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Reid compares polygamy to 'organized crime'
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SML-PDX | 10:43 a.m. July 25, 2008
When is Reid going to go after homosexuals? If it's alright to have two
consenting adults of the same gender hook up, then why not 3 or more consenting
adults of whatever gender?
Nellie | 10:46 a.m. July 25, 2008
An overlooked point to many of the respondents: As the article and Mr. Reid
states, these congressional actions are based on many varying violations -
welfare fraud, interstate commerce violations, etc.... Don't all of you
who are appologists for the FLDS think that these 'organized crimes'
need to be addressed? The FLDS groups from Hillsdale for example, have been
running business that net huge amounts of $$$$ while maintaining all property
rights of the group's citizens and encouraging individuals to live off
welfare.
Comments continue below
FLDS vs. LDS | 10:54 a.m. July 25, 2008
This welfare fraud is no different than the kind of things Joseph Smith and
Brigham Young had the Church members do in their day. They did the whole
polygamy thing, and they started their own cities and city governments, getting
federal support money and colonization funding for going out West. They started
their own militias so the Mormon economy could get money from the Government.
They Started the Mormon Batallion for no other reason than for the paychecks its
members would get. They had members "called" to colonize areas of
Southern Utah, Nevada, Arizona, and California so they could expand their
"Great Basin Kingdom" and its economic footprint. They had members
"called" to take jobs with the Railroad so they could get the money
stimulus into their economy. Read "Great Basin Kingdom" by the former
LDS Historian, Leonard J. Arrington and you will see how similar the FLDS
approach to financing their "Yearning for Zion Ranch" is to the LDS
Zion movement. Joseph even started a Bank that ended up failing because it
failed to follow contemporary banking regulation and sound principles. Many
members lost a great deal of money to Joseph's bad ("corrupt?")
management and leadership!
MOJO | 10:58 a.m. July 25, 2008
"I am here to tell you that polygamist communities in the United States are
a form of organized crime," he said......Reid said other crimes they commit
include "welfare fraud, tax evasion, massive corruption and strong-arm
tactics to maintain what they think are the status quo. These crimes are
systematic, sophisticated and are frequently carried out across state
lines."
Is he talking about the FLDS or what happens in Las Vegas. If he's so worried about orginized crime, why doesn't he clean up Vegas?
Is he talking about the FLDS or what happens in Las Vegas. If he's so worried about orginized crime, why doesn't he clean up Vegas?
Call your Committee Sen. | 11:06 a.m. July 25, 2008
Reid compares polygamy to organized crime and HE'S RIGHT. Did he also
discover how Brigham Young and his family lived in the 1800s, during a free
30-minute tour of the Beehive House, and learn all about the Mountain Meadows
massacre, is this why he urged stepped-up law enforcement against criminal
syndicates he says lead polygamous groups?.
If you people in Utah don't like it - you know who to call.....
Washington DC Office
104 Hart Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Tel: (202) 224-5251
Fax: (202) 224-6331
Salt Lake City Office
8402 Federal Building
125 South State Street
Salt Lake City, UT 84138
Tel: (801) 524-4380
Fax: (801) 524-4379
Provo Office
51 S. University Ave.
Suite 320
Provo, UT 84606
Tel: (801) 375-7881
Fax: (801) 374-5005
If you people in Utah don't like it - you know who to call.....
Washington DC Office
104 Hart Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Tel: (202) 224-5251
Fax: (202) 224-6331
Salt Lake City Office
8402 Federal Building
125 South State Street
Salt Lake City, UT 84138
Tel: (801) 524-4380
Fax: (801) 524-4379
Provo Office
51 S. University Ave.
Suite 320
Provo, UT 84606
Tel: (801) 375-7881
Fax: (801) 374-5005
whoops | 11:19 a.m. July 25, 2008
Religious persecution by any other means is still religious persecution, and now
a Mormon is leading the charge.
I just.... | 11:18 a.m. July 25, 2008
hope that this is not going to lead to more hatred and persecution towards the
FLDS. I may not agree with their beliefs and the way they run the lives of
their followers but they are still Citizens of the United States of America.
They need guidance and help from us, to convince them in a civilized and humane way to do away with illegal activities and beliefs that are considered extreme but to label them, Organized Crime is uncalled for.
They need guidance and help from us, to convince them in a civilized and humane way to do away with illegal activities and beliefs that are considered extreme but to label them, Organized Crime is uncalled for.
Response to RE:Cats | 11:26 a.m. July 25, 2008
There are lots of scriptural laws no longer part of the LDS religion, or other
religions for that matter. Example: although the law of sacrificing animals was
once practiced in historical scripture, it�s been fulfilled
and no longer practiced--the same goes for polygyny; although part of the
history of many Biblical religions -- polygyny�s need has
been fulfilled and is no longer practiced.
The LDSchurch believes God is our loving HeavenlyFather. He provides us with modern prophets and modern revelation. We believe God governs the affairs of men through his priesthood authority on earth. Only one church has authority to act in God�s name; the LDS believe the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is that church. No other church can claim association or shirttail relations with our church. Even though fundamentalists changed their name to FLDS in 1991--it still doesn't make them part of the LDSchurch. Our prophet is the only one who can legitimize their claim, and he says there�s no connection.
I'm glad leaders of our country, like Sen.Reid protect, not only its people, but the rule of law. Our country is based on rule of law, and if it fails we have anarchy.
The LDSchurch believes God is our loving HeavenlyFather. He provides us with modern prophets and modern revelation. We believe God governs the affairs of men through his priesthood authority on earth. Only one church has authority to act in God�s name; the LDS believe the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is that church. No other church can claim association or shirttail relations with our church. Even though fundamentalists changed their name to FLDS in 1991--it still doesn't make them part of the LDSchurch. Our prophet is the only one who can legitimize their claim, and he says there�s no connection.
I'm glad leaders of our country, like Sen.Reid protect, not only its people, but the rule of law. Our country is based on rule of law, and if it fails we have anarchy.
Unfortunately "Funny" | 11:41 a.m. July 25, 2008
The form of polygamy that is lived now is very close to what Joseph Smith
taught! Some like to think otherwise to make themselves feel better about their
religion now. Excuses are made, but that's all they are.
Curious | 11:55 a.m. July 25, 2008
I live in Spain and have been following the discussions about FLDS and there is
something that I have been wondering about which doesn't seem to be
mentioned about the children. What education do they receive, especially the
girls? Is their schooling controlled by the government? Do they have to take the
official exams all other students have to take? Because if the girls had a good
education then probably the polygamy rate would drop quickly in my opinion,
though I may be wrong. Can someone answer me please.
Francis E. Lawlor | 11:59 a.m. July 25, 2008
The Book of Mormon has in it these significant words: " hearken to the word
of the Lord:For there shall not any man have save it be one wife; and concubines
he shall have none; For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto
me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these
things." Jacob 2:27-30 Then 31 For behold,I, the Lord have seen the sorrow,
and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem,
yea, and in all the lands of my people because of the wickedness and
abomminations of their husbands.
32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the daughters of this people - - shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts." Need more be said ?
32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the daughters of this people - - shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts." Need more be said ?
ummm | 12:04 p.m. July 25, 2008
Abraham was a polygamist - all Christians, Muslims, and Jews have polygamy in
their religous genes too.
It didn't work well for Abe | 12:17 p.m. July 25, 2008
Maybe polygamy was practiced by Abraham and Muslims today. In the case of
Abraham it did not work out well, sending out that poor woman into the desert
with her child! Shameful!
The Angel | 12:29 p.m. July 25, 2008
helped the Poor Woman and her son Ishmael and they were not perish. Interesting
that God intervened to help her and her son, and Abraham and Sara weren't
chastised at all.
I cast my vote not my stone | 12:46 p.m. July 25, 2008
and this has been outlawed since 1890...get it over with , go after the ones
down in draper which seem to hide right under our noses while other mothers and
fathers are setting out their time for doing felonies of different crimes.
Jen | 1:05 p.m. July 25, 2008
Just stop it! Lets all play nice!
Anonymous | 1:13 p.m. July 25, 2008
To Curious in Spain: The school is controlled by the cult, they receive a very
substandard education, mostly their religion doctrine and a lot of false
history. They don't take any state standardized tests like other public
school kids do. There are laws mandating the education of children in this
country, but for some reason I don't understand, the FLDS seem to be exempt
from it. It's very sad. I agree with, a decent education would probably
help bring a lot of these girls out of the cult, though it's very hard for
them to do so, and when they do they lose their families.
yeah | 1:17 p.m. July 25, 2008
that's what started this mess..playing nice!
to curious | 1:28 p.m. July 25, 2008
The FLDS educate themselves. As you can see from some of their past postings,
their intellect and grammar are somewhat limited. Quite sad, really.
Michael | 1:31 p.m. July 25, 2008
This is good. The FLDS have an opportunity to place themselves among there
rightful place in the LDS organization and mormonism. I think this is good to
place light on the subject and unite mormonism and the LDS back to the proud
history which it has stayed from.
Think!!!! | 1:53 p.m. July 25, 2008
There were no laws made against polygamy until Joseph Smith reveiled it as a
principle of the Church. With that in mind, ALL laws against polygamy do not
support the Constitution of the United States of America. It states that
Congress can make NO LAWS that go against a certain religion. That says there
have been corrupt politicians in the government for a long time and it is just
getting worse. If these peoples rights are violated, so will many, and I mean
MANY other's right will be too.
And YES, HARRY REID IS UNIFORMED!! AND LOVES TO HAVE IT SO!! OR HE WOULD HAVE SIMPLY TURNED AROUND AT THE HEARING AND ASKED WILLIE ABOUT A FEW THINGS INSTEAD OF ASKING FOR MULTI-MILLIONS TO GO SLEWTH OUT AN ANTI-FLDS FICTION STORY. (CAROLYN'S 30% TRUE AUTOBIOGRAPHY--THAT MEANS THE NAMES WERE REAL, THAT'S ABOUT ALL TO MAKE IT 30%. THE REST WAS FICTION.)
And YES, HARRY REID IS UNIFORMED!! AND LOVES TO HAVE IT SO!! OR HE WOULD HAVE SIMPLY TURNED AROUND AT THE HEARING AND ASKED WILLIE ABOUT A FEW THINGS INSTEAD OF ASKING FOR MULTI-MILLIONS TO GO SLEWTH OUT AN ANTI-FLDS FICTION STORY. (CAROLYN'S 30% TRUE AUTOBIOGRAPHY--THAT MEANS THE NAMES WERE REAL, THAT'S ABOUT ALL TO MAKE IT 30%. THE REST WAS FICTION.)
LRC | 1:59 p.m. July 25, 2008
RE: SML-PDX | 10:43 a.m. July 25, 2008
"When is Reid going to go after homosexuals? If it's alright to have two consenting adults of the same gender hook up, then why not 3 or more consenting adults of whatever gender?"
Consenting adults in one thing, and something the law of the land not only recognizes for what it is but has ruled accordingly...
CHILDREN ARE THE ISSUE HERE! No consenting adults and their sexual preferences and/or behavior.
Get your ostrich head out of your moralistically skewed sand pile and see issues for what they are... In this case it's about children and the underaged who are being hurt and abused, not adults who have an inaleiable right to choose what they do or don't do in their own private bedrooms or with who...
This is about the children! That's what Harry Reid is speaking up about.
Sheesh! It's not about Repubs vs Dems, Conservative vs Liberal, etc, etc., it's about the children, AND THAT CROSSES ALL THE PHILOSOPHICAL. RELIGIOUS AND POLITICAL BOUNDRIES!
"When is Reid going to go after homosexuals? If it's alright to have two consenting adults of the same gender hook up, then why not 3 or more consenting adults of whatever gender?"
Consenting adults in one thing, and something the law of the land not only recognizes for what it is but has ruled accordingly...
CHILDREN ARE THE ISSUE HERE! No consenting adults and their sexual preferences and/or behavior.
Get your ostrich head out of your moralistically skewed sand pile and see issues for what they are... In this case it's about children and the underaged who are being hurt and abused, not adults who have an inaleiable right to choose what they do or don't do in their own private bedrooms or with who...
This is about the children! That's what Harry Reid is speaking up about.
Sheesh! It's not about Repubs vs Dems, Conservative vs Liberal, etc, etc., it's about the children, AND THAT CROSSES ALL THE PHILOSOPHICAL. RELIGIOUS AND POLITICAL BOUNDRIES!
To LRC | 2:31 p.m. July 25, 2008
Let me suggest the first paragraph of your post as Topic for discussion for a
rainy day.......LOL!!
To Curious | 2:36 p.m. July 25, 2008
I'ts hard to really know the truth about someone if you ask people that are
against them. I am an FLDS girl. I am 23 and not married. I have gone all the
way through high school and now I'm taking college classes.
Anyone that wants to can go to college, no one is stopping them. I know it's hard to beleive because of everything you've heard, but it is true.
Anyone that wants to can go to college, no one is stopping them. I know it's hard to beleive because of everything you've heard, but it is true.
Grinandbearit | 2:41 p.m. July 25, 2008
Harry is only letting people know that the list of crimes he refers to are
reserved to members of congress.
wrz | 2:57 p.m. July 25, 2008
claire @ 9:02 a.m.: "There are a slightly higher number of baby boys born
into this world than girls. Thus making a polygamist lifestyle impossible to
continue unless:
1.they recruit women from the outside..
2.marry younger and younger girls robbing from the next generation...
3.dropping their unwanted boys off into the wilderness to fend for themselves..."
You forgot (or ignored)...
4. Millions more men are killed in wars across the world than women, leaving a world with excess women not able to marry. Wars and rumors of wars have always been with us and always will. And men, not women, fight and die in wars.
1.they recruit women from the outside..
2.marry younger and younger girls robbing from the next generation...
3.dropping their unwanted boys off into the wilderness to fend for themselves..."
You forgot (or ignored)...
4. Millions more men are killed in wars across the world than women, leaving a world with excess women not able to marry. Wars and rumors of wars have always been with us and always will. And men, not women, fight and die in wars.
wrz | 3:10 p.m. July 25, 2008
Hmmm | 10:13 a.m." "The Federal Government's interest in this
area can be summed up as such:
2. These same organizations are committing fraud by having the same girls claim welfare benefits as "single" mothers."
Happens regularly in ghetto areas of larger US cities. And addressed with compassion by government entities.
2. These same organizations are committing fraud by having the same girls claim welfare benefits as "single" mothers."
Happens regularly in ghetto areas of larger US cities. And addressed with compassion by government entities.
Cleve | 3:13 p.m. July 25, 2008
Curious in Spain,
The FLDS youth's education is controlled in large part by their church leaders rather than the government. Warren Jeffs, their fallen leader, was personally involved in the direction of the childrens schooling. Prior to taking over as prophet, he was the principal for their Salt Lake area school which was called the Alta Acadamy.
They have gotten around much of the government education rules by claiming a home schooling exemption. This allows them to teach the kids at home rather than sending them to public schools.
Even in the areas where they are sent to school, like Hildale/Colorado City, the schools are under the control of their church. As a result, much of their teachings are not what you would typically expect, but rather are religous study classes as directed by their leaders.
I am a firm advocate of allowing for legal home schooling, as I have seen in my own life where school districts have abandoned the needs of individual students. There must be a careful balance between the needs of individuals and enforcing schooling curriculem for "the greater good."
How we can balance both needs is not always readily apparrent or easy to accomplish.
The FLDS youth's education is controlled in large part by their church leaders rather than the government. Warren Jeffs, their fallen leader, was personally involved in the direction of the childrens schooling. Prior to taking over as prophet, he was the principal for their Salt Lake area school which was called the Alta Acadamy.
They have gotten around much of the government education rules by claiming a home schooling exemption. This allows them to teach the kids at home rather than sending them to public schools.
Even in the areas where they are sent to school, like Hildale/Colorado City, the schools are under the control of their church. As a result, much of their teachings are not what you would typically expect, but rather are religous study classes as directed by their leaders.
I am a firm advocate of allowing for legal home schooling, as I have seen in my own life where school districts have abandoned the needs of individual students. There must be a careful balance between the needs of individuals and enforcing schooling curriculem for "the greater good."
How we can balance both needs is not always readily apparrent or easy to accomplish.
rick | 3:21 p.m. July 25, 2008
what a joker, RIGHTEOUS REID, he ought to do his own state a service and go
after debautchery and sexual immorality that lines the streets of Nevada's
gaudy lit cities. organized crime? where has this saint been, What state did you
say that he represents? Sounds like he is blind in one eye and can't see
out of the other one. little pats on the back for a real coward
Dr. J. | 4:16 p.m. July 25, 2008
Reid is right on with his targets, but it's not new news. FLDS has been
corrupt for decades and I hope they get their due.
But with his new focus on misappropriation, I also expect Reid to call for investigations on disability payments under the ADA and use of funds by Communication Services for the Deaf (CSD) where literally hords of money are overpaid to individuals and agencies in those cultures.
But with his new focus on misappropriation, I also expect Reid to call for investigations on disability payments under the ADA and use of funds by Communication Services for the Deaf (CSD) where literally hords of money are overpaid to individuals and agencies in those cultures.
From the Creek | 5:34 p.m. July 25, 2008
"The FLDS educate themselves. As you can see from some of their past
postings, their intellect and grammar are somewhat limited. Quite sad,
really."
================================
Which posts in particular are you referring to? I've seen several people (yes, I'm talking to you, Cats) claim that the posts defending the FLDS, even in the slightest, are from FLDS members. How do you know that? Wouldn't it be just as ridiculous for me to assume that a group of anti-FLDS crusaders are the only ones posting the comments against us?
Just as in any other community, there are those with varying degrees of intellect and knowledge. Some are more gifted in some areas than others. You can't paint all of us with the same broad brush because of the actions of a few.
I will admit that I'm ashamed when a member of my faith engages in actions which I feel aren't exactly honorable, even if it may be considered "legal." The sad thing is, when someone does things that may be a bit shady, people get all worked up in this hysteria that we must all be doing it and the rumors just grow from there.
================================
Which posts in particular are you referring to? I've seen several people (yes, I'm talking to you, Cats) claim that the posts defending the FLDS, even in the slightest, are from FLDS members. How do you know that? Wouldn't it be just as ridiculous for me to assume that a group of anti-FLDS crusaders are the only ones posting the comments against us?
Just as in any other community, there are those with varying degrees of intellect and knowledge. Some are more gifted in some areas than others. You can't paint all of us with the same broad brush because of the actions of a few.
I will admit that I'm ashamed when a member of my faith engages in actions which I feel aren't exactly honorable, even if it may be considered "legal." The sad thing is, when someone does things that may be a bit shady, people get all worked up in this hysteria that we must all be doing it and the rumors just grow from there.
zxcvbnm | 5:46 p.m. July 25, 2008
Hey Cleve......The CPS tested the children and the vast majority were at or above grade level. CPS did the testing though.....the same agency that can't discern the number 37 and the number 14.
Cats | 6:10 p.m. July 25, 2008
To FLDS VS LDS: Are you nuts? The LDS Church never got any money from the U.S.
government. The only reason they joined the army was because they were
recruited and they desperately needed the money because they had lost everything
they had when they were forced out of Nauvoo. For you to equate anything Joseph
Smith or Brigham Young did with the sick leadership of the FLDS is really out in
Space.
There has never been any form of acceptance of welfare or welfare fraud on the part of the LDS Church or it's leadership.
There has never been any form of acceptance of welfare or welfare fraud on the part of the LDS Church or it's leadership.
From the Creek | 6:25 p.m. July 25, 2008
"There has never been any form of acceptance of welfare or welfare fraud on
the part of the LDS Church or it's leadership."
=========
WOW! Are you saying that there is not a single case of an LDS family being on welfare? Can you honestly say that there's not a single instance of welfare fraud among the LDS?
=========
WOW! Are you saying that there is not a single case of an LDS family being on welfare? Can you honestly say that there's not a single instance of welfare fraud among the LDS?
Cats | 6:54 p.m. July 25, 2008
To From the Creek: You are completely misstating what I said and you know it.
The LDS Church has a strict policy of not accepting any government money. The Church also urges it's members never to accept public assistance. Members of the Church are urged to go to their families in time of need. Failing that, members are to go to the Church for help. We are urged never to accept public assistance. We are not even supposed to accept help from FEMA in time of a natural disaster.
Unfortunately, not all members comply with this council, but the vast, vast majority do. That is the official policy of the LDS Church. In addition, any members of the LDS Church who were found to be participating in any form of Welfare Fraud would be disciplined by a Church Court as we are taught to obey and sustain the law. IF YOU WERE LDS YOU WOULD KNOW ALL OF THIS.
Unlike the FLDS Church, the LDS Church does not have an offical policy of perpetrating fraud on the taxpayers. Don't try to claim that anything Joseph or Brigham did is anything like the criminal behavior of the FLDS leadership.
The LDS Church has a strict policy of not accepting any government money. The Church also urges it's members never to accept public assistance. Members of the Church are urged to go to their families in time of need. Failing that, members are to go to the Church for help. We are urged never to accept public assistance. We are not even supposed to accept help from FEMA in time of a natural disaster.
Unfortunately, not all members comply with this council, but the vast, vast majority do. That is the official policy of the LDS Church. In addition, any members of the LDS Church who were found to be participating in any form of Welfare Fraud would be disciplined by a Church Court as we are taught to obey and sustain the law. IF YOU WERE LDS YOU WOULD KNOW ALL OF THIS.
Unlike the FLDS Church, the LDS Church does not have an offical policy of perpetrating fraud on the taxpayers. Don't try to claim that anything Joseph or Brigham did is anything like the criminal behavior of the FLDS leadership.
From the Creek | 7:12 p.m. July 25, 2008
I apologize, Cats, but it really looked like that's what you were
inferring. You know what? I personally like the policy of avoiding government
aid unless it's a very very significant need.
Our church has never had any official or unofficial policy to try to bilk the welfare system or any other system. I believe there have been people who have unfairly taken advantage of government assistance, but please be aware that I'm not one of them. Notice that not one of the families in Texas was on welfare. They were living as they'd been taught, to be self-sustaining. I wouldn't care if the welfare system died tomorrow.
I try my hardest to make sure I'm following every law. I'm careful to pay taxes on time, to file the proper forms, and most especially, to live an honorable life.
Our church has never had any official or unofficial policy to try to bilk the welfare system or any other system. I believe there have been people who have unfairly taken advantage of government assistance, but please be aware that I'm not one of them. Notice that not one of the families in Texas was on welfare. They were living as they'd been taught, to be self-sustaining. I wouldn't care if the welfare system died tomorrow.
I try my hardest to make sure I'm following every law. I'm careful to pay taxes on time, to file the proper forms, and most especially, to live an honorable life.
I know | 7:45 p.m. July 25, 2008
Rush and Sean said "Obama" is responsible for this mess!
I believe EVERYTHING that Rush and Sean say.
Rush is worth EVERY bit of that 400 million corporate America is paying him. I know corporate America will just raise prices to consumers to cover this well-earned amount of money given to Rush. However, I love paying more for products so Rush can have his 400 million. I hope Sean will get his 400 million so we can pay more for products he sells on his show!
I hope Hary Reid gets everyone of these hand wringing, bed-wetting, marxist, socialists, Stalinists, liberal, polyigamists in big, big trouble!
I believe EVERYTHING that Rush and Sean say.
Rush is worth EVERY bit of that 400 million corporate America is paying him. I know corporate America will just raise prices to consumers to cover this well-earned amount of money given to Rush. However, I love paying more for products so Rush can have his 400 million. I hope Sean will get his 400 million so we can pay more for products he sells on his show!
I hope Hary Reid gets everyone of these hand wringing, bed-wetting, marxist, socialists, Stalinists, liberal, polyigamists in big, big trouble!
Think!!!! | 8:51 p.m. July 25, 2008
Curious:
Yes, the girls get a very clean, moral education! Not like the one they would get in a public school. (Public school teaches sex education in second grade!! and children do not even have to tell their parents that they are on birth control, IT'S THE LAW!? The school nurse supplies it and is under NO OBLIGATION!! to tell their parents here in America!!) The FLDS didn't even KNOW the language,LET ALONE THE CONDUCT THAT THE CPS KEPT QUESTIONING THEM ON!! BECAUSE THEY HAD NEVER, I MEAN, NEVER HAD TO WORRY ABOUT A BOY TRYING TO TAKE THEIR VIRTUE UNTIL THEY CHOSE, AND I MEAN, THEY CHOSE TO!! (EVEN IF THEY CHOSE TO MARRY YOUNG, THEY WERE NOT FORCED INTO THAT KIND OF A SITUATION!! THERE IS A GOD IN HEAVEN AND THE ANTI-FLDS WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE PAIN AND SUFFERING OF THE INNOCENT!!! (The children that I know of take the standardized acheivement tests (which by the way ALL past with an eighty-seven or above grade!!:)
I am grateful to know the sweet, kind-hearted people in the FLDS that truly live the gospel. Say what you will, TRUTH WILL PREVAIL!-EVEN-IF-IT-TAKES-A-LIFE-TIME!! OUR-FATHER-IN-HEAVEN-SEES-ALL!-AND-HE-IS-OUR-DELIVERER!!!
Yes, the girls get a very clean, moral education! Not like the one they would get in a public school. (Public school teaches sex education in second grade!! and children do not even have to tell their parents that they are on birth control, IT'S THE LAW!? The school nurse supplies it and is under NO OBLIGATION!! to tell their parents here in America!!) The FLDS didn't even KNOW the language,LET ALONE THE CONDUCT THAT THE CPS KEPT QUESTIONING THEM ON!! BECAUSE THEY HAD NEVER, I MEAN, NEVER HAD TO WORRY ABOUT A BOY TRYING TO TAKE THEIR VIRTUE UNTIL THEY CHOSE, AND I MEAN, THEY CHOSE TO!! (EVEN IF THEY CHOSE TO MARRY YOUNG, THEY WERE NOT FORCED INTO THAT KIND OF A SITUATION!! THERE IS A GOD IN HEAVEN AND THE ANTI-FLDS WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE PAIN AND SUFFERING OF THE INNOCENT!!! (The children that I know of take the standardized acheivement tests (which by the way ALL past with an eighty-seven or above grade!!:)
I am grateful to know the sweet, kind-hearted people in the FLDS that truly live the gospel. Say what you will, TRUTH WILL PREVAIL!-EVEN-IF-IT-TAKES-A-LIFE-TIME!! OUR-FATHER-IN-HEAVEN-SEES-ALL!-AND-HE-IS-OUR-DELIVERER!!!
Cats Meow | 9:51 p.m. July 25, 2008
Cats:
My mom was on welfare, and she is LDS. The bishop also knew she was on welfare, and he never told her to get off and only accept church welfare. What you say is grossly exaggerated.
The FLDS policy has always been self reliance. The official FLDS stance on welfare is to stay away from welfare. Apparently you are getting you info from someone other than the leaders of the FLDS church. If you read the actual comments of the FLDS leaders, you will see that they do not encourage milking the welfare system. I guess you don't listen to their words because you are afraid their "brainwashing" powers are to strong for your to handle.
It's interesting to note that now ALL polygamist groups are guilty of committing the crimes that the FLDS have not been found guilty of. This just gets more and more ridiculously absurd.
My mom was on welfare, and she is LDS. The bishop also knew she was on welfare, and he never told her to get off and only accept church welfare. What you say is grossly exaggerated.
The FLDS policy has always been self reliance. The official FLDS stance on welfare is to stay away from welfare. Apparently you are getting you info from someone other than the leaders of the FLDS church. If you read the actual comments of the FLDS leaders, you will see that they do not encourage milking the welfare system. I guess you don't listen to their words because you are afraid their "brainwashing" powers are to strong for your to handle.
It's interesting to note that now ALL polygamist groups are guilty of committing the crimes that the FLDS have not been found guilty of. This just gets more and more ridiculously absurd.
from GA | 9:54 p.m. July 25, 2008
Reid's actions seem politically motivated to me. Why bring the Feds against
the FLDS now instead of a year ago? Because it's politically expedient to
do so? The law-breakers among the FLDS should be brought to justice, but to
target them in this way seems heavy handed.
John Lambert | 9:56 p.m. July 25, 2008
What is worth the FLDS church where men commit to women or brothels?
I just think it is interesting that a senator from the one state that has legalized prostitution thinks he has any standing to attack polygamists.
I just think it is interesting that a senator from the one state that has legalized prostitution thinks he has any standing to attack polygamists.
Cats Meow | 9:59 p.m. July 25, 2008
To Curious in Spain:
The FLDS do educate their own children, just like every community in the United States does. They get local people to teach the classes. It is no different than any other communiuty in the US.
The FLDS schools also get a report card from the state of Arizona, just like any other school in that state. they have been doing just fine, and yes, no kid is left behind. :-)
The FLDS also have a branch of Arizona's Mojave community college right in there town. All of this can be found out by doing a little research on the internet, which a lot of people don't seem to care doing.
The FLDS do educate their own children, just like every community in the United States does. They get local people to teach the classes. It is no different than any other communiuty in the US.
The FLDS schools also get a report card from the state of Arizona, just like any other school in that state. they have been doing just fine, and yes, no kid is left behind. :-)
The FLDS also have a branch of Arizona's Mojave community college right in there town. All of this can be found out by doing a little research on the internet, which a lot of people don't seem to care doing.
John Pack Lambert | 10:04 p.m. July 25, 2008
To Pots and kettles,
If the people do not follow what the church leaders ask them to do, than how can you blame the church leaders for the results?
If the people do not follow what the church leaders ask them to do, than how can you blame the church leaders for the results?
John Lambert | 10:19 p.m. July 25, 2008
To Curious,
In America education is not ultimately the right of the government but the right of the parents. This principal was established in the Yoder case.
Homseschooling is legal in every state although there is an effort in California to force students to attend public schools. If you do not take government money you do not have to go through exams.
I also think your assumptions about education and polygamy are false. The number of women in polygamous marriages in the late 19th century who became medical doctors was significant. They probably represented a higher percentage of the female population being educated than in the United States overall.
I do not support polygamy, and totally back the church on excommunicating anyone who does, but to suppose that all women involved in it are backward and uneducated has no basis in fact.
In America education is not ultimately the right of the government but the right of the parents. This principal was established in the Yoder case.
Homseschooling is legal in every state although there is an effort in California to force students to attend public schools. If you do not take government money you do not have to go through exams.
I also think your assumptions about education and polygamy are false. The number of women in polygamous marriages in the late 19th century who became medical doctors was significant. They probably represented a higher percentage of the female population being educated than in the United States overall.
I do not support polygamy, and totally back the church on excommunicating anyone who does, but to suppose that all women involved in it are backward and uneducated has no basis in fact.
To Think!!!! | 11:11 p.m. July 25, 2008
You said that public schools teach sex education in the second grade.
That's taking it a bit far. They teach that it is wrong for anyone to
inappropriately touch or hurt them. This is very important information for a
child to learn. I have taught my child this and she's not even in
kindergarten yet. This is vital for children to learn so they hopefully
don't end up as abuse victims who have to deal with the emotional scars for
the rest of their lives. That's what they are teaching in the second grade
and I say bring it on. These children need to learn how to say "NO!"
AZ Border Dude | 11:12 p.m. July 25, 2008
Alex - I did 'said' it.
The comment you quoted was a statement one of the rules for the crime. You stopped reading too soon.
"The FLDS actions satisfy that rule."
Which included all the provisions of the crime as I stated them.
I know the Celestial Marriage is not recognized as a legal marriage by the state. Thus, not married.
The comment you quoted was a statement one of the rules for the crime. You stopped reading too soon.
"The FLDS actions satisfy that rule."
Which included all the provisions of the crime as I stated them.
I know the Celestial Marriage is not recognized as a legal marriage by the state. Thus, not married.
from Africa | 2:49 a.m. July 26, 2008
There are many people in Africa who practice polygamy and it is acceptable - in
South Africa in particular the possible future president is one. Check it out.
early LDS Plural-marriages | 6:02 p.m. July 26, 2008
My husband and I have 11 LDS-plural-marriages in our ancestry. My grandfather,
whom I knew well, was son of a plural-marriage performed in 1880. I have access
to vast amounts of journals,etc.from these marriages. I�m
in a position to comment on the similarity of early LDSmarriages to modern
America polygamy.
The past LDSplurality and today's polygamy aren't even close.
3%of the LDS population practiced polygamy. Ourfemale ancestors were businesswomen, landowners, teachers, etc. One sent her daughter to Europe to study art. These were independent law-abiding women. They were interested in politics, and dressed in modern styles of the day. No one ran these marriages but the husband and each wife involved. One wife among five, divorced her husband. Another went on a mission to Hawaii w/her husband, but chose to stay to become an LDS-teacher. These women had more freedoms than the men. One thing marking them is their willingness to follow the Lord. When word came to stop polygamy, these women and men were the first to teach their children the law was finished and they could now resume the standard form of marriage. To my knowledge, none of their decedents chose to continue this dead law.
The past LDSplurality and today's polygamy aren't even close.
3%of the LDS population practiced polygamy. Ourfemale ancestors were businesswomen, landowners, teachers, etc. One sent her daughter to Europe to study art. These were independent law-abiding women. They were interested in politics, and dressed in modern styles of the day. No one ran these marriages but the husband and each wife involved. One wife among five, divorced her husband. Another went on a mission to Hawaii w/her husband, but chose to stay to become an LDS-teacher. These women had more freedoms than the men. One thing marking them is their willingness to follow the Lord. When word came to stop polygamy, these women and men were the first to teach their children the law was finished and they could now resume the standard form of marriage. To my knowledge, none of their decedents chose to continue this dead law.
To John Pack Lambert | 5:17 p.m. July 27, 2008
From Pots and Kettles.
Answer: When abuse by a particular priesthood holder is reported to a bishop and/or stake leader by more than one woman and nothing is done about it, it is the bishop/stake leader who is not listening to the Prophet's voice.
Answer: When abuse by a particular priesthood holder is reported to a bishop and/or stake leader by more than one woman and nothing is done about it, it is the bishop/stake leader who is not listening to the Prophet's voice.
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Stephen Singular, left, and former FLDS members Dan Fischer of Sandy and Carolyn Jessop of West Jordan are sworn in Thursday prior to testifying.
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