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LDS Church officials urge California members to support marriage amendment
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Dear "Marriage is about love.." | 10:30 p.m. June 23, 2008
Yes, my brother's wife deserved better, which is why is was foolish for the
LDS Church to suggest that gays should bet married to someone of the opposite
sex. It was selfish and ignorant of church leadership to ask gay people to marry
those of the opposite sex. My brother didn't leave his wife, by the way;
it was the other way around. My brother, though gay, wanted to stay married.
This was prior to his having a gay relationship and only during a time when his
wife knew he was gay. Would you have preferred that he live a lie? Isn't
living a lie in this situation truly selfish. You don't know what you are
talking about.
Everyone, both homosexual and heterosexual, deserves sexual pleasure, call it gratification if you wish. There is nothing wrong with it. It's problem if that's the sole focus, but that's not what I'm talking about. When my bro was married, he had no sexual pleasure, with the exception of the gay fantasies required to be intimate with his wife.
Imagine if you as a heterosexual was married to someone of the same sex. That's what is was like for my bro. Get it?
Everyone, both homosexual and heterosexual, deserves sexual pleasure, call it gratification if you wish. There is nothing wrong with it. It's problem if that's the sole focus, but that's not what I'm talking about. When my bro was married, he had no sexual pleasure, with the exception of the gay fantasies required to be intimate with his wife.
Imagine if you as a heterosexual was married to someone of the same sex. That's what is was like for my bro. Get it?
Real Fact | 10:35 p.m. June 23, 2008
Your calling a lesbian selfish because her family left the the LDS Church is
ridiculous. What is truly selfish and pathetic is that the LDS Church alienates
families from their gay children, effectively asking then to choose the Church
over their own children.
It would be best if more people left this evil church.
It would be best if more people left this evil church.
Comments continue below
Sexual Grati? | 10:34 p.m. June 23, 2008
"Why did he marry her if he didn't love her?" Your premise has
no basis, therefore your argument fails. Mormon men have married women they
didn't love - or at least one of them, as I'm proof. I'm sorry
to the woman I married for that and if we had produced children I'd be
sorry to them.
Re: Wrong | 10:35 p.m. June 23, 2008
"Sorry, you are wrong....You only demonstrate a profound degree of
ignorance when you assume that all gays see sexual gratification as the only way
to be happy."
Nice point but you contradict yourself with your next statement. You can't have it both ways. You claim gays don't "see sexual gratification as the only way to be happy" and then say "Heteros and gays, no matter what their beliefs, want sexual gratification."
"Get over it. There is nothing wrong with sexual gratification! It's a part of life. Heteros and gays, no matter what their beliefs, want sexual gratification. There is nothing wrong with sexual pleasure. Grow up."
You prove my point.
"My gay brother tried marriage with woman and had two kids. Such arrangements is truly destructive, and religion contributes to this destruction...How did that work out?"
My father tried marriage with a woman and had three sons and you want me to believe that was a mistake and that I'm a mistake? I know from personal experience how destructive homosexuality is.
"You truly an irrational creature."
I don't know how to respond to this but I will not let you call me an "irrational creature" because I disagree with you.
Nice point but you contradict yourself with your next statement. You can't have it both ways. You claim gays don't "see sexual gratification as the only way to be happy" and then say "Heteros and gays, no matter what their beliefs, want sexual gratification."
"Get over it. There is nothing wrong with sexual gratification! It's a part of life. Heteros and gays, no matter what their beliefs, want sexual gratification. There is nothing wrong with sexual pleasure. Grow up."
You prove my point.
"My gay brother tried marriage with woman and had two kids. Such arrangements is truly destructive, and religion contributes to this destruction...How did that work out?"
My father tried marriage with a woman and had three sons and you want me to believe that was a mistake and that I'm a mistake? I know from personal experience how destructive homosexuality is.
"You truly an irrational creature."
I don't know how to respond to this but I will not let you call me an "irrational creature" because I disagree with you.
Anonymous | 10:35 p.m. June 23, 2008
To all of you who seem to want to defend the Church by insisting that
homosexuality is about lust and nothing more, I share this thought from the
First Presidency, taken from their 2007 pamphlet "God Loveth His
Children":
"Same-gender attractions include deep emotional, social, and physical feelings."
"Same-gender attractions include deep emotional, social, and physical feelings."
Re:Evil good and good evil 8:51 | 10:38 p.m. June 23, 2008
If I understand, your argument then goes something like this:
1. We cannot rely on the Bible for spiritual guidance
2. The God of the Bible is not real
3. Homosexuality although condemned in the Bible is really appropriate
My problem with this argument is that the God I read about in the Bible is certainly real though often He is misquoted, misunderstood, or taken out of context. If we truly want to know His will he will make it known to us. Unfortunately, we often have in mind what we want to be the answer to be and aren't really looking for His will.
1. We cannot rely on the Bible for spiritual guidance
2. The God of the Bible is not real
3. Homosexuality although condemned in the Bible is really appropriate
My problem with this argument is that the God I read about in the Bible is certainly real though often He is misquoted, misunderstood, or taken out of context. If we truly want to know His will he will make it known to us. Unfortunately, we often have in mind what we want to be the answer to be and aren't really looking for His will.
Fiction | 10:40 p.m. June 23, 2008
Dear "Fact":
Those 25 people were free to choose whether or not they left the Church, and they chose to do so. Ever hear of agency? Why is it the lesbian's fault?
Those 25 people were free to choose whether or not they left the Church, and they chose to do so. Ever hear of agency? Why is it the lesbian's fault?
sally ann | 10:40 p.m. June 23, 2008
Why do gay activists think they have the right to tell me what I should believe.
I don't have to listen to my religious leaders--I CHOOSE to listen and
follow their advice.
Last week I saw two 80+ years old women marrying each other down in California. It was a sickening sight and I flipped the channel. We shouldn't be subjected to such ugliness.
Last week I saw two 80+ years old women marrying each other down in California. It was a sickening sight and I flipped the channel. We shouldn't be subjected to such ugliness.
Forget love! We want sex... | 10:40 p.m. June 23, 2008
Fact,
"A once very active family in the Church one member even a Bishop. Bishops daughter reports that she is gay. Due to the Church's stand on the issue this one selfhish lesbian daughter has caused more than 25 individuals leaving the Church becoming a menace to society."
Don't you know that she's "gay" and that she can't be happy without being with a woman? Marrying a man would be awful since love has no part. She is saying that her mother and father married to get sexual gratification and that she needs to be with a woman to have sexual gratification therefore it is okay.
Never mind that that a woman or man whose part of a homosexual relationship is part of that relationship because they provide sexual gratification to someone else. Let me ask this question: If I offered to have my daughter marry a homosexual would he be willing to marry her, be her friend, companion, love her and help her rear their children or refuse because he wants male parts?
Will a husband who is married for 10 years and has 3 children divorce his wife and leave his children because he needs male parts?
"A once very active family in the Church one member even a Bishop. Bishops daughter reports that she is gay. Due to the Church's stand on the issue this one selfhish lesbian daughter has caused more than 25 individuals leaving the Church becoming a menace to society."
Don't you know that she's "gay" and that she can't be happy without being with a woman? Marrying a man would be awful since love has no part. She is saying that her mother and father married to get sexual gratification and that she needs to be with a woman to have sexual gratification therefore it is okay.
Never mind that that a woman or man whose part of a homosexual relationship is part of that relationship because they provide sexual gratification to someone else. Let me ask this question: If I offered to have my daughter marry a homosexual would he be willing to marry her, be her friend, companion, love her and help her rear their children or refuse because he wants male parts?
Will a husband who is married for 10 years and has 3 children divorce his wife and leave his children because he needs male parts?
Dear Marriage debased to sexual | 10:43 p.m. June 23, 2008
My gay brother married a woman because he was living a lie, which was encouraged
by the LDS Church. He actually did love her, but as a friend loves another
friend. You do know the difference between loving a friend and loving your
spouse, don't you?
If you feel like a sex object because your spouse find you attractive, I suggest you get some therapy. There is nothing wrong with feeling sexual attraction toward your spouses body. It's healthy.
If you feel like a sex object because your spouse find you attractive, I suggest you get some therapy. There is nothing wrong with feeling sexual attraction toward your spouses body. It's healthy.
RE: lacatholic | 10:44 p.m. June 23, 2008
Yes, the two churches are working together now. Remember, the LDS Church did not
officially comment on the baptism issue; they just let the Catholics do their
thing as it was an internal letter. Some LDS members were mad and hateful about
it, which was the wrong way to react � though natural,
because we're human. (I'm LDS, and for the record I wasn't
mad.)
This is an issue on which both churches agree, and they will act accordingly. It's good they can both leave the baptism issue where it is and work together for a common cause without letting other issues be a wedge.
This is an issue on which both churches agree, and they will act accordingly. It's good they can both leave the baptism issue where it is and work together for a common cause without letting other issues be a wedge.
To all the people posting about homosexuality being no different from
pedophilia, you're completely wrong and only demonstrating your inability
to think for your selves.
In pedophilia, the child is to young to be able to give any kind of consent to the activity being forced upon them, to young to understand what is happening, along with a host of other tremendous problems with the sick act.
NONE of those problems occur with homosexuality between CONSENTING ADULTS.
Get it? Pedophilia: no consent of one of the parties. Gay marriage: complete consent of both parties.
If you want to oppose gay marriage, try to do it with something not quite so obviously false.
In pedophilia, the child is to young to be able to give any kind of consent to the activity being forced upon them, to young to understand what is happening, along with a host of other tremendous problems with the sick act.
NONE of those problems occur with homosexuality between CONSENTING ADULTS.
Get it? Pedophilia: no consent of one of the parties. Gay marriage: complete consent of both parties.
If you want to oppose gay marriage, try to do it with something not quite so obviously false.
Dear Against Gay Marriage | 10:44 p.m. June 23, 2008
The Bible also says you should kill your children for disobedience. Since
I'm sure you ignore the passage that has God telling parents to kill their
children for disobedience, you should have a problem with letting go the passage
that condemns homosexuality.
The Bible is the worst source for morality. Burn it.
The Bible is the worst source for morality. Burn it.
Re: Sodom | 10:45 p.m. June 23, 2008
You forget the rest of the story. The men demanded of Lot that he send out the
two strangers so that they could know them. That phrase in the Bible means to
have sexual relations. IE he knew his wife and she begat a son. Lot never made
good on his offer to let the men have his daughters because the two angles
intervened and blinded the mob.
perhaps it was love | 10:45 p.m. June 23, 2008
@Fact 10:16
I'm sorry that you define a family standing together, supporting one of their own, and remaining a safe and secure haven for each of their children as being the work of a menace to society. Sounds to me like their actions were wrought by love.
I'm sorry that you define a family standing together, supporting one of their own, and remaining a safe and secure haven for each of their children as being the work of a menace to society. Sounds to me like their actions were wrought by love.
to relocation proponents | 10:48 p.m. June 23, 2008
Do you serve towels with your foaming spittle?
Lynn | 10:51 p.m. June 23, 2008
Taylormaid: What are you teaching your children? If you are a Latter-day Saint,
as you say you are, then you should be teaching them the Law of Chastity, and
the Proclamation on the Family, and not encourage them to accept sinful behavior
as right. This has nothing to do with diversity. This is a minority demanding
that the Church go against the teachings of scripture and of living Prophets,
and accept their sinful lifestyle! What side are you on?
Dear Love her but need his male | 10:54 p.m. June 23, 2008
Quote me the passage in the bible that explains that Lot knew the men
wouldn't have sexual relations with his daughters etc. It's pure
invention.
Please try to explain why God in the Bible condones having fathers sell their daughters into slavery. Please explain why God tells parents to kill their children for disobedience. If there is one thing is as truly destructive to society, it's religion, and the Bible is rich material for evil men to do evil things in the name of an evil God. It's too bad such people aren't rational enough to realize it's a work of ugly fiction.
Speaking of sexual gratification, the Bible is full of characters whose life was all about sexual gratification. God was okay with men having multiple wives, and yes, concubines, basically sex slaves to men. Such concubines had no true freedom. It was an evil practice, condoned by God (it's a good thing the Bible is part fiction.)
Please try to explain why God in the Bible condones having fathers sell their daughters into slavery. Please explain why God tells parents to kill their children for disobedience. If there is one thing is as truly destructive to society, it's religion, and the Bible is rich material for evil men to do evil things in the name of an evil God. It's too bad such people aren't rational enough to realize it's a work of ugly fiction.
Speaking of sexual gratification, the Bible is full of characters whose life was all about sexual gratification. God was okay with men having multiple wives, and yes, concubines, basically sex slaves to men. Such concubines had no true freedom. It was an evil practice, condoned by God (it's a good thing the Bible is part fiction.)
Dear "Exposed" | 10:55 p.m. June 23, 2008
Sigh. Not these arguments AGAIN.
1. There are likely MANY causes of homosexuality.
2. Let's please remember that pedophilia involves the statutory rape of those who cannot legally consent to sex. Two consenting adults is quite another matter.
1. There are likely MANY causes of homosexuality.
2. Let's please remember that pedophilia involves the statutory rape of those who cannot legally consent to sex. Two consenting adults is quite another matter.
to "...need his male parts" | 10:56 p.m. June 23, 2008
Why do angels need protecting?
Why do think the daughters were not ravished?
God then blessed Lot by having his daughters have relations with him. Incest as moral. Nice, but my morality decries such.
Your last paragraph is very confusing. Take out sex and why would men and women marry? By what you suggest children are created some way other than biologically. Or? What are you trying to say here? Most children wouldn't be raised with gay parents. As soon as children understand reproduction they're going to know there was some sex involved...or are you suggesting men and women only copulate to reproduce and are not enjoying the act nor satisfying their desire? Isn't desire what drives adults of the species to take on nurturing the next generation in the first place? Truly, what is your meaning?
Why do think the daughters were not ravished?
God then blessed Lot by having his daughters have relations with him. Incest as moral. Nice, but my morality decries such.
Your last paragraph is very confusing. Take out sex and why would men and women marry? By what you suggest children are created some way other than biologically. Or? What are you trying to say here? Most children wouldn't be raised with gay parents. As soon as children understand reproduction they're going to know there was some sex involved...or are you suggesting men and women only copulate to reproduce and are not enjoying the act nor satisfying their desire? Isn't desire what drives adults of the species to take on nurturing the next generation in the first place? Truly, what is your meaning?
STOP SMOKER MARRIAGE!!! | 10:55 p.m. June 23, 2008
Hey, if its about protecting the children, why not go out and lobby or start a
petition to prevent smokers from getting married. Children of smokers are twice
as likely to pick up that "lifestyle choice" that kills 400,000
American every day.
For the sake of the children, prevent smokers from getting married!!!
"Hi, I'm a conservative Christian and MY family values start in YOUR bedroom"
For the sake of the children, prevent smokers from getting married!!!
"Hi, I'm a conservative Christian and MY family values start in YOUR bedroom"
Blah Blah | 10:57 p.m. June 23, 2008
Those who say, "homosexuality is destructive blah blah" are really not
thinking for themselves, are really not using common sense and reason. They
simply regurgitating what others tell them. None of them can make rational
argument to prove that homosexuality is destructive. If they actually got to
know homosexuals, which they refuse to do, they would actually learn that people
like my brother are not so different from them.
I guess ignorance is easier for folks who refuse to think for themselves.
I guess ignorance is easier for folks who refuse to think for themselves.
Why things are wrong | 11:02 p.m. June 23, 2008
I can show that killing someone is wrong in many ways--causing harm to another
human being, taking away their right to life, society is better if we don't
kill each other.
I can show that stealing is wrong. Again, causing objective harm to another, infringing on their rights, harming society.
I can show that lying is wrong. We need to be able to trust each other for a well functioning society, fraud harms other people.
Please explain HOW gay marriage is wrong and no, "The church says so" does not even attempt to answer that question.
I can show that stealing is wrong. Again, causing objective harm to another, infringing on their rights, harming society.
I can show that lying is wrong. We need to be able to trust each other for a well functioning society, fraud harms other people.
Please explain HOW gay marriage is wrong and no, "The church says so" does not even attempt to answer that question.
Anonymous | 11:05 p.m. June 23, 2008
I will leave the chapel as that letter is presented. It has no place in a
Mormon
worship service. I urge all California LDS to stand and walk with me. When will
the brethren truly accept all of our members? Where is the light of Christ?
Havn't we been through this before?
worship service. I urge all California LDS to stand and walk with me. When will
the brethren truly accept all of our members? Where is the light of Christ?
Havn't we been through this before?
why is it... | 11:07 p.m. June 23, 2008
Why does the god of the old testament continually command immoral behavior from
his chosen - sacrifice your child, stone your children, ethnically cleanse the
lands you invade, offer your daughters to lustful predators, have your daughters
sleep with you, cheat your brother out of his inheritance through manipulation,
have many wives then turn out your firstborn son when a better one comes
along?
Why do people take counsel from this god? Why do people take these positions as being moral?
I think these and many other examples prove the point that moral behavior does not arise from belief in god.
Why do people take counsel from this god? Why do people take these positions as being moral?
I think these and many other examples prove the point that moral behavior does not arise from belief in god.
If there is no LOVE... | 11:07 p.m. June 23, 2008
When the sex gets old, the marriage is over because there was never any real
love evolved. You cannot base a marriage on total sex. I believe Sex is
important, but nonetheless is a small part of a marriage. Some people seem to
think that SEX is love and that it is all that is needed in a relationship. I
hate to break your corrupt bubbles, but you are wrong!!!!!...SEX is not Love.
Only an emotion and a desire to create more humans. Homosexuals cannot create
more humans.
hasten the day | 11:07 p.m. June 23, 2008
I'm rather looking forward to y'all who feel this issue proves the end
is near having your second coming and being lifted up, caught away, or whatever.
It will be a relief to the rest of us.
Dear Re:Evil good and good evil | 11:09 p.m. June 23, 2008
I am not talking about misquotes, misunderstood or passages taken out of
context. The real problem is that religious folks don't read the Bible, or
rather, only read the passages as instructed by their leaders, which
demonstrates a profound lack of independent thinking.
The Bible without question has God telling parents to kill their children for disobedience, and the Bible does, in fact, has God telling fathers they can sell their daughters into slavery. There is no misinterpretation involved and there is not context that would change the meaning of those passages.
If you want to pick and choose, ignoring this passages and accepting others, at least be intellectually honest about it. You do value honesty, don't you?
My problem with this argument is that the God I read about in the Bible is certainly real though often He is misquoted, misunderstood, or taken out of context. If we truly want to know His will he will make it known to us. Unfortunately, we often have in mind what we want to be the answer to be and aren't really looking for His will.
The Bible without question has God telling parents to kill their children for disobedience, and the Bible does, in fact, has God telling fathers they can sell their daughters into slavery. There is no misinterpretation involved and there is not context that would change the meaning of those passages.
If you want to pick and choose, ignoring this passages and accepting others, at least be intellectually honest about it. You do value honesty, don't you?
My problem with this argument is that the God I read about in the Bible is certainly real though often He is misquoted, misunderstood, or taken out of context. If we truly want to know His will he will make it known to us. Unfortunately, we often have in mind what we want to be the answer to be and aren't really looking for His will.
Good on ya, DN | 11:09 p.m. June 23, 2008
Articles such as this that inspire so much commenting will save the Deseret News
as they will have great numbers of hits to show advertisers when wooing the
revenue.
Re: Blah Blah | 11:11 p.m. June 23, 2008
"Those who say, "homosexuality is destructive blah blah" are
really not thinking for themselves, are really not using common sense and
reason. They simply regurgitating what others tell them."
I'm not regurgitating what others tell me instead I base my opinion on my own personal experiences and you demonstrate arrogance to suggest that those who believe that homosexuality is destructive are not using common sense. Take out my personal experience and common sense would tell me that homosexuality is destructive.
"None of them can make rational argument to prove that homosexuality is destructive. If they actually got to know homosexuals, which they refuse to do, they would actually learn that people like my brother are not so different from them."
How dare you! I have known homosexuals including my father's boyfriends so I think I can say in the 14 years that I lived with him that I know more gay people then you do and they preyed on my father as much as he preyed on us.
"I guess ignorance is easier for folks who refuse to think for themselves."
I could respond by saying Blah Blah but unlike you I won't respond to jerks the same way.
I'm not regurgitating what others tell me instead I base my opinion on my own personal experiences and you demonstrate arrogance to suggest that those who believe that homosexuality is destructive are not using common sense. Take out my personal experience and common sense would tell me that homosexuality is destructive.
"None of them can make rational argument to prove that homosexuality is destructive. If they actually got to know homosexuals, which they refuse to do, they would actually learn that people like my brother are not so different from them."
How dare you! I have known homosexuals including my father's boyfriends so I think I can say in the 14 years that I lived with him that I know more gay people then you do and they preyed on my father as much as he preyed on us.
"I guess ignorance is easier for folks who refuse to think for themselves."
I could respond by saying Blah Blah but unlike you I won't respond to jerks the same way.
Reality time | 11:14 p.m. June 23, 2008
People try and say allowing homosexual marriage will lead to legalizing
pedophilia in a great slippery slope fallacy.
But guess what? We ALREADY let pedophiles get married. We let alcoholics get married. We let child and spousal abusers get married. We let convicted felons get married, including murders.
Please explain to me how a homosexual couple could POSSIBLY be a bigger threat than any of the above marriage examples which NO ONE on the religious right seems to have any objection (we NEVER hear about any church encouraging making THOSE marriages illegal).
But guess what? We ALREADY let pedophiles get married. We let alcoholics get married. We let child and spousal abusers get married. We let convicted felons get married, including murders.
Please explain to me how a homosexual couple could POSSIBLY be a bigger threat than any of the above marriage examples which NO ONE on the religious right seems to have any objection (we NEVER hear about any church encouraging making THOSE marriages illegal).
re:sally ann | 11:16 p.m. June 23, 2008
"Why do gay activists think they have the right to tell me what I should
believe. I don't have to listen to my religious leaders--I CHOOSE to listen
and follow their advice."
Why do you care to whom I am married? I CHOOSE whom to marry...
Why do you care to whom I am married? I CHOOSE whom to marry...
dcc | 11:20 p.m. June 23, 2008
So the LDS church DOES tell it's members how to vote.
wrz | 11:21 p.m. June 23, 2008
***VOR 1:59 p.m. June 23 - The LDS Church, as well as all Churches, should mind
their own business and not try to impose their will on others.***
They are not imposing their will. We are dealing with a morals issue... which is all church's bailiwick.
***Seriously, can anybody come up with a halfway intelligent argument on who this would affect the LDS Church or it's members?***
You are naive about what the US legal system can do. If same sex marriage becomes the law of the land, institutions that preform marriages cannot turn away requests for marriage of gays and lesbians. That (in my view) would include marriages performed in the LDS temples.
They are not imposing their will. We are dealing with a morals issue... which is all church's bailiwick.
***Seriously, can anybody come up with a halfway intelligent argument on who this would affect the LDS Church or it's members?***
You are naive about what the US legal system can do. If same sex marriage becomes the law of the land, institutions that preform marriages cannot turn away requests for marriage of gays and lesbians. That (in my view) would include marriages performed in the LDS temples.
re: If there is no LOVE | 11:24 p.m. June 23, 2008
Sex is more than just "emotion and a desire to create more humans".
Its INSTINCT. If your description were all it was, then people shouldn't
engage in foreplay. After all, oral sex, petting and other
'sex-extras' "cannot create more humans".
re: if there is no love | 11:25 p.m. June 23, 2008
You are right, which is why there is SUCH a freaking high divorce rate
nowadays...but if you are implying that homosexuals are incapable of loving
relationships you are WRONG! The First Presidency themselves in their new
pamphlet says something the effect that these attractions involve "deep
emotional, physical, and social feelings" homosexual people can love just
as much as heterosexuals... Why else would anyone stay together and be tormented
by people like you? Their attractions and love are NOT A CHOICE, but they DO
LOVE, so open mouth and insert foot.
oh! | 11:23 p.m. June 23, 2008
Finally, an intelligent explanation for the high rate of divorce within and
without church solemnized marriages: "when the sex gets old, the marriage
is over because there was never any real love evolved [sic]."
To: Re: Blah Blah @ 11:11 | 11:32 p.m. June 23, 2008
I am sorry that we have common ground. You were preyed upon by your father who
was gay. I was preyed upon by my father and both grandfathers and an uncle, all
straight. I feel your pain. Betrayal by trusted family members is a difficult
pain to overcome. Know they were wrong for preying on children. There of some
people of all persuasions who choose evil works.
I finally had to decide this life is a small moment and I won't let my moment be defined by the acts of others. My best wishes to you to be able to overcome and create a life that brings you great joy. Hele on!
I finally had to decide this life is a small moment and I won't let my moment be defined by the acts of others. My best wishes to you to be able to overcome and create a life that brings you great joy. Hele on!
why things are wrong? | 11:38 p.m. June 23, 2008
First of all the plumbing doesn't work the way Gay people are rigging it
up? The two oposite (male and female) are ment to procreate. Two gay men can
not do this, two gay woman can not do this. Wo when it doesn't work, they
adopt and when they rais a child in their beliefs, it is confusing, therefore it
is harmful and wrong. Again, when you have an open mind, sometimes your brain
falls out.
Shauna | 11:41 p.m. June 23, 2008
As active LDS members living in CA, my husband and I campaigned for Proposition
22 in 2000. We went knocking on doors to inform people about the issue and
urged them to vote in favor of the proposition. We put signs up around the city
in support of the prop. When it passed with a CLEAR MAJORITY the voice of the
people had spoken. To have just a few judges overturn the will of the people in
CA is disgusting. I don't question the stand the LDS church is taking...I
question our legal system.
Darin | 11:46 p.m. June 23, 2008
Sure, the LDS church has every right to stake its position and encourage its
members to vote a certain way. But the Church also tells its members to vote the
way of their own consciences. I only hope that fellow members of the LDS church
in California will do the latter, because I really want to believe that we
aren't so stupid as to buy the argument that the abolition of gay marriage
helps anyone. It doesn't. It only hurts some, and I want no part of it.
Gay people do not choose their sexual orientation any more than heterosexuals do. Is this so hard to understand through a little introspection? The desire to partner is a very common one, and I support everyone's right to acknowledge a life partner.
I will not be part of this pig-headed assault on my brothers and sisters. My own conscience, my own moral compass tells me when official Church statements are right and when they are wrong. My moral compass tells me that the Church's position on this matter is sadly far off.
Gay people do not choose their sexual orientation any more than heterosexuals do. Is this so hard to understand through a little introspection? The desire to partner is a very common one, and I support everyone's right to acknowledge a life partner.
I will not be part of this pig-headed assault on my brothers and sisters. My own conscience, my own moral compass tells me when official Church statements are right and when they are wrong. My moral compass tells me that the Church's position on this matter is sadly far off.
Thankfully | 11:50 p.m. June 23, 2008
Yea! that we still live in a land where we can all express our opinions without
fear of being hauled out the door by the thought police. Yea! that we still
live in a land where there are no intellectual criteria we must meet before
speaking our minds. Yea! that we still live in a land where everyone has the
equal right to throw tantrums and call names in a manner that would make a
two-year-old watch and learn in awe.
Yea! that when all is said and done most of us choose to move forward side-by-side and make it all work.
Yea! that when all is said and done most of us choose to move forward side-by-side and make it all work.
American Mom | 12:00 a.m. June 24, 2008
I choose for myself to Stand for what I believe is right. I may step on your
toes but that is okay. This is what this country is all about. Different
opinions, Different thoughts, Different beliefs. Because I Believe the way I
believe doesn't mean that you can't believe your way. This hate is
what distroys our country. I am a straight American Mom. I do believe that
marriage should be between a man and a woman. I also respect people who believe
differently too. When I meet you I won't hate you, I will treat you with
respect.I have always tried to do that. I hope that instead of bashing each
other that you will step back and understand that we may not all agree on
politics but we do need to treat people with respect.
Kaylea | 12:00 a.m. June 24, 2008
When a minority of people wanted to have the ability to pray taken out of
schools - they got it.
When a minority of people wanted to have the Ten Commandments taken out of a court house - they got it.
IN GOD WE TRUST on our coins - they are working on dismissing.
And now - when a minority of people wish to change Civil Marriage Vows between a Man and Woman, and wish to have that union accepted by God, country and people.
Something is very wrong with that picture. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints speaks up for a reason - someone has to.
Why does this arguement even fall under the heading of POLITICS - it is not. What we truly believe in is our compass, our guiding star - some forget to us it. Others, perhaps are just looking for the next headline.
In God we trust - is what this country was founded on - religious freedom - One Nation Under God. If this 'union' is not God's will, then it does not belong anywhere.
When a minority of people wanted to have the Ten Commandments taken out of a court house - they got it.
IN GOD WE TRUST on our coins - they are working on dismissing.
And now - when a minority of people wish to change Civil Marriage Vows between a Man and Woman, and wish to have that union accepted by God, country and people.
Something is very wrong with that picture. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints speaks up for a reason - someone has to.
Why does this arguement even fall under the heading of POLITICS - it is not. What we truly believe in is our compass, our guiding star - some forget to us it. Others, perhaps are just looking for the next headline.
In God we trust - is what this country was founded on - religious freedom - One Nation Under God. If this 'union' is not God's will, then it does not belong anywhere.
Saccharomyces cerevisiae | 12:02 a.m. June 24, 2008
There are times when you feel you are watching the valiant but vain efforts of
Sisyphus. For example, seeing a small child push really hard on a door marked:
Exit. You feel compelled to intervene. This is one of those moments for me.
For years the Broke Back Mountain crowd has been trying to change the Church,
but to no avail.
No longer can I sit idly by and watch this charade. I�m letting the proverbial cat out of the bag. I�m outing the Church so to speak. Are you ready? You are fighting a shadow. The Church is just a puppet. It is merely a front group for the real Man in charge. That�s right! Your real dispute is with God. He is the one you need to change. Get Him on board and it�s all over. These prophets and apostles are simply His underlings doing His bidding.
Now you get it. Stop messing with the clerks and go for the storeowner. That�s right! I can see you hitting your collective foreheads. It�s so easy. The soldiers don�t make the rules, the President does. Don�t mention it. You�re welcome.
No longer can I sit idly by and watch this charade. I�m letting the proverbial cat out of the bag. I�m outing the Church so to speak. Are you ready? You are fighting a shadow. The Church is just a puppet. It is merely a front group for the real Man in charge. That�s right! Your real dispute is with God. He is the one you need to change. Get Him on board and it�s all over. These prophets and apostles are simply His underlings doing His bidding.
Now you get it. Stop messing with the clerks and go for the storeowner. That�s right! I can see you hitting your collective foreheads. It�s so easy. The soldiers don�t make the rules, the President does. Don�t mention it. You�re welcome.
Anonymous | 12:04 a.m. June 24, 2008
Should a rich, tax exempt religious organization be allowed to use its tax
exempt funds and operations to lobby for a constitutional revision that denies
gay taxpayers equal protection under the law?
I don't think so.
Tax the church!
I don't think so.
Tax the church!
re: re: Blah Blah | 12:25 a.m. June 24, 2008
Would your situation be any different if your father had left your mom for
another woman? His problems stem not from his homosexuality, my friend.
Gay marriage hypocrites. | 12:25 a.m. June 24, 2008
Lets see. Won't affect religious marriage. Except it has in other places.
That is the next logical step since most gay and lesbian couples
'want' what everyone else has. They think it is civil marriage but
when it isn't then they will go after religious marriage.
The funniest thing I read this week is that many gays are opposed to any 'other' form of marriage now that they have civil marriage. They are not willing to extend it to anyone else. Don't we know that marriage is two humans and nothing else. What HYPOCRITES!!!!!!
The funniest thing I read this week is that many gays are opposed to any 'other' form of marriage now that they have civil marriage. They are not willing to extend it to anyone else. Don't we know that marriage is two humans and nothing else. What HYPOCRITES!!!!!!
Lynn | 12:43 a.m. June 24, 2008
"We thank Thee, Oh, God, for a Prophet, to guide us in these latter
days!"
For us LDS, that is one of our major core beliefs. The words of the Prophet trumps the sophistry and "Political Correctness" of man.
I urge all my fellow Latter-day Saints to remember your covenants, and to sustain the Prophet. Remember the Proclamation on the Family, and what it says about how the world will reap destruction: "We warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations, the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets...We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society." This same Proclamation makes it quite clear that "marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God, and that the family is central to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children." Nowhere in this is there any idea that gay marriage is accepted by God. It stands to reason that gay marriage should not be accepted by Latter-day Saints who have made sacred covenants to sustain the Prophet.
For us LDS, that is one of our major core beliefs. The words of the Prophet trumps the sophistry and "Political Correctness" of man.
I urge all my fellow Latter-day Saints to remember your covenants, and to sustain the Prophet. Remember the Proclamation on the Family, and what it says about how the world will reap destruction: "We warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations, the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets...We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society." This same Proclamation makes it quite clear that "marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God, and that the family is central to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children." Nowhere in this is there any idea that gay marriage is accepted by God. It stands to reason that gay marriage should not be accepted by Latter-day Saints who have made sacred covenants to sustain the Prophet.
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Lot knew the men wouldn't have sexual relations with his daughters but he offered because he knew they wouldn't accept and was trying to shame them into not doing what they intended to do which was rape two men.
This story has everything to do with being gay and its destructive nature. It shows the real motivation behind homosexuality and the threat it poses to the moral fabric of society.
It's about sexual gratification, the story of Lot and his daughters illustrate that these men had one goal in mind and that was to shame/control another man by using them for their sexual gratification.
This is how some men see women but regardless of how you see it its immoral to have marriage based on "sexual gratification." It undermines the social fabric and creates a culture where children learn that the role of marriage is sexual gratification and that the only purpose of marriage is sex. They cease to see marriage as a union between a husband and wife who are in love and see it as satisfying their sexual desire. Take out the sex why isn't there a reason gay people wouldn't marry women?