Reader comments
Boy Scouts serving Utah, nation

Boys to busy playing Base Ball to help Elders even for pay.
Boys do not know how to work or do a job properly.
Some of these Boys are now Men with Children that will not be taught

The boys described by "Wrong" generally don't get involved in Scouts, and if they do they don't advance very far.

It is well known that Scouts that pursue the highest ranks in Scouting usually do very well in adult life, becoming leaders in all professions and serving with distinction in our military.

I have watched a number of young men become Eagle Scouts, and the transformation can be astounding.

I think it's time for the church to drop Boy Scouts and expand on the Duty to God program. I know it's a good program, but is not for everyone. In most wards that I've lived in the Boy Scout program has only created a divide between the young men. By the time boys are 14, most no longer care for Scouting yet they are not given much of a choice to do anything else. As a result, many don't attend Young Men's programs. It's time for a change to a program that will improve the lives of ALL young men.

Star Scout, the church is always open to new ideas. Why don't you submit your better program for review? Until then don't give up on a proven program but help those 14 and older young men understand the proven value of living by the Scout Oath, Law, Motto and Slogan instead of playing basketball and other games for youth activities to keep them coming.

To Star Scout:
If the wards would follow the program of using Varsity an Venturing they would find much better success with the boys. Both of those programs tailor the activities to the interests of the boys. Listen to Pres Dahlquist at the May Aaronic Priesthood Scouting broadcast.

Star Scout: I have been a scout leader for six years, and my experience has shown me that your valid observation is not a result of the program failing, but it is the leaders who don't carry out the program the way it is designed that is the problem.

I've seen too many scout leaders that work on merit badges every week in a classroom setting, rather than engaging in outdoor games and competitions, with the boys teaching the skills and planning/carrying out the program.

I've seen too many leaders ignore the Varsity and Venturing program, either in continuing to work on merit badges (which boys have lost interest in by that time), or with ad hoc activities like basketball every week.

If leaders will just follow the program the way it is designed, my experience is that the boys continue to thrive. When I was a varsity coach, I ran the program by the book, and a few months after I began serving, a parent of one of the young men told me that his son had totally lost interest in scouting, but that during the past few months, he was on fire about scouting.

The program works!

I too would like to see the Mormon Church drop the Boy Scout program. It's rife with inconsistent standards and abuse from the top down.

I am an active member of the LDS Church and I will NEVER let my son participate in scouting!

I'm not giving up on any programs, I would rather just have the Duty to God program (I love it) and drop Scouting. There is enough pressure on these boys these days without having to fulfill all the duties of Scouting. Even with the Varsity and Venturing programs, many boys just don't fit in. I'm not giving up on scouts, I'll support it, I'm just giving my point of view from what I see as a YM President and trying to fill the needs of every young man. I don't live in Utah and we have about 30 young men in our program with much diversity. By the time most young men are 16, they are working at jobs to save for missions and miss a lot of YM programming anyway. The path to Eagle is really driven by the parents in most cases.

There is nothing inconsistent with the principles of Scouting and the principles of the Aaronic Priesthood for LDS Scout programs. That's why the LDS Church adopted Scouting as the activity arm for the Aaronic Priesthood. Drop Scouting for the Duty To God Program? They go hand in hand. The Duty To God program has the same problems as the Scouting programs in Varsity and Venturing. The adult leaders aren't trained, don't know how to implement the program and won't take the time to learn. Bishops don't know either program nor do Stake Presidents.

The problem isn't the program--it's apathy among the leaders. Maybe that's why Star Scout was only a Star...

It seems to me that Scouting has just turned into a big business that seeks to profit at the expense of volunteers.

Every year our ward is asked to raise $1500+ for scouts even though we only have 2 scouts. This money is sent in to the Scouting office and we see virtually no benefit. We still have to pay for everything from uniforms, to books, to camps.

I think the Scouting Executives are overpaid and underperform. There is still a lot of good in the program, but it is going downhill pretty fast.

We are so traditionally attached to scouts, that is now practically synonymous with the Church itself, which is not correct.

Of course, we need to teach our men good values, but scouts is not the vehicle it once was, and won't deliver in the same ways it used to.

You have identified another problem with the way many leaders/parents see scouting--that getting the Eagle is the end, and not a means to an end. The BSA-designed program (which many local scout leaders do not follow) emphasizes that advancement is a method (one of many), not the goal. It is a method to increase character in young men/a way to recognize boys when they succeed.

Too many parents and leaders see the Eagle/advancement as the end-all and be-all of scouting. This is problematic for a few reasons. First, it leaves out so many boys that don't advance to an Eagle for whatever reason (lack of interest, lack of time, etc.) Second, it prolongs the boy scout program while ignoring the Varsity and Venturing programs, thus making scouting even less appealing. Finally, it causes rifts between parents , who feel they are failures if their boy doesn't become an Eagle, so put added pressure on the boy or do it for him, and their boys.

The scout program was designed to include everyone. Those who want to advance to the Eagle can, and those who can't or don't want to can still enjoy/benefit from the other methods of scouting.

I used to feel the same way as you until I began to run my program by the book, which includes going to regular scout training, (which is overseen by the paid scouting professionals), attending quarterly district camps (overseen by scout professionals, and which saved me a ton of prep time that I didn't have to do myself in planning a campout), attending organized summer camps (which have a ton of qualified teachers, equipment, and excellent facilities, much of which is subsidized by friends of scouting drives that you referenced). All of these resources are designed to teach scout leaders so they can unload themselves and focus on the boys. Hopefully your unit will take full advantage of all that your local council has to offer.

To Star Scout and Southern Utah Resident.....Both of you do not understand the Scouting Program and how it relates to the LDS Church. I have been active in scouting for over 35 years and I can tell you from experence that both the Duty to God program and scouting go hand in hand. I put togeather a 7 year calendar defining each requirement in the Duty to God Program and Scouting and plugged it into weekly activities for 7 years. I know from many hours of research that if you earn the Duty to God you also achieve most of the scout rank advancements as well as Varsity and Venture Awards. In the 7 year calander the first year, 11 year old, the scout will earn Tenderfoot Second Class and First Class. While a Deacon he will earn his Eagle and Duty to God as a Deacon. As a Teacher he will earn Varsity Awards and Duty to God as a Teacher. As a Venture he can achieve most of the Venture awards just by fulfilling the Duty to God requirements. Point is....if you are doing the Duty to God you are doing Scouting.

Todays world just might not be ready for Scouting anymore. "Do a good turn daily" and await an eventual lawsuit. Its a shame.

I still use knots and stuff I learned about nature in scouts just about every day.

First of all, I do understand the relationship between Scouting and the LDS Church, etc. I have no problem with it myself. But it can be detrimental to those boys who don't want to participate and who feel left out. Afterall, it is an individuals choice to participate in the program.

As for the personal comment on why I was only a Star Scout, that didn't bother me in the least. It was my choice and my parents didn't pressure me to be an Eagle. My father was a Star Scout and he was a very successful faculty member at an Ivy League school. My brother was a Star Scout, and I was too. I got my Ph.D. and now teach at a university, but when applying for jobs I was never been asked if I was a scout and what rank I achieved. My first two sons made it to Star and Life as well (see the pattern in my family?), but my wife has determined that our youngest son will make it to the rank of Eagle and has done much of the legwork herself. Anyway, it's just my opinion and I still support scouting.

For those who think the Church ought to abolish Scouting, I highly recommend you ask President Monson. President Monson has dedicated many years of his life dedicated to the ideals and principles of Scouting.
As for the annual Friends of Scouting drive - here are some things that you may overlook. First, someone mentioned uniforms- when you went to purchase them, a council employee probably assisted you in a building with lights and water. If you have ever been to a scout camp - how did the lodge, the staff and other facilities come in to being? FOS is a necessary program.
Scouting is by far one of the most rewarding experiences I had. And even better, my leaders took the time to match up Duty to God and Scouting requirements. Not only did I learn more about my role in the Church but also my role as a citizen and a member of society. If you want to see scouting change, become a trained leader.

To Life Time Scout... I agree with what you say, but as has been said in other posts, it is up to the leaders to make the program work. The problem in most wards (from my viewpoint) is that the leaders are "called", and don't necessarily want to be in that calling. Many are young students, without children. As you show, it takes a lot of time and efforts that many just can't afford to do these days.

I also agree that receiving an Eagle Rank is not the end all. Scouting teaches great principles, as does the Duty to God program. But why have both if they overlap so much?

I agree with Scouting for Profit to some degree as well. Scouting is expensive not only for the individual, but on ward budgets as well. We're limited to one fund raiser a year, and with 30 young men, we can't meet the needs to pay for scout camp. Yet the Stake pays for all the Young Women to go to Girl's Camp without them having to raise any funds (over $8,000 annually). Not complaining, just an interesting note.

It is a common misconception that the Eagle is the end all and be all of scouting. In reality, the opportunity to earn the Denali during the 14-15 years and the diverse opportunities of Quest, Trust and Ranger awards for 16-17 means continued work toward Eagle after 13 is essentially remedial work. No wonder they loose interest if the program seems juvenile to someone in high school.

Is your boy on track to be done with Eagle by 14 so he can fully enjoy these higher awards as his interests mature? Just look at the merit badges. 21 are required for Eagle. If he has earned a merit badge for each month since turning 12 he is on track for earning it on time. (Yes I know they can get a head start on that while 11.)

By the way, the Trust and Ranger programs coupled with Duty to God are great training for future missionaries and fathers.

Your latest comments are a case in point. Boys feel left out because advancement is the only method used by the scout troop, which is not the way the boy scout program is designed. If the scout troop would place as much focus on the other methods of scouting as it does on Advancement, the boys not interested in advancement wouldn't feel left out.

The fact that you didn't get your Eagle, yet have lived an extremely successful and productive life, demonstrates that getting the Eagle is just a method and not the end-all/be-all of the scout program. If you were in a scout troop that focused on the other methods of scouting (ideals, patrols, outdoors, personal growth, adult association, leadership development, uniform), then your character likely improved as a result, even though you didn't get the Eagle. I know so very many that have received these benefits of scouting without earning the Eagle.

My advice to you is to follow the prophet, who supports scouting, and just run each scouting program by the book (Boy Scout, Varsity and Venturing) and encourage your leaders to do the same. Just follow the program. It works!

To Star Scout.... I also agree with your viewpoint about called leaders. It does take a ton of effort. I know, I have 4 boys that are Eagle Scouts. That is why I put togeather the 7 year calendar to help leaders with the hard part, planning a program. Keep up the good work.