Deseret News | Reader comments: Applaud 5 Utah lawmakers for their courage

Reader comments
Applaud 5 Utah lawmakers for their courage

We'll see how committed you are | 12:09 a.m. July 14, 2008

There will be another ethics complaint filed in the next ten days. We'll see how committed to ethics Florez, Allen, Mascaro, the Tribune, and the News are when this one hits the fan.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, or are some animals more equal than others?

Or will you just blow it off as "retribution"? If you dismiss it as retribution, then you are saying those who strike first are immune to being charged with anything.

Is it OK to live in a glass house and cast stones as long as cast the first stone?

a bit to simplistic John | 7:08 a.m. July 14, 2008

Once again John Florez takes a simpleton's view - impugning certain elected leaders and setting up others as heroes.

It's okay for our elected officials to disagree with each other, and the merits of each position will be determined as this continues to unfold. It is not helpful to judge at the outset that one side is infallible, virtuous, etc. and the other is evil.

It contributes to the exact problem that John disdains in other columns - a citizenry that is disillusioned and fails to engage. I am sad to see John contributing to this familiar cycle.

Most likely, we will find that each side's views have merits and weaknesses. The truth will lie somewhere in the middle - some should have been more careful, some should have been more circumspect in what they have said, some should have resisted over-reacting and name calling, some should not have politicized this.

Too bad John felt like he needed to contribute to this unproductive dialogue. Let's let the situation unfold and then, after we have information from those entrusted with investigating it, determine if ethics probes are necessary.

Let's show more respect for ALL of our elected officials.

Thanks | 8:58 a.m. July 14, 2008

Thank you, John Florez, for stating the opinion of so many. Right on!

Comments continue below

John Florez should be commended | 9:09 a.m. July 14, 2008

John's comments are right on the mark. As a Republican, his perception is all the more valid and courageous. "A bit to (sic) simplistic" states he is taking sides but the only side John is taking is not a partisan side where one party is right and the other wrong, but where all parties should fight for open citizen engagement, transparent, ethical government. Those who oppose that side are wrong headed. Let's have an open government and a valid ethics hearing. As many often say in Utah, if you've got nothing to hide, there's should be nothing to worry about.

Kudos to John Florez for another insightful piece. Let's hope those who have ears to hear and eyes to see use them.

Dave Argyle | 9:43 a.m. July 14, 2008

May I add my endorsement of Mr. Florez's comments. I am really fed up with the behaviors of a whole lot of politicians. I am disgusted with the power-seeking, the rediculous partisianship, the influence games played outside of public view, the efforts to discredit opponents or eliminate honest competition and debate, the "do anything it takes to win" attitude, etc.

In my experience, these unsavory behaviors are alive and flourishing not only among elected officials, but more importantly in the party organizations that nominate and support them. The next generation of so-called "leaders" is currently being trained in these parties. We need the active participation of good, honest citizens of every persuasion to take control of the parties and demand that they clean their own houses. If we don't, we'll just keep getting more of the same.

rcskyr | 9:49 a.m. July 14, 2008

Oh heaven forbid that someone should have the integrity to want to have ethical government in the state of Utah. The comment by "we will see how committed you are", smacks of the same interest and integrity that the house and senate has for anyone exposing their one sided ways by being the majority party. It would be interesting to see just which legislator or senator wrote the above comment, just to protect the name of the Grand Old Party which has certain people that it wants to protect in order to protect themselves during the November elections.

Integrity in government | 10:18 a.m. July 14, 2008

Thank you, Mr. Florez, for your insights. Our legislature has become so corrupt -- they are just out-right purchased by pro-voucher groups, Envirocare (whoops! I meant "Energy Solutions") and others. They exist now merely to spend OUR tax dollars on their cronies or themselves. Look at the recent omnibus bill and its million-dollar giveaway to a Waterford Institute for computers for preschoolers. I'm sure we'll find that Waterford is owned by some (Republican) legislator or his buddy. How else can these (Republican) legislators make a living? They have no employable skills, and neither do their cronies. Greg Curtis, Greg Hughes, Curt Bramble and Steve Urquhart are the WORST offenders. They work for US - let's be sure we FIRE them in November. Let's take our power AND OOUR MONEY back!

Should be committed | 10:34 a.m. July 14, 2008

Doesn't matter if others characterize it as retribution, "We'll see how committed" just admitted that it is retribution with his goose/gander, stones/glass houses metaphors.

bill | 10:37 a.m. July 14, 2008

John you have no clue. Every time i read one of your columns i wonder what planet you live on. Tune into reality, this was nothing more thatn political gamesmanship. It is funny that if the accusers and attackers switched political philosophy you would be impugning conservatives for wielding to much power and going after a poor moderate.

Anonymous | 11:30 a.m. July 14, 2008

Sure took a lot of leadership to pile on an ethics charge after the primary election while the AG's office was already investigating the charges. With that type of leadership we would still be British outcasts.

This is all about political grandstanding.

Jud | 11:29 a.m. July 14, 2008

As a constituent of Sheryl Allen's, may I say she is one of the most responsive, mature, and effective legislators I've ever seen. I just hope the ax doesn't swing her way, which it is likely to do very soon. Sheryl, watch out. We are pulling for you!

Clueless | 11:44 a.m. July 14, 2008

According to Bill I guess I'm clueless too. In his reality the things Florez writes about are nothing more than political gamesmanship, and which are apparently no big deal to him.

Well, they are a big deal to me and a great many others. Can't we have representatives that spend their time honestly and openly serving the public instead of trying to secretly serve themselves through stupid political games?

Anonymous | 12:30 p.m. July 14, 2008

Jud: Allen is none of the things you mention, but she sure is effective a situational ethics and spinning the media to your advantage. I'm glad she's not my representative. I'd like some independence and moral certainty.

@Anonymous | 12:57 p.m. July 14, 2008

This is Jud. I know Sheryl, I've worked with her, followed her legislation for years. She is a poised, capable, mature representative--and she has proven time and again, and once more in the past few weeks--her independence and moral certainty. You have no standing to say these things, and certainly nothing to back them up(in your vaunted Anonymity.)

EdM | 1:01 p.m. July 14, 2008

Those of you who are ripping on John Florez for his column and accusing him of grandstanding and piling on: truly amazing. Mr. Walker had the opportunity to clear his good name and chose not to. I don't care who it is...if someone unfairly attacks your good name, ultimately that is all we have in this life and you have to get it cleared. Mr. Walker KNEW the truth would get out and he chose to resign rather than continue. Mr. Walker should have stayed, fought the complaint and cleared his name if he was truly innocent of the ethics charges. Thank you Mr. Florez. Thank you to the 5 legislators who chose to stand up to the Republican leadership on Capitol Hill. Let's bring back some civility and nonpartisan leadershipp to our state legislature.

MadMax | 1:51 p.m. July 14, 2008

I am acquainted with Mr. Ellis and he is a qaulity person with integrity. If he claimed there was a de facto bribe offered for him to withdraw from the election, I beieve him. What is wrong with proceeding with an ethics inquiry to get to the truth of the matter? If Mr. Walker is innocent, he has nothing to fear from an honest inquiry. His name will have a 'cloud' for a long time now. What about the health insurance he lost with his wife being pregnant? What would motivate someone to place themselves and family in that kind of a predicament? Ethisc in Utah politics is severely lacking!!! That is what happens when one party is so dominant for so long. It was a similar situation years ago when the Democrats dominated the scene. Only then all things political were more below the surface than today. I like a more transparent society where decisions affecting the populace at large is arrived at in open forums where all biases can be seen and under-the-table deals are less likely to happen. I beleive this is what Mr. Florez is discussing in his article. Utah needs more of that in politics.

Anonymous | 2:44 p.m. July 14, 2008

Let's see. Sheryl opposes expanding school choice and empowering parents to manage their children's education. She fought expanding open enrollment. She likes to spend and works against cutting excessive government spending. She's slick and believes the end justify the means. She assailed an individual as part of a witch hunt to get at a political nemesis. Of course, her employment is an enormous conflict of interest.

(Of course, Jud is not anonymous. Just call me Bob.)

Johnny | 3:17 p.m. July 14, 2008

Bob, you're still anonymous!

Take charge Utahns | 4:20 p.m. July 14, 2008

I am sick of this legislature! They are completely corrupt! If Greg Curtis opens his mouth you know one thing is happening, HE IS LYING!

If Curt Bramble is breathing, he is playing power games. Why are the underlying deamons he is dealign with that make him have to act out in these manners. It's as if he's trying to prove he's "the man".

Get rid of both of them!

and... | 4:35 p.m. July 14, 2008

let's get rid of Buttars and Waddoups while we're at it.

Ed Meyer | 5:31 p.m. July 14, 2008

While I agree with Mr. Flores; commendation for those legislators whose actions precipitated Mr. Walker's resignation, I do not feel the witch hunt needed to continue. Our legislative bodies at all levels spend too much time in non-productive hearings attacking fellow politicians and too little time meeting to address substantive public needs. Get back to work, ladies and gentlemen. There is much to be done and time is wasting.

Government Man. | 5:57 p.m. July 14, 2008

It is about time somebody stood up to these power hungry politicians. Curtis needs to be held accountable for his fear of open government. We need to shed light on all the ethics problems in our Legislature. It my opinion that politicians are like bananas, they are all yellow, crooked and hang together. It is time to throw out Curtis and his band of power hungry minions. Please vote for moderate Republicans and Democrats this fall. It is time to take back our State!!!

Interesting | 7:19 p.m. July 14, 2008

Greg Curtis has done a number of things to improve transparency during his time as Speaker. First and most important he has held open caucuses during his tenure. This has allowed the public and media to see the entire law making process.

Two years ago Speaker Curtis put all conflict of interest forms online.

Speaker gets blamed for a number of things but he has done far more than he gets credit for. Whatever, the Dems are not interested in representing the truth.

Ford Lover | 8:09 p.m. July 14, 2008

Interesting. If there is smoke we have to look for fire. Curtis has been involved in shady deals through out his career. Please look at his dealings during Guzzle Gate, West Jordan, and the deal with the government buildings in Logan. The GOP leadership does not believe in open accountable government. Curtis needs to go. It is time for the good people of Sandy and Cottonwood Heights to send him packing. Good government means having ethics and not taking Special Interest money. Goodbye Curtis and your buddies. Your time is near!!

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