Deseret News | Reader comments: Panel hears human side of immigration

Reader comments
Panel hears human side of immigration

Nonsense needs to stop, Pt. I | 1:10 a.m. June 20, 2008

"While E-Verify catches mismatched names and Social Security numbers, it doesn't catch those who steal entire identities, he said."

This is why we must get away from the flawed idea that working and living in this country should be contingent on being a citizen. The free and legal flow of people across the border will ensure that we have a knowledge of who is living and working here and we could tax these workers.

"Employers are in a bind," Hamilton said. "If they are presented a government issued ID card, it is a discriminatory act to refuse to accept that."

Of course it is. This is why we need to get to the root of the issue: the idea that non-citizens can't work in the U.S. They like everyone else who works here should be taxed just like Americans living in other countries are taxed by both the U.S. and the country they are working in.

Rep. Noel asked "Are we not giving our own American citizens the opportunity?"

Businesses shouldn't be forced to hire U.S. citizens anymore than a person should be forced to marry a citizen. Freedom of association exists and the voter doesn't own the country.

Ronald A. Young | 4:46 a.m. June 20, 2008

Why is it taking so long for SB81 to go into effect. I have compassion for the kids. If their parents are arrested for being Illegal Aliens that is rough. However the Parents have No Right To Be Here and they are Breaking The Law. Also Identity Theft is also a Crime. So they are in our Country Breaking our Laws. With all do Respect to the Priest and his Valiant Attempts to keep order in what must have been Chaos. I know the Kids needed to have some place to go and be protected, while things are sorted out. That is the Job of Law Enforcement, State, Cache County and Logan its Self, of course the Feds Get in on it also. I truly Believe that the kids should be protected and not exploited, and the Transition Back to their Country be made as smoothly a possible. The bottom line is their Parents Endangered them by coming to America in an Illegal manner. Then their parents obtained false ID to further enable them to Break the Law. I am sure they paid for that. I wish them well and a good life in their country.

Bob G | 5:03 a.m. June 20, 2008

What I want to know is why are these illegal children of illegal aliens in our schools? If the Rev is so concerned about how these illegals live in hiding and in underground communities blatently flaunt and disobey our laws then why doesn't he do something about helping in deporting them and returning them back to their own country? There is nothing wrong with America's laws on illegal aliens and immigration, however there are problems in enforcement of our laws. Cities and states as well as american citizens are claiming it is not their responsibilty when in fact it is everyones responsibility to secure and have a safe homeland. Utah must take a stance on illegal aliens and aid the federal government to keep these illegals and their children and families out of America and deporting them from our country. The reverend can take his flock back to mexico and help them there. The Rev is acting treasonous in protecting and harboring illegal aliens and their families. Business is after the cheap labor to break and defeat legal wage earners from a decent wage. This revue board has one goal, defeat any attempts to stop illegal aliens from entering Utah.

Comments continue below

Migra man | 5:33 a.m. June 20, 2008

Mano dura contra los ilegales! Get tough now and show mercy later if needed - not the other way around!

D Slater | 5:56 a.m. June 20, 2008

While I have a great deal of compassion for children and other "innocents", I wonder why there is so much compassion for illegal immigrants when the children/families of incarcerated felons of legal residence are ignored?

Brother Chuck Schroeder | 6:45 a.m. June 20, 2008

Jusr what part of illegal's don't members of the Immigration Interim Committee understand in America?. Illegals need to be deported when and if found in America. It's that simple, we are a Nation of Law's, and illegal's and the employer's that hire them know this and are breaking the law. We don't need more federal law's in the books to "sugar-coat" breaking the law is a right thing to do, it's not. We also don't need judicial activist judge's either, trying to make a wrong right.

No coverage | 7:29 a.m. June 20, 2008

I must have missed the coverage about Mormon involvement in immigration. Last week a San Marcos CA LDS chapel hosted a Mexican Consulate Matricula Card Drive. That's right, from the same church that won't use chapels as polling places!
All you want to do is introduce illegal aliens as victims deserving compassion (amnesty).

Anonymous | 7:44 a.m. June 20, 2008

Families have difficulties when breadwinners are arrested. That is true when the person arrested is a rapist, drug dealer, or immigration criminal. Stealing identities, using forged documents to obtain employment, and illegal re-entry once they have been caught and deported are felonies.

If they don't want to face the consequences of their actions, they shouldn't commit the crimes.

No Excuses | 7:44 a.m. June 20, 2008

Children are always the innocent parties that are most negatively effected when their parents are law breakers. Yes its sad, very sad for the children. Maybe we should go to the prison and any criminals currently in prison that have children under the age of 18 should be immediately released from prison. We really need to have compassion on these children first and foremost, and we really can't be putting their criminal parents in prison because that would be unfair to the children.

arc | 7:46 a.m. June 20, 2008

identity theft should be punishable by 10 years of prison or more.

Concerned Reader | 8:00 a.m. June 20, 2008

Once again the Deseret News is trying to force illegal's upon us. I think the paper is too tied into the downtown business alliance and their opinions. This warps their view on reality. If the paper is economically hurting may I suggest they get off the nanny kick and try just reporting the news? I they are looking for people to fire may I also suggest Deborah Bulkeley and get rid of her pro illegal articles

James J | 8:22 a.m. June 20, 2008

I was living in Greeley, CO when the raids on Swift took place. While itï¿½s a sad situation there was a tremendous sigh of relief in the community. The illegal immigration problem in Greeley and surrounding areas is so bad that I canï¿½t put it into words. The Mexican gang problem is so bad I canï¿½t put it into words. This isn't a complex issue, we are a country of consequences, you break a law you pay the price. These people need to be deported and their kids should follow suit.
On another front, Swift is saying that is doesnï¿½t KNOWINGLY hire illegal immigrants. If you drive past the meat packing plant all of the hiring signs, until recently, are in Spanish. I wonder why that would be?

PS
Recent Poll says 85% of all people in America want the Illegal population out. 85%. WHY ARE WE NOT DEPORTING THESE LAW BREAKERS???

Anonymous | 8:37 a.m. June 20, 2008

Actions have consequences

Immigrants are people too | 8:40 a.m. June 20, 2008

The workers wouldn't have to come here illegally and steal identities if the U.S. government would have a better program for giving out work visas. The illegal immigrants are just people who want to work so they can feed their families which they can't do in their home countries. They need work, and the U.S. needs cheap workers, so why not let them do it legally?

julia | 8:41 a.m. June 20, 2008

when I was young my parents wanted to live in the US. My father was born in a Communist country so it took 7 years for my parents to get a visa to enter this country. We had to have a sponsor. We did all that was necessary and we came, (the whole family) we learned to speak English. My father got a job and took care of our needs. We did all of this legally.
It makes me mad when I go to stores now and every thing is translated into spanish. Even when calling a business we have to push one to hear it in English. Any where you go people are speaking spanish. This is now acceptable. if these people want to come to this country let them do what we did. Get a sponsor, learn the language and do it legally.

Lynch mob | 8:54 a.m. June 20, 2008

I'm sorry James J, but your 85% number is pure b.s. The fact is, there are a lot of people (like me) who want a more sensible approach than trying to round up 13 million people and flying them to another country.

While no one cares about those who care about immigrants, before you put yourself in lynch mob mode, try putting yourself in their shoes. There is nothing in your country for you and your family. Everyone is terribly corrupt. There's hope up North, but that govt won't give you a work visa, so you decide you'll risk your life to help your family. You do so and spend your days working hard to send money home, all the while trying to avoid the "natives" who think you're scum.

Is it right to come illegally? No. But until they have a more reasonable choice (immigration law overhaul), we need to handle the problem with compassion and sense.

No simple solutions | 9:14 a.m. June 20, 2008

I'm so tired of hearing "what part of illegal don't you understand." My response is, "what part of complicated problem don't you understand." This issue effects everything and just "sending people" home is not that easy. You have to tread cautiously to not wreak havoc on our economy, on children, employers and families who are here illegally but going through an extremely tough time in their country and deserve compassion.

Take Back America | 9:22 a.m. June 20, 2008

We need to increase the penalty for identity theft. If an illegal gains U.S. employment through identity theft, send them to prison for a 10 year minimum. The penalty will make illegals think twice before breaking our laws, and should decrease illegal immigration. I'd be happy to pay the incarceration cost instead of paying the increased cost for school, healthcare, welfare fraud, and crime that illegals force upon us.

Anonymous | 9:25 a.m. June 20, 2008

There is a simple fix, Send the kids home with their parents and seal up the boarders.

a thinker | 9:33 a.m. June 20, 2008

Google "most recession proof city, and Oklahoma City" and see what you come up with. As many know, Oklahoma has the toughest stance on illegal immigration in the country. Chances are their stance on illegal immigration has a lot to do with their economic standing.

The lie that many businesses can only stay in business by paying many of their employees--illegal aliens--well below the market wages is "pure b.s." Anyone that has taken basic economic classes understands that the price of any good or service is almost exclusively dependent on supply and demand which suggests that the cost of employing someone has a marginal effect on price at best.

In other words, start paying employees wages that any decent American could live a comfortable life on (in other words, pay a lot more than minimum wage--can any breadwinner in this country support a family on $5, 6, or $7 an hour?) and all of a sudden you'll find that these poor companies won't have much problem finding legal US citizens to pack meat, clean toilets, pick lettuce, etc.

It's not beneath me to pack meat. It's beneath me to get paid $5 an hour to pack meat.

James J | 9:38 a.m. June 20, 2008

Lynch mob, I'm not allowed to post links on this site, by why don't you go do some research and find out for yourself.

Jeff | 9:41 a.m. June 20, 2008

Having lived some years in Mexico, I was permitted the opportunity to stand from new perspectives and glean new "vistas," if I can use that now naturalized, English term. Now, I am of the opinion that when you enter a new jurisdiction, you should abide by said government's laws, for that is what I did while in Mexico); however, I also understand that there are many illegal immigrants who are, frankly, ignorant of their breaking any "laws." Furthermore, not disregarding the reality of crime that does go on by some of their unattended children, I have seen many spouses and children whose fathers--good, decent people--are here, working and sending money home to them. Thus, I think there is a great need for a humane recognition and motivation as we legislate upon the lives of real people.

The human side? | 9:41 a.m. June 20, 2008

Why is this characterized as the "human side" of the issue? What, is everything else academic? Increased crime rates, fraud, identity theft, lowering wages for other workers, flouting immigration law, overburdening services, cutting ahead of everyone else in the world that would love a chance at US citizenship but don't just hop a fence or buy a counterfeit visa to get here. These are real impacts, and they are impacts on real people. As sad as some of these stories are, they are predicable consequnces for people chosing to break the law.

A little restraint | 9:47 a.m. June 20, 2008

Some laws prohibit specific actions because they are morally wrong (murder, rape, robbery); other laws prohibit specific actions to achieve specific purposes, not because the action is inherently wrong (speed limit laws or curfews for teens). There is nothing inherently wrong with walking or driving across an arbitrarily designated border, especially when a person is doing it with the honest intent to save their lives and their family.

People who cross the border illegally have not broken any moral law. They have broken a law and should have to pay some penalty for it, but not one equal, or even close, to the magnitude one would pay for robbery or rape. How many times do people speed and not get caught? Should the authorities track down every person who has ever sped and issue tickets for each infraction? Of course not. It's better if we obey speed laws but breaking them is only a minor infraction.

I think we all need to take a step back and remember that "illegal aliens" are mostly honest people who want the best for their families. If they break more severe laws, then deport them; otherwise, have some compassion.

Jason Finch | 10:19 a.m. June 20, 2008

Why are so many of you so arrogant regarding this issue? Have you ever stopped to ponder who are these so called "illegals"? For example, consider the families from central America who fled the civil wars in the late 80's and early 90's. They came to America seeking refuge and filed for asylum. As a result of our bureaucracy their asylum applications have been pending in come cases over 15 years. Today the asylum officers simply tell these applicants that their country is now not at war so you can go home. Except, these alien have children born in the US, homes, jobs and nothing outside the US. Consider another group, the so called "illegals" who are actually the same aliens who are patiently waiting in the visa lines so they can immigrate legally. How many of you have researched the "visa bulletin" so see the actual wait times for immigrating to the United States? Finally, there are very stiff penalties for identity theft (For example: 1028A Aggravated ID Theft mandatory 2 year prison, or false claim to citizenship is a lifetime bar to immigrating). Where much is give much is required -- someday maybe we as USC's will remember.

Re: James J | 10:30 a.m. June 20, 2008

Lol. You state hyperbole and then tell the truth finder to figure it out on your own. Sorry, but things don't work that way.

Here We Go | 2:17 p.m. June 20, 2008

again...the sob stories about illegals who want what we have but flatly refuse allegiance to the country that has given THEM more than their home countries ever would.
It is nice to know that ICE is picking them up left and right down in Utah county...

Re: A little restraint | 4:36 p.m. June 20, 2008

The punishment should fit the crime as you're explaining, but you need to also consider that the crime rate has inflated immensely because of illegal immigrants "walking or driving across an arbitrarily designated border" as you put it.
(For stats GOOGLE: U.S. crime rate illegals)

I was born outside of this nation and it took me 5 years to become a US citizen and I firmly believe that any immigrant who wants to come into this nation (for family, for a better life, etc) MUST do it legally. With that said, I also believe that we must make it easier for those who come here to obtain citizenship.

AH | 4:38 p.m. June 20, 2008

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907:

'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.'

Forget political correctness and it's bs, we need to still abide by Roosevelt's theory.

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