Reader comments
LDS get final OK on project
199 comments | Read story
former Utahn | 12:44 a.m. July 3, 2008
I'm pleased that at least one organization in Utah wants to renew the
central business district. It seems that Salt Lake City government was not
willing to do the job itself. It seems like a business risk, but one worth
taking for the Church to keep the area vital for church tourists and anyone else
who appreciates an appealing downtown.
Observer | 1:21 a.m. July 3, 2008
I don't know why this should merit a story. LDS members represent more than
90% of Utah's elected or appointed government officials. The approval for
the LDS project is merely a rubber stamp made from the highest quality rubber
tree.
Silent Partner | 2:07 a.m. July 3, 2008
I never drive downtown. I guess I'll need to get down there to see how my
tithing money is being spent.
Comments continue below
To Observer | 2:23 a.m. July 3, 2008
Thats why it took 20 months. yeah what rubber are u talking about.
Better observer | 2:29 a.m. July 3, 2008
Dear Observer,
Obviously, you have not watched Salt Lake City politics lately. Do you not remember the Main Street Plaza controversy? Not everything is a slam dunk. Thank goodness informed people, and not fools like you, publish stories like these, so that those of us who actually want to know what's going on in our community, actually know.
Obviously, you have not watched Salt Lake City politics lately. Do you not remember the Main Street Plaza controversy? Not everything is a slam dunk. Thank goodness informed people, and not fools like you, publish stories like these, so that those of us who actually want to know what's going on in our community, actually know.
Another Observer | 4:53 a.m. July 3, 2008
Silent Partner: Apparently you have not kept up on the project. The church said
from the beginning that it will not use "any" tithing funds for this
project.
Observer: the article says Salt Lake City not Utah and there are more LDS members now outside the US than in. The mayor of Salt Lake City is not a member of the church and I highly doubt that even 70% of the officials from these boards are members.
Observer: the article says Salt Lake City not Utah and there are more LDS members now outside the US than in. The mayor of Salt Lake City is not a member of the church and I highly doubt that even 70% of the officials from these boards are members.
A Utahn | 5:05 a.m. July 3, 2008
It's going to look great! I'm so glad that it's all approved. I
think the only hold up in the entire project was Rocky Anderson who is so
Anti-Mormon. Now that he's out of the picture downtown Salt Lake can now
have a much deserved new look.
dan | 5:36 a.m. July 3, 2008
To SILENT...guess you don't follow the story that well, or you'd know
that the L.D.S. church is not using any of you tithing money on this project.
barry | 5:48 a.m. July 3, 2008
Observer... get a life
to silent partner | 5:50 a.m. July 3, 2008
Tithing money is not used to rebuild down town. Do your homework before you
write.
The Mormon Bashing Continues... | 6:00 a.m. July 3, 2008
So far we have three comments, and two of them are negative towards the LDS
Church. It's amazing how many people so quickly rush to criticize anything
the Church does.
Keen observer | 6:04 a.m. July 3, 2008
So move already. No one has you tied up in their basement, do they?
Dennis | 6:07 a.m. July 3, 2008
Gee Mr. Observer, if you think that Salt Lakes Boards and Commissions are merely
puppets for the Churchs domination and dictatorship why did it take 25 attempts
and changes to please them and get their approval. Don't you people have
important things to do. This constant badgering on every article must be very
time consuming.
Advice | 6:22 a.m. July 3, 2008
To "Silent Partner"--Your best view of something where your tithing
funds have been spent will be each Sunday as you attend Sabbath Day meetings or
attending one of the 120 plus temples. But if you go downtown please spend your
time on North Temple between State Street and West Temple because if you look
south on South Temple you'll find there is very little to see where your
tithing funds are being used. Come to think about it there isn't anything
for several blocks.
Sleuth | 6:59 a.m. July 3, 2008
Mainly tourists and cooperating locals will enjoy the opportunity to visit the
new developed downtown and spend their money. Some new low-paying jobs will be
made available. The existing blight will be reduced. Who knows, maybe this
development will be successful and attract even more investors who will expand
upon it and who have no LDS Church affiliation, which will encourage a badly
needed spontaneous Utah economy. Utah's prime infrastructure is geared
mainly to sustain Utah's tourism industries (skiing, Church tourism, local
business conventions), not individual enrichment. No one but the development
investors will get rich on this, but I am not sure that the poor will become
poorer by this capitalist venture.
RE: Silent Partner | 7:01 a.m. July 3, 2008
If tithing were paid for the right reason and in the right spirit, this kind of
comment would never even be thought of, much less printed for all to see!
Carlos | 7:06 a.m. July 3, 2008
Sorry, but your tithing money went to BYU! I would point out that YOUR tithing
money is not yours in the first place. Moreover, once you make the donation,
you have absolutely no say on where it is spent. That is not a bad thing. This
is an exciting project and will draw people to the downtown area-it was dowdy
and raw before and someone needed to do it. The LDS church is the only
organization that has the money to do it. I say it is a good thing. It will
make SLC fun again.
Anonymous | 7:07 a.m. July 3, 2008
We get the point...it's not tithing money. So, where does that money go?
And, where did all this money come from?
just a little tweak | 7:27 a.m. July 3, 2008
I don't care where the funds are coming from (though where do you think the
"non" funds originated anyway), I'm just glad they are finally
allowed to fully move into a building phase. With the economy the way it has
gone, I was worried all we might end up with was pits of destruction in
downtown. Looking forward to the Harmons this fall. It will be great to have a
full-service, local grocery close at hand.
I hope the project goes forward smoothly. My office is only a mile away now, but I'll be checking into the new space to see if I can open something two blocks away. It will be really nice to have the plazas and parks. Hopefully as additional blocks and buildings get facelifts or do-overs, developers will add more green space.
I hope the project goes forward smoothly. My office is only a mile away now, but I'll be checking into the new space to see if I can open something two blocks away. It will be really nice to have the plazas and parks. Hopefully as additional blocks and buildings get facelifts or do-overs, developers will add more green space.
Robert | 8:09 a.m. July 3, 2008
It is good to fix up the down town, but it should be a public project, not a
chuch responsiblity. Utah is already too much of a church state. The church
needs to get out of politics and government. The church should tend to its own
business and leave the state business to the people. The church has already done
too much to keep utah in the dark ages.
Anonymous | 8:14 a.m. July 3, 2008
Where would the church get 1.5 billion. If not from tithing?
James J. | 8:14 a.m. July 3, 2008
It is great to see my church helping people out, (with jobs, giving people a
hand up not a hand out, ) and making my town a more beautiful place to live. God
bless them all.
Its too bad that people have so much hatred, and vile in their hearts to see the wonderful, awesome things the LDS church does. Truly the Lords church.
Its too bad that people have so much hatred, and vile in their hearts to see the wonderful, awesome things the LDS church does. Truly the Lords church.
Ernest T. Bass | 8:15 a.m. July 3, 2008
Can someone explain to me why a church needs to own a mall that will end up
costing a few billion dollars?
PRI | 8:21 a.m. July 3, 2008
The money came from Property Reserve Inc. more commonly referred to as PRI. The
company which is owned solely by the LDS Church initially created the company
when some church owned land was sold in the downtown area. This company has
continued to grow and its assets, all over the state and nation, are enormous.
Its assets are large enough to cover the construction of the City Creek Center
without the creation of any debt. This company was not created through tithing
and is now completely self supported.
Coming Not So Soon | 8:25 a.m. July 3, 2008
I heard recently that the Harmons is coming in 2010 and the development
won't be complete until 2012.
Inevitable | 8:25 a.m. July 3, 2008
We wanted the Main Street Plaza. We got it after a couple of hickups. We
wanted this project to move forward and now it will. If you don't like it
- leave.
Dude! | 8:26 a.m. July 3, 2008
everytime I look at these comments, someone says "why is this even a
story?". I think these informed people need to get in the newspaper
business since their story ideas seem infinitley superior.
RE: Silent Partner | 8:27 a.m. July 3, 2008
I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but what concerns me the most about the
tithing comment is the fact that a member is paying their tithing and not having
any faith in what is being done with it. Why do you pay?
HAters | 8:40 a.m. July 3, 2008
I love the people that move into a state full well knowing what it is and then
complain until the bitter end that it is that way. Example I live in Arizona it
is hot here in the summer I knew that when I moved here. If I were to follow
most of the people on this message board I would blame the LDS church for the
heat just because.
Is it just me? | 8:40 a.m. July 3, 2008
Isn't anyone else curious about where the $1.5 billion came from? I mean,
I know that "tithing funds weren't used," but because the church
doesn't declare its holdings to us members, we have no idea where the money
is from. I know we give tons to charitable causes, but if we have $1.5 billion
laying around, don't you think we could do something more humanitarian with
it?
Citizen of Downtown | 8:42 a.m. July 3, 2008
Aren't you glad someone care for the city and the convenience it will bring
to those who visit and leave within its vicinity!? Surely, that would be an
improvement to me and my family.
We live within 3 blocks radius of the area and we are tired of driving far just to get our groceries. You might not have the incovenience of what we have that live here, so please, stop bickering and let us have our own "shopping heaven". Tithing or no tithing, I will consider it a blessing.
We live within 3 blocks radius of the area and we are tired of driving far just to get our groceries. You might not have the incovenience of what we have that live here, so please, stop bickering and let us have our own "shopping heaven". Tithing or no tithing, I will consider it a blessing.
Robert Oh | 8:50 a.m. July 3, 2008
Can we get them to install a tram ride from ground level to the top of the JS
memoral building?
Maybe a rollercoaster or log flume ride down city creek canyon.
Maybe a rollercoaster or log flume ride down city creek canyon.
Chuck Farley | 8:55 a.m. July 3, 2008
The LDS Church is revitalizing downtown SLC at no cost to taxpayers, and some
people are whining? Only in SLC.
Ignorance is Bliss | 8:57 a.m. July 3, 2008
I am always humored by folks like Dennis and Robert. They are obvioulsy
ignorant of teh fact that the State sits back and waits for the Church to make
the tough decisions AND take the heat. Example: The New Church plaza happend
after 30 years of planning. The Churhc desired to reduce vibtrations for the
Temple and create a continious block from West Temple to State Street. The City
approached the Church and said "the City budget is $8 million plus in the
hole - are you interested in buying the top 15 feet of top soil so you can build
your plaza?" Fact is The Church always owned the land below the surface.
Now tourists and members have a safe place to visit and spend money which
benefits cash strapped downtown SLC. It was a gay church group that decided to
fight the move - and hid behind a group of selfish and rather dapper folks in
the avenues claiming the road closure would disrupt their quality of life. Get
the facts folks.
Well said | 9:02 a.m. July 3, 2008
Well put, Chuck. Good grief, the Mormon Church can't do anything right in
it's own back yard!
Citizen of downtown to Chuck | 9:04 a.m. July 3, 2008
You are right Chuck, only in SLC do you get people pulling others down for doing
a good thing. And only in its own town where LDS Church is always wrong no
matter what good they do. Hmmmm.
To: Robert | 9:13 a.m. July 3, 2008
Explain to me how Utahans are going to raise $1.5B? A tax raise, the rest of
the state would take that real well. People outside of Salt Lake would scream
at seeing their taxes increased to pay for something that
doesn�t benefit their own residence. The church took this
project because a healthy downtown is in its best interest. Just look at the
area surrounding the Ogden temple, what a waste. The other reason is because a
city the size of Salt Lake could never raise the money. This is a very generous
gift that all people will get to enjoy. The ingratitude in your comment is
laughable. It�s not like you have to join in order to
enjoy the place once it�s done. The only thing dark ages
is your insight.
Come to my town! | 9:18 a.m. July 3, 2008
From someone living outside of Utah and SLC, I'd like to invite the Church
to build a similar project in my town! It sounds like a great improvement to
downtown SLC that's being funded be an extremely reputable developer. I
don't get why that's a bad thing. Also thanks for the PRI comment
that cleared up the confusion about where the money is coming from. And please
keep in mind the Church isn't just throwing away money on this development.
They expect a return on their investment. They'll be leasing retail space
and selling housing units, etc. Plus, the downtown area is the hub of a
worldwide Church. Would the Catholic Church want a blighted and abandoned area
across the street from the Vatican? It�s critical that the
Church protect historic Temple Square. From what I've read and seen, this
is going to be great for SLC!
Think about it | 9:21 a.m. July 3, 2008
The people wondering were the 1.5 billion is coming from are simple minded.
Like any capital expendature in business, the capital (or costs) are probably borrowed funds. Which will be paid back from the money genarated by rents and other income producing events conected with the development. Do you think the Boyer company just laid out all the money up front to build the Gateway? And it is not the Mormon Church who is building the project, it is a company which they have a financial interest in.
Also, I dought that the complainers regarding tithing money are even members of the Mormon church.
I personaly have no problems with Mormons, I think they make good neighbors and care about their community.
Oh and I'll bet some of their tithing money went to help rebuild my churhes building when it was destroyed by fire as they were a major contributor the our rebuilding fund, and I thank them for it, I did not see any private clubs, bars or people like Rocky Anderson come forward and donate anything to our rebuilding fund, or even lend a hand in any other way.
Like any capital expendature in business, the capital (or costs) are probably borrowed funds. Which will be paid back from the money genarated by rents and other income producing events conected with the development. Do you think the Boyer company just laid out all the money up front to build the Gateway? And it is not the Mormon Church who is building the project, it is a company which they have a financial interest in.
Also, I dought that the complainers regarding tithing money are even members of the Mormon church.
I personaly have no problems with Mormons, I think they make good neighbors and care about their community.
Oh and I'll bet some of their tithing money went to help rebuild my churhes building when it was destroyed by fire as they were a major contributor the our rebuilding fund, and I thank them for it, I did not see any private clubs, bars or people like Rocky Anderson come forward and donate anything to our rebuilding fund, or even lend a hand in any other way.
Ex Utahn | 9:22 a.m. July 3, 2008
I grew up in Utah, but moved away over ten years ago. I love the state and will
always consider it my home.
As I read the many comments posted in response to the various articles, I am embarrassed. Congratulations on the ridiculous image which is portrayed to the rest of the world by the uneducated blather that readers insist on posting.
As I read the many comments posted in response to the various articles, I am embarrassed. Congratulations on the ridiculous image which is portrayed to the rest of the world by the uneducated blather that readers insist on posting.
Fritz | 9:22 a.m. July 3, 2008
I imagine if you want to know where the money is coming from it would not be
difficult to find out. It is taxable and in the public record. What you think
it comes from mugging old ladies on street corners? The LDS Church has numerous
business holdings which all pay the required taxes. It should come as no
surprise that the LDS Church has many business holdings and property; there were
no businesses when they came here, so they set-up the stores and newspapers and
schools.
Why do they want to build this? Because it beautifies their property, and it helps the community. Seems that some people can only eat their bitter food, think their bitter thoughts, and write their bitter viewpoints even when given a sweet gift.
I have watched the video on the development website. This is awesome. I can see how the controversial sky bridge really is a necessary part of the project. When this project was first proposed who would have guessed gas prices would be where they are? The residential part of this is going to be very popular.
Why do they want to build this? Because it beautifies their property, and it helps the community. Seems that some people can only eat their bitter food, think their bitter thoughts, and write their bitter viewpoints even when given a sweet gift.
I have watched the video on the development website. This is awesome. I can see how the controversial sky bridge really is a necessary part of the project. When this project was first proposed who would have guessed gas prices would be where they are? The residential part of this is going to be very popular.
Joe | 9:32 a.m. July 3, 2008
To all anti mormons/everything utah does people, that keep posting negative
things and masking their remarks by saying, "I am a member of the church,
but why are we..." We all know what you are doing! Stop complaining
because the church is doing something great for downtown SLC. If you don't
want a better Utah, get out!! We don't hold animosity, we are willing to
share a great community, please act your age.
To Chuck and others | 9:30 a.m. July 3, 2008
You only say that because you are mormons, if you weren't you might have
some idea of how sick so many of us are of the overbearing mormons. Why
can't utah just be a normal state like its neighbors: colorado, arizona,
etc. Why do we have to suffer all this mormon business, it is almost as bad as
the religious politics of the middle east.
Dear Haters | 9:32 a.m. July 3, 2008
I hate that we're getting an amazing new mall that is going to revitalize
downtown, boost the economy, and attract 10 million visitors each year.
That's just the worst. And I also hate that the LDS church had the
foresight to not use any tithing or taxpayer money to do it. I would much rather
pay for something like this myself. I know its all just a conspiracy to build
mind control devices or something underneath while the unsuspecting public go
about their shopping above. Well hopefully it doesn't inconvenience you,
and if you're really as opposed to this project as you profess, go shop at
the Gateway, or stop complaining. That's an idea. But I know that
everything that sucks in your life is because of the LDS church, so on behalf of
all 13+ million of us, I would like to formally apologize and propose future
monetary, emotional, mental, physical and spritual reparations to make up for
all the agony you've endured.
Anonymous | 9:33 a.m. July 3, 2008
Why do people continue to give trollers any response at all? I highly doubt that
those whining about tithing money are members of the LDS church at all, but the
same trollers we see over and over again, who wake up in the morning and rush to
their computers to see what they can whine about with the LDS church. They just
think it holds more of a trolling effect if they claim it is their money. And
judging from the responses of people who can't let it slide, they are
right.
These comments are primarily utilized by only two types of people on the right and left extremes. The mormon-haters who complain about everything, and for some unknown reason...they still choose to live in Utah. And the religious extremists who argue every point as if everyone should believe as they do...and usually not very well. The normal people, both mormons and non-mormons alike, I think just sit back and shake their heads. Or have long since stopped reading these comments.
These comments are primarily utilized by only two types of people on the right and left extremes. The mormon-haters who complain about everything, and for some unknown reason...they still choose to live in Utah. And the religious extremists who argue every point as if everyone should believe as they do...and usually not very well. The normal people, both mormons and non-mormons alike, I think just sit back and shake their heads. Or have long since stopped reading these comments.
Proud SLC Resident | 9:35 a.m. July 3, 2008
All of you who are so upset about the church revitalizing downtown. What is your
problem? It is not your money! Get over it. Why do you care? If you don't
like it don't go to it! Why waste your time on an article if you are so
upset over it? What a bunch of babies! I for one couldn't be happier that
money is being spent downtown. I applaud the church and local govt leaders for
making this happen. Puzzled - Put your money where your mouth is. What have
you built/designed downtown? Let us critic your precious architechture so we can
bash you.
This is Great! | 9:37 a.m. July 3, 2008
This is going to be Great!
Joe W. | 9:42 a.m. July 3, 2008
Hey anti-Mormons.... don't you ever wonder why you spend so much time
hating when so many of you actually think you are doing work for God?
I'm a Christian who LOVES Mormons... and every good thing they do for my city! It makes me feel good and happy... and I'll leave the rest up to the Lord (I can easily see how "Christian" they are based on their actions!)
I'm a Christian who LOVES Mormons... and every good thing they do for my city! It makes me feel good and happy... and I'll leave the rest up to the Lord (I can easily see how "Christian" they are based on their actions!)
Moroni | 9:42 a.m. July 3, 2008
Yea ye love your malls and accumulating the riches of the world more than ye
love feeding the poor and needy the sick and afflicted. (Mormon 8)
If not Tithing then what | 9:41 a.m. July 3, 2008
If this is not tithing money being used then where is the money coming from? Is
tithing not the source of income for the Church? And if it is money derived from
investments is not that investment money first derived from tithing? Just
wandering.
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