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Pro-polygamy group educates inside, outside their community
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just thinking out loud | 12:46 a.m. July 24, 2008
i have known polygamist women---i have seen generally happy people but with a
tendency to secrecy---i have also seen solemn curiosity about the way i and my
family lived---i think that polygamy itself is probably as much a personal
choice as any other life style if it is lived by informed adults---as such i
think that just raising the marrying age to 18 is not enough---there also needs
to be some method of education in those closed communities to provide real
choice to their members; whether that is seminars, more tv or internet, or
requirements for outside living prior to marriage---i personally do not feel
that God wants that lifestyle for us in America but recognize there are several
other lifestyle choices that are not supported by God either as our prophets
have let us know---i have always considered that critical thinking combined with
high standards and self discipline would bring us all closer to a better world
and polygamy per se need not be a detriment
Cats | 5:34 a.m. July 24, 2008
I don't believe there are any happy women in polygamy. I believe there are
a lot of women who are living in denial because they really have no other
choice.
Polygamy is immoral and degrading to women.
This whole organization makes we want to THROW UP.
Polygamy is immoral and degrading to women.
This whole organization makes we want to THROW UP.
Polygamy dominating headlines | 6:41 a.m. July 24, 2008
I'm tired of reading about this small sect of backwood hillbilies from
Hildale. I'm tired of every polygamist posting every time an article
appears. They want to withdraw from society, and at the same time influence
society to support them. They break rank with the LDS church, then expect help
from them when they need it. Please go away! You are an embarrassment to every
westerner! Please intermarry, you gene pool is really stale.
Comments continue below
Pat | 7:34 a.m. July 24, 2008
Sad to read that some are so irritated that they find it necessary to become
rude and downright un-Christian. The 6:41 a.m. poster, I hope, never considers
themself a Christian.
I know 1 polygamist family quite well. It is very basic to say that the make-up of that family is obviously (to everyone except to themselves) a self-defeated, deceptive group of 5 origional wives and 30 children who were origionally blind to the FACT that 1 man cannot support nor be a "father" to that many children. So, at the onset, this group has purposely produced children as fast as possible and leaves it up to "cleverness" and young mothers to do a fathers` job of SUPPORTING. That and gov`t deception (food stamps, etc).
The lifestyle is perpetuated by isolating the children and "accepted" paternal elevation (to the point of rediculousness).
Adult polygamy should be a choice, in my opinion, as long as the FATHER can support TOTALLY the family without "brainwashed" very young women carrying the financial burden.......At present (and during the past), the men "ran the show" for their OWN benefit and spiritual "advancement".
I wish the best for all polygamist children. Sad.
I know 1 polygamist family quite well. It is very basic to say that the make-up of that family is obviously (to everyone except to themselves) a self-defeated, deceptive group of 5 origional wives and 30 children who were origionally blind to the FACT that 1 man cannot support nor be a "father" to that many children. So, at the onset, this group has purposely produced children as fast as possible and leaves it up to "cleverness" and young mothers to do a fathers` job of SUPPORTING. That and gov`t deception (food stamps, etc).
The lifestyle is perpetuated by isolating the children and "accepted" paternal elevation (to the point of rediculousness).
Adult polygamy should be a choice, in my opinion, as long as the FATHER can support TOTALLY the family without "brainwashed" very young women carrying the financial burden.......At present (and during the past), the men "ran the show" for their OWN benefit and spiritual "advancement".
I wish the best for all polygamist children. Sad.
Linda | 7:53 a.m. July 24, 2008
It is not choice or preference for or against polygmy, It is an obidience to the
commandment of God as revealed to the prophet Joseph Smith. If it were not for
the persecution of the gentiles and the abuse of some unjust men and a few
husbands polygmy is the best family way to live a happy and complete life in
accordance with God's law for the well being of man.
mainstream lds | 8:23 a.m. July 24, 2008
Cats comment and the one by polygamy dominating headlines makes me want to throw
up. I consider one of the founding members of Principle Voices a very good
friend. I am "Mainstream LDS" but that doesn't prevent me from
respecting her choice to live her beliefs. I wonder if all these sanctimonious
"Christians" would tolerate Abraham and the other prophets, including
Joseph Smith if they were alive today. I love the Prophet Joseph, but that
doesn't stop me from knowing that what he said publicly in Nauvoo--denying
plural marriage existed, did not prevent him from privately practicing a
celestial principle. And yes it is still an eternal principle, even though not
currently sanctioned by the Church. LDS -- re-read Section 132. Stop blanketing
all fundamentalists with the same brush--anybody remember the Golden Rule out
there? I know there are happy women in the principle. Allow them the same
courtesy you would like accorded yourself.
L | 8:31 a.m. July 24, 2008
While I do not support polygamy, to treat everyone equal we would have to apply
the same test to everyone for the FATHER to be able to support TOTALLY his
family as suggested by Pat at 7:34.
One of the great problems faced in our society (in my opinion) is fathers who do not have the long-term committment to their families. I certainly don't have the answer, but the number of single mothers who need public assistance to even survive testifys to the problem.
The father's support of his family is not always limited to financial either. It seems in many areas, the motto must be "IF THE GOIN GETS ROUGH - GET GOIN !"
While the article is about pologamy, some of the same problems that we critize of that lifestyle certainly be problems for others as well.
I hope that we can find the right solutions to encourage proper family relationships.
One of the great problems faced in our society (in my opinion) is fathers who do not have the long-term committment to their families. I certainly don't have the answer, but the number of single mothers who need public assistance to even survive testifys to the problem.
The father's support of his family is not always limited to financial either. It seems in many areas, the motto must be "IF THE GOIN GETS ROUGH - GET GOIN !"
While the article is about pologamy, some of the same problems that we critize of that lifestyle certainly be problems for others as well.
I hope that we can find the right solutions to encourage proper family relationships.
Karen | 8:47 a.m. July 24, 2008
"the well being of man." What about the well being of woman?
ws | 8:50 a.m. July 24, 2008
Some of the arguments sound familiar to those pushing the gay-lifestyle 30 years
ago.
Dave in Midvale | 8:54 a.m. July 24, 2008
Here's how it should go. . .
When the polygamists go to congress to voice their views. . . ARREST THEM - TAKE THEM TO COURT - CONVICT THEM - PUT THEM IN PRISON!!!
Boy, you'd see this whole thing die down like a bucket of water on a camp fire.
Nuf said!
When the polygamists go to congress to voice their views. . . ARREST THEM - TAKE THEM TO COURT - CONVICT THEM - PUT THEM IN PRISON!!!
Boy, you'd see this whole thing die down like a bucket of water on a camp fire.
Nuf said!
Leave the polygs alone | 9:07 a.m. July 24, 2008
In the book "Sex & Reason" by Richard Posner, the author offers
the argument that polygamy has been outlawed because these large polygamous
clans threaten the power and authority of government.
In a free country, I like the government's power and authority to be threatened.
I've known many polygamists and some are good folks, some not so good.
So long as one isn't harming anyone else, the government should leave them alone (in the meantime, it's understandable why they would be secretive, given the laws punishing polygamists).
In a free country, I like the government's power and authority to be threatened.
I've known many polygamists and some are good folks, some not so good.
So long as one isn't harming anyone else, the government should leave them alone (in the meantime, it's understandable why they would be secretive, given the laws punishing polygamists).
Taft | 9:15 a.m. July 24, 2008
How is it that the church believes the Prophet Joseph Smith's revelation
for polygmy was a true commandment of God, but now they say that later church
presidents received instructions to stop polygmy. This seems strange, it puts a
limitation on God's capacity to see future events, when He gave Joseph
Smith the revelation if it were for only a time He would have revealed to Joseph
Smith that it was for a short time only. So who is in error: God, Joseph Smith,
todays church leaders; who are we to believe. Is the church just giving in to
the Gentiles.
Not Normal | 9:29 a.m. July 24, 2008
I, too, am tired of the immoral polygamist headlines. Since when did adultery
become such important news? These people are sex maniacs, sex abusers, and need
to be all rounded up and thrown into the nearest jail along with their goofy
prophet. I'm truly tired of feeling sick at my stomach everyday while
reading the news and looking at their repulsive pictures. Rotten worms!
okiedokie | 9:27 a.m. July 24, 2008
Out of the 1000's of plyg families, there are probably less than 1 dozen
that are
1. Self sufficient (the father makes enough money to care for all of his wives and children with out the need for any state aid)
2. The wives were all of age and entered the relationship willing and un-coerced(no "placements" by the profit)
That's it, the other 99% are 1. poor (lying and deceiving to recieve aid to support themeselves and thier children) 2. "placed" into the marriage 3. Follow a false profit (convicted pedaphile) 4. Lack basic educational skills 5. Controlled and manipulated by men
Prinicple voices - I think you should put your efforts into helping these women in children that are stuck, trapped, in abusive arrangements instead of pushing for an agenda that really cannot be pulled off financially by the average American family
1. Self sufficient (the father makes enough money to care for all of his wives and children with out the need for any state aid)
2. The wives were all of age and entered the relationship willing and un-coerced(no "placements" by the profit)
That's it, the other 99% are 1. poor (lying and deceiving to recieve aid to support themeselves and thier children) 2. "placed" into the marriage 3. Follow a false profit (convicted pedaphile) 4. Lack basic educational skills 5. Controlled and manipulated by men
Prinicple voices - I think you should put your efforts into helping these women in children that are stuck, trapped, in abusive arrangements instead of pushing for an agenda that really cannot be pulled off financially by the average American family
Brainless | 9:51 a.m. July 24, 2008
Re leave the polys alone,---as long as they are not harming anyone?
What planet are you from? The Flds polygamist learn to abuse from day ONE! Their cult is a SEX cult. Women are brainwashed from the time they are babies to believe they are here only to serve for a mans purpose and to be sexual abuse from the time they are children on up. One thing about the polygamist columns, within the news, you can get a chance to read the comments of the most stupid people who were ever born into this world. A bunch of duh nothings!
What planet are you from? The Flds polygamist learn to abuse from day ONE! Their cult is a SEX cult. Women are brainwashed from the time they are babies to believe they are here only to serve for a mans purpose and to be sexual abuse from the time they are children on up. One thing about the polygamist columns, within the news, you can get a chance to read the comments of the most stupid people who were ever born into this world. A bunch of duh nothings!
re: PAT | 9:52 a.m. July 24, 2008
Pat, Christianity never requires the acceptance of sin. Please think before you
post next time.
to okie dokie: | 9:57 a.m. July 24, 2008
It's prophet not profit, otherwise you made some good points. My LDS
prophet never would tell me to break any laws...these fake fundamentalists think
they have to break this one law...which leads to breaking other laws and
mooching off the welfare system. I'm glad that they are trying to raise
the marriage age to 18 and I hope they can all stick to that. In the ancient
bible days and in ancient LDS polygamy, the men had to be able to totally
support the wives. I know because my great great great grandfather was a
wealthy business man and married two sisters that were in their twenties who
would not have had a chance to marry otherwise. When the word came from the
prophet to end polygamy, he still supported the wives but all of his children
married only one wife or husband. These so called fundamentalists are in a state
of defiance and apostasy. When are they going to realize this?
HarryL | 10:01 a.m. July 24, 2008
Let's say, for the sake of argument, a social group formed and polygamy was
proclaimed legal. Also the argument used to legalize it was so persuasive that
it could not be denied in any society, and was now universally accepted
throughout the world. If that were the case would the LDS Church change its
stance on its doctrine? I think before this can be asked, one needs to have a
clear understanding of how polygamy functions in this day and age. Marriage is
ordained of God. The Church, in my view, is not going to do anything to permit
or allow the degradation of the family or the institution of marriage. We need
to know where polygamy, in its present form, is heading and not be deluded into
thinking that just because someone utters the words "polygamy" that it
is the same institution which formed in the days of the Church be it modern or
ancient; and that it is simply the term 'polygamy' that makes it
holy--like a magic of some sort. The Church has made its doctrine very clear.
It's Illegal | 10:24 a.m. July 24, 2008
The FLDS live an anarchist lifestyle, sequestered away from the normal
population in order to hide the what they "believe" is a required
religious practice. In this country, polygamy is illegal.
To futher complicate things, it's morally degrading and freedom suppressing to deprive the women of this sect from a proper education, marry very young women to much older men after suppressing their education to know any different (Taliban?), perpetrate the same crimes again unto the next generation, fail to properly father their sons - many of whom have been evicted from the sect to avoid competition.
The FLDS has missed one of the most fundamental beliefs Joseph Smith advocated, and that was to uphold the laws of the land. Polygamy aside, I find it repulsive that FLDS men marry girls aged 11-18. Those girls are deprived of their freedoms before they even understand what freedom is. Those poor girls are not aware they are breaking the law.
The basis of most religions is obedience to God. What about lying, slavery, child abuse, deception, and theft? What about a parent's obligation to all of their children?
Some FLDS are no doubt nice people, but polygamy is still wrong.
To futher complicate things, it's morally degrading and freedom suppressing to deprive the women of this sect from a proper education, marry very young women to much older men after suppressing their education to know any different (Taliban?), perpetrate the same crimes again unto the next generation, fail to properly father their sons - many of whom have been evicted from the sect to avoid competition.
The FLDS has missed one of the most fundamental beliefs Joseph Smith advocated, and that was to uphold the laws of the land. Polygamy aside, I find it repulsive that FLDS men marry girls aged 11-18. Those girls are deprived of their freedoms before they even understand what freedom is. Those poor girls are not aware they are breaking the law.
The basis of most religions is obedience to God. What about lying, slavery, child abuse, deception, and theft? What about a parent's obligation to all of their children?
Some FLDS are no doubt nice people, but polygamy is still wrong.
Cats | 10:31 a.m. July 24, 2008
I would like to point out again that Joseph Smith NEVER taught that plural
marriage was required for the celestrial kingdom. Neither did Brigham Young.
If you read your Book of Mormon you will find that "many wives" is defined as an abomination before God. It is only to be practiced when "commanded by God." That Commandment was withdrawn in 1890.
I feel terribly sorry for these people. Enabling them and accepting their behavior does not help them or the children that are also being victimized.
I repeat: Polygamy is illegal, immoral and degrading to women, not to mention all the other illegal activities that typically accompany the practice. The fact that "Maintstream LDS" thinks this illegal behavior should be tolerated makes me want to THROW UP SOME MORE.
If you read your Book of Mormon you will find that "many wives" is defined as an abomination before God. It is only to be practiced when "commanded by God." That Commandment was withdrawn in 1890.
I feel terribly sorry for these people. Enabling them and accepting their behavior does not help them or the children that are also being victimized.
I repeat: Polygamy is illegal, immoral and degrading to women, not to mention all the other illegal activities that typically accompany the practice. The fact that "Maintstream LDS" thinks this illegal behavior should be tolerated makes me want to THROW UP SOME MORE.
Cats | 10:48 a.m. July 24, 2008
To Taft: We don't know that the Lord DIDN'T tell Joseph Smith that it
was for a short time only. Many (I would venture to say most) of the
revelations Joseph Smith received were not recorded. I think it is highly
probable that Joseph did know that it would only be for a short time until the
purpose was fulfilled.
Joseph Smith counseled the people to "stay with the main body of the Church. That is where the truth will be." He foresaw that there would be a lot of these little splinter groups that would try to claim authority. HE WAS WARNING THE PEOPLE NOT TO BE DECEIVED. Unfortunately, many are.
Joseph Smith counseled the people to "stay with the main body of the Church. That is where the truth will be." He foresaw that there would be a lot of these little splinter groups that would try to claim authority. HE WAS WARNING THE PEOPLE NOT TO BE DECEIVED. Unfortunately, many are.
Anonymous | 12:01 p.m. July 24, 2008
I need educating on a very important subject.
Why do polygamous women resort to criminal activity by defrauding the food stamp and social services programs of both the State and Federal governments?
Why do polygamous law enforcement and polygamous judicial courts don't interface with County and State law enforcement and judicial systems, but act as a law totally unto themselves?
Why do the men of polygamous sects are determined to not step forward and speak for themselves instead of hiding behind the skirts of their multiple wives?
Why don't the polygamous communities, their leaders and residents simply admit that wrong has taken place, clean it up, and set checks and balances in place to make sure such things don't happen again, and when they do that consequences are swift and sure.
And lastly, why doesn't the Mormon Church squarely admit and accept that these break off polygamous sects are part of its history, doing and culture, just like the many break offs of other foundational Christian, Islamic, Judaic, Hindu and Buddhistic religions have seen as part of their ongoing history?
So the Mormon Church has break off polygamous sects... the Mormon Church itself is not its sects, but itsOwn UniqueSelf.
Why do polygamous women resort to criminal activity by defrauding the food stamp and social services programs of both the State and Federal governments?
Why do polygamous law enforcement and polygamous judicial courts don't interface with County and State law enforcement and judicial systems, but act as a law totally unto themselves?
Why do the men of polygamous sects are determined to not step forward and speak for themselves instead of hiding behind the skirts of their multiple wives?
Why don't the polygamous communities, their leaders and residents simply admit that wrong has taken place, clean it up, and set checks and balances in place to make sure such things don't happen again, and when they do that consequences are swift and sure.
And lastly, why doesn't the Mormon Church squarely admit and accept that these break off polygamous sects are part of its history, doing and culture, just like the many break offs of other foundational Christian, Islamic, Judaic, Hindu and Buddhistic religions have seen as part of their ongoing history?
So the Mormon Church has break off polygamous sects... the Mormon Church itself is not its sects, but itsOwn UniqueSelf.
Ruby | 2:14 p.m. July 24, 2008
Who are the gentiles, are mormons gentiles or are people of utah gentiles if not
are they jews, do the gentiles not like the mormons, if so why.
realitycheck | 5:37 p.m. July 24, 2008
re - Ruby 2:14pm
the gentiles are the people that are gentile to their children and treat them gentiley. If you would ge gentile to everyone and kind to everyone, there wuld be no problems.
It's important to treat women gentiley since they may be fragile and you should treat fragile things like women and children gentiley.
And yes, most jews are gentile, as most people are gentile, and should be and that's a good thing. Only people like Willie Jessop are not gentile to others, and many FLDS men are not gentile to their families. They should be gentile, though, since it is the right thing to do. Being gentile to others is a good thing.
Understand? Are you gentile? I would hope so - it's better than being the opposite, which is mean and rude and rough-treating.
the gentiles are the people that are gentile to their children and treat them gentiley. If you would ge gentile to everyone and kind to everyone, there wuld be no problems.
It's important to treat women gentiley since they may be fragile and you should treat fragile things like women and children gentiley.
And yes, most jews are gentile, as most people are gentile, and should be and that's a good thing. Only people like Willie Jessop are not gentile to others, and many FLDS men are not gentile to their families. They should be gentile, though, since it is the right thing to do. Being gentile to others is a good thing.
Understand? Are you gentile? I would hope so - it's better than being the opposite, which is mean and rude and rough-treating.
Voice of Children counts too | 11:02 p.m. July 24, 2008
I liked the homophone swap: profit for prophet. It fits.
God, NEVER | 9:58 p.m. July 26, 2008
NEVER commanded, polygamy. Where do you people get that, from?? Just because
polygamy was practised in the O.T. by Abraham, etc. does not mean that God
commanded it. If it were so, then God MUST HAVE commanded slavery.
One man...one woman, that was the ratio...from the beginning of creation. In the N.T. Jesus re-affirms it.
.
One man...one woman, that was the ratio...from the beginning of creation. In the N.T. Jesus re-affirms it.
.
Wendy | 2:38 p.m. July 30, 2008
I am outraged that a group would think only one person can hear God's
whisper! I have been in many situations where I feel something on my heart and
just have to act on it. God chose to use me as a vessel in those situations. God
doesn't just choose women to breed but He also can use them for His will in
other situations. How dare anyone try and stand between God and the vessel He
chose.
As good ole Willie says "We don't believe their evidence is credible." "We don't believe they obtained it legally, but we'll stand up in court and face the allegations," he said. "We believe in our innocence." What does that say about 1 of the ten commandments? Dah! Let's see he is admitting that they are guilty by just stating the evidenced isn't credible! Wow! Keep talking Willie you make me laugh! :)The way he openly admits the only defense they have is to fight against the evidence. Standing on one leg will get tiring. They believe in their innocence! Give me a break after that statement. I think these parents should even be in trouble for lack of education for their children!
As good ole Willie says "We don't believe their evidence is credible." "We don't believe they obtained it legally, but we'll stand up in court and face the allegations," he said. "We believe in our innocence." What does that say about 1 of the ten commandments? Dah! Let's see he is admitting that they are guilty by just stating the evidenced isn't credible! Wow! Keep talking Willie you make me laugh! :)The way he openly admits the only defense they have is to fight against the evidence. Standing on one leg will get tiring. They believe in their innocence! Give me a break after that statement. I think these parents should even be in trouble for lack of education for their children!
Zena | 5:37 p.m. March 12, 2009
If
God wanted polygamy the birthrate would look quite different.
Of course they could adopt Polyandry, one women taking up with several of the superfluous males to even things out. Have the polygamists thought of that?
Nothing but an attempt to dignify adultery. Poor girls, thinking they need a man to make it into the kingdom of heaven. what an insult to Jesus.
God wanted polygamy the birthrate would look quite different.
Of course they could adopt Polyandry, one women taking up with several of the superfluous males to even things out. Have the polygamists thought of that?
Nothing but an attempt to dignify adultery. Poor girls, thinking they need a man to make it into the kingdom of heaven. what an insult to Jesus.
Margaret | 5:44 p.m. March 12, 2009
Oh, my, aren't we all a sorry bunch. So sad and soooo sorry for these half
brained people. Boo hoo hoo! utah needs a brain lift....boo hoo hoo!
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