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FLDS grand jury ends for the day
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zxcvbnm | 1:26 p.m. June 26, 2008
I hear the FLDS will start the YFZ campus of Warren Jeffs University.
The guys are laying out the foundation for the history department as we speak.
Classes planned are......The Missouri Exodus,
1953 short creek raid.....an 2008 Texas Raid.
Grandpa Phil | 2:22 p.m. June 26, 2008
Ahhhh, finally an admission that you do not know everything about the FLDS.
Recognition of a problem is the first step in alleviating the problem. You
claim to "know" that none go to college, that they are denounced and
banned if they pursue a career, that their parenting is all wrong but, in
reality, you don't really KNOW that; you strongly suspect it. It is
frustrating when they don't answer all of your questions but, the truth is,
they don't HAVE to. You equate no answer to an admission of guilt and that
is merely your assumption (and we all know what they say about assuming
anything).
I don't KNOW what goes on inside of that ranch either BUT, I KNOW without a doubt that those parents have an undeniable right - inalienable right if you will - to raise their children contrary to your of my standards. They answer to none but God. The same can be said for mine and yours. As Americans, we would have it NO OTHER WAY.
I don't KNOW what goes on inside of that ranch either BUT, I KNOW without a doubt that those parents have an undeniable right - inalienable right if you will - to raise their children contrary to your of my standards. They answer to none but God. The same can be said for mine and yours. As Americans, we would have it NO OTHER WAY.
Comments continue below
David | 2:38 p.m. June 26, 2008
RealityCheck,
"But I don't believe they would be welcome in their mother's FLDS home, which is sad - and shows that they have a lot less tolerance than I do."
Lets assume for a moment that it is true.
Is that grounds in your mind to remove children from their parents?
"But I don't believe they would be welcome in their mother's FLDS home, which is sad - and shows that they have a lot less tolerance than I do."
Lets assume for a moment that it is true.
Is that grounds in your mind to remove children from their parents?
Grandpa Phil | 2:55 p.m. June 26, 2008
RC, if what you want is for them to pursue a path that makes them happy and
fulfilled, then talk to one of the kids and find out from him/her what he/she
thinks that path is. Don't assume for them that your way is better than
theirs. "In my experience" just does not apply in this case. You
have no experience in these matters so you are ill equipped to judge. We
understand and admire your passion but, I envision you standing waist deep in
the middle of the Missouri River holding up your arms to turn it from its
decreed course. How long will you stand in the surf on the shore of Pacific
Ocean and flail your whip to halt the advance of the never-ending waves? It is
an exercise in futility. Such passion should be channeled in more productive
directions. The children are safe now. They may not have all of the freedoms
you would give them but that is not the goal. They are free within the bounds
the parents feel that the Lord has set. You are just going to have to be
satisfied with that or go back out and stand in the river.
zxcvbnm | 3:07 p.m. June 26, 2008
I figured out what Teresa was doing in the tree.
the poor girl was trying to escape from her lawyer.
Little does she realize that the lawyer will bring charges on her mother for allowing the girl to be more than two feet off the ground. A permissive parent is inexcusable in the eyes of Malonis and the child may have fallen and injured her non existant fetus.
One of the FLDS men was seen fireing up his rocket powered underpants to try a tree rescue operation but was stopped by Texas Rangers before lift off. The rocket blast would have disturbed the yellow security tape stretched around the courthouse perimiter.
Reality Check was seen running toward the tree shouting save the children....but was halted by Walther with the statement "thats my job".
Teresa jumped from the tree and landed safely as her dress also doubles as a parachute.
Teresa had the last laugh as she walked into the courtroom stateing.....see, I can save myself.
Children's Rights | 3:20 p.m. June 26, 2008
Amnesty International openly advocates four particular children's rights,
including the end to juvenile incarceration without parole, an end to the
recruitment of military use of children, ending the death penalty for people
under 21, and raising awareness of human rights in the classroom.[21] Human
Rights Watch, an international advocacy organization, includes child labor,
juvenile justice, orphans and abandoned children, refugees, street children and
corporal punishment.[22]
Scholarly study generally focuses children's rights by identifying individual rights. The following rights "allow children to grow up healthy and free":[23]
* Freedom of speech
* Freedom of thought
* Freedom from fear
* Freedom of choice and the right to make decisions
* Ownership over one's body
Scholarly study generally focuses children's rights by identifying individual rights. The following rights "allow children to grow up healthy and free":[23]
* Freedom of speech
* Freedom of thought
* Freedom from fear
* Freedom of choice and the right to make decisions
* Ownership over one's body
From The Creek | 3:25 p.m. June 26, 2008
Actually, many, many people go to college in our community. In fact, whoever
wants to can go. The same can be said of all the girls, we have our choices! I
have a sister that is 23 and is NOT married! can you beleive it! I know many
many girls in my town that are in their 20s and not married. The choice is ours
and always has been!
If I choose to raise my children to be truthful and grow up modest, that is my business. I won't try telling you how I think you should raise your children either, that is your business!
As far as "if I had a daughter leave , would I love her," mothers never stop loving their children EVER! but I don't know any that WANT to leave so....
If I choose to raise my children to be truthful and grow up modest, that is my business. I won't try telling you how I think you should raise your children either, that is your business!
As far as "if I had a daughter leave , would I love her," mothers never stop loving their children EVER! but I don't know any that WANT to leave so....
Learning Lots! | 3:29 p.m. June 26, 2008
You must admit, we have all learned alot about the FLDS because of this whole
mess. Because they let us into their big expensive homes and showed us their
living conditions, I will never feel sorry for them again. They pretend they are
not of the world...we have learned that is a lie. The women appear to be quite
and loyal to their husbands...lie. Yes, they have minds of their own, yes they
have money(the leadership families),yes they are on welfare, yes they know the
laws and yes they have many places of hiding. And yes they write on these
comment pages all the time! Try as they might, they will never convince me that
they do this for religion. Are we suppose to believe anything they say
anymore?
And whats with the girl climbing a tree???
And whats with the girl climbing a tree???
FLDS children Not | 3:33 p.m. June 26, 2008
Children's rights are defined in numerous ways, including a wide spectrum
of civil, cultural, economic, social and political rights. Rights tend to be of
two general types: those advocating for children as autonomous persons under the
law and those placing a claim on society for protection from harms perpetrated
on children because of their dependency. These have been labeled as the right of
empowerment and as the right to protection.[16] One Canadian organization
categorizes children's rights into three categories:
* Provision: Children have the right to an adequate standard of living, health care, education and services, and to play. These include a balanced diet, a warm bed to sleep in, and access to schooling.
* Protection: Children have the right to protection from abuse, neglect, exploitation and discrimination. This includes the right to safe places for children to play; constructive child rearing behavior, and acknowledgment of the evolving capacities of children.
* Participation: Children have the right to participate in communities and have programs and services for themselves. This includes children's involvement in libraries and community programs, youth voice activities, and involving children as decision-makers.[17][18]
* Provision: Children have the right to an adequate standard of living, health care, education and services, and to play. These include a balanced diet, a warm bed to sleep in, and access to schooling.
* Protection: Children have the right to protection from abuse, neglect, exploitation and discrimination. This includes the right to safe places for children to play; constructive child rearing behavior, and acknowledgment of the evolving capacities of children.
* Participation: Children have the right to participate in communities and have programs and services for themselves. This includes children's involvement in libraries and community programs, youth voice activities, and involving children as decision-makers.[17][18]
re; out of state reader | 3:33 p.m. June 26, 2008
If you want to read some real entertaing comments, read the comments that are
posted following any articles about BYU or the University of Utah. At our house
we call it "Mormons gone mad!"
realitycheck | 3:48 p.m. June 26, 2008
now that's good clean funny humor, zxcvbnm. A permissive parent is
inexcusable in the eyes of who? You sure you didn't mean FLDS? Because I
don't see a lot of leiway in their lifestyle.
And David - no - that is not grounds to remove the children. never said it was. I've just been saying that the FLDS are lousy parents and perhaps if they think about it, they may free one child to persue his/her goals in life, without banning them forever.
Won't happen, but since I don't have carpal-tunnel yet, I'll keep on saying it. It may sink in on some unlucky parent. (OMG - that would be BAD!!!!)
And David - no - that is not grounds to remove the children. never said it was. I've just been saying that the FLDS are lousy parents and perhaps if they think about it, they may free one child to persue his/her goals in life, without banning them forever.
Won't happen, but since I don't have carpal-tunnel yet, I'll keep on saying it. It may sink in on some unlucky parent. (OMG - that would be BAD!!!!)
Anonymous | 4:13 p.m. June 26, 2008
We say they need a education they need to see all ways of life, but then we
scorn them when they are amoung us why would they want to go out to college
amoung people that will not let them be themselves if it is different from what
you think they should be. Wake up we have not welcomed then in our so called
world so why say they are bad when we have shunned them for dressing and
believing different
Sue | 4:16 p.m. June 26, 2008
I wonder if realitycheck is Elissa Wall in disguise! "If it could just help
one child, one little girl"...... sounds all too familiar!
Course, she probably has more important things to do, like signing her novel!
Course, she probably has more important things to do, like signing her novel!
realitycheck | 4:26 p.m. June 26, 2008
you can dress conservatively without wearing clothing that sets you so far apart
that you invite ridicule from those that do not understand tolorance.
Muslims go to college wearing "different" clothes - they don't get bothered (and if they do, we should prosecute.) And the more "different" people out there, the better. At some point, the other people become the "different" people.
Don't use religion as an excuse to hold people back.
Muslims go to college wearing "different" clothes - they don't get bothered (and if they do, we should prosecute.) And the more "different" people out there, the better. At some point, the other people become the "different" people.
Don't use religion as an excuse to hold people back.
From the Creek | 5:43 p.m. June 26, 2008
The post from the last "creeker" wasn't me, but it made some good
points.
realitycheck,
I'll be the first to say that you're starting to make more sense now. However, you still desperately cling to the idea that we hold our children back from fulfilling their desires. It's just not true!
We are encouraged to use our opportunities to learn as many skills as we can. If someone wants to become a doctor, they can. If they want to be a nurse, EMT, firefighter, teacher, engineer, architect, computer programmer, electrician, plumber, dentist, (the list goes on and on), they can! No one will "shun" them for it either. The higher the skill, the better. Do you really think a bunch of uneducated zombies managed to create the beautiful homes & buildings at the YFZ ranch? Where do you think the web designers for the FLDS websites magically appeared from?
The reason we don't attend the public schools and colleges is because of the corruption and also the way we are treated. It has nothing at all to do with learning useful skills.
realitycheck,
I'll be the first to say that you're starting to make more sense now. However, you still desperately cling to the idea that we hold our children back from fulfilling their desires. It's just not true!
We are encouraged to use our opportunities to learn as many skills as we can. If someone wants to become a doctor, they can. If they want to be a nurse, EMT, firefighter, teacher, engineer, architect, computer programmer, electrician, plumber, dentist, (the list goes on and on), they can! No one will "shun" them for it either. The higher the skill, the better. Do you really think a bunch of uneducated zombies managed to create the beautiful homes & buildings at the YFZ ranch? Where do you think the web designers for the FLDS websites magically appeared from?
The reason we don't attend the public schools and colleges is because of the corruption and also the way we are treated. It has nothing at all to do with learning useful skills.
zxcvbnm | 10:46 p.m. June 26, 2008
I just discovered on another site that Malonis has given an interview to the Desert news.
Malonis said that she refused to testify at the grand jury hearing and that the judge has to rule that Teresa has revolked her attorney priviledge before Malonis can testify.
So Malonis is the first to comment on the "secret" hearing......who won the office pool on that bet?
This woman must love the attention. She goes to the media to say she said nothing at a hearing where noone is supposed to talk about anything publicly.
So did Malonis say something about nothing, or nothing about something when she is supposed to say nothing about anything.
I wonder if she called the paper just to say no comment......then commented about not saying anything.
Well let me say this about that.....I can only say that it sure takes a lot of effort to say something about nothing. I can't wait till Malonis can say something about anything because the confusion that the average reader gets reading something about nothing is almost as bad writing something about nothing.
Imagine the poor reporter having to print something about nothing.
Grandpa Phil | 7:41 a.m. June 27, 2008
Oh, THANKS A LOT "From the Creek: at 5:43"; now realitycheck is going
to be insufferable!! Telling him that he is starting to make sense is like
Custer selling guns to the Indians.
realitycheck, you are wasting your time ridiculing the FLDS for their manner of dress. Obviously, they do not care what the outside world thinks about their clothes or hair styles. WHy should they? Why should someone else's opinion of them be more important to them than their own? Their manner of dress reminds me of the good 'ole pioneer days (I sure MISS those days) when lives were simpler and children did not have to make the kind of choices you feel every child has a right to make. "Opportunity" as you see it is a matter of perspective. My daughters have the "right" to grow up to be pole dancers if they want to but, I would rather channel their interests in more productive directions. Am I stifling their free agency? No. I know what that path leads to and it is my duty as a parent to provide more uplifting and self-actualizing paths and goals. You may not believe it, but FLDS do the same.
realitycheck, you are wasting your time ridiculing the FLDS for their manner of dress. Obviously, they do not care what the outside world thinks about their clothes or hair styles. WHy should they? Why should someone else's opinion of them be more important to them than their own? Their manner of dress reminds me of the good 'ole pioneer days (I sure MISS those days) when lives were simpler and children did not have to make the kind of choices you feel every child has a right to make. "Opportunity" as you see it is a matter of perspective. My daughters have the "right" to grow up to be pole dancers if they want to but, I would rather channel their interests in more productive directions. Am I stifling their free agency? No. I know what that path leads to and it is my duty as a parent to provide more uplifting and self-actualizing paths and goals. You may not believe it, but FLDS do the same.
Grandpa Phil | 7:46 a.m. June 27, 2008
It happens all the time zxcvbnm, it is called "imbelishing the facts"
and "creative journalism". We have seen a lot of it lately.
That was some awfully DEEP thinking on your part. When do you have the time to sit down and think this stuff up?
That was some awfully DEEP thinking on your part. When do you have the time to sit down and think this stuff up?
MOM | 8:56 a.m. June 27, 2008
About the May/December romance- go to Los Angeles, thats where you will find a
large number of 20-30 women with 50-60 yr old successful men. Its not that
strange of an event. Just different I guess, having the CA connection& hubby
paying for your breast implants makes it ok there but not in TX or UT to have
much younger women with old farts???
I am a TX homeschooling mom with a large family, we homeschool, teach our kids our faith, and practice modest dress. We are NOT FLDS or fundy Christians.
Theres a lot of us here, we just are quiet about it.
I am a TX homeschooling mom with a large family, we homeschool, teach our kids our faith, and practice modest dress. We are NOT FLDS or fundy Christians.
Theres a lot of us here, we just are quiet about it.
zxcvbnm | 9:22 a.m. June 27, 2008
Oh Gramps.thats not anything. You should have seen me in the service.......
I have the gift of sarcasm I guess.
George Carlin was my heroe when I was young and I guess I never grew up.
realitycheck | 4:25 p.m. June 27, 2008
Grandpa Phil
I guess you still haven't figured out that the FLDS lifestyle is repressive and intolorant to it's followers. Or you don't like to criticise others even when they obviously should know better.
It's like walking down the street and seeing someone beating the daylights out of a woman or child. I guess you would just keep on walking, while I would try to (and have in the past) put a stop to it. Just a difference of opinion on how to handle different situations....
I guess you still haven't figured out that the FLDS lifestyle is repressive and intolorant to it's followers. Or you don't like to criticise others even when they obviously should know better.
It's like walking down the street and seeing someone beating the daylights out of a woman or child. I guess you would just keep on walking, while I would try to (and have in the past) put a stop to it. Just a difference of opinion on how to handle different situations....
zxcvbnm | 5:12 p.m. June 27, 2008
RC...... FLDS aren't beating their children on a public street......and
the abuse that sparked the raid was alleged by a mentaly ill caller identifying
non existant people being abused by a person 700 miles from the scene.......the
accused abuser was on the phone with the Sheriff during the raid.
The principle suspect in four of the six alleged under aged marraiges is in prison and one alleged victim denies being a victim.
Those state officials that observed the children (MHMR) reported the abuse of the children by CPS.
There is your known abuse.....and many pointed out the fact that women were being held as children as well......
The principle suspect in four of the six alleged under aged marraiges is in prison and one alleged victim denies being a victim.
Those state officials that observed the children (MHMR) reported the abuse of the children by CPS.
There is your known abuse.....and many pointed out the fact that women were being held as children as well......
Hey now | 6:46 p.m. June 29, 2008
Re: zxcvbnm 5:12 p.m. June 27, 2008. Why, oh why are we trying to explain
things to Reality check?
She doesn't care to hear anything that doesn't agree with her reality. She knows all the facts already and won't let them interfere with her world.
It's a bit like teaching a pig to sing, it frustrates you and annoys the pig.
She doesn't care to hear anything that doesn't agree with her reality. She knows all the facts already and won't let them interfere with her world.
It's a bit like teaching a pig to sing, it frustrates you and annoys the pig.
Grandpa Phil | 7:20 a.m. June 30, 2008
LOL at "Hey now". Agreed. You are right in that assessment of RC
but, just as RC displays a passion for her point of view, zxcvbnm and I continue
to butt heads with RC on this specific issue. SOmehow RC sees this abuse and no
one else does. It is not that we ignore it as RC claims but it just isn't
there to see. RC claims that I would keep on walking if I saw someone being
beaten; however, RC does not know that I have already stopped such beatings that
I have witnessed in the past. RC makes assumptions and repeats allegations long
since debunked. We have long determined that RC will never be confused by the
facts as her mind is already made up. RC's problem is indicative of what
this whole anti-FLDS thing is all about. People are decided in their hatred of
this group and their positions will not change no matter how this thing turns
out. If it stays like that, all will eventually settle down and the FLDS
families will be OK. AS long as it does not come to physical violence against
them, we will not get physically involved to protect them.
Grandpa Phil | 7:22 a.m. June 30, 2008
"Hey now", I equate it to be more like wrestling with a pig in the
mud; you both get muddy but the pig enjoys it.
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