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LDS get final OK on project

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former Utahn | 12:44 a.m. July 3, 2008

I'm pleased that at least one organization in Utah wants to renew the central business district. It seems that Salt Lake City government was not willing to do the job itself. It seems like a business risk, but one worth taking for the Church to keep the area vital for church tourists and anyone else who appreciates an appealing downtown.

Observer | 1:21 a.m. July 3, 2008

I don't know why this should merit a story. LDS members represent more than 90% of Utah's elected or appointed government officials. The approval for the LDS project is merely a rubber stamp made from the highest quality rubber tree.

Silent Partner | 2:07 a.m. July 3, 2008

I never drive downtown. I guess I'll need to get down there to see how my tithing money is being spent.

Comments continue below

To Observer | 2:23 a.m. July 3, 2008

Thats why it took 20 months. yeah what rubber are u talking about.

Better observer | 2:29 a.m. July 3, 2008

Dear Observer,

Obviously, you have not watched Salt Lake City politics lately. Do you not remember the Main Street Plaza controversy? Not everything is a slam dunk. Thank goodness informed people, and not fools like you, publish stories like these, so that those of us who actually want to know what's going on in our community, actually know.

Another Observer | 4:53 a.m. July 3, 2008

Silent Partner: Apparently you have not kept up on the project. The church said from the beginning that it will not use "any" tithing funds for this project.

Observer: the article says Salt Lake City not Utah and there are more LDS members now outside the US than in. The mayor of Salt Lake City is not a member of the church and I highly doubt that even 70% of the officials from these boards are members.

A Utahn | 5:05 a.m. July 3, 2008

It's going to look great! I'm so glad that it's all approved. I think the only hold up in the entire project was Rocky Anderson who is so Anti-Mormon. Now that he's out of the picture downtown Salt Lake can now have a much deserved new look.

dan | 5:36 a.m. July 3, 2008

To SILENT...guess you don't follow the story that well, or you'd know that the L.D.S. church is not using any of you tithing money on this project.

barry | 5:48 a.m. July 3, 2008

Observer... get a life

to silent partner | 5:50 a.m. July 3, 2008

Tithing money is not used to rebuild down town. Do your homework before you write.

The Mormon Bashing Continues... | 6:00 a.m. July 3, 2008

So far we have three comments, and two of them are negative towards the LDS Church. It's amazing how many people so quickly rush to criticize anything the Church does.

Keen observer | 6:04 a.m. July 3, 2008

So move already. No one has you tied up in their basement, do they?

Dennis | 6:07 a.m. July 3, 2008

Gee Mr. Observer, if you think that Salt Lakes Boards and Commissions are merely puppets for the Churchs domination and dictatorship why did it take 25 attempts and changes to please them and get their approval. Don't you people have important things to do. This constant badgering on every article must be very time consuming.

Advice | 6:22 a.m. July 3, 2008

To "Silent Partner"--Your best view of something where your tithing funds have been spent will be each Sunday as you attend Sabbath Day meetings or attending one of the 120 plus temples. But if you go downtown please spend your time on North Temple between State Street and West Temple because if you look south on South Temple you'll find there is very little to see where your tithing funds are being used. Come to think about it there isn't anything for several blocks.

Sleuth | 6:59 a.m. July 3, 2008

Mainly tourists and cooperating locals will enjoy the opportunity to visit the new developed downtown and spend their money. Some new low-paying jobs will be made available. The existing blight will be reduced. Who knows, maybe this development will be successful and attract even more investors who will expand upon it and who have no LDS Church affiliation, which will encourage a badly needed spontaneous Utah economy. Utah's prime infrastructure is geared mainly to sustain Utah's tourism industries (skiing, Church tourism, local business conventions), not individual enrichment. No one but the development investors will get rich on this, but I am not sure that the poor will become poorer by this capitalist venture.

RE: Silent Partner | 7:01 a.m. July 3, 2008

If tithing were paid for the right reason and in the right spirit, this kind of comment would never even be thought of, much less printed for all to see!

Carlos | 7:06 a.m. July 3, 2008

Sorry, but your tithing money went to BYU! I would point out that YOUR tithing money is not yours in the first place. Moreover, once you make the donation, you have absolutely no say on where it is spent. That is not a bad thing. This is an exciting project and will draw people to the downtown area-it was dowdy and raw before and someone needed to do it. The LDS church is the only organization that has the money to do it. I say it is a good thing. It will make SLC fun again.

Anonymous | 7:07 a.m. July 3, 2008

We get the point...it's not tithing money. So, where does that money go? And, where did all this money come from?

just a little tweak | 7:27 a.m. July 3, 2008

I don't care where the funds are coming from (though where do you think the "non" funds originated anyway), I'm just glad they are finally allowed to fully move into a building phase. With the economy the way it has gone, I was worried all we might end up with was pits of destruction in downtown. Looking forward to the Harmons this fall. It will be great to have a full-service, local grocery close at hand.

I hope the project goes forward smoothly. My office is only a mile away now, but I'll be checking into the new space to see if I can open something two blocks away. It will be really nice to have the plazas and parks. Hopefully as additional blocks and buildings get facelifts or do-overs, developers will add more green space.

Robert | 8:09 a.m. July 3, 2008

It is good to fix up the down town, but it should be a public project, not a chuch responsiblity. Utah is already too much of a church state. The church needs to get out of politics and government. The church should tend to its own business and leave the state business to the people. The church has already done too much to keep utah in the dark ages.

Anonymous | 8:14 a.m. July 3, 2008

Where would the church get 1.5 billion. If not from tithing?

James J. | 8:14 a.m. July 3, 2008

It is great to see my church helping people out, (with jobs, giving people a hand up not a hand out, ) and making my town a more beautiful place to live. God bless them all.
Its too bad that people have so much hatred, and vile in their hearts to see the wonderful, awesome things the LDS church does. Truly the Lords church.

Ernest T. Bass | 8:15 a.m. July 3, 2008

Can someone explain to me why a church needs to own a mall that will end up costing a few billion dollars?

PRI | 8:21 a.m. July 3, 2008

The money came from Property Reserve Inc. more commonly referred to as PRI. The company which is owned solely by the LDS Church initially created the company when some church owned land was sold in the downtown area. This company has continued to grow and its assets, all over the state and nation, are enormous. Its assets are large enough to cover the construction of the City Creek Center without the creation of any debt. This company was not created through tithing and is now completely self supported.

Coming Not So Soon | 8:25 a.m. July 3, 2008

I heard recently that the Harmons is coming in 2010 and the development won't be complete until 2012.

Inevitable | 8:25 a.m. July 3, 2008

We wanted the Main Street Plaza. We got it after a couple of hickups. We wanted this project to move forward and now it will. If you don't like it - leave.

Dude! | 8:26 a.m. July 3, 2008

everytime I look at these comments, someone says "why is this even a story?". I think these informed people need to get in the newspaper business since their story ideas seem infinitley superior.

RE: Silent Partner | 8:27 a.m. July 3, 2008

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but what concerns me the most about the tithing comment is the fact that a member is paying their tithing and not having any faith in what is being done with it. Why do you pay?

HAters | 8:40 a.m. July 3, 2008

I love the people that move into a state full well knowing what it is and then complain until the bitter end that it is that way. Example I live in Arizona it is hot here in the summer I knew that when I moved here. If I were to follow most of the people on this message board I would blame the LDS church for the heat just because.

Is it just me? | 8:40 a.m. July 3, 2008

Isn't anyone else curious about where the $1.5 billion came from? I mean, I know that "tithing funds weren't used," but because the church doesn't declare its holdings to us members, we have no idea where the money is from. I know we give tons to charitable causes, but if we have $1.5 billion laying around, don't you think we could do something more humanitarian with it?

Citizen of Downtown | 8:42 a.m. July 3, 2008

Aren't you glad someone care for the city and the convenience it will bring to those who visit and leave within its vicinity!? Surely, that would be an improvement to me and my family.
We live within 3 blocks radius of the area and we are tired of driving far just to get our groceries. You might not have the incovenience of what we have that live here, so please, stop bickering and let us have our own "shopping heaven". Tithing or no tithing, I will consider it a blessing.

Robert Oh | 8:50 a.m. July 3, 2008

Can we get them to install a tram ride from ground level to the top of the JS memoral building?

Maybe a rollercoaster or log flume ride down city creek canyon.

Chuck Farley | 8:55 a.m. July 3, 2008

The LDS Church is revitalizing downtown SLC at no cost to taxpayers, and some people are whining? Only in SLC.

Ignorance is Bliss | 8:57 a.m. July 3, 2008

I am always humored by folks like Dennis and Robert. They are obvioulsy ignorant of teh fact that the State sits back and waits for the Church to make the tough decisions AND take the heat. Example: The New Church plaza happend after 30 years of planning. The Churhc desired to reduce vibtrations for the Temple and create a continious block from West Temple to State Street. The City approached the Church and said "the City budget is $8 million plus in the hole - are you interested in buying the top 15 feet of top soil so you can build your plaza?" Fact is The Church always owned the land below the surface. Now tourists and members have a safe place to visit and spend money which benefits cash strapped downtown SLC. It was a gay church group that decided to fight the move - and hid behind a group of selfish and rather dapper folks in the avenues claiming the road closure would disrupt their quality of life. Get the facts folks.

Well said | 9:02 a.m. July 3, 2008

Well put, Chuck. Good grief, the Mormon Church can't do anything right in it's own back yard!

Citizen of downtown to Chuck | 9:04 a.m. July 3, 2008

You are right Chuck, only in SLC do you get people pulling others down for doing a good thing. And only in its own town where LDS Church is always wrong no matter what good they do. Hmmmm.

To: Robert | 9:13 a.m. July 3, 2008

Explain to me how Utahans are going to raise $1.5B? A tax raise, the rest of the state would take that real well. People outside of Salt Lake would scream at seeing their taxes increased to pay for something that doesnï¿½t benefit their own residence. The church took this project because a healthy downtown is in its best interest. Just look at the area surrounding the Ogden temple, what a waste. The other reason is because a city the size of Salt Lake could never raise the money. This is a very generous gift that all people will get to enjoy. The ingratitude in your comment is laughable. Itï¿½s not like you have to join in order to enjoy the place once itï¿½s done. The only thing dark ages is your insight.

Come to my town! | 9:18 a.m. July 3, 2008

From someone living outside of Utah and SLC, I'd like to invite the Church to build a similar project in my town! It sounds like a great improvement to downtown SLC that's being funded be an extremely reputable developer. I don't get why that's a bad thing. Also thanks for the PRI comment that cleared up the confusion about where the money is coming from. And please keep in mind the Church isn't just throwing away money on this development. They expect a return on their investment. They'll be leasing retail space and selling housing units, etc. Plus, the downtown area is the hub of a worldwide Church. Would the Catholic Church want a blighted and abandoned area across the street from the Vatican? Itï¿½s critical that the Church protect historic Temple Square. From what I've read and seen, this is going to be great for SLC!

Think about it | 9:21 a.m. July 3, 2008

The people wondering were the 1.5 billion is coming from are simple minded.

Like any capital expendature in business, the capital (or costs) are probably borrowed funds. Which will be paid back from the money genarated by rents and other income producing events conected with the development. Do you think the Boyer company just laid out all the money up front to build the Gateway? And it is not the Mormon Church who is building the project, it is a company which they have a financial interest in.

Also, I dought that the complainers regarding tithing money are even members of the Mormon church.

I personaly have no problems with Mormons, I think they make good neighbors and care about their community.

Oh and I'll bet some of their tithing money went to help rebuild my churhes building when it was destroyed by fire as they were a major contributor the our rebuilding fund, and I thank them for it, I did not see any private clubs, bars or people like Rocky Anderson come forward and donate anything to our rebuilding fund, or even lend a hand in any other way.

Ex Utahn | 9:22 a.m. July 3, 2008

I grew up in Utah, but moved away over ten years ago. I love the state and will always consider it my home.

As I read the many comments posted in response to the various articles, I am embarrassed. Congratulations on the ridiculous image which is portrayed to the rest of the world by the uneducated blather that readers insist on posting.

Fritz | 9:22 a.m. July 3, 2008

I imagine if you want to know where the money is coming from it would not be difficult to find out. It is taxable and in the public record. What you think it comes from mugging old ladies on street corners? The LDS Church has numerous business holdings which all pay the required taxes. It should come as no surprise that the LDS Church has many business holdings and property; there were no businesses when they came here, so they set-up the stores and newspapers and schools.
Why do they want to build this? Because it beautifies their property, and it helps the community. Seems that some people can only eat their bitter food, think their bitter thoughts, and write their bitter viewpoints even when given a sweet gift.
I have watched the video on the development website. This is awesome. I can see how the controversial sky bridge really is a necessary part of the project. When this project was first proposed who would have guessed gas prices would be where they are? The residential part of this is going to be very popular.

Joe | 9:32 a.m. July 3, 2008

To all anti mormons/everything utah does people, that keep posting negative things and masking their remarks by saying, "I am a member of the church, but why are we..." We all know what you are doing! Stop complaining because the church is doing something great for downtown SLC. If you don't want a better Utah, get out!! We don't hold animosity, we are willing to share a great community, please act your age.

To Chuck and others | 9:30 a.m. July 3, 2008

You only say that because you are mormons, if you weren't you might have some idea of how sick so many of us are of the overbearing mormons. Why can't utah just be a normal state like its neighbors: colorado, arizona, etc. Why do we have to suffer all this mormon business, it is almost as bad as the religious politics of the middle east.

Dear Haters | 9:32 a.m. July 3, 2008

I hate that we're getting an amazing new mall that is going to revitalize downtown, boost the economy, and attract 10 million visitors each year. That's just the worst. And I also hate that the LDS church had the foresight to not use any tithing or taxpayer money to do it. I would much rather pay for something like this myself. I know its all just a conspiracy to build mind control devices or something underneath while the unsuspecting public go about their shopping above. Well hopefully it doesn't inconvenience you, and if you're really as opposed to this project as you profess, go shop at the Gateway, or stop complaining. That's an idea. But I know that everything that sucks in your life is because of the LDS church, so on behalf of all 13+ million of us, I would like to formally apologize and propose future monetary, emotional, mental, physical and spritual reparations to make up for all the agony you've endured.

Anonymous | 9:33 a.m. July 3, 2008

Why do people continue to give trollers any response at all? I highly doubt that those whining about tithing money are members of the LDS church at all, but the same trollers we see over and over again, who wake up in the morning and rush to their computers to see what they can whine about with the LDS church. They just think it holds more of a trolling effect if they claim it is their money. And judging from the responses of people who can't let it slide, they are right.

These comments are primarily utilized by only two types of people on the right and left extremes. The mormon-haters who complain about everything, and for some unknown reason...they still choose to live in Utah. And the religious extremists who argue every point as if everyone should believe as they do...and usually not very well. The normal people, both mormons and non-mormons alike, I think just sit back and shake their heads. Or have long since stopped reading these comments.

Proud SLC Resident | 9:35 a.m. July 3, 2008

All of you who are so upset about the church revitalizing downtown. What is your problem? It is not your money! Get over it. Why do you care? If you don't like it don't go to it! Why waste your time on an article if you are so upset over it? What a bunch of babies! I for one couldn't be happier that money is being spent downtown. I applaud the church and local govt leaders for making this happen. Puzzled - Put your money where your mouth is. What have you built/designed downtown? Let us critic your precious architechture so we can bash you.

This is Great! | 9:37 a.m. July 3, 2008

This is going to be Great!

Joe W. | 9:42 a.m. July 3, 2008

Hey anti-Mormons.... don't you ever wonder why you spend so much time hating when so many of you actually think you are doing work for God?

I'm a Christian who LOVES Mormons... and every good thing they do for my city! It makes me feel good and happy... and I'll leave the rest up to the Lord (I can easily see how "Christian" they are based on their actions!)

Moroni | 9:42 a.m. July 3, 2008

Yea ye love your malls and accumulating the riches of the world more than ye love feeding the poor and needy the sick and afflicted. (Mormon 8)

If not Tithing then what | 9:41 a.m. July 3, 2008

If this is not tithing money being used then where is the money coming from? Is tithing not the source of income for the Church? And if it is money derived from investments is not that investment money first derived from tithing? Just wandering.

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