Reader comments
'Megapolitans' may be facing mega troubles

Wonderful article | 2:02 a.m. July 20, 2008

Absolutely true. These places have horrible mass-transit (TRAX is only a beginning) and traffic is becoming more and more a nightmare in these places, that on a global scale are really not that big. So yes, let's push to invest in infrastructure to sustain the economic viability of the West, including Salt Lake City

Was a Democrat | 3:39 a.m. July 20, 2008

Well, central planning here we come! But, hold on a minute. Why are so many of the western metroplexes such a mess? The answer is the Federal Government with its massive investment in highways. In 1945 the west had some of the most advanced electric interurban railways in the world, private and tax-paying. But government's insistance on their replacement with public sector roads doomed the electric interurban railway to a very premature death. The ending of the Bay Area Key system and the initial planning for BART were sepearated by only 5 years! What waste! The government road networks have given us pollution, global warming, and the degraded social climate which goes with sprawl. The electric interurbans were private sector. I say it is time to give private enterprise a chance, and cut the central planning crapola.

Federal Government? | 5:27 a.m. July 20, 2008

We have Federal Laws thet Utah does not want to abide by
One being the U.S Constitution
Civil Rights and the Rights to Liberty
The apledgence to the Falg says Liberty and Justice for all
That is not happening
The Media is hushing all Constitutional rights such as Freedom of Press
The Media is a Federal Criminal blocking the Peoples Rights

Comments continue below

Pat | 6:21 a.m. July 20, 2008

"America`s Remaining FRONTIER" with that "can-do" spirit" wants GOVERNMENT to participate in combining various metropolitan areas into a "unit"?
Did I read that right?
Where on earth did the OLD frontier "can do" spirit come from? Government?
Incredible, phony and rediculous thinking!
THIMK !

Cosmo | 7:39 a.m. July 20, 2008

Another Big Government snow job,with their supporting cast of "Boot Licking Lackeys".

Anonymous | 8:04 a.m. July 20, 2008

Just another commentator telling us we are too stupid to get out of bed without the help of the Federal Government.

Show me the money | 8:51 a.m. July 20, 2008

I'd like the government to show me exactly where they're going to generate all the money it will take to LINK the west. In which industries have they invested that are going to produce the interest that will be spent on these projects?

WHAT? My pay stub? That's their income? Forget it.

How about we take private sector bids on this.

How about we hire the best engineers in the world and let them plan something that will knock our socks off and that we can actually invest in and get a return on our money.

How about we DON'T use the central government planners who couldn't get a job anywhere else.

How about we don't do something that will indebt our great grandchildren and leave them with a tangled mess of transportation and communication nightmares.

Confused | 9:21 a.m. July 20, 2008

The West is the region with:

- The most livable conditions

- The least traffic and pollution

- The longest life expectancy

- The most freedom

Apparently the people behind this study think those are problems that need to be cured by the federal government.

Look at all the things the federal government has "fixed"--crime, poverty, drugs, illegal immigration--and it's easy to see that when the government offers to fix something, you run the other way if you are wise.

Dan in Vegas | 9:25 a.m. July 20, 2008

Wouldn't it be inspiring if somehow the citizens of these 5 megapolitans could come together without waiting for the "leadership" of the Federal government and plan their own future? Have we really arrived at a place where we are unable to accomplish great tasks without their "help"? I believe that Western citizens with vision could take the lead and create a tremendous new paradigm! Hey - wouldn't that be me? And you?

MetricWrench | 9:32 a.m. July 20, 2008

I must say that I have never read a stranger bunch of responses to an article on this site. What on earth are all of you talking about. The article simply states that these areas have a lot of potential to do some good things economically for this country, they just need more help from the federal government in the way of funding and planning. What is up with al the conspiracy talk, and talk of global warming, and injustice against man! You people are crazy!

No dogma please | 10:25 a.m. July 20, 2008

All our major infrastructure exists from governmental planning. How would the private sector build a freeway or a light rail line? The point of the story is lets plan smarter than we have been. Big roads are doomed to congestion as soon as they are built - homebuyers buy the cheap land far from work to take advantage of the new road. It doesn't take too many to follow out to the edge of the region until we have created a less efficient, more sprawling and polluting metro area. We need public transportation and pragmatic solutions - both private and public. Quit the dogma and look for solutions.

Constitution supporter | 10:29 a.m. July 20, 2008

There you go again, it's snowing again from the media and the National Government PR system. When are we going to catch on that Federal govt. wants to control everything. More govt. is more socialism and what they want is not what the Founding Father wanted. When are the people going to stand up and take notice that this is not what the Founding Fathers wanted and get back to the Principles of the Constitution. "We the People" want big Govt. out of our lives.

re: metricwrench | 10:49 a.m. July 20, 2008

Why do they need help from the federal government?

Because this article says so, that's why. There ain't no other reason. And you bought into it.

The rest of us are sick of being told by government officials (exactly why are they "official? but I digress) telling us what's wrong with us and how they're going to fix us.

They have more likely than not CREATED the very problems they're trying to fix. That spells disaster. If a plumber floods your house are you going trust him to repair the damage?

Heard of I-Provo? Disaster.

Illegal immigration? Disaster.

Foreign Policy? Disaster.

Economic policy? Disaster.

This is not conspiracy talking. This is real world. Why on earth would an engineer work for the federal government when he can make ten times the salary in the private sector? BECAUSE HE'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO SURVIVE IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR!

People work for the government when they're not smart enough to work for anyone else. Or when they're not brave enough.

Are those the people you want planning your country?

re: dogma | 11:05 a.m. July 20, 2008

You've got to be kidding me.

The government builds roads therefore private corporations cannot?!? Really?

Government has to contract with the road builders in the first place, so private corps are building them anyway! Get the government out of it. Why must officials be the middle man? They mustn't. That's the answer.

Think outside the box. Good grief. Stop thinking that the government is the solution and start thinking that it's the problem, cuz it is.

Think of better solutions. Think of the future of your children and grandchildren before you rack up another trillion in debt.

KingM | 11:08 a.m. July 20, 2008

Confused wrote:

The West is the region with:
- The most livable conditions
KingM: What? According to whom? I live in Vermont and people up here might take issue with that. We have beautiful green mountains, no air pollution or traffic, wonderful schools (my kids have class sizes if ~12 students, go skiing on Fridays in Winter and learn foreign languages and music in public elementary school), and cute little towns. No billboards or suburban sprawl up here.

Confused: - The least traffic and pollution
KingM: Hah. That's funny. There's no traffic in SL and Utah Counties?

Confused: - The longest life expectancy
KingM: I've heard Utah does, but do the other Western states?
- The most freedom
KingM: Why? You guys have a different Constitution?

One problem I've found with some Utahns is that they think they've got the best of everything and anything. It doesn't matter if you're trying to convince them to put in a roundabout or make a sign ordinance, if it developed somewhere else they want nothing to do with it.

The world doesn't turn into a cesspool of filth and degradation the minute you hit the state line (Wendover notwithstanding).

diligentdave | 11:08 a.m. July 20, 2008

Just deed most all of the Federal Lands to the western states and/or its citizens. Let ranchers who have rented ranch land for so many years have first rights to get Fed land cheaply.

If we did this, we would not need Federal Government coffers, and we wouldn't remain the colonies we are to the national government, and to all of the special interests who control it.

to: Demo 3:39 | 11:37 a.m. July 20, 2008

It wasn't the feds that closed the trolley systems.

It was Big Oil. They bought and closed the privately owned railways. Then they lobbied Congress for the Interstate Highway System to sell cars. (A simple search on the Internet will confirm this.)

Same Big Oil folks that met privately w/VP Cheney to set the current oil policy. How are we liking it so far?

How are we liking it so far?

re:re:metricwrench | 11:40 a.m. July 20, 2008

What are you talking about? Some of the most brilliant engineers in history have been government employees. Those who have worked for NASA would be just a few examples. Many have reasons other than money that motivate them to work for the government.

mark | 12:17 p.m. July 20, 2008

Man, you people live in a fantasy world. It seems like you have no idea how the real world works. You say let the private sector do it.
And what exactly is the private sector going to do? Rebuild a deteriorating infrastructure? On their own? Just let any company that wants to come in and build something do it. No government oversight? You know, as in the people we elect. As in our neighbors.
You want something to be messed up, bring in international companies to take care of the problem. I am sure that they will do what is best for the area and the people. Megacorp would never just come in and take the money they wanted with no regard to the damage and then blow town. No, megacorp, is very concerned about the welfare of the people, just look at their benevolent track record.

We are not the Southwest | 12:24 p.m. July 20, 2008

Salt Lake City lies on exactly the same latitude as New York City.

The Wasatch Front is not in the Southwest!

mark | 1:06 p.m. July 20, 2008

And then dude at 10:49 says "People work for the government when they're not smart enough to work for anyone else. Or when they're not brave enough."

Is this. . . person, trying to say that the firefighters, police officers, and military personnel are not "brave enough?" Or smart enough?

Hey, they all work for the government.

You know something dude, next time you are in a traffic accident, injured, or your house is burning down, hey do me a personal favor and don't call 911, call a private firm okay, and by the time you have gotten through their automated phone system, and then talked to someone in India, hey you tell 'em how glad you are they did not have you on hold for too long.

Or maybe the next time you see a firefighter or cop or soldier, you can thank them for putting their lives on the line for your sorry ungrateful self.
 (Monitor person would not let me say what I really think about this person.)

re dogma | 1:14 p.m. July 20, 2008

Privatizing roads? you really have fallen off the turnip truck. I tkhink, as i am sure that most sane people do, that the government should be the organizastion taking charge of our road system. OUr poole money and resources can do much more than any private company ever could, or could ever afford to. The federal goverment's inability to fix the infastructure has nothing to do with thier ability to do so, and everything to do with the corrupt right wing fannatics making sure that it will never happen. The right wing, it seems has been very hesitant to push anything through that wont give them a kick back, I am sure that road construction would as well-but probably not as big as one they would get for giving a tax break to an oil company.

Here is some of the best advice you are ever going to hear. Get out of bed with the money making schemes of the right wing, take a breath of fresh air, and for what sounds like will be the first time in your life, think. let me assure you that you will be just fine disagreeing with these people.

Don't Go There | 2:44 p.m. July 20, 2008

"I'm from Washington, I'm here to help". Not too darn likely.

Dual federalist | 3:01 p.m. July 20, 2008

The article is right. We do need the help of the Federal Government. Why? Because they've taken all the money that could have gone to the state and local governments and are holding it for ransom. They will only give it back if we agree to do things their way. It's the way the federal government gets around the enumerated powers in the constitution (but still unconstitutionally, in my opinion).

This needs to stop! There's no reason why the federal government should fund and control local projects. If they didn't try to fund and control everything, they wouldn't have to impose such a huge federal tax burden, and the state and local governments would be able to raise their own tax funds without making their population broke. And they'd probably do it in a more cost effective way too, not to mention being more in-line with local needs.

McMansion fever spurred... | 3:05 p.m. July 20, 2008

...the growth throughout the Salt Lake Valley, and now the housing bubble has burst.

So who's going to pay for these roads out to Nowheresville in the SW portion of the valley? The people who own the McMansions?

Of course not.

While you all whine your little anti-government screeds, you're all living off the taxpayers who've been responsible citizens.

Utah IS a cesspool of overbuilding, too many roads, more roads needed, overpopulation....all fueled by a right-wing mentality of "as long as it's not MY pocket, who cares about anyone else"?

Neil | 3:13 p.m. July 20, 2008

metric wrtench and no dogma right on. I work for UTA. No private entity could ever operate a mass transit system and make a profit. They would have to charge 4 times what UTA charges for a bus ride. As far as highways it is General Motors and big oil that dismantled public transportation so everyone would drive a car. The result pollution, congestion, urban sprawl, and a nation that worships automobiles. Urban planning is not socialism it is common sense. Visit Japan 36 million people live in the Tokyo area without half the problems we have here. Less crime and I never saw one rusted piece of crap car on the road.

Kurt of Corona, CA | 3:29 p.m. July 20, 2008

What? We're not complex and congested enough to be considered part of the real world? If anyone is suggesting that we need to be more like New York and the East Coast, we should pull out our guns and tell them to get the he.. out! Just more of the same old smug east coast better-then-thou thinking. We actually have successful ways of doing things here that don't include vast inner-city slums, corrupt big bosses, and phoney intellectual elitism. When we decide to solve "problems" then it will be after we decide that there is one in the first place. For those that are unhappy with our miserable life-style, go east, young man, go east!

Anonymous | 3:37 p.m. July 20, 2008

I do not, and never will, nor will I ever want to, understand the hatred that many of these people have for the federal government. The federal government is our protectiuon from the tyranny of big business, who desires nothing more than to turn you into a never ending consumer of thier products, that you most likely dont need, to make them another dollar that they do not need.

Those who claim that the federal government has become to large, have truly missed the boat on a number of issues. Big business has been unchecked for the last thirty years, they have made the government thier own, and have silence all of thier critics. The goons that big business has bought political office for have turned this country into something resembling a police state. The fears of the founding fathers in many ways have been realized, by the actions of the current administration. The politicians that have gained to much power over the last thirty years that all bow down at the feet of Friedman. I am, and you should as well, be scared of a government that will take away my god given rights, not rebuild our roads.

Dr Evil | 3:53 p.m. July 20, 2008

YES! More micromanaging from 1500 miles away! My dream's are coming true! Please, PLEASE, Mr Bureuacrat, instruct me how to get to work. PLEASE, tell me where to work. Tell me how much of my pay you need to tell me these things! Give me direction, or give me death! Thank you for the alcohol and blankets, have my nation in return! Mr Bureaucrat, the global warmers melted my ice cream, will you take it from the guys who wrote ahead of me and give me theirs?

disillusioined | 3:57 p.m. July 20, 2008

And these (meaning all of your responses) are why I MOVED OUT OF THE WEST!!!!!!!!!!! This absolute FEAR of anyone else having knowledge beyond one's own, that might actually MAKE THINGS BETTER---this insanity of capitalistic worship in the WEST is why your GRANDCHILDREN won't likely be living there (except perhaps in Utah where so many people's children are AFRAID to move out BEYOND the mountainous terrain)!!! Well, that's fine with me. You can keep your "truth" toting fear INSIDE THE MOUNTAIN WEST!!!! Some of us would prefer to not be sucked into the belief that "all is well in Zion"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SLMG | 4:28 p.m. July 20, 2008

Get to the point, get the job done. The mass transit projects for the West and the whole country for that matter have to be undertaken now. The US is way behind in this because the big oil companys owned and/or run by the cheney's, Bush' and others of there ilk have insisted on burning fossil fuel to up there bottom line. The price of fuel is not going to go down, only up as the planet slowly runs out. This is not a local problem or even a national problem but a global problem. Quit nattering about the past mistakes and who is to blame, fix the problems that are in front of us now.

liberal Larry | 5:00 p.m. July 20, 2008

Big problems require big government. Life was easier when many of us lived in rural areas, but the increasing population density has created bigger, more complex problems. Crime, sprawl, air pollution, health care shortages, etc., are all examples of problems that many of us didn't grow up with, down on the farm, and which won't be solved by some magical free market solution. Whether we like it or not, the quality of our future is dependent on the quality of our federal and state leadership. The sooner conservatives quit demonizing government, and work on making it work more effectively, the better for everyone.

majortalktogroundcontrol | 7:11 p.m. July 20, 2008

man doesn't anybody get it ..if you look at the 70'-80 gas scare we're there again...that was to take off the people's mind off the costly war then as it is now. the patriot act is thrown around weaken the rights of the people and i don't mean illegals as they are treated like royalty already...border control , huh, the powers that be are trying to control who travels where and when as gas goes up ..soon to be regional travel only ..or gotsa to be rich...get ready for middle class to disapear...better start your food supply and instead of two make three...something is comming your way as the midwest from michigan, on are now turning into ghosts towns..no longer family farms ..and you tell me over and over again, oh, you don't ..believe we're on the eve of destruction...oh but i forgot we're america we can fix it by golly ..we just chase the world and get em all in line while the dinosaur kicks oour behind...i wonder just how big a caverns or empty lake we have left behind to continue to weaken the earth above what we have depleted?

Anonymous | 7:25 p.m. July 20, 2008

Thomas jefferson hated the idea of big goverment......The left-wing loons on here need to pull there heads out of there collage professor ass, and get a life!!!!!Big goverment is never the answer!!!!

Agree and disagree | 8:35 p.m. July 20, 2008

I agree that big government is not a good thing, and that going to the federal government for help would be foolish and/or fruitless.
But on the other hand, it seems that everytime the STATE or County tries to pay for and push for more transit, they're met with great opposition from the suburbanites, who get mad that the state wants to put a station within eye sight of their one-acre lots, or wants to impose a tax to fund it. The few who have the forsight to plan for our future and even current needs are in a tough position in my opinion. I for one favor whatever alternative there is to more cars and more roads.

Anonymous | 9:28 p.m. July 20, 2008

Thomas Jefferson lived over 200 years ago. You are insane if you think that either he or the people around him, experienced anything near the scale of the social and economic problems that we face. I agree with you that he was brilliant and rightfully disliked, the abuse of government power by the british. But, to say that he would hate the size of government, or what forms of government is a bold move. If you have ever read a book- sorry it sounds like you have not- you would realize that more than anything the founding fathers were scared of a government that could force them into unesescary wars, or take away their rights without a cause.

I would encourage you to quit listening to Rush Limbaugh, you really do not need to be one of his mindless shock troops. You sound like a complete idiot, and you obviously know nothing of American politics or history. Please do not attack people who are smarter than you, it tires us having to answer your mindless nonsense.

Matthew | 11:17 p.m. July 20, 2008

Please don't forget that the railroads, highways, and internet are all systems that owe their existence to government (you think the railroad barons did it all alone, read again). There is a much longer list than that but the expression "third world" refers to nations where there has been no governmental effort (We the People, you know) to bring about development for the benefit of all.

Limited government yes, but never no government.

THE BIG DIG | 3:44 p.m. July 21, 2008

Have you people heard what's happening in Boston right now? The government screwed the people.

Korea offered to do it for 1/10 of what the taxpayers are going to end up paying and it's taken way longer than the government promised.

And, the army corps of engineers is not exactly the group of first responders, is it? You can't choose some other topic to argue and think you're beating mine. Stick to the point, here. Government engineers are, for the most part, useless. Remember the levees in New Orleans?

mark | 7:21 p.m. July 21, 2008

I don't know about the big dig but was it really the fault of engineers?
As for the levees in New Orleans, maybe it would behoove you to learn what really happened with them. The engineers knew what would happen, they warned about it. The politicians wanted to save money.

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