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GOP, Big Oil push shale in Utah
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Like starving at a feast | 12:06 p.m. July 2, 2008
I hear there are more barrels of oil than ever before and yet we pay more at the
pump. Maybe the problem isn't that demand exceeds the supply of oil, but
rather the problem is those who control it. If Utah is smart they will figure
out how to control their own supply of oil, for less.
What? We already have the answer in oil shale? We must be stupid. What exactly will producing it do to the lonely desert? Of what use is the desert to you now? Conservation is a method to keep what is about to go extinct. Oil shale is not on the verge of extinction. Food on my table, roof over my head, transportation to work that supplies for my needs: these are the things that face extinction, all because we won't go after the resources the good Earth intends for our use.
Techniques for extracting shale on state lands have proven that it can be done effectively and cheaper. Wake up, feds. In the process Utah could save the countries energy needs.
If you don't want modernization & civilization, there are plenty of pollutant free, desolate areas of the U.S. Go there!
What? We already have the answer in oil shale? We must be stupid. What exactly will producing it do to the lonely desert? Of what use is the desert to you now? Conservation is a method to keep what is about to go extinct. Oil shale is not on the verge of extinction. Food on my table, roof over my head, transportation to work that supplies for my needs: these are the things that face extinction, all because we won't go after the resources the good Earth intends for our use.
Techniques for extracting shale on state lands have proven that it can be done effectively and cheaper. Wake up, feds. In the process Utah could save the countries energy needs.
If you don't want modernization & civilization, there are plenty of pollutant free, desolate areas of the U.S. Go there!
TemplarReborn | 12:26 p.m. July 2, 2008
L. C. Price., working for the US Geological Survey [USGS] performed
extensive chemical analysis of abandoned oil wells (Bakken Oil Fields),
primarily in North Dakota and came away with an astonishing
conclusion�The Bakken trend contains up to 200 billion to
500 billion, yes that is with a �B�,
of original oil in place. The Bakken Field Light Sweet Crude dwarfs the Saudi
oil fields of 55 billion. The USGS, 9 years later, still has refused to release
Price�s report and their review of
Price�s work.
As recently as 2006, geologists J.Flannery and J. Kraus presented a paper using even more sophisticated computer modeling and extensive data input from The North Dakota Geological Survey and Oil and Gas Division. The model and data estimated initial barrels in place at 200 billion and prior to the paper�s release in 2006 estimates were refined upwards to 300 billion barrels of oil in place in North Dakota and Montana alone
As recently as 2006, geologists J.Flannery and J. Kraus presented a paper using even more sophisticated computer modeling and extensive data input from The North Dakota Geological Survey and Oil and Gas Division. The model and data estimated initial barrels in place at 200 billion and prior to the paper�s release in 2006 estimates were refined upwards to 300 billion barrels of oil in place in North Dakota and Montana alone
Comments continue below
What Alternatives? | 12:38 p.m. July 2, 2008
Environmentalists say:
No oil, no coal because of global warming
No ethanol because poor people need our corn
No wind mills because they kill birds
No hydroelectric because dams hurt fish
No solar because the panels would affect the land
they sit on
No Nuclear because of the waste
No hydrogen because it is unstable
No electric cars because coal makes electricity
Please environmentalist....Tell us what alternatives you will support because you are killing us.
No oil, no coal because of global warming
No ethanol because poor people need our corn
No wind mills because they kill birds
No hydroelectric because dams hurt fish
No solar because the panels would affect the land
they sit on
No Nuclear because of the waste
No hydrogen because it is unstable
No electric cars because coal makes electricity
Please environmentalist....Tell us what alternatives you will support because you are killing us.
Reality Check | 12:47 p.m. July 2, 2008
Ok! Here we go again.
Need the domestic produced oil? Absolutely!
Need to get it from whatever sources possible? Yes... within reasonable limits.
Utah an opportunity for doing so? You bet!
Can Utah afford to do it, both economically and ecologically? Maybe.
And there's the catch!
Economically speaking, I live right in the middle of the oil patch out here in the Uinta Basin, and frankly, it's hell on housing, businesses and essential services. The oil industry creates a wage/benefits expectation that is not possible for local businesses to keep up with, and housing is at the whims of the roller coaster effects of oil jobs and on the whole the oil industry costs impacts essential and social services to a far higher level than is given back...
Possible solution: Dispense with county-based system of special district funding that's derived from State oil revenues and implement a 'regional' system so a county like Duchesne county, which provides 1/2 of the jobs (and all that that impacts) receives more than 15% of overall Basin produced oil lease/severence tax revenues... and make oil companies guarantee jobs to locals before bringing in outsiders.
The ecological considerations... well... water impact is key here.
Need the domestic produced oil? Absolutely!
Need to get it from whatever sources possible? Yes... within reasonable limits.
Utah an opportunity for doing so? You bet!
Can Utah afford to do it, both economically and ecologically? Maybe.
And there's the catch!
Economically speaking, I live right in the middle of the oil patch out here in the Uinta Basin, and frankly, it's hell on housing, businesses and essential services. The oil industry creates a wage/benefits expectation that is not possible for local businesses to keep up with, and housing is at the whims of the roller coaster effects of oil jobs and on the whole the oil industry costs impacts essential and social services to a far higher level than is given back...
Possible solution: Dispense with county-based system of special district funding that's derived from State oil revenues and implement a 'regional' system so a county like Duchesne county, which provides 1/2 of the jobs (and all that that impacts) receives more than 15% of overall Basin produced oil lease/severence tax revenues... and make oil companies guarantee jobs to locals before bringing in outsiders.
The ecological considerations... well... water impact is key here.
Re: James J. & John | 12:46 p.m. July 2, 2008
If you can't ride a bike to work- buy an air car (youtube: air car), there
cheap and can run forever, or better yet, a bus pass I ride the bus (or bike)
everywhere I go and I live in a very rural area.
and James, no, we shouldn't get energy from all resources available- solar and wind power have little effect on the environment in comparison to fossil fuels and fit the american ideal of consume consume consume
Electricity is the answer- and no the electric companies will not be in charge; you will be, buy solar panels, it'll will pay itself off in the long run.
you can say all you want but Americans are being absolute idiots right now. We have all the resources available to be independent; no one is willing to sacrifice the minutia of their lives, they would rather sit at a computer all day and complain.
wah wah wah, 5,000 sq. ft houses and SUVs, wah wah wah
and James, no, we shouldn't get energy from all resources available- solar and wind power have little effect on the environment in comparison to fossil fuels and fit the american ideal of consume consume consume
Electricity is the answer- and no the electric companies will not be in charge; you will be, buy solar panels, it'll will pay itself off in the long run.
you can say all you want but Americans are being absolute idiots right now. We have all the resources available to be independent; no one is willing to sacrifice the minutia of their lives, they would rather sit at a computer all day and complain.
wah wah wah, 5,000 sq. ft houses and SUVs, wah wah wah
Look to History | 12:56 p.m. July 2, 2008
As a lifelong Utahn who lives out here in the Uintah Basin where all this tar
sand and shale source oil is I simply as the following:
Senators Hatch and Bennett (and all the other Utah congressmen), please don't allow your support of this effort to run amock and be the next China environmental disaster.
China went hell-bent for its vast coal reserves and what little oil it possesses and in the hellter-skelter manner in which you and your Republican colleagues appear to be doing, want to throw responsible stewardship of our ecology, and environment to wind, in the hopes that somehow the wind will blow the problems away. PLEASE! Don't fall into the trap of Republican hard-ass for the Corporations only attitude of doing something today that long after you're dead and gone will have to be dealt with by your grand children's generation... all because you decided to cave into Corporate Socialism.
Let's go after the oil sources, but make Corporations pay their way... all the way, and for God's sake take a more consequential perspective of what todays actions could or can result in... some of it irreversable.
Time for RESPONSIBLE and THOUGHTFUL decisions and actions.
Senators Hatch and Bennett (and all the other Utah congressmen), please don't allow your support of this effort to run amock and be the next China environmental disaster.
China went hell-bent for its vast coal reserves and what little oil it possesses and in the hellter-skelter manner in which you and your Republican colleagues appear to be doing, want to throw responsible stewardship of our ecology, and environment to wind, in the hopes that somehow the wind will blow the problems away. PLEASE! Don't fall into the trap of Republican hard-ass for the Corporations only attitude of doing something today that long after you're dead and gone will have to be dealt with by your grand children's generation... all because you decided to cave into Corporate Socialism.
Let's go after the oil sources, but make Corporations pay their way... all the way, and for God's sake take a more consequential perspective of what todays actions could or can result in... some of it irreversable.
Time for RESPONSIBLE and THOUGHTFUL decisions and actions.
re: what alternatives | 12:56 p.m. July 2, 2008
I'll tell you:
electric cars powered by solar electricity.
there you go. love, an environmentalist.
electric cars powered by solar electricity.
there you go. love, an environmentalist.
LIberal Democrat Tree Hugger | 1:00 p.m. July 2, 2008
It's all the Republicans aka George Bushes fault! Republicans don't
care about the enviroment! They don't care if kids have deformities from
pollution! Lets get rid of big oil. Who needs plastics, autos, fertilizers etc.
Go natural, hug a tree and smile! :-)
Paid for by the Osama for President supporters.
Paid for by the Osama for President supporters.
Re: Look to History | 1:06 p.m. July 2, 2008
I think one of the biggest problems with these comments is that all of the
responders who say drill, drill, drill, don't live in communities the
drilling happens in.
Their perspective might change if someone came in took over their land, put in a road and said we're drilling here to give everyone more oil. It's ridiculous to think about how much money oil companies are making right now and that they can't do a better job for the communities they are in. Until the oil companies are held responsible to be better community partners, I say don't drill. If they can step up and find more ways to make this all work--then drill. It should all be on the government to regulate, but who else will at this point?
Their perspective might change if someone came in took over their land, put in a road and said we're drilling here to give everyone more oil. It's ridiculous to think about how much money oil companies are making right now and that they can't do a better job for the communities they are in. Until the oil companies are held responsible to be better community partners, I say don't drill. If they can step up and find more ways to make this all work--then drill. It should all be on the government to regulate, but who else will at this point?
Electricity is a sham! | 1:21 p.m. July 2, 2008
Some comments here state that we should move away from big oil and we could all
have electric cars in our driveways if we just tried and that would solve the
whole problem (Re:Here we go again 8:48). I can't believe how stupid some
people are. Just because you get electricity from a little plug in the wall
doesn't mean that it is an acceptable source of energy. Most electricity
in Utah is from coal power plants, and most new power plants are using natural
gas to generate electricity (which comes from oil companies you dummies!). If
you think by driving an electric car you are saving the environment and sticking
it to the man you are worse than the people you look down upon!
Reality | 1:42 p.m. July 2, 2008
The "left" would love to tell you what kind/size of car to drive and
this is there way of "forcing" you to do it. Drive oil prices high
enough, with their endless environmental excuses for developing our own
resources, so that we are all stuck in an ugly Prius.
No mention of the fact nobody will be able to afford to drive anywhere to enjoy any of the environment we have preserved anyways!!
There is never an shade of reasonableness or balance on the left--only "no this won't work" or "this will damage this". People and their way of life always come second in their view.
All the nay-saying liberals had all the same excuses about developing the oil-sands in Alberta, which is where I am from. Now my family is getting "prosperity" checks (hundreds $$ each)mailed to them from the government because of the ridiculous amounts of oil revenue generated from the oils sands that "could not be developed". They are producing 1.5 million barrels/day with a plan to quadruple production soon.
Strange since the environmentalists said that "it could not be done". You can can not trust them as far as you can throw their worthless carcasses!!!
No mention of the fact nobody will be able to afford to drive anywhere to enjoy any of the environment we have preserved anyways!!
There is never an shade of reasonableness or balance on the left--only "no this won't work" or "this will damage this". People and their way of life always come second in their view.
All the nay-saying liberals had all the same excuses about developing the oil-sands in Alberta, which is where I am from. Now my family is getting "prosperity" checks (hundreds $$ each)mailed to them from the government because of the ridiculous amounts of oil revenue generated from the oils sands that "could not be developed". They are producing 1.5 million barrels/day with a plan to quadruple production soon.
Strange since the environmentalists said that "it could not be done". You can can not trust them as far as you can throw their worthless carcasses!!!
who let the dinos out? | 2:01 p.m. July 2, 2008
Re: Jeff | 7:05 a.m. July 2, 2008
Oil Shale is more likely to be found near Vernal. Though, it would not surprise me if some other form of hydrocarbon were found near Price.
Oil was found down near Salina and exploration is taking place on the mountains west of Manti.
Oil Shale is more likely to be found near Vernal. Though, it would not surprise me if some other form of hydrocarbon were found near Price.
Oil was found down near Salina and exploration is taking place on the mountains west of Manti.
Lynn | 2:13 p.m. July 2, 2008
Look where your dollars are going.
Look who is making the money.
Not just a little - I have no quarrel with people making a reasonable profit. But this is obscene and at the expense of the American economy. It isn't only what I put in my gas tank. It's the price of everything else going up because the oil companies are charging almost $5.00 a gallon for diesel, which for almost 100 years has been practically a throwaway fuel; now they're charging more for it than for the most expensive designer fuels.
And they are doing it because they can.
Along with millions of acres of farmland going for corn for fuel, raising food prices even more.
You think that because the so-called investigations haven't proven price fixing that it doesn't exist?
Silly boy.
Look around you. Watch what happens every few days as prices continue to go up and up at the pumps, almost within minutes of each other, within a couple of cents of each other.
Don't forget what happened in California when Enron, primarily, staged the phoney gas shortage and made millions, or billions of extra dollars.
The oil companies are not our friends.
Look who is making the money.
Not just a little - I have no quarrel with people making a reasonable profit. But this is obscene and at the expense of the American economy. It isn't only what I put in my gas tank. It's the price of everything else going up because the oil companies are charging almost $5.00 a gallon for diesel, which for almost 100 years has been practically a throwaway fuel; now they're charging more for it than for the most expensive designer fuels.
And they are doing it because they can.
Along with millions of acres of farmland going for corn for fuel, raising food prices even more.
You think that because the so-called investigations haven't proven price fixing that it doesn't exist?
Silly boy.
Look around you. Watch what happens every few days as prices continue to go up and up at the pumps, almost within minutes of each other, within a couple of cents of each other.
Don't forget what happened in California when Enron, primarily, staged the phoney gas shortage and made millions, or billions of extra dollars.
The oil companies are not our friends.
It's Everything not just gasolin | 2:28 p.m. July 2, 2008
We exist in the lifestyle we have now as a result of the use of hydocarbons -
oil, nat gas and coal. It is not just an issue of driving our cars or not!
growing our food takes tons of fertilizer that is made from oil, transported to
the fields by diesel truck, harvested by a metal tractor - whose metal is made
with processes that use oil, gas and coal.
Aluminum is only available because of our ability to consume massive amounts of electricity to refine it.
What about plastic and ther formation into everything we use to live? Oil, and oil.
Nearly everything in our economy is dependent on oil or coal or natural gas.
Aluminum is only available because of our ability to consume massive amounts of electricity to refine it.
What about plastic and ther formation into everything we use to live? Oil, and oil.
Nearly everything in our economy is dependent on oil or coal or natural gas.
Angie | 2:47 p.m. July 2, 2008
Why would we want to rely on a Country like Irag for our oil. We are paying
over $4 a gallon, and they are paying $.48. We need to think of all our
citizens, not just the rich. I have seen areas that have been used for years
and years for lumber, drilling or whatever, and when they leave you can't
even tell they have been there. It looks better than it did before. It is
better for the enviroment than doing NOTHING!
Hey Templar Reborn | 3:14 p.m. July 2, 2008
The 500 billion bbls in Bakken Oil Field are an Internet myth, according to the
USGS. There's only about 1 billion bbls, or roughly 500 days supply.
RE: LYNN | 3:41 p.m. July 2, 2008
Over 40 percent of the "obscene" profits are owned by 401k investors.
That's common folk to you and me. If I buy stock in an oil company, I will
get less than 10 precent profit. If I invest in corn, however, as an
"alternative fuel source", I would get much more. A bushel of corn
has increased in price much faster than oil. Where's your outrage for the
obscene profits of the farmers? After all, corn makes flour, tortillas, etc.
I'm watching my food prices go up because of the obscene profits of the corn farmers. Are you with me, or do you simply have a political agenda?
I'm watching my food prices go up because of the obscene profits of the corn farmers. Are you with me, or do you simply have a political agenda?
Anonymous | 4:30 p.m. July 2, 2008
Oil shale is a chimera. It has been touted for more than 40 years. Like all
government rhetoric about gaining "oil independence" nothing ever
comes of it. The government does not have the incentive to do anything. Remember
theOil Crisis" of 1972 and all the surrounding promises? Nothing happened.
We will all get used to $4.00+ gas and nothing will happen until the next
"Crisis."
PP | 4:30 p.m. July 2, 2008
Actualy estimates of the Bakken oil field range from a low of 3 billion barrels
to a high of 900 billion barrels. These of course are all estimates but the
current production there suggests a number much higher than 3 billion.
So, for the poster at 3:14 PM your number of 1 billion is quite a bit off. Your post begs two other questions as well 1)If oil companies are willing to risk their money developing the resource why do you care? Do you want the Evil Oil Companies to keep all their ill gotten gains? 2) if there is only enough for 500 days that is 1 1/2 years worth of oil that we can use. It would be completely irresponsible of us to not use it.
So, for the poster at 3:14 PM your number of 1 billion is quite a bit off. Your post begs two other questions as well 1)If oil companies are willing to risk their money developing the resource why do you care? Do you want the Evil Oil Companies to keep all their ill gotten gains? 2) if there is only enough for 500 days that is 1 1/2 years worth of oil that we can use. It would be completely irresponsible of us to not use it.
Tell me why... | 5:00 p.m. July 2, 2008
My recent readings led me to some interesting facts on domestic oil drilling.
First of all, there is no "ban," as some people like to call it. In
reality, there is a moratorium on drilling in certain coastal areas. Other
areas are not only open to drilling but leases and drilling permits have already
been issued.
These areas are not being drilled.
In fact, only 17% of the leased area is in production. So, with about 33 million acres of offshore areas already available to drill and not being drilled, why does the oil and gas industry need to have access to still more? The fact is that nearly 25 BILLION barrels of oil off the coast of the United States is currently available for drilling...and industry is not drilling it. Not to mention natural gas. Most of the natural gas occurring offshore (over 328 TRILLION cubic feet � an eleven year supply at current consumption rates) is currently available for leasing and development.
And they're not going after it.
These areas are not being drilled.
In fact, only 17% of the leased area is in production. So, with about 33 million acres of offshore areas already available to drill and not being drilled, why does the oil and gas industry need to have access to still more? The fact is that nearly 25 BILLION barrels of oil off the coast of the United States is currently available for drilling...and industry is not drilling it. Not to mention natural gas. Most of the natural gas occurring offshore (over 328 TRILLION cubic feet � an eleven year supply at current consumption rates) is currently available for leasing and development.
And they're not going after it.
Tell me why (pt. 2) | 5:02 p.m. July 2, 2008
This is the story throughout the country; more than 44 million acres of onshore
public lands are leased for oil and gas development and yet most of it is not
being drilled. All told (onshore and offshore), 68 million acres are leased and
sitting idle. Over 10,000 permits are currently 'stockpiled' by
industry. But still they want more.
Between 1999 and 2007, the number of drilling permits issued for development of public lands increased by more than 361%. And did you see your gasoline costs drop? How about your electricity costs? Propane? Natural gas? Uh...no. Based on these figures, there doesn't appear to be a huge correlation between the industrialization of public lands and the price of fossil fuels.
It has been estimated that if all of those currently inactive leases were drilled, the USA would produce an additional 4.8 million barrels of oil and 44.7 billion cubic feet of natural gas EVERY DAY, accounting for a doubling of US oil production and a 75% increase in US natural gas production. The Minerals Management Service tells us that about 80% of fossil fuels available in offshore are currently available for development.
Between 1999 and 2007, the number of drilling permits issued for development of public lands increased by more than 361%. And did you see your gasoline costs drop? How about your electricity costs? Propane? Natural gas? Uh...no. Based on these figures, there doesn't appear to be a huge correlation between the industrialization of public lands and the price of fossil fuels.
It has been estimated that if all of those currently inactive leases were drilled, the USA would produce an additional 4.8 million barrels of oil and 44.7 billion cubic feet of natural gas EVERY DAY, accounting for a doubling of US oil production and a 75% increase in US natural gas production. The Minerals Management Service tells us that about 80% of fossil fuels available in offshore are currently available for development.
you're a sham | 5:04 p.m. July 2, 2008
In no way is electricity a sham- and for you to refer to someone as stupid for
believing as such is an ignorant truck loving comment; if electricity were a
sham then why is it that the most oil efficient car is an electric hybrid (not
counting the air car- which requires no oil) at 52 MPG?
Imagine this: right outside your 17 car garage below where your confederate flag hangs, you could have an electrical outlet with photo voltaic cells that are nearly capable of integrating 30% of the suns energy (Joules baby!)
Come home at night, plug it (or all 17 of them in) and ride away in the morning.
Mean while you could also consider putting solar panels on your 50 gajillion sq ft. house to deal with all the nrg you need for that theatre you have in your basement,etc.
food costs? Find a Community Sustained Agriculture (CSA) project, or better yet, make your own garden for that stay at home wife of yours who gan grow crops 7-8 months out of the year.
Am i being condescending? Yes, but electricity is in no way stupid. An Oil America, now thats stupid.
wah, wah, wah...
Imagine this: right outside your 17 car garage below where your confederate flag hangs, you could have an electrical outlet with photo voltaic cells that are nearly capable of integrating 30% of the suns energy (Joules baby!)
Come home at night, plug it (or all 17 of them in) and ride away in the morning.
Mean while you could also consider putting solar panels on your 50 gajillion sq ft. house to deal with all the nrg you need for that theatre you have in your basement,etc.
food costs? Find a Community Sustained Agriculture (CSA) project, or better yet, make your own garden for that stay at home wife of yours who gan grow crops 7-8 months out of the year.
Am i being condescending? Yes, but electricity is in no way stupid. An Oil America, now thats stupid.
wah, wah, wah...
Tell me why (part 3)... | 5:03 p.m. July 2, 2008
What's going on here is yet another example of political gamesmanship (and
I hold both political parties responsible), allowing the oil and gas
corporations to increase and assure huge industry profits at the expense of the
American people. These companies don't want to drill these areas. They
want to hold them as assets to limit the amount of oil and gas on the market so
that prices rise still further - and they make more money. They want to hold on
to these areas so that they can drill them ten or fifteen years from now in
order to maximize profits.
lowonoil | 5:37 p.m. July 2, 2008
From a government commissioned RAND Corporation report:
"Under high growth assumptions, an oil shale production level of 1 million barrels per day is probably more than 20 years in the future, and 3 million barrels per day is probably more than 30 years into the future."
Twenty to thirty years into the future, the worldwide production of oil from the sources we are using now will have dropped by tens of millions of barrels a day. So by 2038 the contribution of shale will mean our world production shortfall may be only 27 million barrels per day rather than 30. It may make a bad situation slightly less bad, but all you will know in thirty years is that it is bad.
"Under high growth assumptions, an oil shale production level of 1 million barrels per day is probably more than 20 years in the future, and 3 million barrels per day is probably more than 30 years into the future."
Twenty to thirty years into the future, the worldwide production of oil from the sources we are using now will have dropped by tens of millions of barrels a day. So by 2038 the contribution of shale will mean our world production shortfall may be only 27 million barrels per day rather than 30. It may make a bad situation slightly less bad, but all you will know in thirty years is that it is bad.
JimC | 6:37 p.m. July 2, 2008
The mere passing of legislation to overturn the democRATic Party back door act
of the December 2007 Omnibus Spending Bill, would IMMEDIATELY drop oil on
'COMMODITY' markets. (NO Alwhore, energy prices are not set by oil
execs in a smoke filled room!!)
The commodities market is driven FIRST by emotion and FUTURE events (why do you think its called the 'futures market'?) Secondly, it IS driven by supply. DON'T believe the liberal democRATS and their media friends that it's driven more by 'speculators'.
Do believe guys like T. Boone Pickens (he made in the neighborhood of $1 billion in 2007!) when he says daily worldwide production is 85 million bls, BUT daily demand is 86 million. This indicates a supply issue and not speculation.
Utah has two fine Senators who NEED to expose the real cuplrits of high energy prices of today - the democRATS, specifically the ones currently controlling congress. ONLY they can grant access to federal lands, not Bush or ExxonMobil.
Shell has the most to gain for their 'in-siti' process. Their process consumes very little water, or how about Global Resource Corp's microwave tech in a vacumm, no water and 'Alwhore' NO CO2!
The commodities market is driven FIRST by emotion and FUTURE events (why do you think its called the 'futures market'?) Secondly, it IS driven by supply. DON'T believe the liberal democRATS and their media friends that it's driven more by 'speculators'.
Do believe guys like T. Boone Pickens (he made in the neighborhood of $1 billion in 2007!) when he says daily worldwide production is 85 million bls, BUT daily demand is 86 million. This indicates a supply issue and not speculation.
Utah has two fine Senators who NEED to expose the real cuplrits of high energy prices of today - the democRATS, specifically the ones currently controlling congress. ONLY they can grant access to federal lands, not Bush or ExxonMobil.
Shell has the most to gain for their 'in-siti' process. Their process consumes very little water, or how about Global Resource Corp's microwave tech in a vacumm, no water and 'Alwhore' NO CO2!
Ridgerunner | 6:37 p.m. July 2, 2008
Democrats on increasing energy supply (any form) and thus decreasing price:
"NO, NO, and further more, NO!"
Republican solution: Go get more energy (all forms) and increase the supply and the price goes down!"
No brainer question to Americans: "Who should YOU vote for this coming election? DUH!
Republican solution: Go get more energy (all forms) and increase the supply and the price goes down!"
No brainer question to Americans: "Who should YOU vote for this coming election? DUH!
Lynn | 7:01 p.m. July 2, 2008
And where are the other 60% of the oil companies' profits going?
Let's see, 60% of how many billions of dollars every quarter going to ...
the big oil companies. And these billions do not include what goes for R and
D.
I think it's incredibly stupid to go all out for ethanol as an alternate fuel. Every study I've read indicates it takes way too much fuel compared to what is reaped for it to be truly practical in the long run. Or even the short run. It furthermore takes an enormous amount of water and other materials such as fertilizers to grow it, and all the while food prices are going up because of all of the millions of acres of food production taken out of use so they can grow fuel corn.
The corporations who used to grow green beans or soybeans are now growing corn for fuel. So the price of beans and every other farm product goes up because less are being produced.
I understand the temptation to do it. Short term, it seems great.
And yes there are other factors hurting our economy.
But the biggest single factor is big oil company greed.
I think it's incredibly stupid to go all out for ethanol as an alternate fuel. Every study I've read indicates it takes way too much fuel compared to what is reaped for it to be truly practical in the long run. Or even the short run. It furthermore takes an enormous amount of water and other materials such as fertilizers to grow it, and all the while food prices are going up because of all of the millions of acres of food production taken out of use so they can grow fuel corn.
The corporations who used to grow green beans or soybeans are now growing corn for fuel. So the price of beans and every other farm product goes up because less are being produced.
I understand the temptation to do it. Short term, it seems great.
And yes there are other factors hurting our economy.
But the biggest single factor is big oil company greed.
K | 7:11 p.m. July 2, 2008
Well there are vocanic eruptions taking place in the artic. So much for the
theory that ice is breaking off and melting due to cars.......
Freddie | 7:42 p.m. July 2, 2008
Re: lynn | 9:11 a.m. July 2, 2008:
"Any first year business student understands that if you come up with something, the race is on to get it to the market because great ideas don�t sit around, they always leak out."
Forty plus years ago I saw a silk stocking exhibit at the world's fair where the stocking would not run... even when scratched repeatedly with the point of a ten-penny nail. What happened to that technology? It apparently got swallowed up and shelved by hosiery manufacturers. They prefer to continue to sell dozens of pairs of women's hose per pear.
Something similar could apply to the auto and energy industry.
"Any first year business student understands that if you come up with something, the race is on to get it to the market because great ideas don�t sit around, they always leak out."
Forty plus years ago I saw a silk stocking exhibit at the world's fair where the stocking would not run... even when scratched repeatedly with the point of a ten-penny nail. What happened to that technology? It apparently got swallowed up and shelved by hosiery manufacturers. They prefer to continue to sell dozens of pairs of women's hose per pear.
Something similar could apply to the auto and energy industry.
wrz | 7:54 p.m. July 2, 2008
Cats | 9:53 a.m. July 2, 2008:
"(By the way, I have a ranch with a house that is totally off-grid solar...)"
Congratulations!! Good work. Can you give details? I envision plugging an electric car daily into a solar panel for travel to/from work/grocery, etc.
I think all new houses built should be required by the building code to have installed solar panels... and perhaps any other energy production devices.
"(By the way, I have a ranch with a house that is totally off-grid solar...)"
Congratulations!! Good work. Can you give details? I envision plugging an electric car daily into a solar panel for travel to/from work/grocery, etc.
I think all new houses built should be required by the building code to have installed solar panels... and perhaps any other energy production devices.
lowonoil | 8:02 p.m. July 2, 2008
Good Call , JimC. Do believe guys like T. Boone Pickens. He says daily
production is 85 millon barrels. You neglected to mention though, that he also
says 85 million barrels or so is the most it will EVER be. And he would know a
lot more about the real potential of shale oil production than you or I. He is
one of the best known of those trying to warn the world about Peak Oil.
wrz | 9:59 p.m. July 2, 2008
Like starving at a feast 12:06 p.m. July 2, 2008:
"If Utah is smart they will figure out how to control their own supply of oil, for less."
Utah will sell it for what the market will pay. Just like any entrepreneur.
Oil prices are high because the oil industry has figured out that if they manipulate supply they can get more for their product. It's called monopoly. And they have figured out that there's little or nothing anyone can do about it in the short run.
That and speculators who buy and sell pieces of paper called oil futures contracts (no oil changes hands)... which should be illegal.
"If Utah is smart they will figure out how to control their own supply of oil, for less."
Utah will sell it for what the market will pay. Just like any entrepreneur.
Oil prices are high because the oil industry has figured out that if they manipulate supply they can get more for their product. It's called monopoly. And they have figured out that there's little or nothing anyone can do about it in the short run.
That and speculators who buy and sell pieces of paper called oil futures contracts (no oil changes hands)... which should be illegal.
anonymous | 10:07 p.m. July 2, 2008
regarding cng a very good idea just try to convert and see how far you get. the
epa has it sewed up so tight you can not do it.you have to get a certified
installer and the kit has to be certified also too expensive.and if you try to
do without certification the fine is $30.000 good luck i tried.
Osama bin laden right | 10:21 p.m. July 2, 2008
Bin laden predicted 10 years ago that the West would start to bend and be
destroyed by high prices of oil. He predicted that at almost $145 dollars a
barrel, we would begin our demise. Well, he is right if we do nothing but whine
and complain that we can't drill our way out and sit on our hands. We need
to get drilling and whatever else we can do to become independent. It only took
a couple of years to create the atomic bomb once the Manhattan Project started.
That was a tremendous leap in technology. Getting us independent of foreign oil
is nothing compared to that. I also take issue with the ridiculous notion that
it will take years for oil to be pumped now to make a difference. If the
government and radical liberals get out of the way, we can produce and
protectthe environment in a very short time. We are Americans with a heritage
of can do.
Georg | 10:42 p.m. July 2, 2008
If the congressman or senator is against using our natural resources and keeping
us supplied with abundant and affordable electricity and fuel for our vehicles -
VOTE THEM OUT!!!!!
If you have not figured it our by now - the so called "greens" are not our friends!
If you have not figured it our by now - the so called "greens" are not our friends!
To oil Mafia | 11:40 p.m. July 2, 2008
Obviously, you do not have a 401K or retirement plan. The vast majority of
stocks in the oil companies are owned by 401K investors from small company
employees, blue color and white colar union groups etc. Exxon Mobil stock is
controlled by such investors. Quit targeting the oil companies. Sure some of
the fat cat CEO have a pension way too big but that is nothing compared to all
the middle class stock holders in these companies and their desire to have a
nest egg when they retire. Or do you liberal think that you can put everyone on
Social Security forever without any retirement plans? Bush is not the problem.
People with little knowledge and inexperience and doing the liberal knee jerk
reaction of having the big brother government try to fix it are the problem.
When has the government taking over anything been better for Americans? The
mafia is big brother elitist liberals and Marxists Democrats.
Obama Republican | 9:54 a.m. July 3, 2008
DRILL DRILL DRILL, Drill here drill now!
What a Joke, "Drill here Drill now" is nothing more then an attempt to change the subject. We need Alterntives and unlike some on this board not all DEMS are "wacky environmentalist"
Where is the Electric car the DEMS demanded in California? Shelfed by Arnold and the Rep boys. What happendend to the Hydrogen cars promised in the Clinton Administration? Shelfed by Bush and the boys.
How much has Haliburtion stock went up since BUSH? From $6.55 to $55.38.
Follow the money people it will not lie to you. ALl you have to do is ask why some pundent is making an argument. Check out who funds them and presto you can see the spin.
Big oil is the pupeteer in this nation, they pull the strings!
Think about this question, why would big oil want more Refineries? Currently refiners are working at 85% capacity, meaning they could produce more gas by ramping up production.
Less supply equals less demand! More Refineries equals more SUPPLY!
Do not blame the Dems for the lack of Refineries blame BIG BUSINESS.
What a Joke, "Drill here Drill now" is nothing more then an attempt to change the subject. We need Alterntives and unlike some on this board not all DEMS are "wacky environmentalist"
Where is the Electric car the DEMS demanded in California? Shelfed by Arnold and the Rep boys. What happendend to the Hydrogen cars promised in the Clinton Administration? Shelfed by Bush and the boys.
How much has Haliburtion stock went up since BUSH? From $6.55 to $55.38.
Follow the money people it will not lie to you. ALl you have to do is ask why some pundent is making an argument. Check out who funds them and presto you can see the spin.
Big oil is the pupeteer in this nation, they pull the strings!
Think about this question, why would big oil want more Refineries? Currently refiners are working at 85% capacity, meaning they could produce more gas by ramping up production.
Less supply equals less demand! More Refineries equals more SUPPLY!
Do not blame the Dems for the lack of Refineries blame BIG BUSINESS.
wrz | 10:50 a.m. July 3, 2008
Lynn 7:01 p.m. July 2, 2008:
"I think it's incredibly stupid to go all out for ethanol as an alternate fuel. Every study I've read indicates it takes way too much fuel compared to what is reaped for it to be truly practical in the long run."
Brazil seems to do quite nicely on ethanol. They are independent of oil usage. However, sugar cane produces 6 times more ethanol than corn. Maybe we should switch to sugar cane. Question: Can it be grown in the US? How about sugar beets? I remember thinning and harvesting them as a kid.
"I think it's incredibly stupid to go all out for ethanol as an alternate fuel. Every study I've read indicates it takes way too much fuel compared to what is reaped for it to be truly practical in the long run."
Brazil seems to do quite nicely on ethanol. They are independent of oil usage. However, sugar cane produces 6 times more ethanol than corn. Maybe we should switch to sugar cane. Question: Can it be grown in the US? How about sugar beets? I remember thinning and harvesting them as a kid.
Cmon ... TELL ME WHY | 11:01 a.m. July 3, 2008
Okay, JimC. Youv'e seemed to master the art of hitting your ALL CAPS key
to make a clever dig, but you've completely ignored the FACTS. Explain to
me why the millions of proven oil fields currently leased on not being drilled?
Explain to me why it is very rare we hear your side say anything about the fact
the moratorium on drilling - even on federal lands - is limited to certain
areas.
The problem with people like you is that you honestly believe an increased supply will meet demand, thereby reducing the cost. While this may be the case in many circumstances of our economy, it simply isn't so with regard to controlled assets, such as oil. Price fixing is a real phenomenon. Blaming the green crowd does not address the real issue, as is evidenced by the fact so much proven land is currently available for drilling.
Don't be so ignorant.
The problem with people like you is that you honestly believe an increased supply will meet demand, thereby reducing the cost. While this may be the case in many circumstances of our economy, it simply isn't so with regard to controlled assets, such as oil. Price fixing is a real phenomenon. Blaming the green crowd does not address the real issue, as is evidenced by the fact so much proven land is currently available for drilling.
Don't be so ignorant.
Rich | 11:42 a.m. July 3, 2008
If we had a reasonable alternative for gasoline and diesel to power our
automobiles, trains, buses, tractor trailers and boats, I would be opposed to
extracting oil from oil shale. But we do not. And we do not have a reasonable
alternative in the near future. We must act now, or we will suffer the
consequences of our inaction in the future.
Every time I drive I-15 between SLC and Layton with stop-and-go traffic, I thank the Sierra Club and Rocky Anderson for delaying the Legacy Highway. I think about the millions of gallons of fuel being wasted by cars starting and stopping unnecessarily when the Legacy Highway and improving I-15 could have eliminated the traffic delays. And what did
Anderson et al accomplish besides an unnecessary delay? They succeeded in keeping big trucks off the new highway, which will finally be finished this fall, about five years too late. Big deal. Keeping trucks off the new road is meaningless.
And that's exactly what the environmental extremists will succeed in doing while fighting oil shale extraction. Delay, delay, delay, adding to our costs.
I say drill now and get off our dependence on foreign oil.
Every time I drive I-15 between SLC and Layton with stop-and-go traffic, I thank the Sierra Club and Rocky Anderson for delaying the Legacy Highway. I think about the millions of gallons of fuel being wasted by cars starting and stopping unnecessarily when the Legacy Highway and improving I-15 could have eliminated the traffic delays. And what did
Anderson et al accomplish besides an unnecessary delay? They succeeded in keeping big trucks off the new highway, which will finally be finished this fall, about five years too late. Big deal. Keeping trucks off the new road is meaningless.
And that's exactly what the environmental extremists will succeed in doing while fighting oil shale extraction. Delay, delay, delay, adding to our costs.
I say drill now and get off our dependence on foreign oil.
Old News | 1:14 p.m. July 3, 2008
You could blame Rocky and the Sierra Club for the delay on LH, but if Gov.
Leavitt had been honest with the Army Corps of Engineers with the environmental
impact statement, we could have avoided the unnecessary litigation. But, again,
you all miss the point.
I'm just curious how oil execs get a free pass in this whole thing. Obviously, people who wish to preserve our beautiful natural lanmarks in Utah and in other areas of the nation will speak to defend those interests. So what? Can you honestly say they have such undue influence that the majority of Congress - both Rs and Ds - kowtow to their power and might? Beyond that of the American public? Come on, give me a break. Is it at least possible to think it is in the oil companies' best interests to maintain the high prices? It's not as if they're saying, "well, I'd like to charge you less if I could only get to ANWR." That just doesn't add up to me.
I'm just curious how oil execs get a free pass in this whole thing. Obviously, people who wish to preserve our beautiful natural lanmarks in Utah and in other areas of the nation will speak to defend those interests. So what? Can you honestly say they have such undue influence that the majority of Congress - both Rs and Ds - kowtow to their power and might? Beyond that of the American public? Come on, give me a break. Is it at least possible to think it is in the oil companies' best interests to maintain the high prices? It's not as if they're saying, "well, I'd like to charge you less if I could only get to ANWR." That just doesn't add up to me.
mark | 3:15 p.m. July 3, 2008
Steve, you are brainless. NASA is a government org. Ugly deserts? Barren deserts
that no one uses? you obviously have never been outside.
You think if we don't have limitless drilling we will have 20 dollar half gallons of ice cream?
You think if we drill ANWR, that that oil will be sold in the USA, to take care of our domestic oil needs? How? Are we going to nationalize big oil? Force them to sell the oil domestically?
You think if we don't have limitless drilling we will have 20 dollar half gallons of ice cream?
You think if we drill ANWR, that that oil will be sold in the USA, to take care of our domestic oil needs? How? Are we going to nationalize big oil? Force them to sell the oil domestically?
mark | 3:28 p.m. July 3, 2008
person at 9:11 a.m. July 2, 2008, you said, "Get real, the government has
launched many investigations since the 70�s against oil
companies and not one of them has ever found evidence of collusion."
What!! You really have to stop listening to the radio kids! I have a relative that owned an oil company, he along with other oil execs got nailed for price fixing in the 70's, he lost his co.
No evidence of collusion, indeed!
You think things have changed?
What!! You really have to stop listening to the radio kids! I have a relative that owned an oil company, he along with other oil execs got nailed for price fixing in the 70's, he lost his co.
No evidence of collusion, indeed!
You think things have changed?
mark | 3:37 p.m. July 3, 2008
Fedup, you say, "You think big oil is rolling in the money, they must pay
for getting that gas to your gas station...the government just gets all
it's money without doing a thing"
They don't do a thing except build the roads for the oil companies to drive on to get the oil to your gas station. Supply the emergency response for when a oil semi is involved in an accident. Provide protection so oil is not pirated. Use the military to protect oil interests. Etc. . .
But other then that.
They don't do a thing except build the roads for the oil companies to drive on to get the oil to your gas station. Supply the emergency response for when a oil semi is involved in an accident. Provide protection so oil is not pirated. Use the military to protect oil interests. Etc. . .
But other then that.
Bakken Oil Field play is.... | 12:21 p.m. July 4, 2008
gaining momentum. Canadians are drilling like crazy and ramping up
production.
This is deeper oil than originally thought to have existed. Is abiotic theory of oil true after all?
Wow the enviro-whackos will be sqawking the lies on this one soon.
This is deeper oil than originally thought to have existed. Is abiotic theory of oil true after all?
Wow the enviro-whackos will be sqawking the lies on this one soon.
Joes45acp | 2:33 p.m. July 5, 2008
I'm a bit concerned about the shale drilling and possible ground water
contamination as I just purchased my retirement home in Pahrump, NV, right next
to Utah, and I get my water from a ground well. But, if the oil is there, we
should try and get it. Instead of generating hot water from a power plant, we
could build a Nuclear Reactor, and use the cooling water as a heat source, and
also gain a cheap alternative to fossil fueled electricity. One contributor
said 'we could have an electric car in every driveway'...but we do
need power, they need to be plugged in, and what about all the lead used in the
production of batteries? If Congress wants all these things, then let them
start by mandating all Gov't auto's be electric first, no more big
limo's, they all ride in Prius's, and no more private flights,
Congress flies Commercial, just as they used to. All the mandates by government
are first tried on government before making us the lab rats. And let's see
a prolifiration of atomic power plants as in Europe, cheap, unlimited energy.
Joes45acp | 3:27 p.m. July 5, 2008
To totally off the grid, you must be talking about our President's home,
his Texas ranch is off grid, he sells excess power back to the power co's,
collects rainwater for irrigation, while Al Bore's McMansion consumes 10x
the power of the average American, and just one of his private flights releases
more pollution and uses more natural resources than you and I will in our entire
lifetime. I ride one of my big bore Harley's more than I use my gas
guzzling P/U, and the Harley get's nearly 50mpg, does about 0 damage to the
infrastructure(roads)and used a whole lot less raw materials to produce, so lets
see more motorcycles out there, again Europe leads us here. And, far fewer of
you would cut me off cause 'you just didn't see me' if you rode
as well. I still stand by my statement of making Congress responsible for
trying out all these mandates before they push them on us, lead us by example.
And the oil leases not being used? Maybe no oil is there to drill for? Drill
where we know it is, offshore, Anwar, shale, wherever. And build more
refineries in Mexico if needed.
G | 8:20 p.m. July 6, 2008
Typical behavior in modern America: propose a solution (oil shale), get lots of
blame in return.
Thomas | 8:38 p.m. July 6, 2008
We should have been drilling years ago and extracting the oil from shale years
ago.
There are those--environmentalists, democrats and communists--who seem to want to keep us dependent on foreign oil. Obama is opposed to drilling in ANWR and the continental shelf, while the Cubans and Chinese slant drill off our coasts, extracting the oil we can't because of laws passed by the liberals and environmentalists.
Obama seems to want to all our eggs in one basket, searching for alternative energy sources while not developing our oil resources. It would seem wiser to develop our oil resources while we search for and develop alternative energy sources. We ought to eventually become energy self-sufficient and divorce ourselves from the Arabs and their blood-and-terrorist-tainted oil.
There are those--environmentalists, democrats and communists--who seem to want to keep us dependent on foreign oil. Obama is opposed to drilling in ANWR and the continental shelf, while the Cubans and Chinese slant drill off our coasts, extracting the oil we can't because of laws passed by the liberals and environmentalists.
Obama seems to want to all our eggs in one basket, searching for alternative energy sources while not developing our oil resources. It would seem wiser to develop our oil resources while we search for and develop alternative energy sources. We ought to eventually become energy self-sufficient and divorce ourselves from the Arabs and their blood-and-terrorist-tainted oil.
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Sen. Bob Bennett, center, speaks at the state Capitol about oil-shale and tar-sands development.
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this is not about liberal, this is about big people making a lot of money, there is resource, technology, money to invest in new ways to make a different product for our cars. THIS IS ABOUT MONEY AND POLITICS, THERE IS NO REASON TO HAVE THIS PRICES!!! OIL MAFIA makig this up because of the money!!!