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Cannon-Chaffetz debate becomes heated
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Emily E | 11:00 a.m. June 14, 2008
I have to say that the reason I will not be voting for Chris Cannon on June 24
is not necessarily because of his voting record, because it's okay. My big
problem is that he's spent his time and energy in office on things that I
really don't care about. And, I do believe that he has been talking out of
both sides of his mouth. He says one thing and then does something completely
different, or just won't do it. Granted, that's not every time, but
once is enough for me. I want a change, so I'll be voting for Chaffetz.
Bad for Utah | 11:07 a.m. June 14, 2008
Jason Chaffetz would be bad for Utah. He is a complete yes man and a climber. He
looks good on camera and like our governor says the right things but walks away
from real confrontation. I will vote for the other guy if Jason is on the
ticket.
Chris Cannon has always been honorable. He is a good man with a great big heart. He is very conservative and studies each bill very deeply. He represents Utah and main stream Utah county values very well. Please vote for Chris Cannon. We need his experienced leadership.
Chris Cannon has always been honorable. He is a good man with a great big heart. He is very conservative and studies each bill very deeply. He represents Utah and main stream Utah county values very well. Please vote for Chris Cannon. We need his experienced leadership.
Universal Health Care | 11:11 a.m. June 14, 2008
With regard to health care, some people just don't get it. The United
States is the only industrialized nation in the world that does not have a
universal health care system. And given the fact our mortality rates (both
regular and infant) and other rates of health are nowhere near as good as other
nations, I can hardly see how we should be proud of the fact we value business
over the health, safety and welfare of our citizens. It is not a matter of cost
- in 2006 our nation's government spent the second highest amount on health
care as compared to other nations. It is also not a matter of agency. This is
because many of our people who "choose" not to have healthcare then
get in over their heads and ultimately come to the government for assistance,
only now it is at a higher premium via the emergency room. Personal choice is
all well and good, but those who choose not to purchase health insurance become
a liability for the rest of society. As good as it sounds from misguided
conservatives, each choice we make brings consequences.
Comments continue below
Depth to Cannon | 11:32 a.m. June 14, 2008
Jason never really answered any questions last night about what he would do. I
would like to know what his position is on immigration, energy, and education.
All he says is what he will not do, but what is he going to do? He seemed like
a whiner, anyone can complain. We need someone that will understand the details
of these complicated issues and I thought Cannon showed more depth than Jason
did.
yorktown | 12:02 p.m. June 14, 2008
BBKing: I thought you said it was a tie! Last time you commented on the race
you said tie goes to the incumbent. Now you're a full-blown Cannon Cronie.
The truth comes out. You're a mole!
Cannon must be replaced. He's a jerk to anyone who writes him a note with a dissenting opinion, if he answers at all. He can't form a coherent sentence nor can he show up to meetings. He's a has-been and he has to go.
And all his staffers posting comments here should really tell him to control his temper. Yikes! He's a hot head.
Cannon must be replaced. He's a jerk to anyone who writes him a note with a dissenting opinion, if he answers at all. He can't form a coherent sentence nor can he show up to meetings. He's a has-been and he has to go.
And all his staffers posting comments here should really tell him to control his temper. Yikes! He's a hot head.
Anonymous | 12:02 p.m. June 14, 2008
Benion Spencer for Congress
photo propaganda | 12:03 p.m. June 14, 2008
Why in the world is Cannon always the front photo? Show Chaffetz first or
surrender your journalistic credentials. You're all a bunch of whimps at
the DMN if you can't give a fair chance to the challenger.
Robert | 12:43 p.m. June 14, 2008
I say fire the whole Congress. None of them are doing anything to clean up this
Country. I just paid over $4.oo a gallon for gas today. If they had any courage
in Congress they start pumping oil in the United States and tell the fat cat
Arab's to get lost. They also need to do something about all the
illegal's. I say build the Great Wall of China across the southern boarder
and send all illegal's back and never let them back into the United States.
Enough blaming Joe | 12:50 p.m. June 14, 2008
Photo propaganda: I guess you haven't been folowing all the stories the
DesNews does but Chaffetz has his fair share of pictures. I guess you think
Chaffetz is as good looking as Chaffetz himself does, eh?
It's getting pathetic how many Chaffetz supporters are blaming Joe for anything wrong Chaffetz does or says. I think the DN is being very fair. They have to report, that's their job. They state facts. I thought they put Chaffetz in a higher light than Cannon because it made it sound Cannon was a mad man. I think he has every right to defend himself and be upset at Chaffetz's allegations.
I don't agree with everything Cannon does, but I completely disagree with Chaffetz say anything to win type attitude. I agree with "Depth to Cannon," Chaffetz needs to think up things that can help America, not just things that will make his opponent look bad.
It's getting pathetic how many Chaffetz supporters are blaming Joe for anything wrong Chaffetz does or says. I think the DN is being very fair. They have to report, that's their job. They state facts. I thought they put Chaffetz in a higher light than Cannon because it made it sound Cannon was a mad man. I think he has every right to defend himself and be upset at Chaffetz's allegations.
I don't agree with everything Cannon does, but I completely disagree with Chaffetz say anything to win type attitude. I agree with "Depth to Cannon," Chaffetz needs to think up things that can help America, not just things that will make his opponent look bad.
Voter in 3rd district | 1:09 p.m. June 14, 2008
Jason living in UTAH COUNTY is certainly "in touch" with the most
populous county in third district. It's a non-issue - give it a rest.
I saw the debate as well. Cannon strikes me as desperate. He's lashing out, refuses to answer questions - he wouldn't even take a stance on the global warming question the moderator asked. He continuously interrupted and kept raising his voice. Uncool.
He is a "loose cannon", has an outrageous temper, refuses to correspond with the "regular folks" in his district (he might respond to someone with the right initials, but I must not be one of those), distorts his own voting record (see NCLB - what he says and how he votes - two different things) and hopes people of his district won't do their own research.
Enough already! Yup, Jason's an unknown in Congress, but he should have a shot. Chris has had 12 years and has proved he panders to whatever the least controversial stand might possibly be and "distorts" the other votes.
Go Jason! Give it your best shot.
I saw the debate as well. Cannon strikes me as desperate. He's lashing out, refuses to answer questions - he wouldn't even take a stance on the global warming question the moderator asked. He continuously interrupted and kept raising his voice. Uncool.
He is a "loose cannon", has an outrageous temper, refuses to correspond with the "regular folks" in his district (he might respond to someone with the right initials, but I must not be one of those), distorts his own voting record (see NCLB - what he says and how he votes - two different things) and hopes people of his district won't do their own research.
Enough already! Yup, Jason's an unknown in Congress, but he should have a shot. Chris has had 12 years and has proved he panders to whatever the least controversial stand might possibly be and "distorts" the other votes.
Go Jason! Give it your best shot.
sad politics | 1:10 p.m. June 14, 2008
just like choosing the president of the united states, our choices flat out
stink. It's like having to chose between vomit and diarrhea. Why
can't anyone good run for office these days??
Sammy | 1:13 p.m. June 14, 2008
What is sad is that the most qualified people don't even enter the race
because of all the lunacy that goes on.
ALL people who aspire to power make deals on the way to the top to gain support from all the people who want favors. The system is designed for everyone to rationalize corruption.
The longer people stay in power the more power they get. So we get these encumbants that are hard to beat even though they take the low road most of the time.
I say, send in Jason Chaffetz and let him stir the pot up a bit. He will now have to show up and vote to keep from looking like a complete fool. We will get more out of him than Chris Cannon who will just find more comfort in his encumbancy.
a side note to Jason: You will probably win so be careful with what you promise to the real "dirty scoundrels" so you won't have to sell out later and look like an even bigger hypocrite. Try a little harder to step up and do the right thing. You can do it.
ALL people who aspire to power make deals on the way to the top to gain support from all the people who want favors. The system is designed for everyone to rationalize corruption.
The longer people stay in power the more power they get. So we get these encumbants that are hard to beat even though they take the low road most of the time.
I say, send in Jason Chaffetz and let him stir the pot up a bit. He will now have to show up and vote to keep from looking like a complete fool. We will get more out of him than Chris Cannon who will just find more comfort in his encumbancy.
a side note to Jason: You will probably win so be careful with what you promise to the real "dirty scoundrels" so you won't have to sell out later and look like an even bigger hypocrite. Try a little harder to step up and do the right thing. You can do it.
Not necesarily | 1:16 p.m. June 14, 2008
Not being endorsed by the governor is not necessarily a bad thing, imho. Then
again, he didn't endorse Cannon either now did he?
Lloyd | 1:24 p.m. June 14, 2008
I've met and heard Cannon at a number of local functions. Looking at the
man, not the record (which I'm not impressed with), Cannon is clearly
lacking. My representative brushing me off, not even look at me while shaking my
hand? Cannon's not looking after his constituents, he is looking for photo
ops, free advertising through appearances and speeches. He is only concerned
about himself, maintaining his employment (I believe it's supposed to be
called service). Congress is not meant to foster career politicions, but public
servants how are responsible.
Is Chavez the answer. I don't know, but he would be easier to get rid of after one term if he doesn't cut it than Cannon after SEVEN terms. It's time to retire Cannon.
BTW I noticed that a LOT of small Chavez signs along the road in Springville have disappeared. A new, Large, Cannon sign have taken their place. No wonder so many people just HATE politics!
Is Chavez the answer. I don't know, but he would be easier to get rid of after one term if he doesn't cut it than Cannon after SEVEN terms. It's time to retire Cannon.
BTW I noticed that a LOT of small Chavez signs along the road in Springville have disappeared. A new, Large, Cannon sign have taken their place. No wonder so many people just HATE politics!
navaboy | 1:28 p.m. June 14, 2008
GO JASON!!! As a young voter, even I can plainly see that Cannon panders and
whines when he is confronted on the issues. He claims he has influence in
Washington...well....where were his ideas when congress and the presidency had
control of policy making??? He frustrates me to the point where he comes off as
arrogant and out of touch. I'll vote for Jason on the 24th with the hope
that we can get some real leaders for Utah.
Doug S | 1:53 p.m. June 14, 2008
Hmm. Anyone else notice the pics accompanying the article?
--Cannon, looking distinguished against a white background and an American flag;
--Chaffetz, looking wild-eyed and dangerous against a black background with no flag visible.
It's a good thing we all know how impartial the Deseret News' editor-in-chief is. Otherwise, we might conclude that this was intentional.
--Cannon, looking distinguished against a white background and an American flag;
--Chaffetz, looking wild-eyed and dangerous against a black background with no flag visible.
It's a good thing we all know how impartial the Deseret News' editor-in-chief is. Otherwise, we might conclude that this was intentional.
BBKing | 1:59 p.m. June 14, 2008
Yorktown, I did day "tie goes to the incumbent" but that was a play on
the headlines of the article, which basically said they were the same on the all
the issues.
If you have read my posts over the months I jumped on the Cannon band wagon many months ago. I talked with Chaffetz and he was nothing but sales pitch. I tried to get into depth with him on issues and he had none.
For those who have read my posts, they will not question I am not a fan of Chaffetz at all. Sorry if you read that one post, that one play of words of the headlines, and thought otherwise.
I clearly support Cannon and I can count the reasons why.
Cannon is not articulate but that is OK. He understands not only the issues but the nuances of public policy and a legislative body.
For me the best example is that of a couple of John Birchers who ran for the Utah legislature. They were the expected right-wing talk on every subject. Once in office they voted quite moderate.
It's easy to talk tough on issues, doing it's another thing. Cannon is proven, Jason not.
If you have read my posts over the months I jumped on the Cannon band wagon many months ago. I talked with Chaffetz and he was nothing but sales pitch. I tried to get into depth with him on issues and he had none.
For those who have read my posts, they will not question I am not a fan of Chaffetz at all. Sorry if you read that one post, that one play of words of the headlines, and thought otherwise.
I clearly support Cannon and I can count the reasons why.
Cannon is not articulate but that is OK. He understands not only the issues but the nuances of public policy and a legislative body.
For me the best example is that of a couple of John Birchers who ran for the Utah legislature. They were the expected right-wing talk on every subject. Once in office they voted quite moderate.
It's easy to talk tough on issues, doing it's another thing. Cannon is proven, Jason not.
Robert H | 2:06 p.m. June 14, 2008
Let me climb into a great reason to NOT support Chaffetz: Socialized
medicine.
I was shocked to read that Jason is endorsing the Taxachusetts plan. If I had to guess he was doing this to pick up votes of those that love Romney.
I like Romney, Cannon endorsed and campaigned for Romney, Romney has done many great things. Health care was NOT one of them.
Basically, Romney's plan was to FORCE everyone in Massacusetts to buy one of a few health care plans. Like any northeastern liberal, government will choose the plans that people get to choose from.
Right now the Mass. Plan is a complete failure! I believe costs are 3 times what was projected, they still have a large number of unisured and now they are having to cut ration/limit services to try and balance the budget.
And Chaffetz supports this! Oh my.
Why not follow Florida lead by Republican Governor Crist? They removed mandates on health care so a family of 4 can buy coverage for $150 a month!
Sadly, Chaffetz either has not researched the Mass plan, is just going back to his Democrat roots or playing the Romney vote. Any case, bad policy!
Chaffetz=socialized medicine!
I was shocked to read that Jason is endorsing the Taxachusetts plan. If I had to guess he was doing this to pick up votes of those that love Romney.
I like Romney, Cannon endorsed and campaigned for Romney, Romney has done many great things. Health care was NOT one of them.
Basically, Romney's plan was to FORCE everyone in Massacusetts to buy one of a few health care plans. Like any northeastern liberal, government will choose the plans that people get to choose from.
Right now the Mass. Plan is a complete failure! I believe costs are 3 times what was projected, they still have a large number of unisured and now they are having to cut ration/limit services to try and balance the budget.
And Chaffetz supports this! Oh my.
Why not follow Florida lead by Republican Governor Crist? They removed mandates on health care so a family of 4 can buy coverage for $150 a month!
Sadly, Chaffetz either has not researched the Mass plan, is just going back to his Democrat roots or playing the Romney vote. Any case, bad policy!
Chaffetz=socialized medicine!
James | 2:11 p.m. June 14, 2008
I agree with BBKing.
The Chaffetz flip flop on concentration camps to now amnesty for 20 million is particularly gauling.
As Joseph Smith said, the sun is at noon day and Chaffetz and his supporters are pretending they didn't say anything remotely like this to hundreds of delegates or thousands of convention attendees.
He attacked Cannon for over a year as the King of Amnesty for wanting to give guest worker visas to 1 million agriculture workers. Now Chaffetz wants to give visas to 20 million illegal aliens.
And his supporters pretend like this was his plan all along.
It is like reading two Bill Clinton speeches to two different audiences. I'd not met Jason Chaffetz before he ran for Congress but see what those people who have known him for years are saying. He is pretty sneaky, dishonest and an opportunist.
By saying that his visa for 20 million is what he had planned all along, and basically imply they never attacked Cannon for amnesty is such a double take. They lie right to your face.
Chaffetz needs to simply bow out of the race.
And BBKing has always endorsed Cannon. I've learned a great deal from his posts.
The Chaffetz flip flop on concentration camps to now amnesty for 20 million is particularly gauling.
As Joseph Smith said, the sun is at noon day and Chaffetz and his supporters are pretending they didn't say anything remotely like this to hundreds of delegates or thousands of convention attendees.
He attacked Cannon for over a year as the King of Amnesty for wanting to give guest worker visas to 1 million agriculture workers. Now Chaffetz wants to give visas to 20 million illegal aliens.
And his supporters pretend like this was his plan all along.
It is like reading two Bill Clinton speeches to two different audiences. I'd not met Jason Chaffetz before he ran for Congress but see what those people who have known him for years are saying. He is pretty sneaky, dishonest and an opportunist.
By saying that his visa for 20 million is what he had planned all along, and basically imply they never attacked Cannon for amnesty is such a double take. They lie right to your face.
Chaffetz needs to simply bow out of the race.
And BBKing has always endorsed Cannon. I've learned a great deal from his posts.
Chowder | 2:13 p.m. June 14, 2008
Ah come on, let's do something REALLY good and not bother with either one.
Let's elect a democrat YAY!!!
The Republicans are FINISHED!
The Republicans are FINISHED!
IM | 3:22 p.m. June 14, 2008
THese are all interesting posts today. I think it's a rather fair balance
of supporters for Chaffetz and Cannon.
Truth be told, Jason is so inconsistent. He has said anything to anyone just to make head way thus far. He's taken politically convenient positions on issues such as immigration and debt to buy time.
Ask Jason how much debt he had when he ran Huntsman's campaign? See what his quotes were from that experience. At that time it was ok to go into debt - not it isn't.
Truth be told, Jason is so inconsistent. He has said anything to anyone just to make head way thus far. He's taken politically convenient positions on issues such as immigration and debt to buy time.
Ask Jason how much debt he had when he ran Huntsman's campaign? See what his quotes were from that experience. At that time it was ok to go into debt - not it isn't.
ross58 | 4:01 p.m. June 14, 2008
I believe Jason Chaffetz will vote as needed to ensure the budget deficit is
reduced, and prove to be more fiscally responsible. I believe he will ensure
that illegal immigration is drastically reduced and people who are in America
illegally identified and eventually deported, (Campaigned as "Catch and
deport"). I believe Jason will do whatever it takes to ensure our disabled
veteran soldiers are taken care of financially as well as medically. I believe
Jason will vote more conservatively and responsibly on international trade
agreements that could threaten our nations' sovereignty. These are just a
few issues where I think Jason differs from Congressman Cannon. There are
several more.
I don't know if Jason Chaffetz is self-serving, but I certainly am in this case. That's why I support Jason Chaffetz for Congress. He will SERVE MY interests; those things I value and believe in. From what I've been witnessing, I share those values and beliefs with an incredible number of other 3rd District Utahans as well.
I don't know if Jason Chaffetz is self-serving, but I certainly am in this case. That's why I support Jason Chaffetz for Congress. He will SERVE MY interests; those things I value and believe in. From what I've been witnessing, I share those values and beliefs with an incredible number of other 3rd District Utahans as well.
Smith Family | 4:30 p.m. June 14, 2008
Lloyd - You noticed the downed signs in Springville too. It's happening
all over the district. Our family has been putting them back up and replacing
the stolen and damaged ones as well. As we put up the signs we comment how we
would never even touch a Cannon sign. We are courteous and careful not to
disturb Mr. Cannon's signs. I would like his staffers and supporters to
show the same consideration to Mr. Chaffetz's signs in return. Just today
(Sat.) we went past my 84 year old aunts home in Springville and some one has
taken hers. Geeze people....let's be nice!
incumb. | 5:16 p.m. June 14, 2008
When the incumb. accuses the challenger of everything under the sun, you just
know that the challenger is closing in on winning the election.
I do not have a dog in this fight, but it is obvious that the incumb. is in for a close, very close election.
Perhaps that is just desserts?
I do not have a dog in this fight, but it is obvious that the incumb. is in for a close, very close election.
Perhaps that is just desserts?
two years ago | 5:19 p.m. June 14, 2008
I think it was about two years ago that I saw Cannon on tv, and I was so
embarassed by his negativity, his arrogance, his... condescending ways. But he
fit Utah perfectly?
He deserves to lose. HOpe it happens.
He deserves to lose. HOpe it happens.
Distorting the Record | 6:37 p.m. June 14, 2008
Cannon keeps saying that Chaffetz distorts his record. I'm trying to
understand that. I haven't heard a single example that holds water.
I read Cannon's blog today. It was laughable. He accused Chaffetz of lying, but never proved it. He basically said Chaffetz was naive and stupid to believe that one could use the normal appropriation process to get projects funded. He seems to think earmarks are the only way to get things done. That's exactly the attitude I want to get rid of!
Cannon went on to challenge Chaffetz on the assertion that Cannon has supported amnesty. He denies that he supports amnesty, even though the Andean Adjustment Act, Student Adjustment Act and Ag Jobs bills rewarded people who broke the law with citizenship.
Then Cannon proceeded to claim that Chaffetz supports amnesty because he will let illegals stay and work for a few months before being deported. Talk about distorting someone's position! No one does it better than Chris Cannon.
Except maybe BBKing.
I read Cannon's blog today. It was laughable. He accused Chaffetz of lying, but never proved it. He basically said Chaffetz was naive and stupid to believe that one could use the normal appropriation process to get projects funded. He seems to think earmarks are the only way to get things done. That's exactly the attitude I want to get rid of!
Cannon went on to challenge Chaffetz on the assertion that Cannon has supported amnesty. He denies that he supports amnesty, even though the Andean Adjustment Act, Student Adjustment Act and Ag Jobs bills rewarded people who broke the law with citizenship.
Then Cannon proceeded to claim that Chaffetz supports amnesty because he will let illegals stay and work for a few months before being deported. Talk about distorting someone's position! No one does it better than Chris Cannon.
Except maybe BBKing.
ski2work | 8:26 p.m. June 14, 2008
What exactly has Cannon done, locally, about the ILLEGAL immigration problem?
Has he bothered to meet with ICE agents in HIS district? When immigration
opened up the Orem office in 2000 there were three agents for thirteen
counties...8 years later, they are now ICE. THey enforce both immigration and
customs laws...has there been a personnel change? No...still the same three
agents.
Thanks Chris for making sure Utah has enforcement resources. At least Chaffetz took the time to find out...8 years and you never did. Time for you to step down Chris...I'm sure MALDEF has a cushy executive position waiting for you.
Thanks Chris for making sure Utah has enforcement resources. At least Chaffetz took the time to find out...8 years and you never did. Time for you to step down Chris...I'm sure MALDEF has a cushy executive position waiting for you.
BBKing | 9:30 p.m. June 14, 2008
Hey Mr 'Distort the Record.'
You've got a MAJOR consistency problem on your hands.
What you need to do is stop listening to Jason for just 48 hours, that's all I ask. You know what he has told you. He has given you very sound answers that you're very comfortable with. Great.
Now, listen/read all of the other Jason supporters. They are all over the place in some major areas.
Take your point about a "few months." Where do you get a 'few months' from? Did Jason tell you that? Why is it that others are saying "6-9 months" one blogger has said "7-10 years."
Take the 'tents' issue. Jason supporters have used the words "concentration camps," "detention camps," "internment camps,' and "holding facilities."
Is there a difference? Is there a difference between a 'concentration camp and a holding facility? Specific words are very powerful.
Let's combine. If he is doing 'camps/tents' for all illegal aliens why does he need a "short term" (few months to 7-10 years) amnesty visa for 20 million illegal aliens?
Jason is telling you what is very reasonable to YOU. And others are obviously being told different.
Where's the consistency?
You've got a MAJOR consistency problem on your hands.
What you need to do is stop listening to Jason for just 48 hours, that's all I ask. You know what he has told you. He has given you very sound answers that you're very comfortable with. Great.
Now, listen/read all of the other Jason supporters. They are all over the place in some major areas.
Take your point about a "few months." Where do you get a 'few months' from? Did Jason tell you that? Why is it that others are saying "6-9 months" one blogger has said "7-10 years."
Take the 'tents' issue. Jason supporters have used the words "concentration camps," "detention camps," "internment camps,' and "holding facilities."
Is there a difference? Is there a difference between a 'concentration camp and a holding facility? Specific words are very powerful.
Let's combine. If he is doing 'camps/tents' for all illegal aliens why does he need a "short term" (few months to 7-10 years) amnesty visa for 20 million illegal aliens?
Jason is telling you what is very reasonable to YOU. And others are obviously being told different.
Where's the consistency?
BBKing | 9:51 p.m. June 14, 2008
OK, maybe I've been tough Chaffetz and his many, varietied supporters.
Define amnesty?
I know that I have listened to Cannon define it the exact same way for many years now. Nothing has changed there.
I have also listened to another very consistent definition that his detractors/opponents have used for many years now. Nothing had changed there, until Wednesday.
Suddenly, the definition has changed. And the timing of that change is associated with Chaffetz coming up with a very ill-defined visa that applies to 20 million illegal aliens.
If his new definition of amnesty is to be believed than Cannon was never guilty of amnesty in the first place. And suddenly it must be because what Chaffetz is proposing fits the perfect definition of amnesty that his supporters have used for over half a decade now.
I'm all ears to hear what amnesty is.
Either way Chaffetz' goose is cooked.
If you stick with some version of what you have used for years, Chaffetz is guilty of amnesty 20 million times over.
If you go with this new one then you owe Cannon a rather humble apology because you were wrong all along.
Pick your poison.
Define amnesty?
I know that I have listened to Cannon define it the exact same way for many years now. Nothing has changed there.
I have also listened to another very consistent definition that his detractors/opponents have used for many years now. Nothing had changed there, until Wednesday.
Suddenly, the definition has changed. And the timing of that change is associated with Chaffetz coming up with a very ill-defined visa that applies to 20 million illegal aliens.
If his new definition of amnesty is to be believed than Cannon was never guilty of amnesty in the first place. And suddenly it must be because what Chaffetz is proposing fits the perfect definition of amnesty that his supporters have used for over half a decade now.
I'm all ears to hear what amnesty is.
Either way Chaffetz' goose is cooked.
If you stick with some version of what you have used for years, Chaffetz is guilty of amnesty 20 million times over.
If you go with this new one then you owe Cannon a rather humble apology because you were wrong all along.
Pick your poison.
Anonymous | 10:22 p.m. June 14, 2008
Mr Cannon should be very familiar with the campaign technique of "lie about
the opponent's record." That is how he got the job in the first place,
by deliberately lying about Orton's record. Orton had the worst
straight-party voting record in the entire congress, because he voted based on
whether he thought a bill was good for his district and all Utah. Cannon, in
every commercial I heard said, "Bill Orton is an automatic vote for Bill
Clinton's policies on the floor of the house." It was a lie and he
knew it. So I offer him absolutely no sympathy. Live by the lie, die by the lie.
Richard | 10:44 p.m. June 14, 2008
I found the following paragraph in the story to be quite interesting
"Cannon said earmarks should be public, as his are. In reality, earmarks are just Congress telling the bureaucrats where to spend money that is already appropriated. If individual congressmen don't list priorities, the bureaucrats will spend the money their own way, and that is not good, either, he said."
In other words Congress first decides how much they will spend and then decides what they will spend it on. The items they end up spending the money on do not seem to have to meet the "this is a good value for our money" or the "this fills a critical need" tests.
I would much rather have a congress that figures out what the critical needs of its citizens are, and then come begging to the taxpayers for the money with a strong case of why we should pay for it.
How did we get this point? Give me half your money and then I'll decide what I'll go spend it on (based on what personal favors I can buy with it)! Sheer lunacy!
"Cannon said earmarks should be public, as his are. In reality, earmarks are just Congress telling the bureaucrats where to spend money that is already appropriated. If individual congressmen don't list priorities, the bureaucrats will spend the money their own way, and that is not good, either, he said."
In other words Congress first decides how much they will spend and then decides what they will spend it on. The items they end up spending the money on do not seem to have to meet the "this is a good value for our money" or the "this fills a critical need" tests.
I would much rather have a congress that figures out what the critical needs of its citizens are, and then come begging to the taxpayers for the money with a strong case of why we should pay for it.
How did we get this point? Give me half your money and then I'll decide what I'll go spend it on (based on what personal favors I can buy with it)! Sheer lunacy!
Robert H | 12:05 a.m. June 15, 2008
Richard, I completely agree with you but this was a trick learned over a hundred
years ago.
Rob Bishop describes it best that they have the funding bill that is set aside for projects. It is a bill with just money, no earmarks. It is voted on.
After the votes are counted they then decide how the money is spent. If you vote No count on getting no funding. If you vote Yes then you can make a case for getting some of the money spent on projects important to your district.
The ideal way would be to simply have a balanced budget amendment with all outlays inside the budget. Then fight over anything within revenue. That would be a great first step.
The system right now has no incentive to not increase spending. So conservative legislators will fight for legitimate projects. And liberals will fight for rec centers to be named after them lik Byrd of West Virginia.
Chaffetz would learn that lesson pretty quickly. He would then understand why his commitment is misguided. It will take a team of committee chairs to make a change like that, or the Speaker of the House.
Until then just be thoughtful.
Rob Bishop describes it best that they have the funding bill that is set aside for projects. It is a bill with just money, no earmarks. It is voted on.
After the votes are counted they then decide how the money is spent. If you vote No count on getting no funding. If you vote Yes then you can make a case for getting some of the money spent on projects important to your district.
The ideal way would be to simply have a balanced budget amendment with all outlays inside the budget. Then fight over anything within revenue. That would be a great first step.
The system right now has no incentive to not increase spending. So conservative legislators will fight for legitimate projects. And liberals will fight for rec centers to be named after them lik Byrd of West Virginia.
Chaffetz would learn that lesson pretty quickly. He would then understand why his commitment is misguided. It will take a team of committee chairs to make a change like that, or the Speaker of the House.
Until then just be thoughtful.
pressure on | 10:58 a.m. June 15, 2008
Cannon staffers are working overtime. Polling wasn't good. Too much
effort defending Cannon, too much time blasting Jason, too little time telling
us what Cannon's done or going to do.
Bye bye Cannon, hello Jason. Vote on the 24th.
Bye bye Cannon, hello Jason. Vote on the 24th.
BooBoo King | 11:27 a.m. June 15, 2008
Chris Cannon and his supporters will say anything, and I mean ANYTHING to
win.
Right here on this paper I have watched people lose their cool with the Cannon people. They LIE and their lies get bolder when you know they're lying.
Take immigration.
Cannon says he is against illegal immigration but then votes (or misses votes) that support amnesty. He says he does not support amnesty in debates but then when the question is presented a different way says he does.
A COMPLETE FLIP-FLOP.
His lies are maddening! Con-man! And his voters ACT like he has been saying this all along. PATHETIC!!!
Vote Chaffetz!
Right here on this paper I have watched people lose their cool with the Cannon people. They LIE and their lies get bolder when you know they're lying.
Take immigration.
Cannon says he is against illegal immigration but then votes (or misses votes) that support amnesty. He says he does not support amnesty in debates but then when the question is presented a different way says he does.
A COMPLETE FLIP-FLOP.
His lies are maddening! Con-man! And his voters ACT like he has been saying this all along. PATHETIC!!!
Vote Chaffetz!
David Edward Garber | 1:16 a.m. June 16, 2008
Reagan was right about abolishing the Department of Education. It's too
bad that Cannon forgot that and voted with borrow-and-spend Bush. We could
certainly do worse than Cannon--but we could do better, as well, and I think
that it's high time that we did just that. I'll be voting for
Chaffetz on June 24th.
arc | 8:16 a.m. June 16, 2008
I am voting for Jason on June 24th. I stopped wanting Cannon to be in DC the 1st
time I met him 6 years ago in person and listened to why he votes for bills he
doesn't agree with. I have met him since, and Cannon is the reason I am not
voting for Cannon. Jason doesn't have to distort Cannon's record,
Cannon does it for him. Fire the Cannon, vote for Jason.
Vote Cannon | 9:56 a.m. June 16, 2008
I live in the 3rd district and won't vote for someone who doesn't live
in my district. Also, if the Chaffetz supporters haven't talked with
someone who has worked with Chaffetz in the past (either in the governor's
office, or at Nu Skin) - they should. None of them coming out to support
Chaffetz tells you something.
Emily E. | 10:05 p.m. June 16, 2008
I would like Chris Cannon to be more specific about what parts of his record are
being distorted. I read his blog, and while he says all these things are
distorted the record just doesn't back it. True, he has been getting better
the past few years, but the change we all want is not happening. If I was happy
with the status-quo I'd vote for Cannon, and nothing would change. But, I
want a significant change that benefits me and my family. Which is why I will be
voting for Chaffetz.
Another Jason | 8:24 a.m. June 17, 2008
Cannon has done a tremendous amount to set Utah back, to stifle our progress,
and to make us a laughing stock in the Nation. His politicking is self-serving,
biased, and manipulative.
I worked with Chaffetz for almost a decade. He is tenacious, has integrity, and is intelligent. His views are a refreshing change from Cannon's old, tired ways.
It is time for a change.
Join me in voting for Chaffetz!
I worked with Chaffetz for almost a decade. He is tenacious, has integrity, and is intelligent. His views are a refreshing change from Cannon's old, tired ways.
It is time for a change.
Join me in voting for Chaffetz!
Anonymous | 10:00 a.m. June 17, 2008
I also worked with Chaffetz, and the company we worked at together had owners
and leaders who supported Cannon. In fact, they sent around a company-wide email
telling everyone their views in supporting Cannon. Coming from the owners and
executives of the company, I thought that was VERY inappropriate! Cannon has
used his "old-boys network" to influence Utah employers and their
employees like this for years. It is a subtle form of corruption and it needs to
be stopped.
If you have any conscience at all, Vote for Chaffetz!
If you have any conscience at all, Vote for Chaffetz!
UTmom | 11:41 a.m. June 17, 2008
I believe that EVERY person in congress should be thrown out. They blaime the
president (some of which he does deserve, but not all) for everything and refuse
to acknowledge that when it comes to legislation, they have more power. I will
not vote for Cannon again. I did that two years ago and feel it was a mistake.
If I feel Chaffetz isn't a strong enough conservative, I could vote 3rd
party or dem in November. Either way, Cannon needs to go.
UTmom | 11:49 a.m. June 17, 2008
I also wanted to say that Benion Spencer would never get my vote. Anyone who has
to stoop to Bush-hating has NO standing. Old news, no new ideas. Again, the dems
get caught up in their hatred of Bush. Whatever.
Anonymous | 4:45 p.m. June 17, 2008
We just need to flush D.C.
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