Deseret News | LDS get final OK on project

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LDS get final OK on project

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lost in DC | 12:39 p.m. July 3, 2008

to anonymous 12:04. Been to Rome, been to St. Paul's - it's a beautiful ediface. So is the SL Temple, which was built 110 years before the mall. I was saddened by the way St. Paul's has been turned into a tourist trap, I think it was originally intended as a place to worship the Savior.

lost in DC | 12:42 p.m. July 3, 2008

Did I say St Paul's in Rome? Sorry, that's London. I meant St. Peter's

rich | 12:43 p.m. July 3, 2008

Why all the mean post? I expected more out of "Religious" people.

People have the right to disagree, but a true religious people would not be so easily offended.
I doubt that the Late LDS prophet would post such hateful things and invite people that disagree to "Leave".

Comments continue below

Alex | 12:42 p.m. July 3, 2008

GK from England:

Don't worry. No tithing funds are being used. I hope you get a closer chapel soon. Cheers.

Weak Banks | 12:47 p.m. July 3, 2008

Does anybody if any regional banks are involved in this project? Zions and Key Bank are already in a world of hurt from soured construction loans.

one of your jobs | 12:56 p.m. July 3, 2008

Hi, boys!

So many comments on so many boards, day after day, all day long. What I want to know is what do you do for a living? I'd like to get a job like yours where I can surf the web all day or comment or blog all day. Are you guys independently wealthy? Work from your own businesses? Having a slow day at COB or your other places of employment?

Anyhow, good on ya for having discretionary time all day, everyday. Sure would like to get me some.

~ Marinda Finnes

Doug S | 1:03 p.m. July 3, 2008

"When has the church ever been denied anything IT wants?"

Oh, I dunno. How about when the City Council snookered it into paying twice for the Main Street Plaza?

Great Downtown SLC | 1:04 p.m. July 3, 2008

When this is finished Salt Lake City will have one of the best downtown areas in the country. This is going to be absolutely fabulous. The Church, whether you like it or not, only does things top rate.

I am excited to visit when it is finished.

Is this a notice of leaving? | 1:07 p.m. July 3, 2008

Terri -
Does this "moving towards independence from Babylon" mean Salt Lake City/Utah is Babylon and y'all are moving to Missouri? Since you're already there you should glean a tidy sum when your property values go up...kidding. But seriously, is this what you're intending to say? Interesting. I didn't think "the church" was planning to move back after all the commitment to buildings, schools, and such here in the land of hatus and honeybees.

jfblg | 1:16 p.m. July 3, 2008

I live in Arizona. Phoenix just spent well over $1 billion in improvement projects on the convention center, hotel, light rail, etc. with tax money. Cities all over the country would love to have a private entity spending $1.5 billion of their own money on a project. These complainers to your City Creek project are digusting. I hope to purchase one of the residential units there when they become available.

Those that complain that the LDS Church is so overbearing and they are suffering under its influence, we, who don't live in Utah have been suffering under a liberal, lesbian governor and her liberal ideas for several years. Give me the LDS influence anyday.

As for where does the LDS Church get the money to build such a project? All you have to do is look here to Arizona. Just one parcel of land that the Church owns, which was donated to them, is over 4200 acres in size. That parcel alone is worth close to $1 billion. So you whiners up thers, get a life or keep your mouths shut.

Anonymous | 1:21 p.m. July 3, 2008

For those posters suffering from Alzheimer's or who generally have an attention span shorter than the end of their nose-

President Hinckley announced the following on October 2, 2004 in his opening remarks for General Conference:

"We are now working on a major undertaking in Salt Lake City. It is imperative that we preserve the environment around Temple Square. This makes necessary a very large construction project. 'Tithing funds will not be used for this construction. The income from Church businesses, rents on the property, and other such sources make this possible.'"

Tithing funds are clearly not involved. :rolleyes:

Anonymous | 1:34 p.m. July 3, 2008

Whoever is complaining about the best thing to happen to SLC since the LDS temple, should just move to Tiajuana. Stop complaning just because your pastors sermon last week was on how to hate the mormons part 1000... which by the way was really christ like wasn't it.

Rooster roo | 1:43 p.m. July 3, 2008

Well for heck sakes! Where on earth did the Mormon church get so much money for such a big project? Can anyone tell me?

Did I here Anti on here? Is it Anti Mormon, or Mormon Anti nonmember, or Anti X Mormon? You people are confusing me.

It's just me again | 1:51 p.m. July 3, 2008

I'm a life-long member who lives on the East Coast. I'm tired of people accusing me of not being a member when I post here because my viewpoint is different from yours. I guess what I don't understand is how the church decides to use so much of its money to benefit only those in "the land of Zion." I pay my tithing faithfully and I don't question where it goes until something like this comes up. The church is SO wealthy that it's hard to believe that no tithing funds were used to create that wealth.

Serenity Now | 1:56 p.m. July 3, 2008

Thank you Raymond T Swenson for your comments at 11:59. I've been reading all the postings on this topic and it seemed the people were getting more and more stupid. Facts and perspective are an amazing thing to bring to a discussion.
The current issue of Business Week has an article about downtowns across the nation investing thousands of PUBLIC dollars into their downtowns and the challenges they are facing in the current economy with companies not wanting to invest in downtown developments. In SLC we have an organization (yes, a for profit arm of the LDS Church) investing 1.5 billion of PRIVATE dollars and people are gripping over it. It is simply amazing. The development is getting no special favors from the city, in fact, if any other organization was to invest 1.5 billion in to downtown the city would be bending over backwards to accommodate them instead the development is doing everything it can to accommodate the city as the article points out. It is crazy how logic gets thrown out the window when the LDS Church is involved in anything, and that goes for the lovers and the haters.

Doug S | 1:56 p.m. July 3, 2008

Rooster roo--

Google "compound interest".

arc | 2:04 p.m. July 3, 2008

If you build a building, and rent it out, you make money. Even if you own the land, and pay some developer build it and/or to rent or lease it out, you can make money. In many cases, the developer will put in some of their own money for the project.

If you take that money, and keep it to maintain properties around the church headquarters, you end up with this project, which isn't using tithing money.

How hard is this to understand?

To both Mormon and Anti-Mormon | 2:09 p.m. July 3, 2008

The Holy Bible
The Book of James
Chapter 3

5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

Stop fighting. Christ said "Love one another". It makes my heart hurt to see Children of God at war like this. We are BROTHERS AND SISTERS. I am not wearing rose-colored glasses. There is a way to love. Please...

fejj | 2:15 p.m. July 3, 2008

Well as per usual, anything the LDS church does gets second guessed and criticized with a plethora of false arguments. Something the critics miss is the assumption that the church has just sunk over a billion dollars (from its business making corporations and not its mainstream tithe funded ecclesiastical funding) into a non-recoverable sink hole. For crying out loud this is a property development venture designed to make a profit from the sale of apartments and an income stream from the rental income from retail premises. Mall owners the world over sink billions into real estate projects just like this to, surprise surprise, make a return on their investment. So how is this deal any different when a church uses funds it has made from other extensive business holdings (land, media etc) to make more money. Criticize us Mormons for being shrewd business people and we'll plead guilty but spare us the pap that precious tithes were wasted on a hole in the ground. If I were a private investor, I'd be happy to invest in a project with such clear demonstrable viability located on a high profile downtown site.

MY SLC | 2:18 p.m. July 3, 2008

"As for where does the LDS Church get the money to build such a project?"

Zions Securities Corporation (ZSC) is a subsidiary of Deseret Management Corporation (DMC). Is owned by the Corp of the First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints. They also own the Deseret new Publishing Company which puts out the Des news. And also Bonneville International Corporation Which owns KSL among other TV and radio stations.

They are a very large corp no questions.

They can afford the plaze. Trust me.

Carlos | 2:49 p.m. July 3, 2008

Somehow revitalizing a downtown area and putting a whole bunch of people to work so they can pay taxes to give free medical care to illegal aliens is not humanitarian? There is nothing so humanitarian as a private organization spending their own money on a huge project like this. The LDS are not complaining about doing it but many who will benefit surely are. What do you want from the church anyway? An admission that they spend their money on buildings to benefit a lot of people? OK, so they do? And they do it without any debt? The GOVERNMENT should be run this efficiently.

PAT | 3:03 p.m. July 3, 2008

I do not get to Salt Lake very often, but each time I am able to travel there I feel that it is like coming home. I am so looking forward to seeing the new buildings and green spaces.

rich | 3:09 p.m. July 3, 2008

I know that there are Anti Mormons, but a lot of Mormons here are Anti-all other religions.

Just read these posts.

I sure do wish that people practiced what they preach (on both sides of the spectrum)

Which Pocket Not Relevant | 3:12 p.m. July 3, 2008

Marinda,

The answer for me is financially independent.

The question here is not whether the funds come out of the tithing breast pocket or the "corporate earnings" back pocket.

The question is whether a charitable organization which enjoys favored tax status should be building a mall.

David | 3:14 p.m. July 3, 2008

The three- fold mission of the church is to proclaim the gospel, perfect the saints, and redeem the dead. One can love the church, live the gospel, and still ask a question. As an LDS man who has lived away from Salt Lake for the past 48 years, I'm still amazed at the exchanges I read between Utah mormons and non-mormons.

Ruben | 3:15 p.m. July 3, 2008

This is not a church charity, it is a big international corporation business deal, and it is a good deal for the church corporation; besides the profits to be gained they will increase their control over the area and the people. It is a wise investment in the future. It is not that other big business couldn't do a better job of rebuilding downtown salt lake it is just that the church has such a strong monoply in the utah market that no other interests dare compete.

Utah is Not a Happy Place | 3:18 p.m. July 3, 2008

Can there possibly be another state in our country where such bitter religious division exists? No way!

Generosity | 3:20 p.m. July 3, 2008

This $1.5 billion gift to Salt Lake City and its residents shows the continued generosity of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If ever there are any questions about how the Church uses profits from its successful business holdings, private contributions, and sacred funds, listen to the Presiding Bishop in the annual General Conference of the Church. You will hear a heartwarming accounting of the charity, humanitarian efforts, and donations of time, talents, and resources to benefit people all over the world. Regardless of religious affiliation, anyone who takes an honest look will see pure motives to bless the people of the world put into action.

Government and civic leaders around the world often consult with the Church to gain a better understainding of how the welfare and humanitarian programs were conceived and implemented. They recognize a world-class system when they see one! They also welcome, with appreciation, the many contributions the Church makes to benefit their people.

It seems to me that all of these efforts harmonize with the spirit of the gospel message taught by Jesus to "love thy neighbor".

Mary | 3:24 p.m. July 3, 2008

I was happy to hear that the goverment people and the LDS church people worked together to perserve the old ZCMI front and incorporate it into the new design. I recently visited London and was impressed with buildings from the 1800's sitting next to buildings a year or two old. It is nice to see a respect for beautiful things from the past be treated in a give and take way. High five to the commission and the LDS church.

Zakuska | 3:34 p.m. July 3, 2008

To: "Which Pocket Not Relevant?"

The entity who is paying the funds does not recieve tax exempt status... its a FOR PROPHET ENTITY and PAYS ITS TAXES. :rolleyes: Please go back to the first page and read the post about the company called PRI.

Anonymous | 3:36 p.m. July 3, 2008

Oops I had a Fruedian slip. That should be Profit.

Doug S | 3:36 p.m. July 3, 2008

Reuben, you and commenter Earnest Bass need to get together and straighten out your stories. You're claiming it's a money-making venture. He's claiming it's an irresponsible drain on the church's resources that will never pay for itself.

How about you two figure out which angle you want to pursue, and then come back here and we'll talk about it?

To Doug S | 4:59 p.m. July 3, 2008

The church has many giant successful business ventures, they are smart busness people, they are not known to make dumb business decisions; or are you aware of something different, so tell us. Maybe you know something that is not general public information.

Paul | 5:29 p.m. July 3, 2008

This will be wonderful for all

lin | 5:48 p.m. July 3, 2008

i wonder why lots people out there hate what LDS church's doing.i'm not the church's member,but i have a wonderful impression about MOrmon people,especially the missionaries.
when the church doing some project, sure it has culculated the profit they will gain in return.they could give it back to the needy when the time comes,so dont question about tithing.we must think about future.

Katie | 5:55 p.m. July 3, 2008

I heard they found the golden plates in all that digging. Any truth? I would be very interested if it is true. Let me know.

Re Lin | 6:09 p.m. July 3, 2008

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

John | 6:32 p.m. July 3, 2008

The fact that the church knows how to invest, is just galling to those of you who fill your gas tanks and grocery shop with credit cards and make minimum monthly payments, doesn't it.

The Church takes tithing money, invests it in a business venture, makes a profit, returns the tithing money, and the businesses become self sustaining. That is not misuse of tithing, that is brilliant business acumen. Its almost as if the Lord Himself is smiling on their efforts, and helping them along.

Sorry if it bothers you that they know how to handle money, and most people are clueless. If the government ran as efficiently as the LDS Church, what a wonderful country this would be, as opposed to the debt ridden, third world nation we have become.

Some people are just not happy, unless they are complaining about the LDS church. That is your problem, the church keeps moving right along, fulfilling its destiny.

To: John | 6:32 | 6:53 p.m. July 3, 2008

The church should not be in business. This is a deal done with the devil!

Jim | 7:07 p.m. July 3, 2008

Projection of power, this is a good thing! All you antis need to go away!

John Pack Lambert | 7:21 p.m. July 3, 2008

I would remind all who post her that Elder Ballard counseled us to not even in jest tell people who oppose those laws and policies that we support as church members to move elsewhere if they do not like them.
Personally I think this is wonderful what the church is doing. At least it is giving people jobs. Brigham Young would say he would pay people to dig ditches even if they were unneeded to keep people busy.
I live in the suburbs of Detroit. The LDS Church has just completed two top quality chaples in Detroit. I managed to take a walk by one of them today. It is the best building in its neighborhood and within just a few blocks of many burned down houses. It is a beacon of hope and hopefully will inspire people to fix up their houses and tear down the burned shells. However with two criminal investiagations going on against members of the city government residents of Detroit can not hope for help there, and with auto companies constantly cutting jobs things are not looking up for the city.

John Pack Lambert | 7:38 p.m. July 3, 2008

At least the church has not followed the path of some religious organizations here in metro-Detroit and abandoned its old temples. There is a building along Woodward in Detroit with "Temple Beth-El" inscribed in stone over the enterance as well as "This house shall be a house of prayer for all people", weeds growing amind the enterance steps and gang graffitti on the walls. It is going to be renovated by a baptist church, but that project has not started so right now it is an eyesore.
I wander how many of those who gripe about this project have ever been to welfare square?

John Pack Lambert | 7:41 p.m. July 3, 2008

To the 9:49 poster,
The church did not buy anything from the city for this project. It is redeveloping private malls.

For the obsessed | 7:52 p.m. July 3, 2008

There is medicine that can help you with your paranoia. Seriously.

PRI | 7:53 p.m. July 3, 2008

I was looking up Property Reserves Inc. and I found out that it is listed this way:

"Not for profit Organizations

Included in this list are foundations, churches, youth groups, interest groups, and other nonprofit organizations that are exempt from federal taxation under the IRS 501(c)3 ruling."

Paying taxes are they?

Mary Texas | 8:04 p.m. July 3, 2008

I am LDS from Texas. Born in Utah. I have never seen so much criping about a clean up downtown. As LDS, who are we to question The Church and their busness. I can tell you have no faith. As far as the anti you have no say. Thank you to those who are friends of the Church. To the LDS, get your act together

Alex | 8:15 p.m. July 3, 2008

To "To: John | 6:32":

"The church should not be in business. This is a deal done with the devil! "

Would you be willing to explain what you mean by that?

brejol | 8:27 p.m. July 3, 2008

Congratulations to the LDS church for getting approval to improve S.L. City. Some people do have an appreciation for beauty. Its the best long term way to fight poverty and will be enjoyed for decades.

In CA | 8:29 p.m. July 3, 2008

As I have followed this renovation in downtown SLC, I am amazed at how the leaders of the LDS church have the business smarts to pull this off, both from a design and financial point of view. This is not cheap short cut construction like some commercial development where a quick buck is the goal, but rather a long term investment. Kudos to the LDS church. And isn't it wonderful how they are the first to any world disaster with aide from their members. It is as if they have some sort of special guidance. Must be why they are the fastest growing church.

To: Mary Texas|8:04 | 8:31 p.m. July 3, 2008

Wow you stated the LDS perspective exaclty. The members are "not to question"; which by the way would equal what those outside the church would call a 'cult.' And non-members well you have just said they are irrelevent. No wonder people have a problem with your little religion!

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