Deseret News | LDS get final OK on project

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LDS get final OK on project

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Re: Is it just me? | 9:48 a.m. July 3, 2008

Yeah, itï¿½s just you. I pay and donï¿½t worry about it. Doesnï¿½t make sense to me that you make your contribution and then go around questioning how itï¿½s used and asking for an accounting. This isnï¿½t a fortune 500 investment. If it bothers you, quit paying. Even if the church used tithing money, I could care less. The principle of tithing (sacrifice) is what is important. If you believe in modern revelation, thereï¿½s no need to question. If you donï¿½t, then thereï¿½s no need to attend your ward.

LDS Takes From the People Again | 9:49 a.m. July 3, 2008

I don't know how so many of you Mormons are so glad that the LDS church again takes what belonged to the people of Salt Lake.

It's obvious that they don't just give out 1.5 billion just for the heck of it. Naturally, they become the owner, the caretaker, and the controller of the properties which they have spent their huge amounts of money in. It's not a free gift to the city, nor is it a free gift to the people. That's what Rocky was trying to protect, the interest of the people of the city, not transfering again and again land and properties that the church continues to take control.

So, the Mormons here are glad and happy, because it belongs to them, but greed, is one ingredient that will make this church fall, sooner or later.

Annie | 9:49 a.m. July 3, 2008

Thank you to all the people who choose to use sense and factual information to form their comments and opinions about the revitalization of downtown. Those of you who feel the need to comment about things you know nothing about: go check your facts and if your opinion is still valid, comment away and leave everyone else to their abilities to discern truth from fiction.

I think it's nice to protect a historic landmark and to make Salt Lake City a place we can enjoy and feel safe. With gas prices going up I think more people will want to move closer to work, etc and if I end up being among the crowd, I'd like to look at something nice while I'm there...

Thank you LDS church for doing something worthwhile with the money you have accrued by doing honest business. Too bad they can't save Sugarhouse as well...

Comments continue below

Sandy | 9:52 a.m. July 3, 2008

I've seen a couple of the names of posters here on anti-Mormon sites so I know they get their kicks by bashing the Church. No amount of logic will stop them. If you notice, their questions continue even after being thoroughly answered. No win when hate is involved.

sign of good times | 9:54 a.m. July 3, 2008

If I were LDS, I would take this development as a sign that "the end" is NOT near since I'm sure there was a lot of thought given to the longevity of the area to recoup costs and make a profit. So, yea! many more years ahead and plenty of time to enjoy life before worrying about "the end."

John | 9:57 a.m. July 3, 2008

The LDS Church ought to just leave SLC completely, and then you can all live in a slum and a burned out city. The ungrateful attitude shown by some of you is disgraceful.

All the improvements, at no cost to the taxpayer, and all you can do is moan? Grow up, and realize what downtown would be like without the help of the church and its improvements.

Where does the number $1.5 billion come from that keeps getting tossed around? The Church has many business interests that are self sustaining. The Church builds NOTHING using "credit cards" People could take a great lesson from that alone. Everything they own, they literally own outright. Sorry to disappoint all you who hate the church, but it is a remarkable business machine that knows how to take care of itself, and the people that it serves.

If you don't like it, life is tough. Start your own church, see if you can grow it and make it into what the saints have done in less than 200 years.

Re: to chuck and others | 9:58 a.m. July 3, 2008

Re: To chuck and others...

So were you happy with the downtown area before this project started honestly?? If you feel like you have a better idea, why don't you tell the rest of us that are happy that somebody is doing something for SLC without us having to pay for it. What would you do differently with the downtown?? That is a question to all of you who are lambasting the LDS church and this project. Lets hear your ideas on a better plan for the downtown area.

D. Michael Bass | 10:00 a.m. July 3, 2008

What's bad for Rocky and his anti-Mormon minions is good for the good people of Utah.

Fred | 10:01 a.m. July 3, 2008

The LDS Church runs businesses that are profitable. They run them well. They make money--lots of money.

The Church is using that money to make downtown Salt Lake a better place.

I think it is nice of the Church to do that. They could keep their money all to themselves, or use it elsewhere.

Judging from what the LDS Church is trying to do to improve their downtown community, and the response they get, I am amazed that they still do it. I guess they care enough to not worry about the naysayers.

To: LDS Takes From the People Ag | 10:07 a.m. July 3, 2008

The LDS Church is doing something that the city cannot do: saving downtown.
It was the "People" who allowed downtown to degenerate into the state it is now. It was the "People" who allowed the Gateway to be built at despite economic reports advising otherwise.
The LDS Church is now doing something no commercial enterprise would be willing to do in order to save downtown.
Wether you're LDS or not, you should be grateful that someone is willing to invest the money and resources necessary to keep downtown SLC from becoming obsolete and completely run down.

To John | 10:12 a.m. July 3, 2008

"Where does the number $1.5 billion come from that keeps getting tossed around? The Church has many business interests that are self sustaining."

Hey John, have you ever considered as to where the church got the money from to even start their businesses?

Do you remember that the church got out of near bankruptcy because of tithing?

Hmmmmm, this is a good time to think isn't it?

Unless you think that God wired the church money into their bank accounts!!!

wow | 10:12 a.m. July 3, 2008

The LDS Church has a for-profit investment portfolio (which pays taxes): that is where the money comes from. The mall should generate income to pay for itself - just like other malls do. The church needs income to provide charitble donations etc, they also have a legitimate interest in keeping the area around Temple Square vibrant.
The LDS Church is not "taking" any public land - they asked for a lease for the skybridge. Just like Trolley Square and Gateway (which does not mean it is a good idea - just that it is not some sinister plot)
Please check your facts before you go off on a mindless anti-Mormon tirade.

Tweeter Wangensteen | 10:17 a.m. July 3, 2008

My only regret about the project is that the BC&S Wax Emporium will not be permitted to operate in the area. What a joke. Where is Ilka?

Charity first | 10:18 a.m. July 3, 2008

Just a comment to those who are complaining about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Days Saints using the money to improve downtown instead of for charitable acts - If you had ANY idea how much money and volunteer hours the church donates throughout the world, working with many different religious and civic organizations, you would be ashamed of your comments. Rest assured that any money made in this venture will, in one way or another, eventually be used in charitable acts.

Mayhem Mike | 10:24 a.m. July 3, 2008

I don't see the Catholics, Jews and Protestants, Atheists or ??? rushing to revitalize downtown!! Get off the back of the Church!

luvin it | 10:27 a.m. July 3, 2008

I can't wait to buy a 6 pack of my favorite beer at Harmons and toast the new development with a margareta in one of the new resturants. Thank you for making all this possible.

Third Party | 10:28 a.m. July 3, 2008

Of course, the project will have intended and unintended consequences. The LDS church has no assurance that the economy won't tank at the wrong time and create an economically languishing retail center. I can understand there are also those that might think it also will change the political balance of downtown SLC. I personally think the downtown political diversity will continue and will never again fall under one roof. It's all in the future and we'll have to wait for the results.

If it increases the attraction of SLC for Tourists and skiers then we'll all benefit in one way or another. I'm not for or against the project, just a third party who can see there are obvious benefits and that realistically any unintended problems will not be sufficent to offset the gains.

A nice appearance, and a sense of diversity can't hurt the image of the state.

New Yorker | 10:29 a.m. July 3, 2008

I walk past several churches in Manhattan everyday that are literally falling down. Maybe those of you that are so against the LDS church building up the downtown area in SLC should form a group to put a couple of billion dollars into renovating these deteriorating churches in New York? Well?

RL | 10:33 a.m. July 3, 2008

I find it VERY hard to believe a member of the church doesn't know where their tithing money is going... if you aren't really LDS, DON'T post as one. For the record, tithing never goes to such projects. And church headquarters always informs the members of where it's all being spent. In fact, when we make donations, we can even specify where we want it to go... wow, what a concept. It's the Lord's money and we still have control over it!

Business | 10:35 a.m. July 3, 2008

Living within a couple blocks of South Temple and Main, I am excited to see the new development and think it will be great to re-vitalize downtown.
However, lets be realistic and stop calling the LDS a church and start calling it what it really is, a successful business. Lets admit it, there are some smart business minded people associated with LDS and they sure know how to invest other peoples money, I mean tithing for their own benefit.

Anonymous | 10:39 a.m. July 3, 2008

I love to read the comments on anything that the Mormon Church does because there are always those who show their ignorance and lack of intellect by their accusations and comments. If living here is so extremely difficult and detrimental to your health and welfare because of the Mormons way of life, leave and don't let the boundaries of this great state hit you in the "butt" as you leave. Utah is a great place to raise a family and a vast majority of the people who move here do so because of that one fact. So, don't bite the hand that feeds you. You can't have your cake and eat it too. It is obvious that the leaders of this great city of Salt Lake don't care about the downtown area or they wouldn't have screwed up so badly by putting malls right across the street from each other. What a disaster that was. Now maybe we will have a nice place to spend our lunch time or evening time and not have it filled with asphalt or cement.

Brent | 10:46 a.m. July 3, 2008

I am from Washington State. I have read the developments of this project with interest. The LDS Church has been and always will be a class act. The downtown of SLC will be a showcase. My word, Seattle can't keep an NBA team they have had for 45 years! Whether LDS or not, a truthful citizen would be delighted for the improvements. Where would the City be today without the LDS influence? Certainly not where it is at today or where it will be tomorrow.

Get er done | 10:48 a.m. July 3, 2008

When has the church ever been denied anything IT wants? Just waiting see which street they take next. For a church...business seems to be pretty good, just surprized IRS hasn't jumped into the mix.

Anonymous | 10:48 a.m. July 3, 2008

Why are people so excited about a Mall? It will be blight in 15 years, just like the previous malls. Yes, downtown needs to be renovated, but how about some cultural institutions like Museums instead of a shopping complex that will lose favor in a few years?

James J. | 10:51 a.m. July 3, 2008

I can't believe how stupid people are. NO TITHEING MONIES ARE BEING USED FOR THIS PROJECT. Research facts so you donï¿½t sound like a bunch of morons. Also, please donï¿½t post like you a Mormon when your not. Everyone knows your not, so why try????
James

Yeah, right | 10:58 a.m. July 3, 2008

So the church is revitalizing downtown at it's own expense...at what expense to the rest of us? More church rules on what people can and cannot drink? What they can and cannot do on a city sidewalk? Honor code to live in one of the condos they are building? Just more theocracy and another reason to avoid the LDS vatican city.

kenny | 11:02 a.m. July 3, 2008

I am a non Utah Mormon and like to read comments here at the DN.What I see is the constant fighting between the mormon side of Utah and the non mormon side.It does not matter what the issue is,or even if there is a issue.The battle is taking place in Zion.Mormons who wont get along with their non mormon neighbors and visa versa.I know. I lived in Utah once and saw the battle go on every day. I heard it from both sides.You Utahns act like spoiled brats.I would send "both" of you "bratty kids" to bed with out dinner until you can behave like adults.To you mormons "stop getting in their faces with your superior attitude."To you non mormons:"You know who controls Utah."Thats not going to change any time soon.So live with it or leave. Now having said that will both sides kiss and make up.I love this church but hate what the church does in Utah to make a buck.A mall!!!!! another place for people to use their credit cards to get further into debt.

porky | 11:04 a.m. July 3, 2008

tithing funds are NOT being used in this project; tithing $'s are used for the religious side of LDSInc. Investment $$$'s are what's going into this project. Only wish I had as good an investment counselor as LDSInc; or just goes to show how compounding interest works!

had "the church" not done anything about the pitiful condition of the rapidly deteriorating downtown SLC, one can only imagine that another 20 years from now the same people complaining today about LDSInc cleaning up their neighbors backyard (so to speak) would be griping about why LDSInc, with "all their money" didn't do something about downtown earlier.

Re: Yea Right | 11:11 a.m. July 3, 2008

Go play now, the adults are talking.

Anonymous | 11:18 a.m. July 3, 2008

Who cares? The Olympics are over. Who would voluntarily go to SLC?

Jack | 11:19 a.m. July 3, 2008

I am delighted the LDS Church is taking ownership of the downtown area. As the property owner I'm sure they will want to keep the sabbath holy and include in the CCR's that commercial properties will need to be closed - many, many blessings will follow. It would be sadly hypocritical to do otherwise.

Re: Anonymous | 11:21 a.m. July 3, 2008

Maybe the couple of hundred thousand people who live there.

Anonymous | 11:22 a.m. July 3, 2008

To Anonymous:

"Who cares? The Olympics are over. Who would voluntarily go to SLC? "

You would.

I'm in shock | 11:24 a.m. July 3, 2008

Wow!!! this is news - the lds church got something they wanted...

Maybe it took longer than they wanted, but somehow they always seem to get their way in this state - funny how things work out for a group that controls every form of local politics, media, etc, etc....

Himself | 11:30 a.m. July 3, 2008

To Inevitable,

I like it just fine. You leave.

Kenny | 11:33 a.m. July 3, 2008

As far as downtown SLC,I'm not for a mall...but... if the church is the only one that has a interest in it then leave them alone and let them just do it.Its their back yard and they can use it anyway they want to within reason.Come and see my city.You would leave here and kiss the feet of those who are trying to make SLC a better place to live.You dont know how good you have it.I do think however that the church as a corporation can get on the bad side of alot of people in Utah.Listen.....those people who work in that tall white office building are not always the best.I heard second hand once that even President Hinckley saw that one.He knew the way it was when he was an employee of the church.Not everyone had "YOUR" best interest at heart!!!!!

Alex | 11:44 a.m. July 3, 2008

"Maybe it took longer than they wanted, but somehow they always seem to get their way in this state - funny how things work out for a group that controls every form of local politics, media, etc, etc.... "

Look, I don't care what the majority religion is. Any group that wants to revitalize downtown is going to be welcome to do it. Why would you say no to such an offer? No taxpayer money, no tithing money. (Yes, I do realize some people just want to "stick it" to the LDS Church.)

My dad used to say, "Pigs get fat, but hogs get slaughtered." When you are offered a gift, take it for heaven's sake!

Careful | 11:54 a.m. July 3, 2008

I am a member of the Church, and I am glad that they invest in projects to improve our communities. I live up in South Ogden, and I think the money invested in Ogden has helped to clean up what was a worn-down and dangerous part of town. I do however think that caution should be used. I think there needs to be a clear cut boundary between church and state. To the people who are making comments such as, "if you don't like it, leave." Let's remember the early history of the church. It was that kind of thinking that made mobs form and persecuted the church in its early days. Let's not return the favor. It is that type of polarized thinking that creates problems, and unfortunately, I know many LDS people that think like this, which is why I have more non-LDS friends. We are all Utahns. Let's build on our similarities instead of being belligerent because of our differences.

Baltimore | 11:56 a.m. July 3, 2008

Lived here for four years now and would love for someone to step in to clean things up. Granted, seeing heroin addicts on the way to work is diverse, I'll take a place I can walk with my wife and not worry about being assaulted. Salt Lake is the way it is primarily from the influence of its major religion--I just wish there was such an influence that was interested in the revitalization of my town on their own dime.

Re: Careful | 11:57 a.m. July 3, 2008

Couldn't have said it better.

Raymond Takashi Swenson | 11:59 a.m. July 3, 2008

Clearly, the people criticizing the LDS Church here are ignorant of the fact that the city was established by the Church and that extensive real property in the city has been owned by the Church for 150 years. In the founding period, the Church was about the only source of capital investment, so it helped to create businesses of various kinds in the area. When it sold off those businesses, it had capital to invest and has done so in ways intended to support the local community so the environment of Church headquarters would be a positive one. It should also be noted that the land under the Salt Palace and the Utah Symphony Hall was donated by the Church to the community. The Church invested in moving LDS Business College and BYU-Salt Lake into downtown to also enhance the environment around Temple Square, so Salt Lake can have actual residents and retail services and not be an office desert like Kansas City and many other downtowns across the nation. Note that the Church-owned businesses pay income taxes before providing any profits to the Church.

MY SLC | 12:02 p.m. July 3, 2008

What happened to the crystal chandelier that was in the ZCMI Center. As I remember it was European? quite expense and was written about quite a bit.

Anonymous | 12:04 p.m. July 3, 2008

The Catholic Church built St. Pauls in Rome. The Mormon church build a mall.

Alex | 12:06 p.m. July 3, 2008

Careful:

Hear, hear.

GK from England | 12:14 p.m. July 3, 2008

With all due respect this project will only really benefit people living in Utah. My Tithing money could have been spent on hundreds of chapels needed in other parts of the world. With the cost of fuel rising and rising, my family could do with a Stake Centre nearby. It takes us over an hour to get to our Stake Centre in the UK. For some members in our Stake it is an hour and a half. That's a lot of expensive fuel! That said, with the LDS Church behind this project I have no doubt it will look stunning and will probably bring good investment to the area and the Church in the long term.

Terri Dance Salisbury Missouri | 12:18 p.m. July 3, 2008

To "if not tithing then what" at 9:41 am
Checking for comment censoring again.

See the "other" line on your donation slip and put some money there.

Watch for Union Pacific RR cars going by all over the nation. Send a self-addressed stamped envelope and a donation for the time spent to answer you and ask for a list of The Church's separate and taxed--business entities. You will be impressed with the vision and breadth of what is being done to keep moving towards independence from Babylon when the time arrives.

m | 12:26 p.m. July 3, 2008

I think downtown is going to look great and the fact that the LDS church is helping with some of the costs means it will save the tax payers money - what is not to love?

Zakuska | 12:32 p.m. July 3, 2008

This morning Governor Huntsman spoke with Doug Wright about how Oregon and several other states who are suposed to be burning stock piled Weapons of mass destruction who are running behind schedule and over budget want to ship there stuff to utah who are running on schedule and under budget.

Utah and the Mormons and their work ethic just cant win. We're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't. Its sad really.

Terri Dance Salisbury MO | 12:31 p.m. July 3, 2008

I hope the moderator is just out to lunch beacause it would be really aggravating to see all these anti bashing the Church postings again allowed and no good reason for the constant disappearance of mine which obey all the rules!

El Paso | 12:36 p.m. July 3, 2008

Last time I visited SLC (few months ago) we went downtown. I was amazed at the renovation. I had no idea the church was spearheading all of that until today. To anyone who is getting heartburn over the new digs I'll swap ya for an acre of land with two houses and pool here in EP. And if I need to double my tithing for a few years I'll throw that in.

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