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Mormon missionary calendar-maker facing discipline
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Scooter | 8:59 p.m. July 13, 2008
Stupid idea for a calendar and stupid idea for the returned missionaries who
participated. Anyone who's associated with members and especially returned
missionaries know that even the cleanest pool has a few floaties. I just hope
the Senior Missionary Calendar doesn't come out right after I've eaten
breakfast.
About free speech, it only applies to rights as a public citizen, not rights as an employee, member of a religion or any other "personal" affiliation.
About free speech, it only applies to rights as a public citizen, not rights as an employee, member of a religion or any other "personal" affiliation.
Robert | 9:09 p.m. July 13, 2008
Funny, as a missionary I went out to talk to people and I was met with quite a
bit of rudeness! No one wants to talk about it. Yet, when it comes to someone
who degrades what I hold sacred, and they want to plaster it all over the world,
it is offensive to me. People who have never respected the rules, won't
understand what it means to follow them. If he wants to betray his religion, he
has his right. However, how can you possibly believe that if you choose to stop
following principles you once professed, or promises you once made, that you
could do so without some reprocussions? God will not prevent him from
speaking...nor will the church force him to do anything. For example, he could
no more get out of a cell phone contract without temporal penalty, as he could
get out of a spiritual contract without spiritual penalty. Furthermore, why is
the worlds business, since the world knows nothing of spiritual matters? Why do
people find such joy in degrading my faith? I fail to see why so many revel in
degrading people of faith, no matter which faith it may be.
Comments continue below
Robert | 9:13 p.m. July 13, 2008
Mind Control=Liberal Democrats
Re: Uhhh .. | 9:17 p.m. July 13, 2008
And have those Catholic priests been shirtless? Have those nuns been wearing
bikinis? It's one thing to have a calendar of a fully clothed priest or
nun, or missionary for that matter. But to take something sacred to many people
and objectify it and use it specifically for purposes of arousal, is wrong.
That's what people are taking issue with.
Joke | 10:03 p.m. July 13, 2008
The above post is a joke, right?
Fight for Virtue | 10:26 p.m. July 13, 2008
In this day and age, this kind of stuff seems so grey.... This is where the
church separates itself from any other faith in regards to following the
Lord's council. The church will not change it's standards, even as
the Lord will not change his.
If people are more accepting of the gospel message because of these shirtless missionaries, then they are accepting them in all for the wrong reasons.
We need to take a stand for virtue and modesty. Continuos questionable behavior will lead to immoratlity.
If people are more accepting of the gospel message because of these shirtless missionaries, then they are accepting them in all for the wrong reasons.
We need to take a stand for virtue and modesty. Continuos questionable behavior will lead to immoratlity.
Juan | 10:47 p.m. July 13, 2008
Its really not that big a deal. grow up, I dont think they will formally kick
him out but if they do its rediculous
LDS Woman | 10:53 p.m. July 13, 2008
I feel sad for Mr. Hardy, he needed fellowship and unfortunately because of the
lack of his records not showing up at his local Ward, and he not making himself
known to his Bishop this was denied, most of the negative comments seem to be
from people who have bad feeling themselves to the church. As mentioned
several times this action that has taken place was from his Stake President in
Las Vegas, it has nothing to do with the Church in Utah, he will be treated in a
loving manner and with concern, I know that this would not have been leaked to
anyone in the Las Vegas area or here in Utah, it seems Bro. Hardy is looking for
attention whether negative or not lets hope he will get the help that he needs
to make his life happy and also to find his way back to Christ.
I want | 11:17 p.m. July 13, 2008
I want to see the womens missionary calender. I think it's time to do away
with big brother (church)
For a while there I was begaining to think I could not think according to them, heaven forbid I should think for myself or even consider it, what was I thinking? What do you think? What are they hiding?
Could it be true we can think, I'll have to think about it and get back to you, now let me think, now that I can think, I think.
For a while there I was begaining to think I could not think according to them, heaven forbid I should think for myself or even consider it, what was I thinking? What do you think? What are they hiding?
Could it be true we can think, I'll have to think about it and get back to you, now let me think, now that I can think, I think.
Removing My Name Permanently | 11:48 p.m. July 13, 2008
This is a wonderful case of a church that is freaked out to lose its image which
they have carefully cultivated for a very long time, to be a Disneyesque type of
family church that is clean and wholesome.
But just like Disney, beneath it all, the church is nothing more than a member builder for the purposes of collecting more money from their tithing, etc, and it's therefore, anytime someone risks their position in anyway, they're more apt to excommunicate in order to preserve their money.
It's all down to money, simeple as that.
Well, I'm glad to hear about this, more proof that the LDS church is not the God that I believe that is portrayed, and it's a good time for me to move on from my membership.
I've written my letter to please remove my membership records permanently, and expediently.
I've now to counsel with an attorney to make sure that the wordings of my letter is clear and precise about not having a remnant of my existence have any remains.
Thank you LDS church, and its people for letting me know your true colors.
I've wasted too much of my life being a member.
But just like Disney, beneath it all, the church is nothing more than a member builder for the purposes of collecting more money from their tithing, etc, and it's therefore, anytime someone risks their position in anyway, they're more apt to excommunicate in order to preserve their money.
It's all down to money, simeple as that.
Well, I'm glad to hear about this, more proof that the LDS church is not the God that I believe that is portrayed, and it's a good time for me to move on from my membership.
I've written my letter to please remove my membership records permanently, and expediently.
I've now to counsel with an attorney to make sure that the wordings of my letter is clear and precise about not having a remnant of my existence have any remains.
Thank you LDS church, and its people for letting me know your true colors.
I've wasted too much of my life being a member.
Utah Anti-depressants | 12:01 a.m. July 14, 2008
"a few thoughts": How else do you explain Utah leading the nation in
anti-depressant use if for no other reason than to keep up appearances.
Considering how many in the other forty-nine states handle their stress and problems - by drinking like fish, overeating, gambling, or smoking, snorting, shooting up drugs, things most LDS don't do - yeah, it makes sense. For one thing, no one's keeping track of how often you head down to the liquor store for another fifth of vodka or how many hours you spend in your local casino. Prescriptions for anti-depressants are documented by the state.
The Las Vegas stake high council in charge of this calendar case made the right decision.
Considering how many in the other forty-nine states handle their stress and problems - by drinking like fish, overeating, gambling, or smoking, snorting, shooting up drugs, things most LDS don't do - yeah, it makes sense. For one thing, no one's keeping track of how often you head down to the liquor store for another fifth of vodka or how many hours you spend in your local casino. Prescriptions for anti-depressants are documented by the state.
The Las Vegas stake high council in charge of this calendar case made the right decision.
Annie | 12:17 a.m. July 14, 2008
I'm not a Mormon but an evangelical Christian. While the calendar looks tame I think men shouldn't pose in suggestive or half naked b/c believe it or not women and gay men may look with lust upon those pics. It's weird and seriously - if you say this opens up dialogue with non-mormons it begs the question : can't you talk about your faith without resorting to sexuality?
Codys Ma | 5:40 a.m. July 14, 2008
Has any one stopped to think.....the reason why he was excommunicated is much
deeper than a silly calendar.....and has not been announced. And the real reason
for it is probably much deeper than the issue that you all are having a fit
about. People are rarely excommunicated for trival things. Sadly, whatever the
reason, this is what everyone is talking about, and probably has little to do
with why he is no longer a member of the church.
chituck | 6:55 a.m. July 14, 2008
As far as I know Christ never turned his back on any one. And wasent one of his
last words ( Forgive them father as they know not what they have done.)
Marie | 7:50 a.m. July 14, 2008
Simply posing as a model is one thing, but convincing models to disrobe as
members of a church is another thing entirely. It seems many equate this with
standard modeling, but standards models don't have their religious
affiliation plastered on the front of the catalog. It was also about Hardy
manipulating the Church for his own personal gain...as a catholic, I find that
unethical.
porn? | 8:24 a.m. July 14, 2008
showing a bare chested man is not porn!!!! why doesn't the church ex all
the men who are looking at porn. yeah i mean you - elders- that sit in your
closets and and have your little secrects. porn destroys families. this
calendar was done in good taste. Its ok for you young women to pararde in tight
fitting dresses at church and in public. so this business of seeing a mans
chest has gotten out of hand. why kick out of man if you feel he is not making
the grade. lets kick out the real sinners. you adulters and porn people. by
the way the porn problem is an epidemic in the lds church. and i dont see any of
my neighbors whom i know are porn addicts getting exd
Aaron Trulson | 10:29 a.m. July 14, 2008
I can't imagine that anyone who is in defense of this is truly converted to
the gospel of Jesus Christ.
How naive can you be to think the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints would stoop to the level of the world to gain PR?
How naive can you be to think the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints would stoop to the level of the world to gain PR?
Frank | 10:45 a.m. July 14, 2008
Christ didnt turn his back on anyone. He didnt pose shirtless either. But
thats the connection Hardy is making by using his representatives.
And the Church did not turn its back on him. It just forgave him of all responsability he had to the church and its tenants.
And the Church did not turn its back on him. It just forgave him of all responsability he had to the church and its tenants.
John Lambert | 3:37 p.m. July 14, 2008
To "this is ridiculous",
I think you are missing the fact that this is just what Hardy wants us to think the issue is about. I am sure that there are things that are not revealed.
I think you are missing the fact that this is just what Hardy wants us to think the issue is about. I am sure that there are things that are not revealed.
Invitation | 4:13 p.m. July 14, 2008
I invite all members of the LDS Church who have drifted away from activity to
return. We love you. We need you. We want you to be in our lives. Yes, there
may be steps you have to take to return to full activity, but we are here for
you. I am here for you. I will do all I can to assist you in returning. I
invite all people to come to the LDS Church. Partake of the great happiness and
wonderful blessings that await you here.
Now, please, let no one say they were not sought out and invited back. You are invited, even though you do not need an invitation. The Lord awaits you with open and loving arms and heart.
Now, please, let no one say they were not sought out and invited back. You are invited, even though you do not need an invitation. The Lord awaits you with open and loving arms and heart.
Gem | 11:07 p.m. July 14, 2008
You know...a lot is said about judging... but, there is nothing wrong with
judging an action.
I don't know the guy, personally, but I feel that his calendar was inappropriate.
I don't know the guy, personally, but I feel that his calendar was inappropriate.
Oh Well | 11:37 a.m. July 15, 2008
It will be a blessing in disguise for him to be excommunicated from the hate
filled, homophobic, "try and make everyone live the way I live or you are
evil" church. Sounds to me like this institution needs to lighten up a
little. Keep making those calenders buddy, we like them!!! Maybe the mormon
men are just scared because they were liking the calendars a little too much!
Geeeeez | 11:54 a.m. July 15, 2008
ALOT ABOUT NOTHING AGAIN....UTAH...no wonder you follow the president right down
the path of going nowhere..and if McCain wins , throw all the calenders away! It
won't matter.
It's all about religion | 12:24 p.m. July 15, 2008
The problem with this incident is that the calander was using the religion and
the noteriety of LDS missionaries as a selling point. No one would have bought
the calander if it was not sold and packaged using LDS missionaries. Calanders
like these are a dime a dozen so there should be no ambiguity about the message
this calander is sending that "these good mormon boys aren't so
good". Props to the righteous bretheren who by diciplining this young man
kept the integrity of the rest of us honorable RM's.
John Robertson | 5:11 p.m. July 15, 2008
The church never offers its side of the story on a disciplinary council, so one
only gets a one sided version of what is going on.
The church is led by the Savior and it is his will manifested through the Holy Ghost that guides its leaders.
The church is led by the Savior and it is his will manifested through the Holy Ghost that guides its leaders.
Everything Is Porn For LDS | 6:58 p.m. July 15, 2008
It's amazing how this LDS church has been so overprotective that they have
regarded shirtless men to be porn.
Well, I guess beaches in the entire country are hardcore porn, and even the community swimming pools are hardcore porn.
By the way, the Beijing Olympics, don't watch it, because there will be people who dives, rows, run, swim, and whatever else, and they'll be shirtless, and isn't it amazing the now the olympics allows porn, and on international TV!!
Shallow minded people, from made and taught by shallow minded religion.
Excommunication because of a calendar of shirtless men are so nothing to do with Christ, that if Christ were here, I know that He'll say, how come you haven't excommunicated the Marriotts with the real porns in their hotels.
Oh, this LDS church is so yucky, I am ashamed, embarrased, horrified, and feel like an idiot that I was once a part of it.
Well, I guess beaches in the entire country are hardcore porn, and even the community swimming pools are hardcore porn.
By the way, the Beijing Olympics, don't watch it, because there will be people who dives, rows, run, swim, and whatever else, and they'll be shirtless, and isn't it amazing the now the olympics allows porn, and on international TV!!
Shallow minded people, from made and taught by shallow minded religion.
Excommunication because of a calendar of shirtless men are so nothing to do with Christ, that if Christ were here, I know that He'll say, how come you haven't excommunicated the Marriotts with the real porns in their hotels.
Oh, this LDS church is so yucky, I am ashamed, embarrased, horrified, and feel like an idiot that I was once a part of it.
Vegas Ed | 8:42 p.m. July 15, 2008
I wasn't in the room, or were any of the other posters here. But I'm
sure the calender was only part of it. He went to the media before with the
letter, and to the media after telling what happened. For some weird reason, he
must enjoy this attention.
VegasJ | 9:20 a.m. July 16, 2008
Wow, the church never ceases to amaze me. Let's can this fella for a
calendar. Let's not do anything to 3 missionaries who deface a Catholic
alter/statue. Just goes to show why no one wants any part of that faith.
CatholicJoe | 9:59 a.m. July 16, 2008
This man made a calendar. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. In my
faith he wouldn't have been lashed out against. Mr. Hardy has been
released from an oppressive faith and his life will be much better for leaving
it. I wish this man nothing but the best in life. He will find a new path to
follow and he will be much happier.
who cares | 11:28 a.m. July 16, 2008
the creator knows and that's how it goes. but no everyone gots to step on
everyone's toes! Just follow your nose ...it really knows.
Scooter | 12:51 p.m. July 16, 2008
There are many significant unknowledgable comments here. This has nothing to do
with bare chests. It has nothing to do with modesty. It has everything to do
with an individual who is representing the Church and has no authorization to do
so. He has represented former church missionaries in a way that the Church
would not have their missionaries represented.
Missionaries | 2:00 p.m. July 16, 2008
Why didn't they punish those three missionaries that defaced a catholic
statue? Sending them home from their mission is not punishment people.
You're gonna tell me what they did isn't an excommunicable offense?
If you say that then you're obviously not a catholic fan.
SE Idaho | 2:31 p.m. July 16, 2008
Comments have been made about the missionaries who defaced the Colorado Catholic
shrine and the porn-related activities of the Marriott corporation.
Are there inconsistencies in LDS Church discipline?
Sure. That is what happens when you have the decisionmakers spread all over the globe and no appeals process to create some semblance of consistency.
I personally would have taken the missionaries, tied them to a tree & horsewhipped them in front of the media. But, I'm not their mission president. He probably had some rather interesting, tearful discussions with each elder and decided that was enough.
The Marriott corporation is a hard one. This is a corporation closely associated with the Church --- the Marriotts are significant givers to BYU and other causes. Many of the board members are LDS. And, the corporation is one of the most recognized in the U.S. with LDS ties. And, they are one of the biggest purveyors of porn in the U.S. through their in-house pay-per-view movie network.
What would be appropriate? Maybe stripping the Marriotts of their membership and burning their HQ. But, business decisions -- with many actors -- are hard to examine. I'd rather leave this one to God.
Are there inconsistencies in LDS Church discipline?
Sure. That is what happens when you have the decisionmakers spread all over the globe and no appeals process to create some semblance of consistency.
I personally would have taken the missionaries, tied them to a tree & horsewhipped them in front of the media. But, I'm not their mission president. He probably had some rather interesting, tearful discussions with each elder and decided that was enough.
The Marriott corporation is a hard one. This is a corporation closely associated with the Church --- the Marriotts are significant givers to BYU and other causes. Many of the board members are LDS. And, the corporation is one of the most recognized in the U.S. with LDS ties. And, they are one of the biggest purveyors of porn in the U.S. through their in-house pay-per-view movie network.
What would be appropriate? Maybe stripping the Marriotts of their membership and burning their HQ. But, business decisions -- with many actors -- are hard to examine. I'd rather leave this one to God.
Marriotts are an embarrassment | 2:45 p.m. July 16, 2008
I used to work for Marriott International in Bethesda. The company does many
things that would make true Mormons shudder, including peddling porn and liquor,
teaming up with Starbucks coffee, pursuing the homosexual agenda, and more.
But the Marriotts are super rich, they get away with anything. Chris Hardy isn't rich, so he had to be dragged in for ex-communication.
But the Marriotts are super rich, they get away with anything. Chris Hardy isn't rich, so he had to be dragged in for ex-communication.
SE Idaho | 4:30 p.m. July 16, 2008
In daily life, everyone makes compromises.
I think it is even harder for many Mormons. Consider:
* Steve Young playing and commenting on Sundays.
* Marie Osmond's less than modest costumes on "Dancing with the Stars"
* Donnie Osmond's chest & leg-baring outfit in "Joseph & the Technicolor Dreamcoat".
* Kirby Heybourne's Miller Light commercial
* Marriot's drive to develop a profitable mix for their franchises, involving alcohol, porn, etc.
* Mr. Hardy and his infamous calendar.
People like to recoil, claiming that they would never do such a thing.
The mistake we make is that we want to take our values, our beliefs and our judgments and hang them around the neck of others. Pretty human but, in the end, unproductive.
It is not the role of anyone to deride another. Each individual must decide what compromises are right for them and their situation.
We all must struggle to understand that our own individual sense of right and wrong is exactly that --- our own. We need to take deep breaths and let others live their lives. God will resolve each situation in his own due time. And, his judgment may be remarkably different than our own.
I think it is even harder for many Mormons. Consider:
* Steve Young playing and commenting on Sundays.
* Marie Osmond's less than modest costumes on "Dancing with the Stars"
* Donnie Osmond's chest & leg-baring outfit in "Joseph & the Technicolor Dreamcoat".
* Kirby Heybourne's Miller Light commercial
* Marriot's drive to develop a profitable mix for their franchises, involving alcohol, porn, etc.
* Mr. Hardy and his infamous calendar.
People like to recoil, claiming that they would never do such a thing.
The mistake we make is that we want to take our values, our beliefs and our judgments and hang them around the neck of others. Pretty human but, in the end, unproductive.
It is not the role of anyone to deride another. Each individual must decide what compromises are right for them and their situation.
We all must struggle to understand that our own individual sense of right and wrong is exactly that --- our own. We need to take deep breaths and let others live their lives. God will resolve each situation in his own due time. And, his judgment may be remarkably different than our own.
view from Australia | 9:27 p.m. July 16, 2008
No doubt the Church needed to do what it needed to do, but this story has made
us the laughingstock of Australia.
Here are some headlines:
"Mormons mortified by missionary positions"
"Mormons make missionary position clear"
I've seen the calendar's website and it strikes as just a bit of fun, not obscene at all. This situation was not handled right and will make it harder to reach young people.
Here are some headlines:
"Mormons mortified by missionary positions"
"Mormons make missionary position clear"
I've seen the calendar's website and it strikes as just a bit of fun, not obscene at all. This situation was not handled right and will make it harder to reach young people.
Re: view from Australia | 11:03 p.m. July 16, 2008
Who cares if people want to point and laugh? That's part and parcel of
being "a peculiar people", is it not? The Church, including its
various local Priesthood leaders, doesn't make decisions because
they'll be popular and respected, they make decisions because they're
trying to follow the will of the Lord.
Do you really think that RMs, posing shirtless side by side with pictures of them in their missionary gear, or reading the scriptures, is what the Lord had in mind when He told us to bare our testimonies?
Swimming, playing sports or doing yardwork without a shirt on is one thing. Posing for pictures specifically designed to arouse and titilate (whether you find it obscene or not), is quite another. And doing it in the name of the Lord is a further separate thing entirely.
Do you really think that RMs, posing shirtless side by side with pictures of them in their missionary gear, or reading the scriptures, is what the Lord had in mind when He told us to bare our testimonies?
Swimming, playing sports or doing yardwork without a shirt on is one thing. Posing for pictures specifically designed to arouse and titilate (whether you find it obscene or not), is quite another. And doing it in the name of the Lord is a further separate thing entirely.
Mikeylikesit | 11:20 p.m. July 18, 2008
Bottom line is the church is getting great publicity out of this....I think it
was a great move on their part to ex this guy. Look at all the discussion and
controversy it has created. Makes anti's more anti and it makes fanatics
more fanatic. So thanks to all those who have given me that warm yukky feeling
inside. SE Idaho please stop making so much sense :).
Abinadi | 9:20 p.m. July 20, 2008
All I can say is that the church as an organization is perfect. Unfortunately
us as members aren't and we make mistakes. People can say whatever they
want about the church but one thing is for sure, that it's true and
nothing, not even a calender featuring ex-missionaries shirtless will stop gods
work.
Wowed in Wisconsin | 6:01 p.m. July 21, 2008
I have been an lds member my whole life and for generations including ancesters
who settled southern utah. The calendar doesn't shame me or the church in
my opinion. Sure it rattles folks but really, what harm is it? Go to a beach
party the church puts on, take some pics and stick them on the net. What's
the dif?
KC | 10:37 p.m. July 21, 2008
What this issue has brought out in some others is, perhaps, more sad to me.
Mormons believe in becoming like God. I firmly believe that one must understand
humanness to understand godliness. We all take part of both racer and fan--to
run next to a racer with a clipboard of marks only slows him down, and
that's not God. We are His angels and it is our duty to learn to love
unconditionally as He does. Yes, this has become a very sensational matter, but
the standing of this man and the young men involved is private, between a select
few, him, and his deity. We should be thanking God our only duty is to
love--why does that seem to be such a hard thing for people in a concentrated
area of Mormon culture? Perhaps Les Miserables should become a standard text in
seminary classes. God is love, the Gospel is love, and we are His love. Be
careful not to get so caught up in law and fault-finding, that you forget your
own mission.
vicki | 1:45 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008
I love the gospel of Jesus Christ! Do the young men and the calendar maker?
Their actions speak volumes about where their hearts are at.
Anonymous | 12:33 a.m. Dec. 20, 2008
You people have this all out of sorts...
The point being...these young men have an example of Christ to honor. They were on a mission for two years of their life to do Gods work and be Christlike. There is a process here and a commitment. I am sure the Church frowns upon the dishonor here and nothing more. You talk about rights and freedom. These men have there rights, we call it "Free Agency". It is between them and their Creator as to what they do with it. I get tired of my religion being bashed for every little thing. Oh well, I am happy we are of such interest to so many. Religion is a personal property...I think we need to worry about something more important like whats all going to happen to us here in this life. Realize we are all in it together and just do the best we can. Doesn't anyone see any good in anything? Lets look at the grand scheme of things here. No matter what anyone says, thinks are does, someone has to remark about it...
are we that bored??? Geeez.
No one has to buy the calendar!
The point being...these young men have an example of Christ to honor. They were on a mission for two years of their life to do Gods work and be Christlike. There is a process here and a commitment. I am sure the Church frowns upon the dishonor here and nothing more. You talk about rights and freedom. These men have there rights, we call it "Free Agency". It is between them and their Creator as to what they do with it. I get tired of my religion being bashed for every little thing. Oh well, I am happy we are of such interest to so many. Religion is a personal property...I think we need to worry about something more important like whats all going to happen to us here in this life. Realize we are all in it together and just do the best we can. Doesn't anyone see any good in anything? Lets look at the grand scheme of things here. No matter what anyone says, thinks are does, someone has to remark about it...
are we that bored??? Geeez.
No one has to buy the calendar!
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Associated Press
Chad Hardy, 31, creator of the "Men on a Mission" calendar featuring shirtless Mormon missionaries, is pictured at his home in Las Vegas on Thursday.
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Matt, thank you for what you brought to the Jazz. Your name will always be...
The real solution to unemployment is get government out of the freaking way....
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I am Anti Anti LDS. The missionary calendars don't bother me whatsoever. So what?