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Calendar-maker ousted by LDS
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30 pieces of silver. | 12:50 p.m. July 14, 2008
I really hope that it is worth it. I have to say I am sorry to Hardy's
parents, I know and understand their heartache and hope that they will move
forward and not let this get them down. I do think that maybe these young
elders who were active and had a testimony were in many ways just as spiritually
irresponsible, that does not mean that they should have lost their membership,
but they need to understand that they made a very poor and spiritually dangerous
mistake.
lawyer on lunch break | 12:51 p.m. July 14, 2008
Some comments on here incorrectly assume that the LDS Church could make a legal
claim against the calendar.
Church attorneys are not going to try this because:
a) the Church would have to sue the RM models as well, they are the ones actually wearing the missionary "uniform"
b) the court might rule that the Church does not in fact own the words and images it claims to own. Such a decision would become precedent, especially if decided in federal court, where all copyright suits are headed
c) Hardy could counterclaim damages for the public excommunication, so that internal Stake and Ward process could become public in discovery.
Hardy has outsmarted the Las Vegas LDS leadership, they even provided him with free advertising.
Church attorneys are not going to try this because:
a) the Church would have to sue the RM models as well, they are the ones actually wearing the missionary "uniform"
b) the court might rule that the Church does not in fact own the words and images it claims to own. Such a decision would become precedent, especially if decided in federal court, where all copyright suits are headed
c) Hardy could counterclaim damages for the public excommunication, so that internal Stake and Ward process could become public in discovery.
Hardy has outsmarted the Las Vegas LDS leadership, they even provided him with free advertising.
Comments continue below
BG | 12:48 p.m. July 14, 2008
TO: Lost in Utah and all the other one-track-mind commenters--
IT'S NOT ABOUT THE BLOODY CALENDAR!
The article clearly stated there were other issues at hand and the calendar was merely one of several items discussed.
NOW GET OVER IT!
Thank you.
IT'S NOT ABOUT THE BLOODY CALENDAR!
The article clearly stated there were other issues at hand and the calendar was merely one of several items discussed.
NOW GET OVER IT!
Thank you.
Fredd | 12:53 p.m. July 14, 2008
First, the church can ex anyone they want, this guy asked for it.
Second, How can it be free agency if you are punished for your actions? I'm talking on a philosophical level. If the church says you have free agency then they should not get involved with you for exercising it. Obviously you do not have "free agency" in the LDS church. Its a slogan used by Mormons who's lives are tightly controlled to make themselves look free.
Second, How can it be free agency if you are punished for your actions? I'm talking on a philosophical level. If the church says you have free agency then they should not get involved with you for exercising it. Obviously you do not have "free agency" in the LDS church. Its a slogan used by Mormons who's lives are tightly controlled to make themselves look free.
Dave in Midvale | 12:57 p.m. July 14, 2008
1. To all those who said "This is not news"
This was an Associated Press article. The Trib. or the Des. News is obliged to
run the article if it's about the LDS Church.
2. I will pretty much GUARANTEE you that there was more to the substance of
Mr. Hardy's excommunication than this calendar.
3. This reasons are really none of the readers business.
4. And lastly; to Amber who said: "Hope Chad releases a "Women on a
Mission" calendar. I will be first in line to send in my photos to be Miss
January. I wish the church would grow up and move into this century."
So, Amber, what would you do if the LDS Church "grew up and moved into
this century?" You'd gladly join a waffling organization with no bases what
so ever???
This was an Associated Press article. The Trib. or the Des. News is obliged to
run the article if it's about the LDS Church.
2. I will pretty much GUARANTEE you that there was more to the substance of
Mr. Hardy's excommunication than this calendar.
3. This reasons are really none of the readers business.
4. And lastly; to Amber who said: "Hope Chad releases a "Women on a
Mission" calendar. I will be first in line to send in my photos to be Miss
January. I wish the church would grow up and move into this century."
So, Amber, what would you do if the LDS Church "grew up and moved into
this century?" You'd gladly join a waffling organization with no bases what
so ever???
Grandma | 1:02 p.m. July 14, 2008
Years ago a General Authority friend of mine told me that the true measure of a
missionary is not what he does on his mission, but what he does afterwards.
Enough said.
Grandma | 1:03 p.m. July 14, 2008
Note to RWW 7:33 a.m.: Yes, we do have our "Free Agency," but what we
don't have is control over are the consequences of our behavior.
Anonymous | 1:07 p.m. July 14, 2008
This is not newsworthy
2 bits | 1:12 p.m. July 14, 2008
Why are the 157 comments on this trivial topic?
Are there really that many people who think popping-off on a topic like this is that important? Do we really think the actions of the calendar guy or the church are something we need to debate or argue about?
Are there really that many people who think popping-off on a topic like this is that important? Do we really think the actions of the calendar guy or the church are something we need to debate or argue about?
Alex | 1:11 p.m. July 14, 2008
Anonymous:
"This is not newsworthy "
Too bad Hardy and the AP made it so.
"This is not newsworthy "
Too bad Hardy and the AP made it so.
kenny | 1:11 p.m. July 14, 2008
This was a inactive member who never felt accpeted, thought he was ignored, did
not attend church so probably sought friends outside of the church who had more
influence on him to not live gospel standards,wanted to be noticed so did a
little drama.Came out in public,made money doing it,went for his 15 minutes of
fame,caught the attention of the church.If the church only slapped his hand then
think about who would try the next daring stunt and try and get away with it.The
media would be full of freedom of speech slurs against the church all in the
name of fun and profits.The church handled this right.Its too bad they probably
wont try and go back and help this brother.
It was a choice... | 1:15 p.m. July 14, 2008
Maybe some of you don't realize that this was a choice made by the
returning missionaries to do such a thing. Though they made that choice and it
was obviously the wrong one, they're not being punished for it? Why? They
are just as wrong as the photographer was taking them. If you're going to
look at someone who hasn't been a part of the church for so long and
justify his punishment for it, then shame on the LDS church. Those 12,13, or
however many returning missionaries are now 21-year old men who also made the
wrong decision.
There are worse things in life than topless men in a calendar. Who cares if he was in it for the money or otherwise, the punishment should go for those returning men who made their bad decision AS MEN.
Shame on the church and all you're influences. This only proves that this state isn't run by any form of government, but the church. It's sad.
There are worse things in life than topless men in a calendar. Who cares if he was in it for the money or otherwise, the punishment should go for those returning men who made their bad decision AS MEN.
Shame on the church and all you're influences. This only proves that this state isn't run by any form of government, but the church. It's sad.
Re "Fredd | 12:53 p.m." | 1:20 p.m. July 14, 2008
You said, "How can it be free agency if you are punished for your
actions"?
Having "Agency" doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and be assured there are no consequences (punishment) for your actions. That's a whole different philosophy. NOT the concept or Agency.
Having "Agency" doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and be assured there are no consequences (punishment) for your actions. That's a whole different philosophy. NOT the concept or Agency.
re;Lost in utah | 1:24 p.m. July 14, 2008
You are lost. Your application of scripture was meager at best. Your stereotypes
only allow you to survive your high opinion of yourself. Seriously, do you
really think this guy was kicked out because he printed a calendar? Really the
stewardess probably said when you landed, "Welcome to Utah, simpletons can
survive here. Just cling to your stereotypes, don't open your eyes, and
your arrogance will survive just fine."
Cleetorn | 1:25 p.m. July 14, 2008
The basic principles of this case is that Mr. Hardy did express his rights to
free agency. Even as with the laws of man, choices have certain consequences
attached, good or bad. This is not something that is unique to the LDS Church.
Had he recognized the folly of his ways, renounced the project and returned to
the fold, the Church Court would not have come to the conslusion that it did.
One can not jump off a cliff and then decide part way down that they want
something other than the inevitable outcome. Mr. Hardy willingly, freely chose
to jump. He landed exactly where he knew he would. One can only hope that the
wounds he is apparently stricken with will heal and he will take steps to return
to the Savior's loving embrace.
re: RWW | 1:48 p.m. July 14, 2008
There's no such thing as "Free Agency". We all have our agency
(will to choose), but we are not free to choose the consequences. They are
constant and unchangeable.
By the way, his website is titled "Mormons Exposed". That, in and of itself, should tell us volumes about Hardy. Since we are referred to as "Mormons" most of the time and what this has the potential of doing to the good name of the Church, if I were them, I'd sue him!
Keep in mind also, Hardy a number of years ago, had gone through the temple and was most likely a returned missionary himself. Six years ago something happened that caused him to turn away from the Church and his Lord. Because of where he's been and the covenants he made, he will never find true peace in his life unless he turns back and truly repents. Without his excommunication, he could not work his way back. I sincerely hope he eventually does. The Church had no other choice but to do what it did.
By the way, his website is titled "Mormons Exposed". That, in and of itself, should tell us volumes about Hardy. Since we are referred to as "Mormons" most of the time and what this has the potential of doing to the good name of the Church, if I were them, I'd sue him!
Keep in mind also, Hardy a number of years ago, had gone through the temple and was most likely a returned missionary himself. Six years ago something happened that caused him to turn away from the Church and his Lord. Because of where he's been and the covenants he made, he will never find true peace in his life unless he turns back and truly repents. Without his excommunication, he could not work his way back. I sincerely hope he eventually does. The Church had no other choice but to do what it did.
Reality Check | 1:49 p.m. July 14, 2008
It's pictures of 12 shirtless men. Get over it!
Where is all this outrage when a child molester gets out of serving any jail time? Where is the comments about getting what he deserved when a rapist is given a light sentence?
If this story had nothing to do with the LDS church, there would be 5 comments at most, but put the LDS church in the headline and EVERYONE has to put their two cents in.
I just find it interesting what the people of this state view as important enough to comment on and what they choose to ignore. I also find it quite telling when the people of this state choose to get more upset about 12 returned missionaries shirtless photos over the more important issues of the day.
It seems to me that you need to look at the things of importance and substance and react to those instead of complaining about such a trivial subject.
This calendar ISN'T going to chnge your world, but hte issues your ignoring will.
Where is all this outrage when a child molester gets out of serving any jail time? Where is the comments about getting what he deserved when a rapist is given a light sentence?
If this story had nothing to do with the LDS church, there would be 5 comments at most, but put the LDS church in the headline and EVERYONE has to put their two cents in.
I just find it interesting what the people of this state view as important enough to comment on and what they choose to ignore. I also find it quite telling when the people of this state choose to get more upset about 12 returned missionaries shirtless photos over the more important issues of the day.
It seems to me that you need to look at the things of importance and substance and react to those instead of complaining about such a trivial subject.
This calendar ISN'T going to chnge your world, but hte issues your ignoring will.
Alex | 1:54 p.m. July 14, 2008
The church has already been merciful to his public image by meeting with him
privately and not divulging the details of the disciplinary council. The whole
policy of keep the proceedings confidential is to allow a setting for
disclosure, confession, frank discussion, expressions of love, presentation of
exculpatory evidence, etc.
I can assure you that if the church were "mean spirited", it could spill the beans on this guy. It is interesting how some take advantage of the church's kindness on this matter. A person coming out of a council can claim they were excommunicated because they blinked wrong and be believed, because those on the council are not at liberty to discuss the details of the matter.
I can assure you that if the church were "mean spirited", it could spill the beans on this guy. It is interesting how some take advantage of the church's kindness on this matter. A person coming out of a council can claim they were excommunicated because they blinked wrong and be believed, because those on the council are not at liberty to discuss the details of the matter.
Lynette | 1:57 p.m. July 14, 2008
I have no desire to buy such a calendar. I married my Mormon Missionary Hunk. :)
John Lambert | 2:00 p.m. July 14, 2008
To KM,
I am not sure that you are right about what will and will not cause excommunication. The whole process is meant to be sensitive to the individual case, not a broad sweep. That is why the high council deliberats on the matter. That is why they actually hold hearings before excommunicating anyone. That is why the church never says that someone has brought automatic excommunication upon themselves.
I am not sure that you are right about what will and will not cause excommunication. The whole process is meant to be sensitive to the individual case, not a broad sweep. That is why the high council deliberats on the matter. That is why they actually hold hearings before excommunicating anyone. That is why the church never says that someone has brought automatic excommunication upon themselves.
John Lambert | 2:05 p.m. July 14, 2008
To ramper,
When did the Romney's become connected with hotels? Beyound this, you ignore the fact that Marriot is a publicly traded company and not controled by JWM Jr.
There are lots of things not fully explained, but I think some people do not understand the fact that when you break a covenant there are consequesces, and this guy clearly broke a covenant.
When did the Romney's become connected with hotels? Beyound this, you ignore the fact that Marriot is a publicly traded company and not controled by JWM Jr.
There are lots of things not fully explained, but I think some people do not understand the fact that when you break a covenant there are consequesces, and this guy clearly broke a covenant.
To: lawyer on lunch break | 2:11 p.m. July 14, 2008
Re your comment (c). This has no merit because this was not a 'public
excommunication'. The Las Vegas Church authorities did not contact the
media, and did not discuss details of the hearing and/or the results. They will
not disclose details of their deliberations or discussions, or publish a
transcript of the hearing. They only confirmed the result when contacted.
Mr. Hardy is the only one who contacted media, and discussed those issues he decided he wanted to. He may, or may not, decide to offer his official notice when it is received in about two weeks time. He is the only one who may, or may not, offer his own version of the hearing.
He said he decided not to resign his membership in the Church he no longer believed in, no longer attended, and had abandoned some of the covenants he had made; because he did not want to hurt his family. Instead, he opted for a hearing with a possible/probable outcome of excommunication, which was less painful or possibly embarrassing for his family??
It is obvious from his comments that the calendar was not the reason for the eventual decision of excommunication.
Mr. Hardy is the only one who contacted media, and discussed those issues he decided he wanted to. He may, or may not, decide to offer his official notice when it is received in about two weeks time. He is the only one who may, or may not, offer his own version of the hearing.
He said he decided not to resign his membership in the Church he no longer believed in, no longer attended, and had abandoned some of the covenants he had made; because he did not want to hurt his family. Instead, he opted for a hearing with a possible/probable outcome of excommunication, which was less painful or possibly embarrassing for his family??
It is obvious from his comments that the calendar was not the reason for the eventual decision of excommunication.
Anonymous | 2:21 p.m. July 14, 2008
How his earning have increased by ten percent. The church has given him
notoriety. He will sell millions. He has Sundays free.
Punish me!
Punish me!
Me | 2:22 p.m. July 14, 2008
I rejoice that he has been released from the bondage of Mormonism!!!! Thanks be
to God!!!
John Lambert | 2:24 p.m. July 14, 2008
It is obvious from the article what one of the covenants he broke was. What
other covenants he may have broken, I have no clue.
However if this was just about the calendar it would not have taken 45 minutes to deliberate.
Personally I am encoraged everytime the Church stands up against the moral relativism and value drift that is so widespread in this culture.
Also, the last thing we want is for missionaries to be treated as sex symbols. There are enough temptations throuwn at missionaries and too many missionaries who succumb to them without people going around proactively turning them into sex symbols.
However if this was just about the calendar it would not have taken 45 minutes to deliberate.
Personally I am encoraged everytime the Church stands up against the moral relativism and value drift that is so widespread in this culture.
Also, the last thing we want is for missionaries to be treated as sex symbols. There are enough temptations throuwn at missionaries and too many missionaries who succumb to them without people going around proactively turning them into sex symbols.
Anonymous | 2:28 p.m. July 14, 2008
I can only speak from the perspective of a person who was excommunicated and
rebaptized. People are responsible for the choices they make, good or bad. The
same standards that apply to one person in the church apply to everyone else.
The road back to rebaptism is difficult, but attainable.
Good luck!!!
The road back to rebaptism is difficult, but attainable.
Good luck!!!
Holier Than You | 2:30 p.m. July 14, 2008
This just made me laugh. Attention Mormons: lighten up!
Alex | 2:39 p.m. July 14, 2008
Anonymous:
"I can only speak from the perspective of a person who was excommunicated and rebaptized. "
It is good to have you back.
"I can only speak from the perspective of a person who was excommunicated and rebaptized. "
It is good to have you back.
John Lambert | 2:42 p.m. July 14, 2008
To lawyer on lunchbreak,
You can not sue a church for "public excommunication". This is a religious matter and the civil courts have no standing to pass judgement on the actions of religious bodies.
Secondly, this is not a public excommunication. It was done privately by the church and made public by Mr. Hardy.
You can not sue a church for "public excommunication". This is a religious matter and the civil courts have no standing to pass judgement on the actions of religious bodies.
Secondly, this is not a public excommunication. It was done privately by the church and made public by Mr. Hardy.
Grammar lesson | 2:43 p.m. July 14, 2008
OK, I'm done being judgmental about Mr. Hardy. Now on to something more
important...
Please note the mix of proper and improper use of the apostrophe in the quote below:
"It's guys with their shirt's off."
The first use ("it's") is a proper use in a contraction (it is).
The second use ("shirt's") is improper and is appearing more and more commonly in posted comments. PLEASE STOP THIS NOW.
A classic example of improper apostrophe use:
"Please clean the benches and stove's after use so everyone enjoy's our facility's"
Arghhh!
Please note the mix of proper and improper use of the apostrophe in the quote below:
"It's guys with their shirt's off."
The first use ("it's") is a proper use in a contraction (it is).
The second use ("shirt's") is improper and is appearing more and more commonly in posted comments. PLEASE STOP THIS NOW.
A classic example of improper apostrophe use:
"Please clean the benches and stove's after use so everyone enjoy's our facility's"
Arghhh!
LDSinMO | 2:52 p.m. July 14, 2008
My favorite bit is how so many people say, "Focus on the important issues
instead of this stupid calendar!" What are you doing? Aren't you
spending your time away from more important matters.
As for me, I wasted a good hour (or more) reading this *Because* of the terrible tragedies in the world. It's fun to read inanity from time to time. However, I truly hope mine is the last post. Let's move on people, nothing to see here!
As for me, I wasted a good hour (or more) reading this *Because* of the terrible tragedies in the world. It's fun to read inanity from time to time. However, I truly hope mine is the last post. Let's move on people, nothing to see here!
ECCM | 2:56 p.m. July 14, 2008
The fact of the matter is that ex-communication is a step in the repentance
process. Hardy seems very respectful of his stake president's decision,
which is actually not that uncommon. Kudos to the stake pres for keeping this a
private matter as much as possible and kudos to Hardy for respecting his family
and his heritage even though he chose to go a different way. Who knows? Maybe in
a few years he might find himself back in the LDS Church. (Also, not that
unusual, by the way.)
Re: Me | 2:59 p.m. July 14, 2008
I agree - He's free at last ....
Private | 3:02 p.m. July 14, 2008
Church membership and disciplinary councils are private matters and should be
kept private. The fact that Hardy and others have chosen to make it public
shows me that he has no respect for his membership, covenants or the church so
he probably shouldn't be a member. There is more to this story than he is
telling. The councils are councils of love and the action taken constitutes the
first step of repentance and eliminates futher self condemnation. Let a private
act be private and stop talking about it.
Read the fine print | 3:02 p.m. July 14, 2008
The biggest disapointment over this issue would be that Deseret Book won't
get the chance to cash in on this deal...
Come on people.. lighten up! It's just a calendar for "heck's" sake.
Come on people.. lighten up! It's just a calendar for "heck's" sake.
The church has not done this. | 3:09 p.m. July 14, 2008
People, the church never announces this kind of thing, maybe when it is a
General Authority, and that has been years ago. This guy is the one who put
this out in the media, not his local leaders. Like all apostates, they will
contact the media to get leverage with their agenda, his agenda was money. Oh
well, the year is half over, just hope that other RM's will not be stupid
and pose next year. But wait, I am a sister RM, I would pose, but I have to be
modest, don't know if he would have a interest in a fat old lady :)
maybe | 3:08 p.m. July 14, 2008
The Church will start publishing its own...There's gold in them hills!!!
now he can | 3:11 p.m. July 14, 2008
go to any church he wants...there's good and bad everywhere. this
ain't news by the way.
Jeremy | 3:19 p.m. July 14, 2008
Wow, I think it's great that this made national headlines. Everyone is
going to look at this and go. It's a guy with his shirt off on a calendar?
Why excommunicate him for that? The church has once again thrown a spotlight
on how they deal with certain issues. I guarantee that Mr. Hardy is not the one
who looks like a fool right now.
Lesson to be learned! | 3:21 p.m. July 14, 2008
This is a very hard decision for the brethren to make regarding this
individual.
We need to understand that this is not just any church! this is the Church of Jesus christ of Latterday saints, and anyone who serves in a church and who is in a position to make these decisions,do so with a eternal perspective in mind.
Members at times get caught in the hype of these nature but are always reminded by the spirit on what they should do, there is no different with this individual.
We need to understand that this is not just any church! this is the Church of Jesus christ of Latterday saints, and anyone who serves in a church and who is in a position to make these decisions,do so with a eternal perspective in mind.
Members at times get caught in the hype of these nature but are always reminded by the spirit on what they should do, there is no different with this individual.
@ Grammer Lesson | 3:30 p.m. July 14, 2008
It's okay, just calm down! It's only bad punctuation , nothing worth
getting worked up over my heck!! It's not the end of the world, and if it
is, there are plenty of people who'll give you the shirt's off their
back's. Really, it ain't worth getting so worked up over, it's
just the public education system at work.
so strange | 3:33 p.m. July 14, 2008
apparantly the little bit of money made by this guy is worth torchering his
family over ... how sad that he admits it will "kill" his family, I
have met many who have expressed their views without such comprise.....so
strange.
Alex | 3:35 p.m. July 14, 2008
Jeremy:
"The church has once again thrown a spotlight on how they deal with certain issues. I guarantee that Mr. Hardy is not the one who looks like a fool right now. "
The church had nothing to do with throwing the spotlight on the issue, and you know it. That said, if explaining how church discipline works after the fact makes us look like a fool, so be it. Hopefully, someone who is actually interested in facts and genuine member perspective will benefit. People like you think we are foolish anyway.
"The church has once again thrown a spotlight on how they deal with certain issues. I guarantee that Mr. Hardy is not the one who looks like a fool right now. "
The church had nothing to do with throwing the spotlight on the issue, and you know it. That said, if explaining how church discipline works after the fact makes us look like a fool, so be it. Hopefully, someone who is actually interested in facts and genuine member perspective will benefit. People like you think we are foolish anyway.
Charles | 3:37 p.m. July 14, 2008
It's sad to see so many uniformed members of the LDS church speaking as if
they actually know something. If you have never been involved in a church
disciplinary council, either as a priesthood leader or the participant, it would
behoove you to please refrain from wild speculation, written as knowledge.
This situation is nothing more than what is described in Lehi's dream. We have an individual who either tasted the fruit or was on his way and then was ashamed for some reason and followed those who went to the big and spacious building. We all know that they mocked those who held fast to the iron rod.
We can also see those on these pages who continue to do the mocking and ridiculing of those who are seeking to stay true to the word of God.
A testimony can be a fragile thing; something that must be worked on daily.
I hope that those who are LDS will reevaluate our own testimonies and where we stand today if called to die.
For those who are ridiculing, the prophets testified of your behavior and your doings. You are just fulfilling those prophesies with your actions.
Sad day in heaven.
This situation is nothing more than what is described in Lehi's dream. We have an individual who either tasted the fruit or was on his way and then was ashamed for some reason and followed those who went to the big and spacious building. We all know that they mocked those who held fast to the iron rod.
We can also see those on these pages who continue to do the mocking and ridiculing of those who are seeking to stay true to the word of God.
A testimony can be a fragile thing; something that must be worked on daily.
I hope that those who are LDS will reevaluate our own testimonies and where we stand today if called to die.
For those who are ridiculing, the prophets testified of your behavior and your doings. You are just fulfilling those prophesies with your actions.
Sad day in heaven.
Anonymous | 3:42 p.m. July 14, 2008
I believe there is more to the story then we know about. The church will never
tell why he was EX. Only he and those 15 men in the room know. It's a black
eye for the church. But I give Mr. Hardy credit for not having bad feelings
about the church and him membership. Just let it go.
Re: RWW | 3:46 p.m. July 14, 2008
There is agency. But there is not agency in our consequences. Everyone gets to
choose but no one gets to choose his/her consequences. Repentance doesn't
come without a punishment. Watch your thoughts, words and deeds or you must
perish! O remember and perish not!
Fredd | 4:07 p.m. July 14, 2008
You have to look at Free Agency" in context. if a church says you have
free agency then they are saying you are free to act as you wish. On the other
hand the church has defined sins such as stealing and murder. So if you steal
and murder you have committed a sin and should be punished for the sin. But the
church is punishing this guy for putting out a calendar and embarassing them.
Okay, there may be more to it, but without the calendar would this guy be facing
a council? So you have free agency, but if you don't toe the line and act
in a conformed manner the church will check you out and potentially ex you. So
you're a free agent, just don't anger the church?
Why so many comments? | 4:21 p.m. July 14, 2008
Why does any article with the letters "LDS" in the headline seem to
always spawn so many comments?
There are dozens of articles about REAL issues in the paper any given day, but an article about something contraversial the LDS church did will always get 4 times the comments any other article will.
If you're a member of the church, what does what outsiders think about the contraversy matter to you?
If you're not affiliated with the LDS church... why does anything they do seem to bother you so much?
Why are there always so many people who insist on telling the LDS church what they should do on every subject?
Especially interesting to me is... These same people tend to complain especially loudly and bitterly that the LDS take guidance from their leaders or their prophet (like that is bad)... Yet they think everyone in the LDS church should follow them?
So their saying, "It's bad to take advice from a prophet, you should disregard what the prophet says and follow a crack-pot anti-LDS opinion poster like them"? Are they for real?
There are dozens of articles about REAL issues in the paper any given day, but an article about something contraversial the LDS church did will always get 4 times the comments any other article will.
If you're a member of the church, what does what outsiders think about the contraversy matter to you?
If you're not affiliated with the LDS church... why does anything they do seem to bother you so much?
Why are there always so many people who insist on telling the LDS church what they should do on every subject?
Especially interesting to me is... These same people tend to complain especially loudly and bitterly that the LDS take guidance from their leaders or their prophet (like that is bad)... Yet they think everyone in the LDS church should follow them?
So their saying, "It's bad to take advice from a prophet, you should disregard what the prophet says and follow a crack-pot anti-LDS opinion poster like them"? Are they for real?
Oh Brother | 4:28 p.m. July 14, 2008
If we were taling about any other religion this wouldn't be a story!!!
Usually in the LDS church when one commits a MORAL sin and are being held accoutable they all say the same thing, "I didn't really fit in or I'm not sure if I really ever believed."
Bottom line is he wasn't excommunicated because of the pictures...and he and only he and those that were involved know the real reason.
It is easier to blame someone else then to take resposibilty for our actions.
As parents we try to teach our children right from wrong. When one of our children does something wrong we hand out a consequence. This is know different.
Usually in the LDS church when one commits a MORAL sin and are being held accoutable they all say the same thing, "I didn't really fit in or I'm not sure if I really ever believed."
Bottom line is he wasn't excommunicated because of the pictures...and he and only he and those that were involved know the real reason.
It is easier to blame someone else then to take resposibilty for our actions.
As parents we try to teach our children right from wrong. When one of our children does something wrong we hand out a consequence. This is know different.
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Absolution is possible however after the excommunication in the Catholic church should the person show repentance and a desire to regain his/her access to a state of grace. It is as complicated to get as it was to be excommunicated in the first place, with the excpetion of death bed confession/absolution. Should the person recover they would have a time period to go through proper channels for absolution.
Of course God works faster than either church as he's quick to anger and quick to forgive.
He wasn't active in the church so I can't imagine he cares one way or the other currently about his membership.