Reader comments
Herbert to forward complaint
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Jeff A | 1:16 a.m. June 25, 2008
I think Gary Herbert did exactly what he should have done. I've followed
this story closely and I believe his decision was made with a lot of wisdom and
it's good to know we have someone in office that is more interested in
doing what is right than doing what is popular.
Anon | 3:51 a.m. June 25, 2008
I think it's a shame someone like Jason Chaffetz didn't come along to
give the Huntsman/Herbert ticket the same message in a primary. Herbert's
just another insider player. Curtis,Valentine,and Shurtleff better open their
eyes.
Bob G | 4:50 a.m. June 25, 2008
If there are improprities in elections the voters have a right to know before
elections, not after. Herbert by his actions and statements prior to elections
were used improperly to affect election results. He said just enough in attempts
to affect an election wheterer it is true or not. The judge should have acted
more appropiatly and made information public rather than hide information
knowing it would affect election results. It was all political manuvering on
Herberts part and had the desired affects. The courts actions are moot and
unimportant now and all charges may be quietly droped now that the elections are
over. The courts were used in political manuvering whether the judge likes it or
not. This is the pitfalls of delaying judgements and court actions and makes the
judge look like a used idiot.
Comments continue below
Ugly Situation | 7:04 a.m. June 25, 2008
I can certainly see some deliberation on the part of Herbert in waiting to
forward the complaint; however, you can't make a silk purse from a
sow's ear. I would have hated to see a candidate elected in a primary only
to be ruled ineligible because of an alleged shady deal. Herbert still failed
in my book because Walker voted for a pay raise for the treasurer while in the
legislature and according to Utah law it should have made him inelligible at
that point. But alas no word from Herbert in that regard, instead he
conveniently suggests that he did not want to pass on the "hot potato"
rather than address all of the issues. Either way it shows how frought the GOB
(Good Ole Boys)has become with questionable behavior. In Utah there aren't
many consequences for the GOB because for some reason most of the state
considers democrats as something less than "untouchables" in the
Indian caste system.
At least Utah gave George Bush his highest margin of victory in the union. Who else can see echos of the national stage here in Utah ie politics without morals or consequences?
At least Utah gave George Bush his highest margin of victory in the union. Who else can see echos of the national stage here in Utah ie politics without morals or consequences?
Your Candidate | 8:10 a.m. June 25, 2008
For everyone that didn't like Herbert's actions. What if next election
YOUR CANDIDATE has allegations filed against him two weeks before the election
and just a couple days before early voting for something that happened months
ago...I'm glad Gary Herbert has set a precedent to protect future
candidates from allegations that come in the midnight hour.
What? | 8:18 a.m. June 25, 2008
Did Lt. Governor Herbert really use the word "squirrelly?"
Herbert's creds | 8:58 a.m. June 25, 2008
I believe he was quoting Jefferson or Lincoln or some other great philosopher of
democracy when he used the term "squirrelly."
Anonymous | 9:04 a.m. June 25, 2008
If, as it appears, Walker attempted to bribe Ellis out of the race, he should be
charged criminally. While ignorance of the law is no defense, I can believe that
neither candidate initially recognized these discussions as illegal. However,
they both should have recognized what they were contemplated as unseemly. And
Ellis does not get to lay claim to the high road, because he only pushed the
issue after he was contacted by the press. Reporting Walker was either the right
or wrong thing to do, yet right and wrong did not enter into Ellis'
decision. His decision was informed by political expedience more than anything.
His could yet prove to be a Pyrrhic victory.
wait a minute | 9:43 a.m. June 25, 2008
Herbert you know that the employee's in the Treasurers office are merit
employee's. This means that at no-point can someone just come in and
clean-house. This argument it ludacris. I want to thank the voters for getting
out and voting for Richard. He is a quality human being and a man of integrity.
Oh Please | 9:46 a.m. June 25, 2008
You will never hear of this again. The Republicanazi party strongmen will not
allow this issue to see the light of day, you can be sure of that.
tough situation | 9:55 a.m. June 25, 2008
Herbert's in a tough situation because he's damned if he does and
damned if he doesn't. That's politics though. In this case, I think
he set aside his own personal interests and did exactly the right thing. He
very easily could have broken under pressure after all the negative articles so
that HE didn't look bad. But he chose to do what is right versus what was
popular. He did just what we elected him to do and he deserves a pat on the
back for that.
Paul Rolly | 9:55 a.m. June 25, 2008
I think it's interesting that Paul Rolly is reporting that the AG's
office was sitting on an internal memo that concluded that Walker was not
eligible to run for office given his vote to increase the treasurer's
salary last session.
Even though the powers that be will try to stifle all negative information to come out, I belive we still have some things to learn....
Even though the powers that be will try to stifle all negative information to come out, I belive we still have some things to learn....
Re: Paul Rolly | 10:17 a.m. June 25, 2008
Indeed, we do have more to learn. The problem is, I suspect that Richard
Ellis will not come out looking so squakey clean as folks might suspect.
Ralph | 12:44 p.m. June 25, 2008
"Oh Please" is correct. This issue will now disappear into the cool of
a Utah summer night, never to be heard of again. At least Mr. Walker's days
in politics are over.
good point | 1:56 p.m. June 25, 2008
Touch�! Looks like our Lt. Gov knew what he was doing
after all.
Just Tired | 3:13 p.m. June 25, 2008
I'm simply tired of people beating on the LtGov when the true culprits seem
to be BOTH Walker and Ellis.
Wow - an elected official did his job and did not succumb to political/media pressure! And HE is the bad guy?
For all of the posters who argue that there is no integrity in the political process anymore, who say that we should 'dump 'em all' - why are you beating up on someone who's bucking the 'political' grain and doing what he thinks is right?
It seems that the Ellis fans are mad that the LtGov didn't process his last-minute complaint (intended to hurt Walker) and also that the Walker fans are mad that the LtGov didn't throw the complaint away (to hurt Ellis).
Seems as if if both sides are mad, that the LtGov MUST have done something right....
Wow - an elected official did his job and did not succumb to political/media pressure! And HE is the bad guy?
For all of the posters who argue that there is no integrity in the political process anymore, who say that we should 'dump 'em all' - why are you beating up on someone who's bucking the 'political' grain and doing what he thinks is right?
It seems that the Ellis fans are mad that the LtGov didn't process his last-minute complaint (intended to hurt Walker) and also that the Walker fans are mad that the LtGov didn't throw the complaint away (to hurt Ellis).
Seems as if if both sides are mad, that the LtGov MUST have done something right....
Re: Just Tired | 4:13 p.m. June 25, 2008
Couldn't agree more.
Interesting case | 7:47 p.m. June 25, 2008
Upon first hearing of this case I believed Herbert should act quickly. But as
I've learned more details, including the time line involved, I've come
to believe Herbert has taken about the best possible course. Simply put, if
someone waits 3 months to file a complaint he can hardly expect everyone else to
act quickly.
As to the constitutional issues, I too have been concerned that Walker was ineligible to serve under the disability imposed by Utah State Constitution Article VI, Section 7. His term expires in January, he did vote to raise the salary of the State treasurer during that term, and the election to that office occurs in November, DURING his current term.
Of course, I remain equally concerned that we have several sitting legislators who are ineligible under separation of powers imposed by Utah State Constitution Article V, Section 1. NO executive branch employee--including public school employees, peace officers, nor city or county employees--should be serving in the legislature unless/until our State Constitution is amended.
As to the constitutional issues, I too have been concerned that Walker was ineligible to serve under the disability imposed by Utah State Constitution Article VI, Section 7. His term expires in January, he did vote to raise the salary of the State treasurer during that term, and the election to that office occurs in November, DURING his current term.
Of course, I remain equally concerned that we have several sitting legislators who are ineligible under separation of powers imposed by Utah State Constitution Article V, Section 1. NO executive branch employee--including public school employees, peace officers, nor city or county employees--should be serving in the legislature unless/until our State Constitution is amended.
re: mr.ms.mrs. | 8:06 p.m. June 25, 2008
Mark or steve whomever you are, an answer to your question is something that you
will never understand because neither one of you have this quality. Why
don't you look it up in the dictionary.
Mr.Ellis is also a courageous man. He stood up for what was right and did not back down from the money and power that Walker and Curtis, Bramble, Valentine and good ole Mark Shurtleff were offering him.
Why not learn from Mr. Ellis and fess up, try to salvage your career and name atleast for the sake of your family.
Mr.Ellis is also a courageous man. He stood up for what was right and did not back down from the money and power that Walker and Curtis, Bramble, Valentine and good ole Mark Shurtleff were offering him.
Why not learn from Mr. Ellis and fess up, try to salvage your career and name atleast for the sake of your family.
Bingo | 8:21 p.m. June 25, 2008
Im glad the truth is slowing starting to come out that Ellis isn't so
clean. It could be very ironic if the complaint that Ellis filed serves to be
his own un doing. He has already admitted that he stopped negotiations on this
job offer once he learned that it was illegal. Too bad he doesn't realize
that even having such negotiations is a crime. Republicans are messed up.
Algonquin | 8:27 p.m. June 25, 2008
Herbert did just as he should. He was wise enough to not allow his office to be
used by candidates for last minute slams and dirty tricks. Voters won twice on
Tuesday. Walker lost and the Lt Governor's office has not become the place
of choice for shifty campaign operatives looking for a sensational last minute
trick to play.
Mike Richards | 9:19 p.m. June 25, 2008
Since when does a public official, like Mr. Herbert, have the option to delay?
Does a police officer have the right to postpone writing a ticket until after
the birthday party is over, or does he have to decide, on the spot, whether an
infraction has occurred?
Mr. Herbert served no one but himself. The office of Lieutenant Governor has certain responsibilities. Mr. Herbert wanted to avoid those responsibilities, or at least postpone them. That doesn't speak very well of Mr. Herbert or of his respect for the office that he holds.
He did not have to judge whether Mr. Walker or Mr. Ellis was guilty, he only had to move the process along. He didn't. For that, he will go down in Utah history as the man who was afraid to act.
It's a good thing that he isn't a police officer or a soldier.
Mr. Herbert served no one but himself. The office of Lieutenant Governor has certain responsibilities. Mr. Herbert wanted to avoid those responsibilities, or at least postpone them. That doesn't speak very well of Mr. Herbert or of his respect for the office that he holds.
He did not have to judge whether Mr. Walker or Mr. Ellis was guilty, he only had to move the process along. He didn't. For that, he will go down in Utah history as the man who was afraid to act.
It's a good thing that he isn't a police officer or a soldier.
NBA Ref | 10:31 p.m. June 25, 2008
Here's what we know about the Lt. Gov's actions:
1) He referred this to the AG at 8pm Tues the moment the polls closed meaning he was ready to go but delayed solely to not influence the election.
2) He doesn't trust the voters to make intelligent use of the facts.
3) A no call has just as much "influence" as a yes call. Should a ref not call any fouls in the last quarter of a basketball game, no matter how flagrant, because it might affect the outcome of the game. This gives the advantage to the cheater.
4) He has set an unfortunate precedent. Should any abuse investigation, no matter how terrible, be postponed simply because it is filed close to the primary?
Here's what we don't know:
Why does the Lt. Gov. feel that it is proper or part of his job to speculate about what happened (as he did in this article) in such a way as to cast a favorable light on Mark Walker when there is an ongoing investigation? Shouldn't he say I'm not going to comment or speculate on the case or people's motives while this is being investigated?
1) He referred this to the AG at 8pm Tues the moment the polls closed meaning he was ready to go but delayed solely to not influence the election.
2) He doesn't trust the voters to make intelligent use of the facts.
3) A no call has just as much "influence" as a yes call. Should a ref not call any fouls in the last quarter of a basketball game, no matter how flagrant, because it might affect the outcome of the game. This gives the advantage to the cheater.
4) He has set an unfortunate precedent. Should any abuse investigation, no matter how terrible, be postponed simply because it is filed close to the primary?
Here's what we don't know:
Why does the Lt. Gov. feel that it is proper or part of his job to speculate about what happened (as he did in this article) in such a way as to cast a favorable light on Mark Walker when there is an ongoing investigation? Shouldn't he say I'm not going to comment or speculate on the case or people's motives while this is being investigated?
Made your bed now lie in it | 10:48 p.m. June 25, 2008
It's not as black-and-white as some people think," the lieutenant
governor said. "I am frustrated a little bit about it.
In other words, his information gathering process allowed him to be better informed than the voters, and he is frustrated that we didn't know what he refused to release.
I'm having a hard time being sympathetic about his frustration.
In other words, his information gathering process allowed him to be better informed than the voters, and he is frustrated that we didn't know what he refused to release.
I'm having a hard time being sympathetic about his frustration.
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