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Calendar-maker ousted by LDS
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To Cheryl @9:21 | 12:03 a.m. July 16, 2008
I saw this calendar. The photos are neither suggestive nor provocative. I
think it was wrong however, for Hardy to use the LDS Church for commercial
purposes, then add insult to injury by seeking to tear down the
Church�s image.
In addition to the shirtless photos, there are photos of each RM in the missionary garb, along with a statement about their mission. Hardy sweetened an offer to attract interest in modeling by doing this calendar partly for philanthropic purposes. Each Missionary is allowed to pick a charity of his choice-- for the most part in the area he served a mission. Hardy boasted that �a portion� (no idea how much?) of the proceeds went to each of the 12 models� charity of choice...many of course, are located in poverty stricken areas.
Also, figure that these are all young single boys who Hardy then set up with internet "fan clubs." They're no doubt enjoying a lot of attention from the ladies, now. They all looked like TBM�s and truthfully, I don�t think any of them meant any harm to the Church. Hardy on the other hand, seems pretty calculating. He�s called press conferences, and expresses outrage/justification over his own choices.
In addition to the shirtless photos, there are photos of each RM in the missionary garb, along with a statement about their mission. Hardy sweetened an offer to attract interest in modeling by doing this calendar partly for philanthropic purposes. Each Missionary is allowed to pick a charity of his choice-- for the most part in the area he served a mission. Hardy boasted that �a portion� (no idea how much?) of the proceeds went to each of the 12 models� charity of choice...many of course, are located in poverty stricken areas.
Also, figure that these are all young single boys who Hardy then set up with internet "fan clubs." They're no doubt enjoying a lot of attention from the ladies, now. They all looked like TBM�s and truthfully, I don�t think any of them meant any harm to the Church. Hardy on the other hand, seems pretty calculating. He�s called press conferences, and expresses outrage/justification over his own choices.
To Lynn | 12:08 a.m. July 16, 2008
"You are so wrong! The Church is very loving, forgiving, and welcoming to
ex-Mormons who decide to come back. They are not destroyers of sinners. They
help them to come back...."
Thank you for confirming my statement with your own experience. Like I said, the LDS church only loves those that loves them.
It's a good thing that Christ acts so differently, since He loves those that hates and despises Him, that wants nothing to do with Him, and that even turned against Him and betrayed Him 3 times, which is of course, Peter.
So, you're right, the church is very loving, forgiving, and welcoming to ex-Mormons..WHO DECIDE TO COME BACK.
Thanks for confirming that so beautifully.
Now, my personal testimony of my experience and many others who are not in agreement of the LDS church, is that, for the rest of us, what we experience as definitely NOT COMING BACK Mormons, they've become the destroyers of sinners.
Heck, this Hardy guy's experience says it all.
Plain and simple.
Will you and the LDS church ever change your public facade of the real truth and event, or is that impossible?
Unfortunately, the evidence reveals that it's impossible.
Thank you for confirming my statement with your own experience. Like I said, the LDS church only loves those that loves them.
It's a good thing that Christ acts so differently, since He loves those that hates and despises Him, that wants nothing to do with Him, and that even turned against Him and betrayed Him 3 times, which is of course, Peter.
So, you're right, the church is very loving, forgiving, and welcoming to ex-Mormons..WHO DECIDE TO COME BACK.
Thanks for confirming that so beautifully.
Now, my personal testimony of my experience and many others who are not in agreement of the LDS church, is that, for the rest of us, what we experience as definitely NOT COMING BACK Mormons, they've become the destroyers of sinners.
Heck, this Hardy guy's experience says it all.
Plain and simple.
Will you and the LDS church ever change your public facade of the real truth and event, or is that impossible?
Unfortunately, the evidence reveals that it's impossible.
Comments continue below
Ex'd and single in Utah | 5:23 a.m. July 16, 2008
Mr. Hardy is lucky he does not live in Utah. I came to Utah with the Idea that I
could clean my slate. I knew full well that excommunication was in my future,
but what I did not know was how difficult it was going to be to date. The social
ostracizing was difficult at best. I�m back in the church
now but I still feel much frustration when I think about that time in my life
were I was a societal outcast. I pray that Mr. Hardy does not have to go through
what I had to go through. Mr. Hardy, the calendar was wrong. Make another
calendar just don�t use the churches image.
engineer | 6:46 a.m. July 16, 2008
And what about those 12 upstanding RMs who posed for the calendar??? Same
fate??? Doubt it!!!
John B Sheffield | 11:11 a.m. July 16, 2008
To Lynn,
Never did I say that The LDS Church is not Loving and Forgiving?? - so why I am wrong.
I just feel in some sections The Church can be far too judgemental or they are mislead.
It is not us here on earth who Judge and many will be judged on decisions made, I still say The Church has to still make much ground on the way it treated and still does in some ways African Americans, it is not just someone publishing a calendar which just shows 12 RM's as many have said nothing offensive, or the way those writers and scholars are treated who may question or ask debate on some of The Church beliefs and interpretations.
Many Church Members are my True Best Friends and Real Brothers and Sisters, all Beliefs may have problems and disagreements it is many will openly debate these openly.
Never did I say that The LDS Church is not Loving and Forgiving?? - so why I am wrong.
I just feel in some sections The Church can be far too judgemental or they are mislead.
It is not us here on earth who Judge and many will be judged on decisions made, I still say The Church has to still make much ground on the way it treated and still does in some ways African Americans, it is not just someone publishing a calendar which just shows 12 RM's as many have said nothing offensive, or the way those writers and scholars are treated who may question or ask debate on some of The Church beliefs and interpretations.
Many Church Members are my True Best Friends and Real Brothers and Sisters, all Beliefs may have problems and disagreements it is many will openly debate these openly.
John Lambert | 12:23 p.m. July 16, 2008
I think it was Chad's spirit of rebellion more than any specific action
that did him in. He had decided he was going to try to alter the course of the
church against the way the brethren were leading it. That constitutes apostasy
and is an offense for which someone can be excommunicated from the church.
Another Joe | 4:01 p.m. July 16, 2008
I find it enlightening that those who post here, having left the church talk
about the need to change the church. It reminds me of the old testament story
about those trying to steady the arc.
It is a terrible thing for a church leader to have to convene a disciplinary court to deal with someone who has let their life get out of control; worse still to have to deal with someone trying to remake the church in their own image. It is even worse trying to deal with someone who no longer cares about their membership; it gives one nightmares as to what went so wrong, what could have been done to rescue someone who is so lost. And yet each church leader must do his best to evaluate what would be in the best interest of the member as well as the church. Whether he is too harsh or too lenient, he still must stand before God and account for his actions.
Now, if you had committed grievous errors in your life, would you like to have them exposed in the name of "transparency?" To the critics, there are times that Christ stood silent before his accusers.
It is a terrible thing for a church leader to have to convene a disciplinary court to deal with someone who has let their life get out of control; worse still to have to deal with someone trying to remake the church in their own image. It is even worse trying to deal with someone who no longer cares about their membership; it gives one nightmares as to what went so wrong, what could have been done to rescue someone who is so lost. And yet each church leader must do his best to evaluate what would be in the best interest of the member as well as the church. Whether he is too harsh or too lenient, he still must stand before God and account for his actions.
Now, if you had committed grievous errors in your life, would you like to have them exposed in the name of "transparency?" To the critics, there are times that Christ stood silent before his accusers.
ramper | 4:33 p.m. July 16, 2008
Interesting thoughts Another Joe.
I came across a quote a long time ago that helps put some things in perspective. I wish I could give credit to who said this:
"I try to follow the leaders, not out of blind obedience or belief in their infallibility, but out of appreciation for the gravity of their responsibilities, and the organizational complexities and cross-pressures within which they work."
I came across a quote a long time ago that helps put some things in perspective. I wish I could give credit to who said this:
"I try to follow the leaders, not out of blind obedience or belief in their infallibility, but out of appreciation for the gravity of their responsibilities, and the organizational complexities and cross-pressures within which they work."
Seattle | 8:58 p.m. July 16, 2008
I am disappointed by the church's action. Showing missionaries are normal
teenagers and young adults before and after their mission's is not an
action worthy of excommunication.
These missionaries voluntered to pose in the calander. I suppose they promised not to do it again so that is why they were allowed to avoid heavy punishment.
It is too bad for everyone involved.
These missionaries voluntered to pose in the calander. I suppose they promised not to do it again so that is why they were allowed to avoid heavy punishment.
It is too bad for everyone involved.
Anonymous | 1:10 p.m. July 17, 2008
all of you are overreacting! give it a rest. i'm sure chad is a decent
human being so let him be. the missionaries weren't coerced or tricked
into this...all parties involved agreed to it...what is the big deal?
Worried about their reputation! | 8:18 p.m. July 17, 2008
The LDS church is so worried about keeping up their image it's pathetic.
They will go to great lengths even so much as to revoke one's eternal
salvation due to a silly calendar. The artcle states that this calendar could
be damaging to the Church's reputation. If the the LDS church is truly
God's 1 and only true church, then a silly calendar should not change the
truthfullness of the religion. They must be so carefull to distinguish
theirselves from the FLDS to make a good image. This is not what Jesus taught.
He did not worry about His reputaion or image. And for those who make mistakes
and sin He was NOT quick to judge. But the LDS church leaders think they have
the power to make damning judgements on it's members. Wow! I'd leave
the calendar thing up to God and let the guy be a fricken member.
Re: Worried about their... | 10:47 p.m. July 17, 2008
Clearly, you don't understand how Church disciplinary counsels work. If a
member WANTS to remain a member, unless they've committed a terribly
grievous sin, they are usually allowed to do so. Each article about this
mentioned that there were other issues going on, that this was NOT just about
the calendar. He very nearly left the Church on his own prior to the meeting,
and the only reason he went to the meeting was to satisfy his parents'
wishes. As sad as it is, this man didn't WANT to be a "fricken
member", that is probably the biggest reason why he was released to live as
he pleased without worry. Didn't you note his joy at being released? He was
thrilled not to be a member anymore. It's obviously not something he wanted
or believed in anymore.
bijinerie | 8:12 a.m. July 18, 2008
Modesty? Mormons trading on their membership in a wholesome Church even as they
are being viewed as sex objects? Hmm. Sounds kind of we need some similar
attention paid to Mormons in Miss America and Miss USA pageants.
"But it's about poise, and intelligence, and talent, and, . . . um, . . . the scholarships!"
No, I am afraid it's about bathing suits and cleavage.
"But it's about poise, and intelligence, and talent, and, . . . um, . . . the scholarships!"
No, I am afraid it's about bathing suits and cleavage.
you can go your own way! | 11:12 a.m. July 18, 2008
that's why we pray! i love mormons ...except for the one's who walk
around like they are already on the other side...i am minority and get some of
the strangest looks as no where else...then i went into a fancy restaurant not
knowing the history of the place till later..the matre di asked me "are you
here to fill out an application?" I looked around and told him know but my
money was as green as the anglos he didn't ask that question and I hold a
doctorate degree along with a very fine carreer but it is never good enough in
Zion so that is why one must be a Lion...funny how they can fly all over the
world on missions then come back and show their bigot sides very
quickly...bigots are born ..their made.
Michael | 11:13 a.m. July 18, 2008
Being that I have sat in a few of those hearing, the person is generally very
sorry for what they have done. However, we do not know what has gone on in the
hearing, nor should we, as a matter of privacy to the person and the
proceedings. I'm another person that is not born in the state, and I have
found people generally warm and friendly. I would know better than try and date
if the situation came up, but I know what I believe is true, and still follow
all of the commandments, so before I get "bashed" about being from out
of state, just remember this church is true, regardless whether or not you are
in Illinois, Iowa, Missouri, Idaho or Utah.
Needing To Be Hand Held | 11:35 a.m. July 18, 2008
Children are usually needing to be hand held, cuddled, and what not, which is a
beautiful, important and even essential thing to do, which benefits both parent
and child.
The LDS church is not any different with the way they parent society, which is to constantly act as if they are your parent.
But being a physical parent, there will be a time when the child grows up and separate themselves from the parent, to become independant individuals that can function in the big wide world. Therefore, as Dr. Phil would often say to his guests, that the responsibility of the parent is to raise the kid so he/she will be ready to conquer the world, so you teach them and help them to actually separate themselves from you as the parent.
To raise to the become dependant hurts them, such as the mother I know who's only son quit and went home from college after only 1 day away. I'm not kidding you.
The LDS church is like this mother. They don't want to let you go, and teach instead to become dependant of the church, to become scared to be on one's own, to not be free.
The LDS church is not any different with the way they parent society, which is to constantly act as if they are your parent.
But being a physical parent, there will be a time when the child grows up and separate themselves from the parent, to become independant individuals that can function in the big wide world. Therefore, as Dr. Phil would often say to his guests, that the responsibility of the parent is to raise the kid so he/she will be ready to conquer the world, so you teach them and help them to actually separate themselves from you as the parent.
To raise to the become dependant hurts them, such as the mother I know who's only son quit and went home from college after only 1 day away. I'm not kidding you.
The LDS church is like this mother. They don't want to let you go, and teach instead to become dependant of the church, to become scared to be on one's own, to not be free.
Free from Parasite | 11:44 a.m. July 18, 2008
Needing To Be Hand Held
You are exactly right, but the Church's case is a little different. Parents don't collect tithes and offerings from their children. Their desire to keep their children emotionally dependent upon themselves is itself an emotional thing. But the Church keeps people emotionally, intellectually, spiritually, and socially dependent upon the Church so that they can have an ongoing revenue stream! If you can imagine it, it is like a parasite that has attached itself to a body of believers and is regularly sucking blood from the body of believers. It continues to preach ideas that convince the body of believers that they NEED the parasite; that they cannot gain salvation or exaltation without the parasite; that they would be lost and damned if ever the parasite was detached. The parasite has a vested interest in making the body of believers ever more dependent so that it can continue to suck blood. That is where it is exploitative.
Nice insights. Good discussing with you.
You are exactly right, but the Church's case is a little different. Parents don't collect tithes and offerings from their children. Their desire to keep their children emotionally dependent upon themselves is itself an emotional thing. But the Church keeps people emotionally, intellectually, spiritually, and socially dependent upon the Church so that they can have an ongoing revenue stream! If you can imagine it, it is like a parasite that has attached itself to a body of believers and is regularly sucking blood from the body of believers. It continues to preach ideas that convince the body of believers that they NEED the parasite; that they cannot gain salvation or exaltation without the parasite; that they would be lost and damned if ever the parasite was detached. The parasite has a vested interest in making the body of believers ever more dependent so that it can continue to suck blood. That is where it is exploitative.
Nice insights. Good discussing with you.
No Biggy | 1:52 p.m. July 18, 2008
Clearly Chad Hardy is not interested in being a member of the Church. Like most
members of the Church, he was born into it and really had no choice in
"joining." I mean be serious, do you honestly think an 8 year old is
"choosing" to be baptized?! They just do what their parents and
everybody around them wants them to do. Later, when they get into high school
and college, they actually start to think about what they have been taught their
entire lives, and a lot of it just doesn't make any sense anymore. It
starts to become a tangled web of contradictory doctrines, myths, stories,
policies, and odd behaviors that are sometimes downright frightening (especially
when you go through the temple for the first time).
Chad had not been active for six years. He obviously got nothing out of attending church and being "active". He doesn't miss it one bit. That doesn't mean he is a bad person (as may of you will judge); it just means he is smart and knows what he wants, and he doesn't want to waste time with the kind of people who are in the Church. I agree with him.
Chad had not been active for six years. He obviously got nothing out of attending church and being "active". He doesn't miss it one bit. That doesn't mean he is a bad person (as may of you will judge); it just means he is smart and knows what he wants, and he doesn't want to waste time with the kind of people who are in the Church. I agree with him.
Needing To Be Hand Held 2 | 5:32 p.m. July 18, 2008
So, what has happened is that, the members of the Mormon church has been
cultivated from the inside out, to become dependant on everything that the
church says to them. The members don't know, and are too fearful to venture
into the world that they are not familiar with, which is to act and think as an
independant.
We know this is a fact, because the FLDS members who leaves the sect are lost, and even fearful to as they approach a world they never knew, in the physical environment sense, emotional, and especially, psychological.
Hence, the members have become like robots, executing decisions and actions based upon what the LDS church has programmed into them, so they actually have no choice but having the programs run the way we all know them to be.
We all know the term garbage in, garbage out, and if you program a computer to run MS Word, it's certainly not going to allow you to play Pac Man.
We've all tried for the Mormons to run its program that doesn't exist in their mind, and it's impossible, and we should not expect it to ever work in that way.
We know this is a fact, because the FLDS members who leaves the sect are lost, and even fearful to as they approach a world they never knew, in the physical environment sense, emotional, and especially, psychological.
Hence, the members have become like robots, executing decisions and actions based upon what the LDS church has programmed into them, so they actually have no choice but having the programs run the way we all know them to be.
We all know the term garbage in, garbage out, and if you program a computer to run MS Word, it's certainly not going to allow you to play Pac Man.
We've all tried for the Mormons to run its program that doesn't exist in their mind, and it's impossible, and we should not expect it to ever work in that way.
I think its about forgiveness? | 3:01 p.m. July 19, 2008
Let those among you who are without sin cast the first stone....
Madonna | 3:10 p.m. July 19, 2008
I find it interesting to compare how the Catholic church addressed various
issues with the pop singer Madonna and how the LDS church addresses
like/similiar issues with its members. If the "one church, the universal
church, the Catholic Church," can ignore Madonna, why can't the LDS
church employ the same tactic with this little blip on the radar screen of life?
really? | 3:10 p.m. July 19, 2008
I think Jesus would let one of his apostle got out and betray him and do
nothing.
Betrayal of Christ | 11:57 a.m. July 20, 2008
"I think Jesus would let one of his apostle got out and betray him and do
nothing."
Yep, and we know this from the man that helped crucify Him, to the revelation that there will be wolves in sheep's clothing at the latter-days.
Plus, the revelation that the very elect shall fall.
Yep, and we know this from the man that helped crucify Him, to the revelation that there will be wolves in sheep's clothing at the latter-days.
Plus, the revelation that the very elect shall fall.
BumbleBeeTuna | 11:59 a.m. July 21, 2008
Smart guy, he will capitalize big off this. Everyone making such a big deal
about this will make more people curious, should help his sales out quite a bit.
This guy definetly knew what he was doing and how this would blow over, you can
always count angry religious people ;) .... to help sell your calenders ;)
Richard | 12:07 p.m. July 23, 2008
Typical LDS reaction. Missionaries are sent out to convince themselves not
anyone else about what the church stands for. So, they can mislead their members
but a calendar is what they focus on.
Anonymous | 12:09 p.m. July 25, 2008
Sounds to me like the church is upset because they aren't getting their
10%...yeah I guess it really IS all about the money!
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