would apparently consider "extremist" ourselves--we grew our own food organically, taught our children how to do many different sorts of work, encouraged them to have trades to fall back on, homeschooled or privately schooled. What did we get? Daughter who graduated from Ricks at 18, one son an MBA, another valedictorian of a well-known law school, a son commissioning in the Air Force as a pilot--one son still working in the building trades.
Extremist? Maybe, but successful, too.
I don't live in Utah--I've lived all over the country and seen the welfare ghettos and worked with the young adults who come from those backgrounds, and believe me, they are worse off in their abilities to function in the real working world than anybody else I know.
Our family chose a lifestyle that some of you would apparently consider "extremist" ourselves--we grew our own food organically, taught our children how to do many different sorts of work, encouraged them to have trades to fall back on, homeschooled or privately schooled. What did we get? Daughter who graduated from Ricks at 18, one son an MBA, another valedictorian of a well-known law school, a son commissioning in the Air Force as a pilot--one son still working in the building trades.
Extremist? Maybe, but successful, too.
re - OBSERVER 2:50pm | 4:13 p.m. July 31, 2008
did you really just use "civil rights" and FLDS" in the same
sentence? Now that's good humor.
I think you are wasting your breath. They don't actually know the meaning of civil rights, you understand that, right?
And the court system was and is used to promote civil rights (once the bigots were removed), which is what the Black Panthers were trying to promote. They were just going about it violently rather than civilly (as the great Mr. King did). Civil rights, a long hard battle which continues, are ignored within the FLDS.
As far as the Indians are concerned, nothing can fix what we did. Our shame will last for many more generations, as it should. They were free, and we enslaved them and took both their pride and their property. It was wrong then and it is wrong now.
If the FLDS were free, I'd be the first to say leave them alone. But "civil rights" is not even in their vocabulary.
I think you are wasting your breath. They don't actually know the meaning of civil rights, you understand that, right?
And the court system was and is used to promote civil rights (once the bigots were removed), which is what the Black Panthers were trying to promote. They were just going about it violently rather than civilly (as the great Mr. King did). Civil rights, a long hard battle which continues, are ignored within the FLDS.
As far as the Indians are concerned, nothing can fix what we did. Our shame will last for many more generations, as it should. They were free, and we enslaved them and took both their pride and their property. It was wrong then and it is wrong now.
If the FLDS were free, I'd be the first to say leave them alone. But "civil rights" is not even in their vocabulary.
MysteryRenee | 4:21 p.m. July 31, 2008
Innocent people yes, but they should still lose their homes. They are the ones
that gave it to Jeffs in the first place. They trusted him and they need to
suffer the consequences for that trust. It's too bad when it was a
generation before that was the one to trust Jeffs, and it's the current
generation that has to suffer for it. It's not any different if my dad had
donation all his worth to the church instead of me -- his assets would be owned
by the church.
to "To mother 3:42pm" | 4:26 p.m. July 31, 2008
when an FLDS parent can say the same things you just said, then we can all rest
easier that their children have the same opportunities as every one else.
Extremist? Not even close.
to "to mother" 3:42pm | 5:46 p.m. July 31, 2008
those other mothers don't do it because of their "religion".
They do it because they are criminals, as are the FLDS. Religion is no excuse.
me | 6:32 p.m. July 31, 2008
I say, all you who think you know what you are talking about just be quiet,
sit back and pray for your own deliverence, because not many of you have a clue
what you are talking about. The UEP never did have any money, and never will.
All these people who think they are going to get something out of it will be
disappointed, SORRY SUCCORS.
gadget73156 | 1:06 a.m. Aug. 1, 2008
I read her book. As a TRUE survivor of RAPE and years old molestation, I can
assure you that none of my perpetrator's waited a month or romanced me like
she says Allen did, before my assaults. She contradicts herself when she defends
and sympathizes with Lamont's worries and fears about gaining his
'priesthood' and condemns Allen for having the same worries. Allen
was just as innocent if not more than she was. She was defiant and a rebel. No
I am NOT FLDS. I live in N.C. and am a Baptist. Nor do I condone polygamy or
child abuse in any way. Many teens are having consensual sex even if it's
NOT legal. Seems to me she is using all of this as a smokescreen to justify her
pregnancy by Lamont out of wedlock. Even she talks about their dire finacial
status and BOOM, accusations, a book and a HUGE lawsuit. You do the math.
gadget73156 | 1:21 a.m. Aug. 1, 2008
There is no way Allen can get a fair trial or impartial jury AFTER Jeffs
conviction as an accessory to his alleged crime. If Allen is NOT convicted then
Jeffs' conviction must be overturned since there will have been NO rape for
him to have been an accessory to. Where is the justice for Allen who was also
born into this belief and programmed to perform like a puppet by Jeffs. If he
did not comply then he would join the ranks of the "Lost Boys" as well
or go to hell. Besides, Allen, like her husband Lamont, believed their
marriage(s) were their key to heaven. It is ALL Allen knew. At age 19,
isolated and brainwashed, what choices or options did he have that he could
possibly have known about? She sure understood Lamonts' dilemma
(priesthood) and why he felt the way he did...where is her sympathy for Allen
who was in the same boat as Lamont? I have a 19 year old son now. I can assure
you that he is still quite naive and pure even in a secular world. I pray for
Allen's exoneration. He has suffered enough cruelty by Ms. Wall and Jeffs.
gadget73156 | 2:14 a.m. Aug. 1, 2008
She claims to have man miscarriages but is there proof? I can say I had X
number of miscarriages but it doesn't make it true. I could also accuse
'John Doe' of raping or hitting me, have him ARRESTED even though the
poor guy was asleep in his own bed 50 miles away when the ALLEGED incident
occurred. Just because you write a book and make a buck doesn't make it
CONTENTS the GOSPEL TRUTH. People write FANTASY books everyday. Seems to me
everyone has tried and convicted Allen BEFORE he has a chance to defend himself.
Maybe ALLEN should write a book of his OWN version.
As far as Allen being her 1st cousin, one would be hard pressed to find more than a handful of people in the FLDS who don't share a scintilla of the same DNA after hundreds of years of polygamous living. Certainly Warren Jeffs is a kook and a self-serving man. He should have to pay ALL of the people of the FLDS for all the grief he caused by spending their hard earned money on himself and seperating families like someone had died and left him GOD!
As far as Allen being her 1st cousin, one would be hard pressed to find more than a handful of people in the FLDS who don't share a scintilla of the same DNA after hundreds of years of polygamous living. Certainly Warren Jeffs is a kook and a self-serving man. He should have to pay ALL of the people of the FLDS for all the grief he caused by spending their hard earned money on himself and seperating families like someone had died and left him GOD!
goldilocks | 8:50 a.m. Aug. 1, 2008
I am totally amazed that so many citizens of the United States can form an
opinion and feel so sure and righteous about these issues when they are not in
possession of the facts. Just incredible!
run for the hills | 3:44 p.m. Aug. 1, 2008
and I'm totally amazed that so many citizens of the FLDS stick around there
and don't run for the hills and get away from all these crazy practices.
Just incredible!
Just incredible!
one of the three bears | 4:00 p.m. Aug. 1, 2008
lets gather up all the preachers in every denomination and the police and the
judges put them in jail. they all have the power to perform marriages.
son of perdition | 1:29 a.m. Aug. 4, 2008
yes! finally! remove the flds from religious tax exempt status! i live in Kanab
and i know several women that have escaped! i know one woman that goes back
there all the time, and she reports "people are just gone, nobody knows
where they are"...time mark shurtlef does his job and brings in the feds
with the RICO!
the walls must come down
the walls must come down
remember | 6:54 a.m. Aug. 4, 2008
Don't forget that the trust also holds the money of those that are long
unmarried, monogamist, and innocent of any and all crimes. Money from them
would also be taken away from them. You really think that is fair? You must
also remember that underage sex is not commonplace and not an accepted practice
among the FLDS, but was proven otherwise by CPS themselves. If you want
pervasive, you must go OUTSIDE the compound with one 14 year old getting
pregnant in Texas every 10 hours. Hate the FLDS for rejecting what you hold
valuable, but don't deprive all FLDS money for the criminal actions of a
few. Imagine having your home taken away from you, because your bishop
molested a child while you knew nothing about such. Doesn't matter, you
lose your house.
to run for the hills | 7:45 a.m. Aug. 4, 2008
They couldn't easily run since their funds are tied up in the UEP and can
be taken away by the courts leaving them with nothing.
AlissaFan | 2:08 p.m. Aug. 4, 2008
If you want to know what life was like for poor Alissa Wall, just read her book.
She has overcome a truly traumatizing childhood. She was raised in a world where
everyone is basically brainwashed into doing what they are told, no matter what
the cost. She was brave enough to finally follow her heart and get out. Now she
wants to help others like herself. I truly admire this young woman. I wish her
nothing but the best and brightest future.
can't NOT be abuse | 2:56 p.m. Aug. 4, 2008
I don't understand those that think these women are lying and that there is
no abuse.
It's impossible for there NOT to be abuse. Impossible. I mean, think about it.
A guy has 3 wives and 25 kids. Any public discontent or rebellion reflects DIRECTLY on the husband/father and if it were to continue his punishment would be banishment and loss of family. He's not going to stick up for his family - he's going to do whatever is necessary to "get them in line". You can't get 30 people to strictly adhere to a repressive lifestyle without some abuse. It's impossible.
So even if these women are lying through their teeth, that doesn't mean there's no abuse. EVERY HOUSEHOLD of more than one wife or half a dozen children will INHERENTLY have abuse. It's impossible not to when you're enforcing a repressive lifestyle.
It's either that or be banished, and since the men aren't going to butt heads with the leadership, their family will bear the brunt.
So you can certainly say these women authors are lying. But don't offend our common sense by saying that there's no abuse. That's just not possible. It's self-evident.
It's impossible for there NOT to be abuse. Impossible. I mean, think about it.
A guy has 3 wives and 25 kids. Any public discontent or rebellion reflects DIRECTLY on the husband/father and if it were to continue his punishment would be banishment and loss of family. He's not going to stick up for his family - he's going to do whatever is necessary to "get them in line". You can't get 30 people to strictly adhere to a repressive lifestyle without some abuse. It's impossible.
So even if these women are lying through their teeth, that doesn't mean there's no abuse. EVERY HOUSEHOLD of more than one wife or half a dozen children will INHERENTLY have abuse. It's impossible not to when you're enforcing a repressive lifestyle.
It's either that or be banished, and since the men aren't going to butt heads with the leadership, their family will bear the brunt.
So you can certainly say these women authors are lying. But don't offend our common sense by saying that there's no abuse. That's just not possible. It's self-evident.
re - remember 6:54 am | 3:25 p.m. Aug. 4, 2008
don't forget that those "innocents" GAVE their money and property
to the church, freely and on purpose. It's not even theirs anymore!
And stop comparing the FLDS to common Texans or some bishop.
The Texans don't want their child to be pregnant, the FLDS parent does.
And some bishop molests some child, how would you lose your home? I don't know anyone that lost their home over the fiasco with Catholic priests.
How would that cause you to lose your house? Even the FLDS aren't losing their homes because of child abuse. They are losing their homes because they gave them away, so the home isn't even theirs anymore...
Amazing how that works, huh...
And stop comparing the FLDS to common Texans or some bishop.
The Texans don't want their child to be pregnant, the FLDS parent does.
And some bishop molests some child, how would you lose your home? I don't know anyone that lost their home over the fiasco with Catholic priests.
How would that cause you to lose your house? Even the FLDS aren't losing their homes because of child abuse. They are losing their homes because they gave them away, so the home isn't even theirs anymore...
Amazing how that works, huh...
Where is the Compassion? | 7:16 a.m. Nov. 4, 2008
Wow. It never ceases to amaze me how many people on this planet are cold,
judgmental, and insane - clearly evidenced in many of these opinions!
Virtually the entire sect is incapable of thinking for themselves, as victims of their reality - so don't say they chose their lot. The UEP & properties came from their sweat & earnings and should be divided up amongst them, with the dissolution of the so-called religion, which is a fascist dictatorship and thus should not be tolerated. The children should be monitored and made to go to non-FLDS schools. Prevent future abuse & brainwashing now.
Personally, I don't see a problem with polygamy if the parties involved all have free will (not perceived free will). Marrying and/or raping children is wrong in every conceivable way; Jeffs deserves more than 10 years for playing God - sending boys out to fend for themselves, treating women like cattle, rearranging families like they were trading cards, handing over little girls in slavery to men like they were merit bonuses...
Think twice before condemning Elissa, folks, lest you find yourself in similar circumstances one day!
Virtually the entire sect is incapable of thinking for themselves, as victims of their reality - so don't say they chose their lot. The UEP & properties came from their sweat & earnings and should be divided up amongst them, with the dissolution of the so-called religion, which is a fascist dictatorship and thus should not be tolerated. The children should be monitored and made to go to non-FLDS schools. Prevent future abuse & brainwashing now.
Personally, I don't see a problem with polygamy if the parties involved all have free will (not perceived free will). Marrying and/or raping children is wrong in every conceivable way; Jeffs deserves more than 10 years for playing God - sending boys out to fend for themselves, treating women like cattle, rearranging families like they were trading cards, handing over little girls in slavery to men like they were merit bonuses...
Think twice before condemning Elissa, folks, lest you find yourself in similar circumstances one day!
NEBRASKA SONS OF PERDITION | 6:07 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Raw Video: NEBRASKA LAWMAKERS TAKE UP SAFE HEAVEN LAWS FOR [FLDS AND NON-FLDS SONS OF PERDITION]
(FOR FLDS AND NON-FLDS PARENTS WITH UNRULY TEENAGER CASES?)
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