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Book confronts LDS tragedy

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MMM | 8:53 p.m. July 22, 2008

Three M seems such an interesting book.I enjoy reading detective books.the more secret and misterious the better.anyway,the title is like a joke.MMM is about MORMON MEN being suspected of MURDER in the past.i am not anti mormon.its just that the title and the content fits each other.

SlowS | 8:54 p.m. July 22, 2008

Richard- Wikipedia indicates the Jewish people lost 6 million souls in the holocaust. Do you wish to say which sources put the figure as low as one-half of one million? It is estimated by The Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum that 1.1 million Jews were killed at that complex alone. If you get a chance, please post where the half-million figure originated.

PITY | 9:16 p.m. July 22, 2008

LDS still has 13 millions members,but has already puff up.If not you try to deceive people with mislead doctrines ,and sending missionaries everywhere ,i think you wont get new members. we are all here not to hate you,but only pity you coz you live under depressions covered in the name of obidient to the leaders of the church.while i think MMM is not important again ,it remind us to not blindly follow orders from the leaders.there is a lesson we all can learn here.

Comments continue below

Beth | 9:17 p.m. July 22, 2008

Good on Turley and the truth will be revieled. I think the anti-mormons will hate this book but there is not much more hate int them. Purhaps this will settle them down an bring the truth upon the non-LDS and the haters out there. I would think the anti-mormons have much to reconcile themselves with and this would be a start. Best of wishes. Please anit-mormons if it is not nice and just plain anti, take it somewhere else.

Beth

Fran | 9:20 p.m. July 22, 2008

Does any body know if this book will tell us who to snob at church if they are related to these LDS perpetrators? I plan too!

SlowS | 9:35 p.m. July 22, 2008

Fran, now THAT would be worth the price of the book. *laughing*

Lesson to be learned.. | 9:58 p.m. July 22, 2008

"If we want to uproot the causes of religious violence we must uproot the false certainties of religion." --Sam Harris--

Hope it's good... | 10:05 p.m. July 22, 2008

I look forward to reading this book. I don't deny the churches ability to produce things that are good, but based on past experience, just things that are truthful. Hope this is not another white-washing, guess we'll have to wait and see.

a new record! | 10:56 p.m. July 22, 2008

I wonder if there has ever been another crime that has been investigated so many times? This has to be a new record! The "barking dogs" NEED this so very badly to justify their hatred! They invent the controversy that B.Y.ordered the crime and when all the investigations can't find any evidence,the "dogs" bark "cover up, cover up!" If any objective study is done and STILL finds no evidence, the dogs bark,"cover up"! When will it end?

Stop the hate | 11:19 p.m. July 22, 2008

Lately I've been studying the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII and the hateful things that were said and written about them during that time. As I read through the comments posted on this MMM story, I find that attitudes expressed towards Mormons and the LDS Church in some of the comments are not so different from the discriminatory attitudes that existed towards Japanese Americans some 65 years ago. On the other hand, a few of the comments have said the Arkansas emigrants were "asking for it." NOONE deserves what those people got--the massacre was completely unjustifiable.

Please, as fellow human beings, can we learn from the past and stop the hate?

FACT | 11:35 p.m. July 22, 2008

HEY,Dogs bark when they see thief coming to the house,they bark when they see something strange or questionable things happen before their eyes.Dogs known to be faithfull and trust-worthy.They will defend their master to the very end,unlike snake who love to deceive,just as what happenned to Adam and Eve.So dogs always better than the snakes.anyway,i am waiting for the book.the whole story is really new to me.I never heard anything like this before.I hope Mormon people dont feel scared by this book,its part of the history that we all must know and learn,nothing more.

Re: fact | 12:08 a.m. July 23, 2008

They also chase cars. Not all dogs are faithful or trustworty and some get rabid!

I have a good idea... | 12:24 a.m. July 23, 2008

Since these early leaders are past and their fate is certain... you can get baptized for them by proxy and save their butts from the hell sentance they have coming. I doubt it works! read Hebrews 9:27

People get crazy when you challange their beliefs and chase them out of town!

LISA B. | 9:01 a.m. July 23, 2008

Why do you people keep making an issue out of the MMM? There have been much worse and are NOW much worse tragedies in our world then this one. You LDS need to give this history a rest. What's wrong with you people? Who cares about Brig-Young and his followers fighting with some nonmembers in the wild west. BLA BLA BLA! I will not buy the book!

Tory | 10:16 a.m. July 23, 2008

This article really gets me out of the spirit for the Mormon pioneer day celebration this week. I have 38 Mormon ancestors and "only one" who was also unfortunately involved in the Mountain Meadows Massacre. My family are scattered all over UTAH and mostly all very active LDS. I haven't decided as of yet if I want to buy the book or not?.. when it becomes available. This is a very touchy and sad event for me and my family and we still suffer today as a family over this tragedy. I hope somehow people can learn to forgive and leave this alone, to rest, and with God.

Have a nice Mormon Pioneer Day. You will be in my thoughts and prayers.

GC | 10:42 a.m. July 23, 2008

Whether your LDS or not, the truth should be known and the facts should be accounted for. The events that took place at Mountain Meadows should be researched and revealed completely. There should be no shame for the current members of the faith, only a full understanding of what took place. Those that perpetrated (or contributed to the perpetration of) the events, were human and fully capable of making mistakes (even as big as this one was). And because of that, they will be accountable in the end to the one that matters!

In the meantime, we learn to move forward by better understanding the past! I will purchase the book because I want to better understand what took place and why.

BTW... B.Y. was a great prophet. But he was not infallable - he was afterall, still human. His revelation on Blacks and the Priesthood was a mistake. As was the preaching that established the environment (atmosphere) that lead to the MMM tragedy. ... It is possible to be a good member of the Church and still understand that the Leadership is human and capable of making mistakes.

Do not follow blindly, but lead in truth.

Dave | 10:56 a.m. July 23, 2008

I never thought Brigham Young was a true Prophet. However, I just enjoy going to church for the social part of it. I think Brigham Young was definitely involved in M M M disaster. Many believe the church just makes him out as great guy to protect the membership, but we know in our hearts he was just a man.

To: Richard | 8:14 p.m. July 21 | 11:11 a.m. July 23, 2008

The statement was to prove a point that Mormons merely pick and choose where to apply facts to prove "truths" but, only when the outcome is to their benefit. When writings are plagiarized writing style comes along with it. (Ever heard of Solomon Spalding?) There are also hundreds if not thousands of words that have been added to the English language that are merely made up slang. So your argument holds no merit. There are also many facts that disprove the BOM. Ask yourself this:

Why have there been thousands of changes in the BOM?

Why are there so many plants and animals mentioned in the BOM that have been proven to not exist at the time the BOM takes place?

Why there are over 25 cities mentioned in the BOM that existed at the time of it's writing (1800's) but proven to be named before it's writing?

How about some evidence from the Hill Cumorah? An arrowhead a sword, anything?

Kinderhook Bell, Book of Abraham, Bank Fraud, inhabitants on the moon? The list goes on.

Oh and your three scribes...all left the "church" and or excommunicated. What does that tell you?

Your post has also helped prove my point.

Steven | 11:46 a.m. July 23, 2008

Re: GC
I would like to know what your personal interest is with the MMM. This seems to be quite important to you personally for some reason, and that the LDS church today some how stand accountable for the MMM of a 150 years ago... WHY IS THAT? It's the past and there is no new evidence. And if there were any evidence it would have been destroyed more than a century ago.

Daisy | 11:49 a.m. July 23, 2008

To GC The test of a TRUE prophet is they are right 100% of the time as they are getting their revelations from God whom is right 100% of the time as God never lies. So was BY a true prophet? Deosen't look like it.

re: TORY! | 12:03 p.m. July 23, 2008

You got it in your blood..pay the price, dear!

Chuck-American Fork | 12:03 p.m. July 23, 2008

Please give details of every wagon train for the 2 years before and after this event. Review how each group was treated by the Mormons. Can a pattern be established? What changed for this one group?
Some have referred to threats made by some in this group. Authors often refer to them as "idle threats". Was the Hans Mill Massacre an idle threat? Do we have absolute proof than someone did not threaten to get the United States Army to attack this settlement? Has anyone considered self-preservation as a possibility?
I will wait to make a personal judgement until I get enough facts and not just statements such as these people had "bright futures" implying the Mormon settlers did not.

Eddie | 12:19 p.m. July 23, 2008

All I can say folks, is that there was something that set these Mormon settlers off to the point of murder. Religious people just don't decide one day to go kill a bunch of people. There is more to this story than what has been told. These Mormon people were influenced by someone more powerful to commit these murders. WHY would they kill families when they had large families of their own? They were religious family people with children of their own. Something isn't making a lot of sense?

TOMMIE | 1:36 p.m. July 23, 2008

Does somebody want to tell me what is wrong with following the LDS church leader? what do they teach that is so bad?

They tell us not to drink alcohol, what is wrong with that?

They tell us not to have sex, Is that really that bad?

They tell us not to smoke,

They tell us not to steal,

They tell us not kill,

None of these things will hurt me if I follow them, so stop complaining that our leaders are so evil, there is nothing evil about men called by God. That isn't an argument, this is a fact, these men are called by God.

To Tommie | 2:11 p.m. July 23, 2008

How do you know, if they will lie to get the positions they will certainly lie to keep them, so who are we to believe.

RE: TO TOMMIE | 3:05 p.m. July 23, 2008

They aren't saying anything worth lying about, they could get a billion more followers if they went and said, "Go ahead and sleep with whoever you want, and go drink!" But they don't. They don't gain anything from telling us what they do.

I know these men are called of God because I have earnestly prayed about it, and I have recieved, an undeniable, not from me feeling that they are real prophets, scoff at me if you want, but hey, I know what I have felt and I will always follow men of God.

To Tommie | 3:24 p.m. July 23, 2008

How do you strattle the fence to follow all the men of God when they all have such different messages, the Pope says one thing, the fundamentlist something different and the mormons are constantly changing what they say. So to you follow what was said a few years ago or what is said now or what is not said but implied. Do the so called men of God really know anymore or less than most others or do they just say what they need to say to do and keep their jobs. I do not see any of them producing great works for humanity, they are mostly men of words; the same words spoken a million times and few times implemented.

RE: TO Tommi | 3:59 p.m. July 23, 2008

The pope is not a man called of God, I follow one prophet and the apostles with him. I follow President Thomas Monson, and the quorom of the twelve apostales. The pope, and any other religious leader in the world was not called of God but of men, and I know, like I said before, That President Monson is man of God, I follow what he says. This great man does produce great works for humanity all the time, I hear about them in news all of the time. The propet I follow is not a man of words, but a man of action. My church has always been a church of action

It's past Time | 4:54 p.m. July 23, 2008

I think it would be wel if there was be a public apology to the Fanchers people come from the millions of descendants of the MMM perpetrators.

George | 8:17 p.m. July 23, 2008

Re: To Tommi,

Your exclusivist, elitist, abhorant attitude is exactly why the world of religions hates the LDS. Your attitude is exactly why Mormon elitists felt they could do no wrong in Southern Utah, so they prayed before executing 120 men, women, and children.

I testify in the name of God that the Pope IS a man of God as well as a man CALLED of God. So are very many great religious leaders in the world today. How DARE you say what you said! YOU are the one who is NOT of God! YOUR ACTIONS DEMONSTRATE THAT!

Re: George | 8:37 p.m. July 23, 2008

You go boy! I was going to say it but you beat me to it. Catholics are meek but boy do we carry a big stick when it comes to the truth!

Frank K | 10:38 p.m. July 23, 2008

Wow wee! You guys are a angry bunch.
I think the MORMONS owe the Fancher people a personal apology, and the personal apologies should come from each perpetrator descendant. You Mormons owe this to these people big time. I too, agree that the Pope is a man of God for the Catholics. Many religions have men of God in there churches leadership...NOT JUST MORMONS!

GC | 10:15 a.m. July 25, 2008

Steven... We learn from past mistakes. While the holocaust was horific, many study it because we can learn from it, in hopes that it will never happen again. The same with MMM. Mormons should not hide from the past. And as individuals, we should not be apologetic for the MMM event (I personally did not take part in it, so why should I apologize?). The church leadership probably should, but that's for them to decide.

Daisy... A man can be a prophet and still be a man. Do you think the ancient prophets were perfect? Just because their fallacies were not written about in detail (like we see with the modern prophets) does not mean they did not have them.

Anonymous | 5:59 p.m. July 26, 2008

If a man claims to be speaking for God, but that man is a fallible human being, how are we supposed to know the difference between when he is speaking for God and when he is not?

Richard | 12:59 p.m. July 27, 2008

SLOW S..Julio is right about you, btw. Wiki can be edited by ANYONE who participates with it. I believe , personally, that over several million did die but the exact numbers will be lost forever because the Nazis did not care to keep a record of the numbers or names they put into the gas chambers and then incinerated. The sources that put it below a million are from different places, likely on the opposite spectrum of the political landscape you now find the Chosen People. If all I did was do a quick Wiki search and call my evidence definitive, I would be doing a great injustice to not only the Jewish people, humanity, and history itself. If you want to know where those resources are, go back to school. I heard them and read them directly from my college history textbook citing the far reaching different sources but did not read them directly, only saw them footnoted and cited in college history text. I may have it still somewhere in my house but after moving, most of us know how things do hget misplaced. Just trust me that there are sources that say differently than Wiki.

Richard re:Frank K | 1:03 p.m. July 27, 2008

We believe that man should be punished for his own sins and not Adam's transgressions.

Do you not believe this also? I am just wondering and asking. If your great grandpa killed someone, say a civilian in the south during the Civil War, if he was even in it, hypothetically speaking I guess, and that person was unarmed and even a woman or perhaps even defiled her (I am not trying to say anything like that has happened or that your great grandfather even COULD do such a thing) before killing her, should you and every generation after you need to continue to apologize to her children she may have had that possibly witnessed it from here to eternity?

It would certainly be a sore thing, indeed, but I doubt that would be expected of you. It seems that as humanity, when it is convenient to have a license to persecute, whether physically or verbally or even politically, we jump at the opportunity for that justification as well as the desire to hang on to anger. Bitterness is something I do not want to live with. It makes life a lot harder to live than it is already withsolittle optimism.

jennyz | 5:13 p.m. Sept. 18, 2008

Estamos atravesando el tiempo de nuestra existencia terrenal. Solo Dios conoce nuestros anhelos, sueï¿½os, miedos y debilidades, y a El daremos cuenta de nuestras acciones en la tierra. Ojala todas las personas podamos tener un espiritu de comprension y perdon para poder llegar limpios de nuevo a su presencia.

Anonymous | 8:01 a.m. July 3, 2009

How are you. Make a decision, even if it's wrong.
I am from Belgium and know bad English, tell me right I wrote the following sentence: "If you are a magician or a clown you can get higher priced bookings if you offer a flea circus walt noon."

:p Thanks in advance. Lilia.

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