Deseret News | Club sports: Options, expenses both expand for girls

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Club sports: Options, expenses both expand for girls

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C1 | 7:24 a.m. June 24, 2008

I two sets of twin girls & a son and I can honestly say I love being a father to all of these little kids. I used to be the one in high school that didn't think our boys basketball team should have to share with the girls basketball team because they were girls. Needless to say, I have changed my tune as the father of four girls.

I feel so lucky to live in this country where girls have so many great opportunities. There are a lot of places in the world where girls are considered second class citizens. Sure, it's expensive, but at least there are options.

Solution | 7:42 a.m. June 24, 2008

Boycott all those expensive sports. Reading is free. Tree climbing is free (as long as it's not outlawed). Playing with your pals on the street is free.

I'm glad for the girls but please please watch out for the boys that they dont become America's 2nd class citizens.

A mom

coach | 8:31 a.m. June 24, 2008

If your child is genetically blessed and being on a club team is what they really want to do and not what you want them to do then possibly think about it. Otherwise think about you only get the chance to be a high school kid once and there is so much pride and memories that goes along with putting on a high school jersey and playing for and in front of those kids you associate with every day. Don't sell a kid down the road just for the word club. Colleges are looking for athletes period. They'll put you where they want you if you are athletic enough. And find you wherever you are at.

Comments continue below

Go Team | 8:38 a.m. June 24, 2008

And what happens to the potentially great athlete that can not come up with the funds to participate in an activity? What happens to the child that needs the scholarship to just attend school and can't afford to get on one of these "elite" teams? Our children need to be kids! Fun, laugh, play, no stress! They may have fun on these teams and enjoy the moment, but what kinds of pressure are they getting themselves into. Will that make them better parents? better employees? a better spouse? How many pro athletes have cracked under the pressure? What makes us think our young can deal with all that? Come on... let's not live in a fantasy world. Let our kids be kids! Teach them to work and love life. A 12 year old should not be worrying about college scholarships. They should be living a carefree experience as long as they can.

Reality check | 10:15 a.m. June 24, 2008

I have 3 daughters who have played on soccer club teams at the Premier level. It was their choice and they love it. They have had opportunities to play in soccer tournaments in Hawaii, San Diego, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Houston, Denver, and other locations. They have learned to work hard through participating on these teams. It is not easy. They have learned how to work together with a team. They all have 3.9 or better gpa's in school.

It does cost money and sometimes we're not able to travel with them to watch their tournaments. The actual coaching fees and season registration fees are reasonable. As noted in the article, the coaching fees are around $50 per month. We had our daughters take piano lessons which cost the same per month. They got 1/2 hour lesson once per week with piano. They got 3 - 90 min practices and 2 games per week with soccer. I would say soccer is the better value. Our teams have always organized fundraisers to help those who couldn't afford the costs. Generally, only the premier teams travel out of state so most teams do not have that expense.

dingo | 10:29 a.m. June 24, 2008

all this will end when a public high school openly discriminates and requires club participation to play at the high school level. while i am not a proponent of lawsuits i will welcome the day that a parent bankrupts a school district and has coaches fired for failure to provide equal opportunity and access to all student athletes and not just the club athletes.

i have witnessed many talented kids destroyed because their parents were under the misguided and pathetic delusion that they were raising the next superstar. the reality is about 1% of all athletes will become that superstar. my advice to parents is and always will be the same. let your child live their dream not yours, it is more rewarding and it is easier on the pocket book. besides if your child has the natural ability and the desire they will find a successful path. there is no amount of money and training can overcome a total lack of ability or natural talent.

Reality check | 10:34 a.m. June 24, 2008

Club soccer in Utah has many different levels. The top level is Premier, but there is also Division 1, 2, 3 and sometimes 4. Each has their own league of teams at their skill level for each age group i.e. U-12, U-13, U-14, etc. The classification U-12 stands for Under 12. Generally, only the Premier level teams travel out of state for tournaments but the other levels can compete in league play and tournaments inside the state so their expenses are greatly reduced. Many lower level teams have coaches that coach for free as well so the only expenses are for uniforms, cleats, a ball, and the $50 league registration fee.

Reality check | 10:40 a.m. June 24, 2008

One last thing ... this article seems to indicate that parents can just place their kid on a premier level team. Don't be misleaded .. these teams generally have yearly tryouts. There are only, at most, 18 positions on a soccer team. Many teams to do not fill all roster spots. Your child has to be dedicated, and talented to land one of these positions. My children started at the lower divisions before advancing to the Premier level.

apprento | 10:46 a.m. June 24, 2008

The sad thing is, most of these girls aren't going to get a scholarship in soccer. They would be a lot better off getting good grades like the girls in the article and getting academic scholarships.

The other thing this article doesn't really mention is that lots of times, club sports take away from highschool sanctioned sports. At my highschool, girls wouldn't run track because their club coach "wouldn't let [them]."

High School Coach | 10:49 a.m. June 24, 2008

By the sounds of it I am going to stop coaching High School ball and start coaching club. I made around $1200 for each sport I coached, softball and basketball ($2400 total for 7 Mo. of daily practices and weekly games), works out to be about $2 an hour, if that no matter how many kids are on the team. These club coaches are raking in the money to coach kids and the majority of them don't even know what they are doing. It is funny to hear some club coaches talk about the crazy things that they think would work in a real game situation (not tournament ball). 1/2 of them could not coach a high school team where they were not able to pick the best players from several cities. I am in the wrong line of coaching.

Reality check | 11:13 a.m. June 24, 2008

Re: High School Coach

We have been on both sides of the high school sports teams and club teams in soccer. While it's true that there are different level of coaches, in order to coach at the club level, the coaches have to be certified and take training to reach different levels. They start at the beginning "E" level and can advance to an "A" level. The coaches license levels are all published. You know what you're getting. It's been my experience that, in general, it's the high school coaches abilities that are lacking. Some schools will let any interested teacher coach who may not have any training at all. There are no licenses needed to coach high school.

current coach | 11:18 a.m. June 24, 2008

I have 2 sons and both will have played college baseball. We began taking them out of state to tournaments around 9 years of age. They loved the game and wanted to progress to the best of their abilities so we wanted them to compete against the very best. I realize that we are fortunate enough to have both of them go on to the next level but if they hadn't, the trips, places they've seen, experiences with their teammates, along with things like dedication and committment were just priceless.
Cooperstown, Florida, Oklahoman, Minnesota, etc. to see another part of the country and how those people lived was worth each dollar we spent. I agree with those that say it is expensive but I wouldn't trade those times for anything. My boys were also told they could quit anytime they wanted so there was no pressure from us. Coaches is rec leagues should be held in high esteem for the time they put in but most are just dad's without real background in the sport. My boys wanted to excel so we found the best coach's we could and got them involved. To be continued:

Adjustment | 11:27 a.m. June 24, 2008

What the article does not mention is the commitment, other than financial, required of parents. I am the parent of three boys who have played competition soccer. It has required that our family adjust to meet the demands of the soccer schedule. We usually have to schedule vacations and other outings around soccer. Many times our family vacation was in conjunction with a soccer tournament. Getting our kids to 6 games and 6 practices a week was usually a monumental task. However, as a parent, it has been worth the effort. My kids love the sport and they are all physically fit. They don't spend much time playing video games, watching t.v., or getting into trouble because they are bored. They have had to learn to manage their time because soccer is so time consuming. Fortunately for us, most of their coaches have been decent and possessed integrity (for other players that is sometimes not the case). For boys, there are very few opportunities to play college soccer, so my sons are in it for the love of the game. I think every kid needs a positive passion of some type, my kids picked soccer.

Wannabe | 2:39 p.m. June 24, 2008

I love sports, but was not good enough to make my high school teams. I was disappointed and still am today. I'm going to make sure my kids aren't disappointed by having them practice every day til they hate me. They'll learn to love me later for it.

Dance Anyone? | 3:37 p.m. June 24, 2008

Of course another option is dance. My two daughters, both athletic, chose ballet/jazz dance. They competed on private dance teams and school dance teams throughout junior high and high school. The private teams practice 20+ hours a week, 50 weeks a year. My monthly dance bill was several hundred dollars just for the team lessons/practice. Then add fees for costumesï¿½each dance has a different costumeï¿½and travel expenses to competitionsï¿½New York, Orlando, Las Vegas, etc. The total expense, or investment, was several thousand dollars a year. They loved it and they learned wonderful lifeï¿½s lessons about commitment, dedication, teamwork, and competition. Now they compete at the collegiate level.

Softball Dad | 3:51 p.m. June 24, 2008

My 2 girls love playing softball. They would probably hate me forever if I didn't let them play accelerated softball. Both are very good. One has a softball scholarship and the other will get one. She is already being recruited as a sophomore. We didn't do this so they could get scholarships or because I was a failure at sports when I was young. We do it because they want to. Why do all of you think you know what is best for everyone else?

Girls sports | 4:11 p.m. June 24, 2008

I have a daughter who has played soccer (Premier) and basketball (Super League) at a very high level both in state and at regional events around the country. The joy I get out of watching her excell at what she wants to be doing is unmatched and do not have a problem paying top dollar for her to be a part of these programs. The confidence she has not only on the floor or field but in life that I believe has been helped by her being a part of competitive sports. It has been a great ride and hope it continues for many more years.

sports mom | 4:17 p.m. June 24, 2008

if you have a athletic child after a while get bored and don't get better unless they play with better competition. IT is well worth it if they truely love the sport. We have still been able to do two competitive sports and still have the love of playing

From a "kid" | 4:20 p.m. June 24, 2008

I'm 19 years old now, but starting when i was 13 i entered into competitive soccer. I played on a club theam that cost my parents thousands and thousands each year just so i could play a game. Looking back at it, here are a few suggestions to parents.
First off, let the kid chose what he/she wants to do. Yes, you can seek out the offers and whatnot, but let him/her make the final decission.
Secondly (assuming they enter into sports) always leave the door open to leave. My dad was great at this, whenever i got down he would just say "well, do you want to continue doing this. It is only a game, and you dont have to do it."
Thirdly (and VERY IMPORTANT) dont tell your kids about the financial struggles that come with their choice. I remember my parents telling me how my soccer was not allowing our family to travel as much as before, and i felt like i had done them wrong by playing. Tell them the consequences of playing, but never make it seem like the sport is taking anything away from the family. Be honest with them.

From a "kid" part 2 | 4:25 p.m. June 24, 2008

4th on my list: be supportive. make it to as many, if not all the games your child plays in. Nothing was more rewarding then celebrating with my family, and nothing was more comforting then sulking with their support.
5th: If your kid wants to play in college, help them seek out the scholarships, but make sure they do the bulk of the work. Have your child write the letters, make a film, get a profile, etc. Help them along the way, but dont just do it for them. Teach them that you have to "earn" it, it wont just come.
6th, Always be positive with them. Constructive criticism is good, but also remember you ARE NOT THE COACH. let the coaches get on the players, you just support them and make suer they are happy.
7th, as cheesy as this sounds it really is nice, tell your kids you love them before and after games. Give them a hug or whatever it is you do. Make sure they know you love them.
Club and high school sports can be expensive, yes, but very rewarding. If your kid wants to do it, dont be the bad guy that says no

Seriously Insane Soccer Dad | 4:31 p.m. June 24, 2008

Yeah, my daughter's premiere soccer team went to Hawaii for the regional tournament...cost for my daughter, me and my wife? $5,500.00. We spent over $5,000.00 last year on soccer for her teams alone (she played on two age rosters within the same club). BUT we also spent almost as much for one daughter's Cello lessons and trips, and about the same amount for another daughters Debate tournaments and camps. Is it worth it? Don't know yet, but they work hard of their own initiative...and since we can afford it, we support them in this way. TIME is really the biggest expense!

From a "kid" part 3 | 4:33 p.m. June 24, 2008

it paid off for me. I can look at soccer, and the years i have had with it, and see the repsonsibility, time management, honesty (somewhat), etc. that i took from the beautiful game. I ended up receiving a scholarship to play, i am very happy with it, and love the game still.
oh, and one last thing that parents should always remember. ACADEMICS COME FIRST!!! i can count numerous kids i knew that had the talent to play at some of the top programs in the nation, but because they were not as talented in the classroom they did not receive the reward.
always always always make sure that ACADEMICS COME FIRST!

busy parent | 5:44 p.m. June 24, 2008

I have son that plays competitive soccer and basketball. They have taught him a lot. They have taught him leadership, getting along with others, how to deal with disappointment, and helping others. It also has gave him a chance to travel. As a nineth grader this last year he was able to make the JV basketball and soccer team which he loved and he wouldn't have been able to do this without this great training of coaches and playing in competitive games.

Real shame | 9:54 p.m. June 24, 2008

Kids from families who cannot afford all of this offseason stuff end up not having the chance to play high schools sports. Parents are now buying a spot on teams for their children, and often the most talented never get a chance because they can't pay for what really is required offseason participation by high school coaches.

all about money | 1:05 p.m. June 27, 2008

I have had 2 daughters play both volleyball and soccer at the Premier level. Both sports are REALLY expensive but I would have to say soccer is the most expensive. One of the reasons soccer is so much is because it is year round and second if you are a Utah County resident there are NO UTAH COUNTY club teams at the Premier level. You have to travel to Salt Lake 3-4 times per week at $4 per gallon of gas!!! The experience is good and bad I guess for girls. If the girl is LDS then say good-bye to the young womens program + EFY. No time for either especially the older your daughter gets. Is it worth it?? No, I would say probably not overall but what can you do? If your girls have talent you can't hold them back. I wish sports in general would be de-emphasized in high school and college for girls but I am afraid that trend is going in the opposite direction. My daughters are both very skilled athletes (especially my youngest) so I just hope in the end something good comes from all this!!!

If I could do it over ... | 1:15 p.m. June 27, 2008

If I could do it over I would steer my daughters away from expensive, time consuming sports like soccer, basketball or volleyball and push them toward track and field or swimming. If your daughter is an athlete then she can play any sport and track is SO great for several reasons....
1. It is more individual
2. It is VERY inexpensive both time and money compared to the other big three girls sports.
3. It allows for a life outside of sports.
4. You can still get a scholarship in college

Swimming is more expensive but I think is still quite reasonable compared to the other big three.

oh well, hind site is always 20-20 I guess.

Sports out of control | 1:34 p.m. June 27, 2008

From a dad who has put all his sons through club and high school baseball and all his daughters through club and high school volley ball and soccer I can honestly say that SPORTS is out of control in our society! I played college baseball for Utah Valley State College and my older brother played for BYU so ours is a very athletic family. I have watched the escalation of club sports and how they literally consume our kids now-a-days year round. There is NO time off, period! Try to take time off and you lose your spot on the team because there is always some other desperate parent trying to cram their kids into the next level and will pay ANY amount to do it. If you are LDS then say good-bye to scouts and young women. Say good-bye to EFY and youth conferences. Our kids are becoming products of the sports - system and are missing the other VERY important experiences that will ultimately create for them the foundation for life. BALANCE is never mentioned anymore when your kids get swept into the world of athletic clubs!

Utah County has Premier club | 3:45 p.m. June 27, 2008

Celtic Storm is a premier level club in Utah county with one state champion last year, 2 finalists and numerous semi-finalists. In addition, the last four years Celtic Storm has sent almost all of their Premier team players on to the college level as well as some of their select team players. Many of them are currenlty starting on their collegiate teams - Katie Larkin is playing with the U23 national team and Tamika Wilson was the Mountain West Conference player of the year at Wyoming. Celtic Storm also costs less than other clubs. While other clubs may have more state champions Celtic Storm has placed more players at the collegiate level. Other clubs preach 100% placement in college when it is a known fact that is not true.

re: If I could do it over ... | 3:52 p.m. June 27, 2008

Swimming is less time consuming and cheaper -- are you kidding? Swimmers practice in the morning and afternoon almost everyday and costs $90 - $200 per month for training. Then their are meet fees, etc.

Sorry Celtic | 5:35 p.m. June 27, 2008

You don't even want to compare the scholarships Avalanche has placed in colleges across this country. I'm talking quality D-1 . Penn State, Portland, Santa Clara, Pepperdine, SDSU, BYU, Utah, Utah State, UNLV, Stanford, Colorado, USC, with many more to come. Avalanche has more national team players than any other club period. Including an alumni that just won the NCAA for USC. Please don't talk about how Celtic Storm has more scholarships unless your talking about Salt Lake community. And your right Celtic doesn't win many state titles.

Celtic is Premier | 6:46 p.m. June 27, 2008

What Avalanche player currently plays for Stanford? - they have a student there but not an actual college player. I never claimed that Celtic Storm was the best club in the state but the club has placed players in college and is among the top clubs in the state. As far as college players Celtic Storm has over 60 in the past 4 years and at schools such as Washington, Gonzaga, BYU, Utah, New Mexico, Santa Clara, etc. and some at lesser schools like Dixie State and BYU-Hawaii (None at Salt Lake Community College). According to the Avalanche Website, Avalanche has about 60 college players some playing at D-1 schools like USC, BYU, Portland etc. but others at powerhouses like Angelo State, Southern Virginia, etc. I was just stating facts and the facts are Celtic Storm is a Premier club and it is in Utah County. It is in the same category with Avalanche, Sparta, LaRoca, etc. None of these clubs has placed 100% of their players in college as Avalanche claims they have but are all Premier level clubs with top teams in most age groups.

from another slc club | 11:16 p.m. June 27, 2008

Let it be known... Avalanche directors, coaches and trainers lie to parents about college scholarships to get them to join their club... glad to see many people catching on ... good luck to all clubs other than avalanche

the truth! | 12:31 a.m. June 28, 2008

name me any club with the quality scholarships that Avalanche players get to real soccer schools. If your good enough you'll get a scholarship if not you won't. Avalanche has produced more college All Americans than any other club, more national team players, the U-18 team headed to college this year have 100% scholarship offers and has beaten every club team in the state easily. They just beat mighty Celtic Storm last week 7-1. That's like 70-10 in a football game. Don't talk smack if you can't back it up. If I'm a college coach offering scholarships what team am I going to watch duh!.

Re:from another slc club | 12:33 a.m. June 28, 2008

So do you think your kid just has to show up and they get a scholarship. If you haven't figured it out yet it's not the club it's the player. If your dumb enough to think all you have to do is join a club and you get a scholarship you deserve what you get.

Re. the truth | 12:40 p.m. June 28, 2008

Avalanche has a few players at top quality schools but for the most part (look at the website) they are at schools like Baron College, Angelo State, Western Wyoming Community College. By the way the mighty Celtic Storm team you are referring to is 1 team not the entire club. The facts are Celtic Storm has more players playing college soccer. I'm not talking smack all I am doing is stating the facts. The Avlanche camp flyer states that they have placed 68 out of 68 players in college soccer (Alyssa Anglin is not playing college soccer so there goes the supposed 100%, nor is Jamie Mayvety, etc.) which is not true - no club has 100% placement rate it is impossible. A team may have it but not the whole club. I agree the U18 team is an excellent team and they are all going to college but so is the whole Celtic Storm team and if you look at the colleges they are going to it is suprisingly similar - BYU, Utah State, etc. Only Keali and Fernandez will go to better schools. If I'm a college coach I will watch more than one team - duh.

LaRoca | 12:42 p.m. June 28, 2008

Avalanche better watch out because LaRoca won 3 state championships this year as did Avalanche. Parents are getting smarter - you don't have to pay tons of money, drive to Salt Lake, etc. to be on a good team. Players will also get seen by college coaches. You don't have to play for Avalanche their are other choices.

college all-american | 12:46 p.m. June 28, 2008

Katie Larkin is the only Utah player that made one of the three all-american teams last year and she is a Celtic Storm alum. No Avalanche player has been named All-American - all-West Region and freshmen all-american but not All-american and their is a difference.

Re;College All American | 1:14 p.m. June 28, 2008

Katie Larkin plays for BYU who can't get out of the first round of the NCAA to save their lives. They were beat badly this year and lost to Weber state in the first round two years ago!. Give me a break, If you want to compare player by player Avalanche to Celtic and what they have done lets do it. Yes Avalanche has a first team freshman all American this year and an NCAA Champion, something KL never did as a freshman and as far as an NCAA champion never will and in your own words there is a difference!.. The only people you can talk about in Celtic have been out of the club for 3 years. How bout something a little more recent. Avalanche won the Disney tournament, They have won college showcase, and 2 year's ago won every state title but one. What has Celtic done, I already know nothing!.

Re;Re; the truth | 1:28 p.m. June 28, 2008

Alyssa Anglin had a full ride to Uconn and turned it down when she was accepted into Stanford. It's not Avalanches fault she didn't take the scholarship. You keep saying the scholarshiops are similar
Penn State, Santa Clara former NCAA champions, Portland former NCAA Champions, Pepperdine, USC defending NCAA champions are not the same they are far better. Stop trying to claim Avalanche players that played one year for Celtic and had already recieved their scholarsips while playing for Avalanche. The bottom line is ya you can go to college but their is a big difference on where your going from Celtic to Avalance. Name me one true Celtic player that is at big time soccer school.

Your still not right | 2:11 p.m. June 28, 2008

Alyssa Anglin could have played college soccer I know but she didn't so therefore, Avalanche does not have 100%. Other clubs also have players that decide not to play college soccer and they don't count them as alumni playing in college. I doubt seriously that Alyssa Anglin was offered a full ride at Uconn when full rides are given very rarely - maybe with academic money but not athletic. I also wonder why someone that had a full ride offer at Uconn was taking a recruiting trip to South Carolina State pretty late in the game - and I know this is true because she went on the trip with a player that I know.

Missing the point | 2:28 p.m. June 28, 2008

By the way this whole stupid argument has gotten a little out of hand - The point was their is a Premier level club in Utah County, which means they have teams in the Premier division and competing for state cup championships - yes there are a few top players that have gone to top level programs but most players in Utah are not that good and playing for a club that works to promote their players regardless of the name of the club will get these girls playing college soccer. Utah has a lot of soccer talent and it gets old hearing about just Avalanche because there are good players at all of the clubs that have moved on to the collegiate level. The best thing that could happen to soccer in Utah is for more top clubs so that these teams have tougher competition in state so that when they go to Regionals they actually have a chance to win.

Pepperdine | 2:33 p.m. June 28, 2008

is not a top program

avalanche :( | 2:43 p.m. June 28, 2008

Take it from someonoe who has been there. My daughter played for Avalanche for multiple years and it couldn't have been a WORSE experience. Ya Avalanche get's SOME girls scholarships, but the leaders of that club are really about padding their own resumes. They will tell a College Coach anything to get a scholarship, and I have been told by several sources that their credibility is in the toliet because they build up a player to be something that their not. Also, the club doesn't care about girls. Some of the things that I have seen them do to young girls is amazing. Again, they are only about themselves. And don't even get me started on money. Truth is, if your good, you'll get a scholarship, you don't have to play for the Avalanche to get one. As a matter of fact, you end up a much better PERSON by playing for someone else when your not being coached by people who have a problem being truthful. They coach by fear not by example. They do nothing to make these girls better people. Bottom line, changing clubs was the best thing we ever did, and yes we got a scholarship!!!!

Re;avalanche | 4:04 p.m. June 28, 2008

You can hear the same thing from every club, there are Sparta girls trnafering to Avalanche and Avalanche girls transfering to Celtic or Sparta etc. The best players from each club rarely transfer. Are you saying college coaches are so stupid they can't tell if a player is good or not.
Much better person?, what a joke.

Like everything else | 4:08 p.m. June 28, 2008

The best team's are always the most hated! Go Avalanche

Actually.. | 5:11 p.m. June 28, 2008

2 years ago Avalanche won every state title but 3, NOT all but 1 and they have won less every year since. In 2008 they won 3 titles and so did LaRoca and I expect more from them and Sparta in the years to come.

re re from another club | 5:45 p.m. June 28, 2008

wasn't talking about how players perform once with a club... simply stating the fact that avalanche lies incessently about how they'll guarantee kids a scholarship and 100% placement as a marketing tool to atract players and parents who don't do their research. They openly lie about college placement and unfortunately people believe it... glad to see Sparta, La Roca coming on strong and not falling for the lies

betraying their players | 5:58 p.m. June 28, 2008

Funny how girls at these so called top schools avalanche is taking credit for (Santa Clara, Portland, Penn St) had such a great experience with avalanche that they had to find a new coach in the middle of the season and were denied a chance to compete in state cup and regionals as U17's by the very club they had trained for and were so loyal to for years... obviously those girls would leave avalanche

grateful soccer mom | 6:27 p.m. June 28, 2008

as a parent who knows, celtic storm actually has had several players who received college scholarships that were on fee waivers for the majority of expenses. At Storm it's not all about the money and providing a living for their coaches, instead its about helping the girls get the opportunity to play college. All I can say is Storm has fulfilled that promise in every way. I as a parent am so grateful for storm and their coaches for the opportunity they gave my daughter to get to college

Re; betraying their players | 11:37 p.m. June 28, 2008

Get your facts straight they failed to register for state cup it had nothing to do with Avalanche. Celtic couldn't wait to get those Avalanche players because they knew they were so much better than their own. As a matter of fact they cut several Celtic players that had been loyal to Celtic Storm all those years.

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