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Dossiers based on 'paranoia,' FLDS attorney says
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Oh Please... | 2:06 p.m. June 17, 2008
Slander is next to impossible to prove...
This sounds like a smoke screen. Let's get the attention off the sect by accusing people of wronging us.
Just leave the children innocent and untouched. Is that too much to ask?
This sounds like a smoke screen. Let's get the attention off the sect by accusing people of wronging us.
Just leave the children innocent and untouched. Is that too much to ask?
Think!!!!! | 2:51 p.m. June 17, 2008
The Utah Attorneys office knows they have a lot of sway with the public, so why
not throw out accusations against FLDS that have tried now to meet with Mark
Shirtleff. Instead of extending a hand and meeting with Willie, Mark is hiding
behind his staff. He knows he has not said it the way it really is, so now the
accusations.
Comments continue below
yeeah | 2:54 p.m. June 17, 2008
How can we deprogram these people? We dont want to run into the same situation
as the middle east.
Utah started this mess | 2:55 p.m. June 17, 2008
Texas proceeded on good faith that all the stuff told to them from Utah public
officials was true. Proof is in the pudding. I feel ashamed to be from Utah,
just glad I am not from Washington county.
Funny if it was so sad | 3:17 p.m. June 17, 2008
"We do the best we can to gather reliable information and pass it
along," Murphy said Tuesday. "If he has information that can help
correct anything that's been said we welcome that information. I think he
unfairly characterizes where we get our information."
Uh-huh. Well if the Utah AG office passed on "reliable information" to the Texas authorities, they sure didn't use it.
And that's not just my opinon; their own Supreme Court said the same thing.
Hypocrisy, thy name is Paul Murphy.
Uh-huh. Well if the Utah AG office passed on "reliable information" to the Texas authorities, they sure didn't use it.
And that's not just my opinon; their own Supreme Court said the same thing.
Hypocrisy, thy name is Paul Murphy.
saddened | 3:24 p.m. June 17, 2008
I can not believe anyone could possibly take those dossiers seriously
John Lambert | 3:37 p.m. June 17, 2008
Utah's AG who refuses to prosecute people for breaking the laws, thus
acting as if he has the power to create the law instead of just the duty to
enforce it, does have a valid point. The dossiers were the work of officials in
Washington County, not of state officials. Parker has showed that he is as
willing to play by mass attack and guilt by association tactics as are any of
his enemies.
Despite having been glorified by some people as a defender of people from persecution, Parker is willing to start his own persecutions to help his clients, trying to blame people for things they had no part in.
Despite having been glorified by some people as a defender of people from persecution, Parker is willing to start his own persecutions to help his clients, trying to blame people for things they had no part in.
On the other hand | 3:46 p.m. June 17, 2008
Re: Oh Please..."Just leave the children innocent and untouched. Is that
too much to ask?"
Are you referring to the state of Texas? Or the FLDS?. If it is the state of Texas, I agree whole heartedly, if you are referring to the FLDS, from all I've seen and heard, these are just parents loving their children and teaching them from the way they perceive the world to be. They same way, I presume, that your parents did. If that perception differs from the way you see things, so what?
Re: yeeah. What the...?
Re: Utah started this mess. I very much doubt Texas proceeded on good faith, intentions or anything else. Their own statements bear this out. Oh by the way, the phrase is the proof is in the putting..think about it for a moment, you'll get it.
Are you referring to the state of Texas? Or the FLDS?. If it is the state of Texas, I agree whole heartedly, if you are referring to the FLDS, from all I've seen and heard, these are just parents loving their children and teaching them from the way they perceive the world to be. They same way, I presume, that your parents did. If that perception differs from the way you see things, so what?
Re: yeeah. What the...?
Re: Utah started this mess. I very much doubt Texas proceeded on good faith, intentions or anything else. Their own statements bear this out. Oh by the way, the phrase is the proof is in the putting..think about it for a moment, you'll get it.
There's paranoia on both sides | 4:14 p.m. June 17, 2008
I think it's fairly obvious there is rampant paranoia on both sides (FLDS
paranoid of outsiders... Outsiders paranoid of the FLDS). I think this
situation is all based on rumors started intentionally to cause this type of
paranoid reaction.
I live in Utah and I thought it was almost commical the paranoia that was evident in our law enforcement community at the beginning of the Warren Jeffs trial. Every time he was moved there were heavily armed convoys of vehicles with unusually heavy police presence, even air support. The first few days of the trial there were snippers stationed on the court building and helecopters circleing, and agents watching these FLDS "enforcers" they have dosseirs on. It was a joke and eventually they figured out they were over-reacting and it settled into a little more normal atmosphere for a high visibility case.
Similarly, FLDS leaders have taught their people to be paranoid of outsiders and especially judges and politicians. Teaching children to stay in the compound or with FLDS protectors because someday people will try to take you away from your family.
Think about it... The violent armed resistence Utah officials predicted in their paranoia never happend. But-The-FLDS-kids-who-were-taught-to-hide-from-outsiders-WERE-kidnapped-just-as-their-paranoid-leaders-taught-them-would-someday-happen.
Who's-paranoia-was-more-justified?
I live in Utah and I thought it was almost commical the paranoia that was evident in our law enforcement community at the beginning of the Warren Jeffs trial. Every time he was moved there were heavily armed convoys of vehicles with unusually heavy police presence, even air support. The first few days of the trial there were snippers stationed on the court building and helecopters circleing, and agents watching these FLDS "enforcers" they have dosseirs on. It was a joke and eventually they figured out they were over-reacting and it settled into a little more normal atmosphere for a high visibility case.
Similarly, FLDS leaders have taught their people to be paranoid of outsiders and especially judges and politicians. Teaching children to stay in the compound or with FLDS protectors because someday people will try to take you away from your family.
Think about it... The violent armed resistence Utah officials predicted in their paranoia never happend. But-The-FLDS-kids-who-were-taught-to-hide-from-outsiders-WERE-kidnapped-just-as-their-paranoid-leaders-taught-them-would-someday-happen.
Who's-paranoia-was-more-justified?
Huh??? | 4:44 p.m. June 17, 2008
Same situation as the middle east? What in the blazes are you talking about?
These are religous fanatics, true, but they aren't teaching each other to
terrorize others, they are teaching to keep to yourself. There's a HUGE
difference. Let's THINK before we make assumptions and generalizations.
Anon | 4:59 p.m. June 17, 2008
Might makes right. Whoever has the guns, makes the rules.
uh-huh | 5:08 p.m. June 17, 2008
now does everyone understand why these polygamist were allowed to vote for years
and years since 1890..while the original inhabitants ..native americans
weren't allowed to until 1954..utah being the very last state to do so. now
who's zooming who...they still think all natives are in Pioneer park and
even when the educated ones apply for anything..we are overscrutinized!so i feel
for ya FLDS..even if you do commit felonies.
Creepy | 5:36 p.m. June 17, 2008
This FLDS stuff gets stupider by the minute. I am so sick and tired of this
obnoxious polygamist FLDS group of people that I could scream!....Too many
liars.
Looks like possibly Warren Jeffs could be the father to many of those FLDS children running all over the compound. I understand that Jeffs had approximately 180 wives.
Looks like possibly Warren Jeffs could be the father to many of those FLDS children running all over the compound. I understand that Jeffs had approximately 180 wives.
FLDS lover | 6:27 p.m. June 17, 2008
No, actually I'm not. But I don't hate them either. In fact, I respect
their right to exist, and hope that they receive constitutional protection just
like anyone else. I think its great that Willie Jessop reaffirmed the official
FLDS policy that marriage age laws were to be recognized and honored. I hope
that they rebuild their shaken community at YFZ ranch and thrive! CPS has caused
enough anguish already.
Long | 6:43 p.m. June 17, 2008
Creepy: some people are totaly Creepy I think you take the cake!!yup!
Gal50 | 7:14 p.m. June 17, 2008
I agree that there is paranoia on both sides. In fact, it is well-understood
that people who are paranoid often attract the suspicions of others.
Today on Oprah, Lisa Ling took viewers on tours of two communities. One consisted of former FLDS members who live in a beautiful and typical suburban community. Except for the polygamy and the 30,000 square foot homes, everything else was normal. The residents were friendly and appeared normal in personality and dress.
Then she and Carolyn Jessop drove down to Short Creek. Lisa Ling, who has reported from various battlegrounds was, like Texas CPS, very sensitive to the fact that they may not be safe. The FLDS acted extremely bizarrely. The FLDS appeared to be calling each other to report the intrusion of strangers. The FLDS let Lisa, Carolyn and the TV crew know that they were not welcome by blaring their horns. It was very similar to Texas in that very tall walls had been built to separate the streets from the homes. There were clearly people who assumed a spying role and immediately alerted the residents to the strangers. It seemed to be a paranoid society that does a disservice to polygamy.
Today on Oprah, Lisa Ling took viewers on tours of two communities. One consisted of former FLDS members who live in a beautiful and typical suburban community. Except for the polygamy and the 30,000 square foot homes, everything else was normal. The residents were friendly and appeared normal in personality and dress.
Then she and Carolyn Jessop drove down to Short Creek. Lisa Ling, who has reported from various battlegrounds was, like Texas CPS, very sensitive to the fact that they may not be safe. The FLDS acted extremely bizarrely. The FLDS appeared to be calling each other to report the intrusion of strangers. The FLDS let Lisa, Carolyn and the TV crew know that they were not welcome by blaring their horns. It was very similar to Texas in that very tall walls had been built to separate the streets from the homes. There were clearly people who assumed a spying role and immediately alerted the residents to the strangers. It seemed to be a paranoid society that does a disservice to polygamy.
COSMO | 7:33 p.m. June 17, 2008
I wonder,if a State agency maliciously misrepresents
a citizens name,can that person appeal to the U.S Attorney General, for justice,directly?
Re:Creepy; I heard he had 280 wives, and 4 sets of rocket powered underwear. :-)
Re:zxcvbnm; I would bet that old HappyHips Hildebrand
wishes he had rocket powered underwear.
a citizens name,can that person appeal to the U.S Attorney General, for justice,directly?
Re:Creepy; I heard he had 280 wives, and 4 sets of rocket powered underwear. :-)
Re:zxcvbnm; I would bet that old HappyHips Hildebrand
wishes he had rocket powered underwear.
COSMO | 7:53 p.m. June 17, 2008
I see Gal50 was worshipping her God;Oprah. And you know that everything Oprah
says and does, is perfect
and true. Now if all you peons would do as Oprah says
you to can find perfection.
P.S. Now Texas attacks peaceful people, and they barely escape with their children, And the High Priest of Oprah, "Gal50", states that the Flds
people are "paranoid"! Gal50 go back to your false
God Oprah, and grovel properly.
and true. Now if all you peons would do as Oprah says
you to can find perfection.
P.S. Now Texas attacks peaceful people, and they barely escape with their children, And the High Priest of Oprah, "Gal50", states that the Flds
people are "paranoid"! Gal50 go back to your false
God Oprah, and grovel properly.
Toes | 7:55 p.m. June 17, 2008
Polite people make appointments. Perhaps if Lisa Ling and Carolyn Jessop had
called a few people in Short Creek ahead of time to ask if anyone would like to
visit with them, their reception would have been different.
Janet | 7:55 p.m. June 17, 2008
John Lambert, you need a psychiatric evaluation, you are blowing hot air and
have no facts. If you are a Mormon as I believe you cliam to be if my memory
serves me correctly then take my advice and go say your prayers. God can give
you a knowledge of the truth and then you will not have to embarrass yourself
further by your presumed facts. Heaven bless you and help you to open your eyes.
Washington County UT | 8:20 p.m. June 17, 2008
Sherrif Smith of Washington COunty, What was going on in your county just prior
to you and Belnap the Co. Attny. filing those charges against Warren Jeffs?
What?! The biggest sex scandel in the history of Utah Jails and Prisons! Where
are your victoms are they allowed to speak out? Why is it that you all of a
sudden have nothing to say? Where you not the special guest of the Sherrif in
TX along with Flora Jessop? Wow! how quickly it is that you change your tune.
Good freinds today (Vote for me) and totally disgusted tomarrow (Good press). I
have never seen a more cowardly person in my life. Go ahead, spout back!
I'm listening....
Strange coincidence | 8:31 p.m. June 17, 2008
This wasn't posted - so I will try again.
On May 18, Elissa Walls husband met with a person who writes mafia books. This writer has a website that talks about how to write "mafia" style.
I just think this was a strange coincidence that shortly after this meeting the FLDS was profiled as the like mafia members. (By the way anyone from Chicago or New York will find that a ridiculous).
Look at the May 20 entry on mobwriter.blogspot.com and you will see the blog talking about the meeting.
On May 18, Elissa Walls husband met with a person who writes mafia books. This writer has a website that talks about how to write "mafia" style.
I just think this was a strange coincidence that shortly after this meeting the FLDS was profiled as the like mafia members. (By the way anyone from Chicago or New York will find that a ridiculous).
Look at the May 20 entry on mobwriter.blogspot.com and you will see the blog talking about the meeting.
Dave | 8:33 p.m. June 17, 2008
Stepping on TOES, It wouldn't have made any difference whatsoever-- The
FLDS DO NOT LIKE OUTSIDERS! Unless however, it was the LAW standing on their
front porch, then they would act all pious, humble and sweet. FLDS are liars,
and cowardly hypocrites!
To Dave | 9:18 p.m. June 17, 2008
Ok, one branch of your family is invaded, all the children kidnapped, and it
takes months to reunite the families. Then strangers come to your branch of the
family to gawk and ask questions. Are you going to be feeling all that
hospitable? Or are you going to be concerned and warning all your neighbors? I
don't blame them a bit. As for not liking outsiders, so what? It's a
free country, or at least it's supposed to be. And no, I'm not FLDS,
or polygamist. Just still a believer in the Constitution... Not a believer in
name calling, though...
bilbo | 9:53 p.m. June 17, 2008
On The Other hand said:
"Oh by the way, the phrase is the proof is in the putting..think about it for a moment, you'll get it."
it is obvious you know more about GOLF than cooking up a PUDDING.
this phrase is about PUDDING... as in: your statement went over like a ONE EGG PUDDING. HAHAHAHA.
"Oh by the way, the phrase is the proof is in the putting..think about it for a moment, you'll get it."
it is obvious you know more about GOLF than cooking up a PUDDING.
this phrase is about PUDDING... as in: your statement went over like a ONE EGG PUDDING. HAHAHAHA.
Mary | 10:14 p.m. June 17, 2008
Maybe Lisa Ling wasn't welcome because she treats people like animals in a
zoo...."hey, let's go stare at these people because they are
strange". I would shut my blinds and my doors if she came into my neighbor
with a camera crew to "take pictures" of the funny people in my
neighborhood. I don't blame the FLDS for hiding behind their doors and
letting everyone know that she was around. She thinks she is hot stuff and has
"breaking news". She's a zoo visitor and treats everyone she
interviews as such, an animal in a zoo, to be laughed at, to be ridiculed, and
to be dissected at her will and with her own agenda.
Re: bolbo | 10:37 p.m. June 17, 2008
I think you may suffer from a bit of dyslexia. I believe your D's are
backward and look like B's.
HOHOHO
Other than that, your post makes very little sense.
HOHOHO
Other than that, your post makes very little sense.
Wrong, Rod. | 11:19 p.m. June 17, 2008
Law enforcement was being proactive.
Stupid people! | 12:24 a.m. June 18, 2008
Total Nonsense!
Law Enforcement | 2:19 a.m. June 18, 2008
These people are operating on mis concepted information and calling it
evidence
I think having a weapon trained on you at all times is exactly what I am saying
Law Enforcement has went way to far
I do not trust any thing they say and especially what they think
Go home and leave these people be!
I think having a weapon trained on you at all times is exactly what I am saying
Law Enforcement has went way to far
I do not trust any thing they say and especially what they think
Go home and leave these people be!
Dumb Lawyer | 10:44 a.m. June 18, 2008
There is nothing religious about FLDS sex compound. You folks need to drop the
disguise of using God and religion for your abusive practices. If the FLDS are
so paranoid it is because of the matter in which they live their lives. So
please lay the blame where the blame belongs and that is totally with the FLDS
religious frauds.
What is happening now? | 1:21 p.m. June 18, 2008
Does anyone know how the children are doing - what have they been saying about
their time in foster care?
Has CPS made any visits are taken any children for exams? What about the DNA - have they asked any women about relationships? Have the parenting classes been scheduled. Are any mothers going to challenge the order saying that no abuse was proved?
Are the same people still in charge. If FLDS sues the case workers, can they workers still stay on?
I haven't heard much from Flora, Carolyn or Ellisa. What have they been saying? Do they talk to any of the girls while they were in Texas?
Is anyone still investigating Rosita Swinton? Please don't tell me everyone is just going to drop that issue? I don't believe she was crazy - I think she knew exactly what she was doing and used mental illnes as an excuse to avoid jail.
Has CPS made any visits are taken any children for exams? What about the DNA - have they asked any women about relationships? Have the parenting classes been scheduled. Are any mothers going to challenge the order saying that no abuse was proved?
Are the same people still in charge. If FLDS sues the case workers, can they workers still stay on?
I haven't heard much from Flora, Carolyn or Ellisa. What have they been saying? Do they talk to any of the girls while they were in Texas?
Is anyone still investigating Rosita Swinton? Please don't tell me everyone is just going to drop that issue? I don't believe she was crazy - I think she knew exactly what she was doing and used mental illnes as an excuse to avoid jail.
Deb Lee | 5:40 a.m. June 19, 2008
I read an interesting article written by a LeBaron explaining polygamists'
feelings of persecution.
In 1890, Wilford Woodruff released his manifesto under pressure from the U.S. gov't. At that time, the U.S. gov't was using polygamy as an excuse to refuse to permit Mormons to vote, to declare Mormon wives and children illegitimate and to seize LDS church property.
Some Mormons continued to practice polygamy in secret.
In the 1930's, the LDS church decided to clean up its image. Church leaders asked members to sign an oath of loyalty in which they disavowed polygamy and stated they were not living in plural marriages. Those who would not sign the oath were excommunicated.
Polygamists felt persecuted by both the U.S. gov't and the LDS church. This led to the formation of the FLDS and other splinter groups.
I feel LeBaron provided an excellent explanation as to why Fundamentalist Mormons are "paranoid" of outsiders.
In 1890, Wilford Woodruff released his manifesto under pressure from the U.S. gov't. At that time, the U.S. gov't was using polygamy as an excuse to refuse to permit Mormons to vote, to declare Mormon wives and children illegitimate and to seize LDS church property.
Some Mormons continued to practice polygamy in secret.
In the 1930's, the LDS church decided to clean up its image. Church leaders asked members to sign an oath of loyalty in which they disavowed polygamy and stated they were not living in plural marriages. Those who would not sign the oath were excommunicated.
Polygamists felt persecuted by both the U.S. gov't and the LDS church. This led to the formation of the FLDS and other splinter groups.
I feel LeBaron provided an excellent explanation as to why Fundamentalist Mormons are "paranoid" of outsiders.
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