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Mormon missionary calendar-maker facing discipline
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To: James | 1:15 p.m. July 12, 2008
The point is not to have people listen to the missionaries' message because
they are handsome looking indiviudals, but to listen to what they offer to teach
because it is from God.
That is the reason the LDS church is convening the disciplinary council. Church leaders know that anything that moves LDS missionary work away from that sacred purpose is damaging to the church, it's purpose and it's message.
I've participated in probably 6 or 7 of these councils and I can tell you with 100% confidence that if the guy who made the calendars honestly acknowledges he's made a mistake, he wouldn't even get disfellowshipped. The returned missionaries aren't nude or even in overly provocative poses. It's just that the calendar as a whole is not in 100% agreement or conformity with the message the missionaries teach.
He's been inactive for 6 years. Sadly, my guess is that money (from calendar sales) will win out over testimony, he'll be disciplined by the Church, he'll get angry and leave the Church.
Then, at some point in the future he'll be miserable and the Church will be glad to welcome him back if he repents.
The caravan moves on...
That is the reason the LDS church is convening the disciplinary council. Church leaders know that anything that moves LDS missionary work away from that sacred purpose is damaging to the church, it's purpose and it's message.
I've participated in probably 6 or 7 of these councils and I can tell you with 100% confidence that if the guy who made the calendars honestly acknowledges he's made a mistake, he wouldn't even get disfellowshipped. The returned missionaries aren't nude or even in overly provocative poses. It's just that the calendar as a whole is not in 100% agreement or conformity with the message the missionaries teach.
He's been inactive for 6 years. Sadly, my guess is that money (from calendar sales) will win out over testimony, he'll be disciplined by the Church, he'll get angry and leave the Church.
Then, at some point in the future he'll be miserable and the Church will be glad to welcome him back if he repents.
The caravan moves on...
Cranston Lamont | 1:23 p.m. July 12, 2008
As someone who has been aquainted with Chad Hardy . . . this whole business just
makes me want to laugh until my gums bleed.
Comments continue below
How is this about being gay? | 1:30 p.m. July 12, 2008
homophobia without limits,
"LDS fear of anything even remotely possibly gay is pathetic.
If shirtless calendars offend, you should consider moving to Iran, they share your values."
Whose said this calendar has anything to do with homosexuality? It seems to me that you are the one obsessed with this specific form of sexuality. As a liberal member of the Church I could care less about whose gay and whose not but this calender does make a mockery of missionaries and the Church.
What's next? A calendar of Elders kissing Sisters (or Elders) and being in poses with them? Where do you draw the line. Make your calenders, even your porn (gay or straight) and I don't have a problem. Use the Church and I do object and feel the Church should impose some penalties.
I suggest you come to terms with your own sexuality or lack thereof instead of assuming every single action relating to guys and the Church is about homosexuality. It's just as likely that women (or men) would find these Elders attractive but its not relevant since this isn't about who find who attractive instead it is about the image of the Church.
"LDS fear of anything even remotely possibly gay is pathetic.
If shirtless calendars offend, you should consider moving to Iran, they share your values."
Whose said this calendar has anything to do with homosexuality? It seems to me that you are the one obsessed with this specific form of sexuality. As a liberal member of the Church I could care less about whose gay and whose not but this calender does make a mockery of missionaries and the Church.
What's next? A calendar of Elders kissing Sisters (or Elders) and being in poses with them? Where do you draw the line. Make your calenders, even your porn (gay or straight) and I don't have a problem. Use the Church and I do object and feel the Church should impose some penalties.
I suggest you come to terms with your own sexuality or lack thereof instead of assuming every single action relating to guys and the Church is about homosexuality. It's just as likely that women (or men) would find these Elders attractive but its not relevant since this isn't about who find who attractive instead it is about the image of the Church.
Anonymous | 1:35 p.m. July 12, 2008
Ha Ha! i'm not surprised at all. We obviously have the rebellious among us
and soon or later they will apostasize from the Church. He is an endowed member
and for such immodest behavior like that should be excommunicated--period.
Anyone who desire to live in celestial kingdom must abide by the celestial
law--no kidding.
Thomas | 1:35 p.m. July 12, 2008
It's ok for the church to exploit young men. But, don't any of you
members try to do it!
Bryan the RM | 1:49 p.m. July 12, 2008
I am an RM and would never have even considered posing for this calendar.
I don't know if Mr. Hardy will be disciplined but I think that having the Elder's court is totally appropriate because I have been on a website for this calendar and looked at the type of conversations that were coming up and the first picture. Current and returned nissionaries should be bringing people to Christ - not helping start discussions on web sites with provactive or sexual undertones.
Even my own 9-year old daughter knew it was wrong and was bothered without even seeing the picture. Kids are usually more in tune than adults about things like that.
I hope Mr Hardy can come back into full fellowship by repenting and fixing his problem. I am not intersted in seeing the church change its standards and missionary efforts in an effort to appease him or those who want the church to "loosen up." Those who don't really want to be in the church don't have to be and the church isn't required to retain those who would try to lead its members astray from it's core values.
I don't know if Mr. Hardy will be disciplined but I think that having the Elder's court is totally appropriate because I have been on a website for this calendar and looked at the type of conversations that were coming up and the first picture. Current and returned nissionaries should be bringing people to Christ - not helping start discussions on web sites with provactive or sexual undertones.
Even my own 9-year old daughter knew it was wrong and was bothered without even seeing the picture. Kids are usually more in tune than adults about things like that.
I hope Mr Hardy can come back into full fellowship by repenting and fixing his problem. I am not intersted in seeing the church change its standards and missionary efforts in an effort to appease him or those who want the church to "loosen up." Those who don't really want to be in the church don't have to be and the church isn't required to retain those who would try to lead its members astray from it's core values.
Bob | 1:47 p.m. July 12, 2008
The Church's reaction to Mr. Hardy is so predictable. The Church's
response to any issue can be predicted accurately based on two principles:
1. Church leaders' primary motivation is to control its membership to the greatest extent possible. This means disciplining those who get out of line.
2. Church leaders are fundamentally conservative, meaning resistant to change. "Maintain the status quo" is the prevailing motto.
The Church's conservative, membership-control posture results in the leaders making decisions according to what is most likely to keep the people in line, while changing things as little as possible. That is why it is not surprising that much of the best of what science and culture has to offer is overlooked, ignored, or attacked by the Church. In that regard, the Church is little more than a set of brakes that slow down, but do not prevent, the absorption of progressive trends within the Church. Church leaders have historically been not only behind the progress curve, they often actively fight it! Opposition to same-sex marriage makes the point, but we see the same thing in racial attitudes, dress styles, family size, birth-control, mothers working outside the home, and a host of other movements.
1. Church leaders' primary motivation is to control its membership to the greatest extent possible. This means disciplining those who get out of line.
2. Church leaders are fundamentally conservative, meaning resistant to change. "Maintain the status quo" is the prevailing motto.
The Church's conservative, membership-control posture results in the leaders making decisions according to what is most likely to keep the people in line, while changing things as little as possible. That is why it is not surprising that much of the best of what science and culture has to offer is overlooked, ignored, or attacked by the Church. In that regard, the Church is little more than a set of brakes that slow down, but do not prevent, the absorption of progressive trends within the Church. Church leaders have historically been not only behind the progress curve, they often actively fight it! Opposition to same-sex marriage makes the point, but we see the same thing in racial attitudes, dress styles, family size, birth-control, mothers working outside the home, and a host of other movements.
2 bits | 2:26 p.m. July 12, 2008
157 comments already! And on a Saturday!
Guess this is a super-important topic.
Guess this is a super-important topic.
Jayson | 2:31 p.m. July 12, 2008
The funny thing is there is absolutely nothing to be defended here. The Church
has rules and they have the right to deny membership to those who choose to not
follow the covenants they have made. If anything this sets the LDS church apart
from others since they are not just turning a blind eye to the actions of their
members for the sake of making everyone happy.
Jesus didn't go around telling people that what they were doing was okay even though he had taught otherwise. He told them to repent and sin no more. Then again he also established a church and sent the apostles out to teach the gospel, not whatever version of the gospel was most likely to make converts wherever they happened to be establishing the church.
Jesus didn't go around telling people that what they were doing was okay even though he had taught otherwise. He told them to repent and sin no more. Then again he also established a church and sent the apostles out to teach the gospel, not whatever version of the gospel was most likely to make converts wherever they happened to be establishing the church.
Re: Thomas | 2:32 p.m. July 12, 2008
Thomas,
"It's ok for the church to exploit young men. But, don't any of you members try to do it!"
The Church doesn't take pictures of shirtless young men in suggestive poses. That is exploitation! Serving in the Church, public office or at the local Red Cross is not exploitation but if the Red Cross, government or Church took pictures of half-unclothed young men in suggestive poses for monetary profit it is exploitation. If you don't know the difference between exploitation and people serving or working your ethical compass is screwed up.
"It's ok for the church to exploit young men. But, don't any of you members try to do it!"
The Church doesn't take pictures of shirtless young men in suggestive poses. That is exploitation! Serving in the Church, public office or at the local Red Cross is not exploitation but if the Red Cross, government or Church took pictures of half-unclothed young men in suggestive poses for monetary profit it is exploitation. If you don't know the difference between exploitation and people serving or working your ethical compass is screwed up.
To Anonymous @ 1:35 | 2:34 p.m. July 12, 2008
If living in the Celestial kingdom means having to deal with the smugness and
judgmental attitudes of you and your compatriots, count me out. I think a lower
kingdom will do quite nicely with folks that are just a bit more genuine.
Brother Hardy, it will be a pleasure to see you there. Thanks to all of you that
continually reinforce my correct decision to not be part of your silly club.
Local Leaders | 2:39 p.m. July 12, 2008
It's the Local Leaders who will act in this case.
That is GENERALLY the case. I've only read page 1
of the comments so far, but based on the "tone"
there, it looks like many have the notion that the top leaders of the Church are in this picture.
It is the local area leaders, because they know the individual(s). 13 Million members is too many for the First Presidency and Council of 12 to know well enough to do the Church Disciplinary procedures.
Jesus loves us all, and if one truely REPENTS, forgiveness is eventually given by both the Lord and the Church.
Hope all those involved with this are prayerful and
respectful in this matter.
The line between humor and poor taste is sometimes
a very thin line, but it's kind of like the legal
definition of porn: "One knows it when one sees it".
PS: My name is David (Dave for short) and there's shure a lot of people posting on this site using MY
name making quite crazy comments. I guess that's the price of having a fairly common first name.
That is GENERALLY the case. I've only read page 1
of the comments so far, but based on the "tone"
there, it looks like many have the notion that the top leaders of the Church are in this picture.
It is the local area leaders, because they know the individual(s). 13 Million members is too many for the First Presidency and Council of 12 to know well enough to do the Church Disciplinary procedures.
Jesus loves us all, and if one truely REPENTS, forgiveness is eventually given by both the Lord and the Church.
Hope all those involved with this are prayerful and
respectful in this matter.
The line between humor and poor taste is sometimes
a very thin line, but it's kind of like the legal
definition of porn: "One knows it when one sees it".
PS: My name is David (Dave for short) and there's shure a lot of people posting on this site using MY
name making quite crazy comments. I guess that's the price of having a fairly common first name.
Are Jay | 2:38 p.m. July 12, 2008
I am thankful for a Church that stands for something. It would not be worth
attending if it was something built on castors, to move about with every
contemporary trend. As long as the clock keeps ticking, there will be fools who
mock because they are innocently uninformed. Much worse, however, are the fools
who know full well what it is all about, but choose to reject it.
R Kammer | 2:44 p.m. July 12, 2008
It would be good to wait until all the facts are in before rendering an opinion
on Mr. Hardy, otherwise it's just another "us versus them"
conflict. Active Mormons defending the faith and critics being, as usual,
critical.
Confused | 2:50 p.m. July 12, 2008
Shouldn't the (models) be held accountable as well?
After all they have their free agency and it seem to me they made the choice to pose. It's not like this clown forced them, come on!, lets mete out disipline equally. Also my understanding is that these we RM's not Missionaries in service...right?
After all they have their free agency and it seem to me they made the choice to pose. It's not like this clown forced them, come on!, lets mete out disipline equally. Also my understanding is that these we RM's not Missionaries in service...right?
EZ | 2:51 p.m. July 12, 2008
why does he have to use RM's? I mean a shirtless guy is a shirtless guy. No
reason to exploit an organization. He's not a bad person and shouldn't
be punished so severely. One thing i have experienced with the church is that we
are taught to be forgiving. It's not understandable to go as far as
excommunication. But it was a dumb thought to have in the first place. He might
as well go find rabbis or priests to take their shirts off as well. This would
prove that he isn't deliberately trying to send a message.
Re: 54 Yr. Old Woman's Persp... | 2:53 p.m. July 12, 2008
AMEN! - I'm an LDS film graduate. The calendar is a deliberate act against
a very clear message that the church shares - a missionary is called to be a
representative of Jesus Christ. If your consensus of the issue isn't
clearly on the side that the calendar adulterates standards, then you need to
re-evaluate your own capacity to discern between good and bad. Anyone involved
with the calendar should be ex-communicated. They obviously don't
understand the basics of the covenants they made when they were baptized.
I'm not a pickle sucker and make no claim to be as perfect as Jesus (by a
long stretch) but I say absolutely that you're shameful to advocate any
prerogative that this group who made the calendar to do so. It's just
entirely sickening to me. thanks
tobiasrex | 3:00 p.m. July 12, 2008
I've read most of the comments on this silly issue. And that's just
it. I haven't laughed so much and so hard in years. Thanks for the
hardy-hars. Talk about a bunch of know-it-alls.
Cats | 3:07 p.m. July 12, 2008
I went in and looked at the Calendar. Even though it doesn't show any
serious nudity, it really does sexualize the missionaries and completely obscure
the real message. I don't know what these guys were thinking. It really
is tacky.
Chad's family must be mortified. For him to pretend he is doing it in order to help people in the various missions is laughable.
As I said before, he has sold his birthright for a mess of pottage.
Those of you who are occupants of the "large and spacious building" can continue to laugh and point.
It really is sad for Chad and all the rest of you.
Chad's family must be mortified. For him to pretend he is doing it in order to help people in the various missions is laughable.
As I said before, he has sold his birthright for a mess of pottage.
Those of you who are occupants of the "large and spacious building" can continue to laugh and point.
It really is sad for Chad and all the rest of you.
anom | 3:09 p.m. July 12, 2008
If he is being disciplined for taking or printing the calendar....then what
happened to those in the photos? Does anyone know?
Beyond Kidding | 3:12 p.m. July 12, 2008
I'm LDS. I could otherwise make light of this and use it as some kind of
joke, but it's beyond that. It's entirely crass. It's stuff
like this that leaves us the answer, 'no wonder we were attacked by
terrorists' - - - This is the epitome of what contributes to an image OF
THE ENTIRE COUNTRY AND NOT JUST A CHURCH that the minority in the U.S. OBVIOUSLY
COMMUNICATE IN HAVING A MAJOR PROBLEM WITH COMMUNICATING ANYTHING THAT THEY HOLD
TO BE SACRED. - Church aside, Latter-Day Saint, Muslim, Jew, or any other God
believing entity - this is a slap in YOUR FACE! - It's a deliberate,
sickly, stupid, gross, deplorable, evil, ignorant, discusting, emblem of what
has led struggling people on this planet in other nations who believe in God to
hate the United States of America. - We tout 'free speech', and we
take that liberty and deliberately use it against anything that the founding
fathers would've intended by making that a freedom. That freedom was
intended for tyrants, not to adulterate sanctity by loosing satanic vulgarities.
Chad Hardy should not only be ex-communicated, but sued for copyright
infringements using the church's name.
Adam McMillen | 3:13 p.m. July 12, 2008
He does have the right to "free speech" according to the U.S.
Constitution. If he wanted to go further than the calendar at issue and start
producing slimy pornagraphy, then his right to free speech is guaranteed by the
Constitution and most federal and state laws. However, the church has the
authority to discipline him with regards to his membership in the church.
In addition, if he wants to reverence his "heritage" then why is he producing something that is contrary to the wonderful LDS heritage I know about.
In addition, if he wants to reverence his "heritage" then why is he producing something that is contrary to the wonderful LDS heritage I know about.
Timothy | 3:14 p.m. July 12, 2008
The church should do a better job in picking its battles. This makes the church
look so bad. We are already battling so many image problems and then something
silly like this hits the fan. I am know starting to see why attendance is
bigging to waiver and how testimonies are lost. This is just plain silly and we
very rediculious in the eyes of our peers!
Anonymous | 3:17 p.m. July 12, 2008
Why would anyone want to buy a calendar like this anyways, I never understood
it. I'd rather look at the real deal, like my own boyfriend or husband.
What the fudge? | 3:18 p.m. July 12, 2008
First off, it's not his job to increase the PR of the church....that's
the church's job. Second, it's not a matter of shirts or no
shirts--it's a matter of intent. Would it be alright for returned sister
missionaries to pose in bikinis? Of course not...yet the argument is made that
you can see that stuff at the local pool. True...but again, it comes down to
intent, not the letter of the law. This guy overstepped his boundaries.
Anonymous | 3:31 p.m. July 12, 2008
This guy is 31 and he exploited gullable kids. He should be punished and the
Church has every right to be involved as we are Mr. Hardy's steward.
Steve | 3:37 p.m. July 12, 2008
Everyone take a big, deep breath.
Mr. Hardy is someone with a Mormon background who has moved away from the LDS church. He thought it would be fun to juxtapose former Mormon missionaries & eye candy. So he created his calendar.
Is it odd? Yeah. But, has anyone bother to read the calendar? Each former missionary is identified where they served, what they liked during the mission and what they have done since. Anyone who has the calendar knows that they are not currently missionaries. The photos are what you can see in the portfolio of any LDS model. Very similar to calendars that have been done for various BYU teams over the years.
The reaction of people is the oddest part. There isn't 10 people who think this is a product of the LDS church. No one who gets the calendar thinks they are current missionaries.
The dispute is because some folks think any conflict is cause for WWII.
Calm. Deep breaths.
Mr. Hardy may have other issues in his life that may warrant discipline. This silly calendar is not one of them.
Mr. Hardy is someone with a Mormon background who has moved away from the LDS church. He thought it would be fun to juxtapose former Mormon missionaries & eye candy. So he created his calendar.
Is it odd? Yeah. But, has anyone bother to read the calendar? Each former missionary is identified where they served, what they liked during the mission and what they have done since. Anyone who has the calendar knows that they are not currently missionaries. The photos are what you can see in the portfolio of any LDS model. Very similar to calendars that have been done for various BYU teams over the years.
The reaction of people is the oddest part. There isn't 10 people who think this is a product of the LDS church. No one who gets the calendar thinks they are current missionaries.
The dispute is because some folks think any conflict is cause for WWII.
Calm. Deep breaths.
Mr. Hardy may have other issues in his life that may warrant discipline. This silly calendar is not one of them.
We don't know the full story | 3:43 p.m. July 12, 2008
anom,
"If he is being disciplined for taking or printing the calendar....then what happened to those in the photos? Does anyone know?"
The young men in question haven't received any sort of disciplinary action as far as we know. Some may have received discipline and others may not have. Their individual circumstances may vary and we need to bear in mind that the Stake President, while refusing to comment on specifics, has made it clear there is more than just the calendar at issue.
I'm not so sure he would have been disciplined over the Calendar even though that's what he wants the press and others to believe. Unfortunately, the Church will not come out and tell the press or anyone else why he is receiving Church discipline because of confidentiality.
This leaves people guessing but I can assure most of you that if the only thing he did was print this calendar the Church would be likely to turn a blind eye. For example, it's possible one of the men in the calendar had a sexual relationship with Hardy then repented and he's being called in because of that or for some other reason.
Let's not jump to conclusions.
"If he is being disciplined for taking or printing the calendar....then what happened to those in the photos? Does anyone know?"
The young men in question haven't received any sort of disciplinary action as far as we know. Some may have received discipline and others may not have. Their individual circumstances may vary and we need to bear in mind that the Stake President, while refusing to comment on specifics, has made it clear there is more than just the calendar at issue.
I'm not so sure he would have been disciplined over the Calendar even though that's what he wants the press and others to believe. Unfortunately, the Church will not come out and tell the press or anyone else why he is receiving Church discipline because of confidentiality.
This leaves people guessing but I can assure most of you that if the only thing he did was print this calendar the Church would be likely to turn a blind eye. For example, it's possible one of the men in the calendar had a sexual relationship with Hardy then repented and he's being called in because of that or for some other reason.
Let's not jump to conclusions.
Anonymous @ 3:17 | 3:46 p.m. July 12, 2008
You have a boyfriend and a husband? You've come a long way baby!
kathyn | 3:47 p.m. July 12, 2008
After reading all of the comments, especially those who are acquainted with
Chad, makes me seriously doubt all of this hullabaloo is about the calendar
only. There has likely been a lot of things leading to this moment.
How sad that the world equates modesty with being prudish. Self respect has given way to self-promotion. At the very least I think Chad has shown very poor judgment. I fear that there is much more to the story, but we won't know about it unless Chad spills the beans himself. The church will keep everything confident.
How sad that the world equates modesty with being prudish. Self respect has given way to self-promotion. At the very least I think Chad has shown very poor judgment. I fear that there is much more to the story, but we won't know about it unless Chad spills the beans himself. The church will keep everything confident.
Q. George Cannon VI | 3:47 p.m. July 12, 2008
How much would this clever young man have to pay for the extraordinary publicity
that the LDS Church leadership provided for free?
Craig | 3:49 p.m. July 12, 2008
To: Anon 3:17
I bought one these boys are hot.
I bought one these boys are hot.
Worthwhile | 3:52 p.m. July 12, 2008
This has been interesting to read. Those that have hard feelings for the church
will wave the banner of mind control, those that are defenders of the faith are
screaming for excommunication. A few posts indicate they personally know Mr.
Hardy.
For those fighting the church, leave it alone. No one is forcing you to accept the doctrines or live the standards of the church. If you believe that the LDS are not Christian, show us by your words and actions how Christ would respond.
Those defenders, please, follow the doctrine of mercy. The purpose of disciplinary councils is to bring the soul back to Christ, not to kick out the people that are less perfect than the rest of us.
Both sides of the debate can be more Christ-like and tolerant of differing points of view. Stop the name calling and personal attacks. No one benefits.
I am sure someone from each side will have something negative to say about this post.
For those fighting the church, leave it alone. No one is forcing you to accept the doctrines or live the standards of the church. If you believe that the LDS are not Christian, show us by your words and actions how Christ would respond.
Those defenders, please, follow the doctrine of mercy. The purpose of disciplinary councils is to bring the soul back to Christ, not to kick out the people that are less perfect than the rest of us.
Both sides of the debate can be more Christ-like and tolerant of differing points of view. Stop the name calling and personal attacks. No one benefits.
I am sure someone from each side will have something negative to say about this post.
to steve | 3:51 p.m. July 12, 2008
I have to disagree with you that this is a silly issue and that no one thinks
this is representative of current missionaries. You aren't that
naive' are you, to think that this won't be used against the Church?
You'd be surprised what people will believe if it bolsters their prejudices
against the Church.
Silly Calendar | 3:52 p.m. July 12, 2008
The fact of the matter is that this calendar was meant to stir controversy and
sell copy. The church is right to bring him in for a disciplinary council. He
is using the image of the church and its missionaries (an image that has been
built with an extraordinary amount of hard work and sacrifice) to make money by
debasing that image. Those who are in this calendar are a bunch of tools... and
not in God's hands. His desire to remain in the church for heritage sake
is laughable. The heritage he claims to want is the same one he seeks to make a
mock of.
Calendar only part of the issue | 3:52 p.m. July 12, 2008
Timothy,
"The church should do a better job in picking its battles. This makes the church look so bad. We are already battling so many image problems and then something silly like this hits the fan."
Did the Stake President or another Church official say Hardy's being disciplined because of the 2009 Calendar? Hardy wants us to believe that this is about the Calendar but the Stake President said: "I prefer not to say anything else about it" but "there is more involved, and [we] will have our meeting."
"I am know starting to see why attendance is bigging to waiver and how testimonies are lost. This is just plain silly and we very rediculious in the eyes of our peers!"
Testimonies are lost because people choose to jump to unwarranted conclusions based on articles that are necessarily one-sided since the Church cannot respond with details so the only side of the story which is given to the press is that of the person receiving discipline.
What is silly about this? You fail to note that none of the men in the calendar have received discipline yet Hardy is and the Stake President indicates that something else is the issue.
"The church should do a better job in picking its battles. This makes the church look so bad. We are already battling so many image problems and then something silly like this hits the fan."
Did the Stake President or another Church official say Hardy's being disciplined because of the 2009 Calendar? Hardy wants us to believe that this is about the Calendar but the Stake President said: "I prefer not to say anything else about it" but "there is more involved, and [we] will have our meeting."
"I am know starting to see why attendance is bigging to waiver and how testimonies are lost. This is just plain silly and we very rediculious in the eyes of our peers!"
Testimonies are lost because people choose to jump to unwarranted conclusions based on articles that are necessarily one-sided since the Church cannot respond with details so the only side of the story which is given to the press is that of the person receiving discipline.
What is silly about this? You fail to note that none of the men in the calendar have received discipline yet Hardy is and the Stake President indicates that something else is the issue.
Dirk | 4:04 p.m. July 12, 2008
It's called "Priest-craft" ... and it's a sin.
Don't think for one second that this man did not know how wrong what he is doing is. He just chose the money over doing what is "Right".
His consequences are not something to be surprised about.
Don't think for one second that this man did not know how wrong what he is doing is. He just chose the money over doing what is "Right".
His consequences are not something to be surprised about.
kathyn | 4:06 p.m. July 12, 2008
I checked out the website and photos. While the words are nice, the photos are
clearly provocative and some of these young men (who looked so wonderful in
their missionary clothes) look like male prostitutes. I am sorry for them that
they bought into this mess.
Re: Steve | 4:07 p.m. July 12, 2008
I'm out of place to say whether or not Chad and the people who created the
calendar should be ex-communicated, but if I were, they would've been
ex-communicated already. Ex-communication is an act that benefits the
individual. God's justice is all encompassing of love. He lets those who
would otherwise not feel adequate in his presence to reside in a lesser degree
of glory. Jesus said again and again that there are degrees in heaven. He used
parables to illustrate these degrees. I think the comment about immorality in
general being a cause for the U.S. to be attacked is legitimate. What you do is
take a wealthy, spoiled people who not only profess that God does not exist, but
deliberately act against anything sacred, and you put that next to a poverty
stricken people who believe in God (although their understanding of God is
obviously erroneous in the sense that they think that killing of innocent masses
is justified) - I yet say - from a non-biased, U.S. Citizen standpoint, and not
a religious one - it's stuff like this that couldn't do more damage to
an already hurting international PR for our country as a whole.
Dirk | 4:07 p.m. July 12, 2008
Hey Steve,
It is wrong. It is a slap in the face of the Church.
It is a direct attempt to undermine the integrity of the Missionary Program, by defaming the moral character of the Missionaries and their very protected "Image"... Yes, it IS a BIG DEAL, and yes, it warrants discipline.
Downplaying it is just another way of accepting it as "OK". It is NOT "OK".
He should receive severe discipline.
It is wrong. It is a slap in the face of the Church.
It is a direct attempt to undermine the integrity of the Missionary Program, by defaming the moral character of the Missionaries and their very protected "Image"... Yes, it IS a BIG DEAL, and yes, it warrants discipline.
Downplaying it is just another way of accepting it as "OK". It is NOT "OK".
He should receive severe discipline.
Bob Andersen | 4:12 p.m. July 12, 2008
Anyone who accuses the church of "mind control" and other such drivel
are weak and shallow at minimum, and, if one could engage them in one to one
conversation, intellectual idiots.
hey now | 4:14 p.m. July 12, 2008
can we get a smaller teapot? this tempest is not making very large waves.
copyrights violated | 4:14 p.m. July 12, 2008
The Church name is on the nametags of the missionaries that is displayed on the
calendar, because that is in the pictures in the calendar (the "men on a
mission" website shows calendar pages, and they have small photos of the
same missionaries in the corner with their shirt, tie and NAMETAG on). It is
illegal to use company symbols to sell products without their consent. The
church has good grounds for a LAW SUIT. The way the church handles things is to
deal with it in the church first, and hopefully they won't have to sue him
if he stops. That is the rest of the story that was NOT reported by Deseret
News. I wish they had reported that part in the story, as it is an important
point.
We only have his word | 4:54 p.m. July 12, 2008
kathyn,
"After reading all of the comments, especially those who are acquainted with Chad, makes me seriously doubt all of this hullabaloo is about the calendar only. There has likely been a lot of things leading to this moment."
Of course its not just about the calendar since members of the Church have created far worst publications, videos and other forms of media and haven't received Church discipline because of it.
"At the very least I think Chad has shown very poor judgment. I fear that there is much more to the story, but we won't know about it unless Chad spills the beans himself. The church will keep everything confident."
Of course, the Stake President has already said there's more to it but that he wouldn't discuss the matter with the press. This means the only person whose going to receive attention is Hardy since the Church would rather accept bad publicity than violate the sacred nature of a Church Council. Hardy could flat out lie about what the reason was for the Council, what happened at the meeting, and the Church would still not say anything about the matter.
"After reading all of the comments, especially those who are acquainted with Chad, makes me seriously doubt all of this hullabaloo is about the calendar only. There has likely been a lot of things leading to this moment."
Of course its not just about the calendar since members of the Church have created far worst publications, videos and other forms of media and haven't received Church discipline because of it.
"At the very least I think Chad has shown very poor judgment. I fear that there is much more to the story, but we won't know about it unless Chad spills the beans himself. The church will keep everything confident."
Of course, the Stake President has already said there's more to it but that he wouldn't discuss the matter with the press. This means the only person whose going to receive attention is Hardy since the Church would rather accept bad publicity than violate the sacred nature of a Church Council. Hardy could flat out lie about what the reason was for the Council, what happened at the meeting, and the Church would still not say anything about the matter.
Cats | 5:01 p.m. July 12, 2008
To those who think that the Church is giving Chad Hardy publicity--think again.
The Church has not made this public. Chad Hardy Has. The Church never
discusses these matters and tries to keep them strictly confidential.
It is clear that there are other reasons for the Church Court.
This is a serious issue. Making light of sacred things such as missionary service and covenants is a serious matter. However, there are obviouisly other problems involved.
Clearly Chad saw an opportunity for his fifteen minutes of fame. In the long run, it will profit him nothing for what if a man gain the entire world and lose his own soul.
It's not too late, Chad. Please come back and allow yourself to be healed.
It is clear that there are other reasons for the Church Court.
This is a serious issue. Making light of sacred things such as missionary service and covenants is a serious matter. However, there are obviouisly other problems involved.
Clearly Chad saw an opportunity for his fifteen minutes of fame. In the long run, it will profit him nothing for what if a man gain the entire world and lose his own soul.
It's not too late, Chad. Please come back and allow yourself to be healed.
Chris | 5:06 p.m. July 12, 2008
So I don�t think I understand what all the fuss is about.
Both are in their rights. Mr. Hardy to publish his calendar and the church that
he uses to sell his product has the right to disassociate itself with Mr. Hardy.
Would this church not be condoning his actions by not doing something? If this
was a company and one of its employees had misused the company image or brand
would not the company be in its right to terminate the employee? By his own
admission Mr. Hardy does not associate himself with this church, why then should
the church be required to associate with him? They should both just go their
separate ways and worry about bigger problems.
Uncle George | 5:16 p.m. July 12, 2008
If I was a church leader, there are A LOT of you claiming to be devout LDS that
I certainly wouldn't want to come to the defense of the church. First the
church has to clean up this mess caused by Mr. Hardy's quest for publicity.
Then, they have to deal with the stupid things being said by members. Think
about what you are saying and don't be so quick to judge and put other
people down. I'm embarrassed for the church and you embarrass yourselves.
TO: Copyrights Violeted | 5:19 p.m. July 12, 2008
"Copyright violated" and "company" are two nicve terms used
here. I think it is very fitting and I am glad you brought us the rest of the
story. Now that doesn't sound much like religion but of course big
business. The mormon church is looking worse and worse for this one.
Mossback George | 5:35 p.m. July 12, 2008
Some of you with bitter comments about Mormons or Utah seem to be looking for a
reason to be offended. Go out and enjoy the summer and meet all the nice people
in both states.
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Associated Press
Chad Hardy, 31, creator of the "Men on a Mission" calendar featuring shirtless Mormon missionaries, is pictured at his home in Las Vegas on Thursday.
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He's openly mocking the church. He's not encouraging others to come unto the Lord by being sarcastic, disrespectful and flippant. If he had a testimony at all, he would have felt it was wrong long before he did it. The calendar is a blatant slap in the face to gospel principals and he should evaluate why he's a member of a church he doesn't share beliefs with.
This guy made a calendar that would sell to the multitudes in the "great and spacious building" where many Jack mormons and non-members point, laugh and mock the church and feel unfairly judged. When he's no longer a member, he should fit right in.
Interesting how he also leaked the letter to the press. Why? Sympathy? Because he's sorry and wants to make amends? Not likely...more like more mockery and to make more money.