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Lawyers for FLDS may sue over raid
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David K. | 10:16 a.m. June 13, 2008
Hey well deserved, I personally believe that all the FLDS (self proclaimed
prophets) leaders have been teengage girl sex molesters, just like your precious
Warren Jeffs. Get a life!!!!!!!
stand up for the innocent | 10:29 a.m. June 13, 2008
"Mark Shurtlift has also powered his accusations on his hatred for these
people, same with Terry Godard, Senator Reid, etc."
The persons listed above are making up for the officials that were in office years ago and did nothing to help young women. Make that young men who were thrown out of the FLDS and the young women who ran away from the compound only to be forced to go back to the FLDS.
The persons listed above are making up for the officials that were in office years ago and did nothing to help young women. Make that young men who were thrown out of the FLDS and the young women who ran away from the compound only to be forced to go back to the FLDS.
Anonymous | 10:39 a.m. June 13, 2008
Hum?
Big difference in a neighborhood and an armed compound.
I don't have an armed guard in a tower to prevent people from entering or leaving my neighborhood.
.
Bruce, would you please furnish the link or proof of this: There are records of one child left in a walker for so many hours he/she dehydrated and had to be hospitalized while in one of CPS's stockades
RECORDS PLEASE.
Big difference in a neighborhood and an armed compound.
I don't have an armed guard in a tower to prevent people from entering or leaving my neighborhood.
.
Bruce, would you please furnish the link or proof of this: There are records of one child left in a walker for so many hours he/she dehydrated and had to be hospitalized while in one of CPS's stockades
RECORDS PLEASE.
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 10:49 a.m. June 13, 2008
With so many of the children having fumarase deficiency
This should be considered a high rate of child abuse.
Their inbreeding is causing these little children a life time of pain and suffering.
This should be considered a high rate of child abuse.
Their inbreeding is causing these little children a life time of pain and suffering.
Anonymous | 11:03 a.m. June 13, 2008
To everyone who thinks suing CPS will expose the FLDS' supposed crimes.
Please get off it. They busted into this ranch stole all the material they could
get their hands, interviewed all the children, did full body x-rays looking for
more proof they couldn't find and STILL can't come up with anything.
Sorry Betty, I'm not FLDS either, I'm in VA and I can see when a bunch of do-gooders think it's their right to force others to believe the same way they do concerning the raising of their children.
There is a purpose for CPS, but unfortunately wasting all this effort/time/money on FLDS has probably let 400+ other kids die who really did need "rescuing" and left long lasting emotional scars on the FLDS children who were needlessly ripped from their parents.
Sue, sue, sue! It's the only way to stop the abuse (the real abuse that's going on here from the state of Texas)
Sorry Betty, I'm not FLDS either, I'm in VA and I can see when a bunch of do-gooders think it's their right to force others to believe the same way they do concerning the raising of their children.
There is a purpose for CPS, but unfortunately wasting all this effort/time/money on FLDS has probably let 400+ other kids die who really did need "rescuing" and left long lasting emotional scars on the FLDS children who were needlessly ripped from their parents.
Sue, sue, sue! It's the only way to stop the abuse (the real abuse that's going on here from the state of Texas)
never happen | 11:17 a.m. June 13, 2008
in order for the FLDS to sue, they would expose their life style to be seen in
the harsh light of reality. very unlikely. secrecy and isolation is their stock
in trade....
thats why they built compounds. to hide what they are doing.
thats why they built compounds. to hide what they are doing.
Alex | 11:28 a.m. June 13, 2008
While the FLDS have every reason to sue based upon what has happened, they
should be careful not to get greedy. My dad once told me, "Pigs get fat,
but hogs get slaughtered." Remember FLDS, if you reach for too much in a
law suit, any information the state brings forward is going to make your lawsuit
look frivolous. If you sue for what is just (no more, no less), then you will
probably be fine and get some compensation.
Alex | 11:35 a.m. June 13, 2008
never happen:
"in order for the FLDS to sue, they would expose their life style to be seen in the harsh light of reality. very unlikely. secrecy and isolation is their stock in trade....
thats why they built compounds. to hide what they are doing. "
That is why a lawsuit could be very revealing. Lets see what happens.
"in order for the FLDS to sue, they would expose their life style to be seen in the harsh light of reality. very unlikely. secrecy and isolation is their stock in trade....
thats why they built compounds. to hide what they are doing. "
That is why a lawsuit could be very revealing. Lets see what happens.
Spinazi | 11:35 a.m. June 13, 2008
The letter from the physician in Texas (posted above) was written during the
children's captivity and was released by the Governor's office under
the freedom of information law. There were hundreds of letters and in an early
count revealed that 449 were critical of the State while only 32 were in
support.
A visitor | 11:50 a.m. June 13, 2008
regarding the baby that was left in the stroller by CPS with no food, water, or
attention for 24 hours and ended up in a hospital:
This was recorded on one of nine reports by employees of the Hill Country Community Mental Health-Mental Retardation Center, who were assisting CPS at the holding area in San Angelo.
Here's another excerpt from the reports of mistreatment by CPS staff:
�I have worked in Domestic Violence/Sexual Abuse programming for over 20 years and have never seen women and children treated this poorly�
after that, as reported in Texas papers:
"To respond to the allegations, CPS spokesman Patrick Crimmins asked for a list of written questions and replied with a two-sentence e-mail.
�We have received no complaints from Hill Country MHMR,� Crimmins wrote Thursday."
The reports by the Hill Country Center workers were released by Jack Dawson, a Comal County commissioner, to the San Antonio Express-News. They have been published widely. I first found reference to them in a SLT article, and then went to papers in Texas to read the reports myself.
This was recorded on one of nine reports by employees of the Hill Country Community Mental Health-Mental Retardation Center, who were assisting CPS at the holding area in San Angelo.
Here's another excerpt from the reports of mistreatment by CPS staff:
�I have worked in Domestic Violence/Sexual Abuse programming for over 20 years and have never seen women and children treated this poorly�
after that, as reported in Texas papers:
"To respond to the allegations, CPS spokesman Patrick Crimmins asked for a list of written questions and replied with a two-sentence e-mail.
�We have received no complaints from Hill Country MHMR,� Crimmins wrote Thursday."
The reports by the Hill Country Center workers were released by Jack Dawson, a Comal County commissioner, to the San Antonio Express-News. They have been published widely. I first found reference to them in a SLT article, and then went to papers in Texas to read the reports myself.
Doug Short | 11:57 a.m. June 13, 2008
The FLDS should call Keith Barton, "It's just that easy".
Documentation | 11:59 a.m. June 13, 2008
Someone was asking for documentation about the baby left in the stroller at the
Coliseum. It was in a Deseret News article By Brian West, Published: Tuesday,
May 13, 2008 4:28 p.m. MDT.
The Deseret News also published an article soon after the children were taken from the Coliseum stating that there were reports that nine children had been hospitalized, but that attorneys were not able to get information from CPS over the weekend. I waited for news to see a follow-up on that but the following Monday was devoted to the "broken bones" story and the hospitalized children were never mentioned again.
I posted (above at 3:43am) the letter from the ER physician in Alvin, Texas who was upset by the condition of one baby he had seen. Read that for documentation of child abuse.
The Deseret News also published an article soon after the children were taken from the Coliseum stating that there were reports that nine children had been hospitalized, but that attorneys were not able to get information from CPS over the weekend. I waited for news to see a follow-up on that but the following Monday was devoted to the "broken bones" story and the hospitalized children were never mentioned again.
I posted (above at 3:43am) the letter from the ER physician in Alvin, Texas who was upset by the condition of one baby he had seen. Read that for documentation of child abuse.
mistereporter | 11:59 a.m. June 13, 2008
Posted by "Go ahead and sue" 8:53 a.m.
"If you want your comments read, learn basic grammar and sentence structure. I wonder if some of these posters have an education beyond the second grade."
Ad hominy grits
"If you want your comments read, learn basic grammar and sentence structure. I wonder if some of these posters have an education beyond the second grade."
Ad hominy grits
What Armed Guard Tower? | 11:59 a.m. June 13, 2008
Hey,
I keep hearing about the armed guard tower at the YFZ "compound." Could someone please tell me where to find a picture of it? I've looked and looked and can't find anything. I'd post a URL to a bunch of pictures, but DN doesn't allow urls.
I keep hearing about the armed guard tower at the YFZ "compound." Could someone please tell me where to find a picture of it? I've looked and looked and can't find anything. I'd post a URL to a bunch of pictures, but DN doesn't allow urls.
Phil | 12:13 p.m. June 13, 2008
It is about time.
Phil | 12:15 p.m. June 13, 2008
It is so awesome that a judge in Austin put a restraining order to any CPS
officials who might bother one FLDS family.
zxcvbnm | 12:17 p.m. June 13, 2008
Just in case the anti pologamy people don't get it.
If you don't agree with pologamy...don't practice pologamy.
The anti pologamy laws are virtually dead since the consensual sex rulings by SCOTUS.......just as dead as the Texas laws that forbid pliers in the back pocket still on the books.
So get over it people.....if you disagree with gay unions, abortion rights, driveing 70mph........just don't do it. Noone is making anyone practice pologamy.
You guys go to your church and believe in the great green jellybean if you want to. I will keep following the ex hitler youth guy that wears the beanie and the funny dress. Even my kids will follow the german guy that lives in Italy or I will cut them out of my will.......it's their choice.
See .......just everyone worshiping as they please and sticking their nose in their own church and we will be to busy praying to worry about who sleeps with who.
to Anonymous at 10:49 | 12:19 p.m. June 13, 2008
I'm not FLDS, but your comment is unbelievable. Are those who have
children born with genetic disorders to be considered child abusers now?
For Heaven's sake--how cruel you are. Genetic disorders are unpredictable at best. We have a DS son--we have been cricicized for having a baby in our forties (never mind that the largest number of DS babies come to young women, statistically). Many women in my family had multiple miscarriages and fertility problems for several generations--it wasn't until my daughter was diagnosed with some blood problems that we even considered that it MIGHT be genetic in nature--we still don't know. Would you forbid my grandchildren to marry and have children?
Seems to me it was the Nazis who wanted to allow only the perfect to breed on! Maybe we should abort all "substandard" babies!
Take a list of the contributors to history who have had handicaps of one kind or another before you go in the direction you are headed.
Now that fumarese deficiency (it shows up in some Muslim families from North Africa and in Scandinavia, some non-related) is understood, the FLDS, like the Amish, will probably consider this.
To call this child abuse--NO!
For Heaven's sake--how cruel you are. Genetic disorders are unpredictable at best. We have a DS son--we have been cricicized for having a baby in our forties (never mind that the largest number of DS babies come to young women, statistically). Many women in my family had multiple miscarriages and fertility problems for several generations--it wasn't until my daughter was diagnosed with some blood problems that we even considered that it MIGHT be genetic in nature--we still don't know. Would you forbid my grandchildren to marry and have children?
Seems to me it was the Nazis who wanted to allow only the perfect to breed on! Maybe we should abort all "substandard" babies!
Take a list of the contributors to history who have had handicaps of one kind or another before you go in the direction you are headed.
Now that fumarese deficiency (it shows up in some Muslim families from North Africa and in Scandinavia, some non-related) is understood, the FLDS, like the Amish, will probably consider this.
To call this child abuse--NO!
Go Figure | 12:21 p.m. June 13, 2008
Seems like the FLDS info I read says the FLDS builds these complexes to isolate
themselves from the worldy people. And from what just happeded to them - I
DON"T BLAME THEM!
commonsense | 12:36 p.m. June 13, 2008
They broke the door of the temple down because?
Flds had the key, all they had to do was open it. They had a search warrant.
Flds had the key, all they had to do was open it. They had a search warrant.
commonsense | 12:45 p.m. June 13, 2008
So is this working?
commonsense | 12:52 p.m. June 13, 2008
zxbvm
Im afraid not. The issue of polygamy , the supreme court has already decided. In fact in 1998 a man practing polygamy took his case to the Supreme Court and LOST! And Lawerence vs Texas was Two ADULT males in consentual relationship. Not a 40yr old man and a 16 yr old girl.
Until the supreme court of the United States overturns polygamy, it isnt legal,
Im afraid not. The issue of polygamy , the supreme court has already decided. In fact in 1998 a man practing polygamy took his case to the Supreme Court and LOST! And Lawerence vs Texas was Two ADULT males in consentual relationship. Not a 40yr old man and a 16 yr old girl.
Until the supreme court of the United States overturns polygamy, it isnt legal,
veedub | 12:54 p.m. June 13, 2008
How ironic (sadly) it is that in trying to "rescue" some children from
child abuse, the state of Texas has managed to inflict abuse and assault on
several hundred children and their parents.
I'm not FLDS, nor supportive of polygamy or of child abuse of any kind, but these things need to be handled as evidence is discovered, one case at a time, not by attacking a huge group and treating them as if they are all guilty. Arizona and Utah have been doing that aggressively for several years, even though they've been accused of being too soft on the FLDS. Now the sight of Texas being sued (and probably losing)will probably set those efforts back and give those who are abusers even more confidence that God is protecting them.
I'm not FLDS, nor supportive of polygamy or of child abuse of any kind, but these things need to be handled as evidence is discovered, one case at a time, not by attacking a huge group and treating them as if they are all guilty. Arizona and Utah have been doing that aggressively for several years, even though they've been accused of being too soft on the FLDS. Now the sight of Texas being sued (and probably losing)will probably set those efforts back and give those who are abusers even more confidence that God is protecting them.
DC | 1:03 p.m. June 13, 2008
To Documentation
Thank you for the prompt reference to the evidence for the child in the walker story and for your earlier posting of the ER physician's letter recently released from the Texas Governor's office under a Freedom of Information Act request. Again, having watched this comment board from the other side of the country for a long time, it seems that when CPS critics are asked for their evidence they can produce it promptly, and when CPS supporters are asked for their evidence they either ignore the question, refer to unsubstantiated stories placed on the internet by disaffected former FLDS members, or respond that CPS has evidence it for some reason hasn't yet revealed (how these people would know that unless they actually work for CPS and are using this board anonymously to manipulate opinion, is hard to say). For a long time I gave the CPS supporters on this board the benefit of the doubt as to their sincerity, but it is increasingly hard to believe that their bigoted, unsupported and manipulative comments are being offered in good faith.
Thank you for the prompt reference to the evidence for the child in the walker story and for your earlier posting of the ER physician's letter recently released from the Texas Governor's office under a Freedom of Information Act request. Again, having watched this comment board from the other side of the country for a long time, it seems that when CPS critics are asked for their evidence they can produce it promptly, and when CPS supporters are asked for their evidence they either ignore the question, refer to unsubstantiated stories placed on the internet by disaffected former FLDS members, or respond that CPS has evidence it for some reason hasn't yet revealed (how these people would know that unless they actually work for CPS and are using this board anonymously to manipulate opinion, is hard to say). For a long time I gave the CPS supporters on this board the benefit of the doubt as to their sincerity, but it is increasingly hard to believe that their bigoted, unsupported and manipulative comments are being offered in good faith.
Guard Tower | 1:08 p.m. June 13, 2008
Some people still insist that the entire compound all 1700 acres is surrounded
by a concrete wall, and when I posted a picture of the simple wire fence and
ordinary metal gate at the entrance the poster said "that isn't a
picture of the compound because there is no guard tower and no concrete wall.
Use the google image search using the terms YFZ and gate.
What to do? | 1:09 p.m. June 13, 2008
common sense:
They broke the door of the temple down because?
Flds had the key, all they had to do was open it. They had a search warrant.
At Waco they didn't bother breaking the front door down, they just shot holes in it. When they did finally open it, it was with a tank. And of course, as the place was burning down at the end, the government agency involved ran their own flag up the flag pole as a symbol of victory.
What a disappointment it must have been to the heavily armed hordes that conducted the raid on YFZ ranch, that the FLDS are peaceful and polite, and prayed while their temple was being desecrated while the snipers watched from their positions. They didn't get play "battle."
They broke the door of the temple down because?
Flds had the key, all they had to do was open it. They had a search warrant.
At Waco they didn't bother breaking the front door down, they just shot holes in it. When they did finally open it, it was with a tank. And of course, as the place was burning down at the end, the government agency involved ran their own flag up the flag pole as a symbol of victory.
What a disappointment it must have been to the heavily armed hordes that conducted the raid on YFZ ranch, that the FLDS are peaceful and polite, and prayed while their temple was being desecrated while the snipers watched from their positions. They didn't get play "battle."
FLDS Inbreeding | 1:10 p.m. June 13, 2008
Go Read: Jonh Hollenhorse on D News Feb.8 2006
According to experts and former Jeffs followers, the cause of the birth defect is clear: Intermarriage among close relatives is producing children who have two copies of a recessive gene for a debilitating condition called Fumarase Deficiency.
They predict the scale of the problem will increas dramatically in the future.
According to experts and former Jeffs followers, the cause of the birth defect is clear: Intermarriage among close relatives is producing children who have two copies of a recessive gene for a debilitating condition called Fumarase Deficiency.
They predict the scale of the problem will increas dramatically in the future.
re; go figure | 1:11 p.m. June 13, 2008
seem like the FLDS info I read says the FLDS builds these compounds so the
worldly people won't know about the teen brides , polygamy,
incest...etc.
and to the person that said genetic disorders are unpredictable???
the most cases of Fumarase in the world are out in hildale/colorado city
I guess as long as the arizona medicaid picks up the tab...keep inbreeding
and to the person that said genetic disorders are unpredictable???
the most cases of Fumarase in the world are out in hildale/colorado city
I guess as long as the arizona medicaid picks up the tab...keep inbreeding
Anonymous | 1:16 p.m. June 13, 2008
Yes, it is child abuse. Why would anyone want to put that on a child, except for
their own selfish desires?
You need to google "fumarese deficiency ", study it, then come back and tell me it isn't child abuse.
I would never have had children, if there was any remote idea that I would pass a disease on to them.
I guess you think it's ok.
You need to google "fumarese deficiency ", study it, then come back and tell me it isn't child abuse.
I would never have had children, if there was any remote idea that I would pass a disease on to them.
I guess you think it's ok.
commonsense | 1:22 p.m. June 13, 2008
IM in no way affiliated with cps or any other government body. And the stories
of FLDS being abusive to children isnt a new one. People can live in communes
all they want as long as they follow state laws, which these people didnt. And
they knew the law had changed in 2005. But were marrying girls 16yrs old. Maybe
we should ALL wait till ALL the 1000 boxes of evidence has been gone through
before we judge what authorities did.
commonsense | 1:30 p.m. June 13, 2008
Do you people ever take note of experts in the field of fumarese deficency??
These experts have even talked to FLDS about inbreeding. Their reaction, pretty
much if it happens , its Gods will. NO!! it isnt Gods will for incest to take
place. Flds has the largest population of fumarese in the world. Doesnt that
tell you something? Isnt that intended child abuse?
I am serious! | 1:34 p.m. June 13, 2008
This inbreeding needs to stop. It has been the way of the FLDS church ever since
they broke away from the LDS church a 100 years ago. The sins of the fathers are
definitely taking a large impact on these people gene factory. Maybe if they get
a little money from suing Texas they can all go to school and learn how
disgusting inbreeding is. To FLDS: This is not the way to keep your blood clean
and un-spotted by the rest of the world. It's really not working well for
you. Besides, if you keep kicking the young boys out of your cult, you must be
planning to go extinct.
To: commonsense | 1:36 p.m. June 13, 2008
The FLDS are openly practicing plural marriage and if prosecution were a
guaranteed success the attorneys general for Utah, Arizona, and Texas would not
have bothered with child abuse charges, nor would they have asked the Justice
Department to consider RICO charges. It is obvious that the lawyers don't
think prosecuting polygamy is the way to destroy the FLDS church.
commonsense | 1:46 p.m. June 13, 2008
I beleive all of the above is taking place. RICO should be investigated. And
dont hold your breath, there have been TWO men in Texas prosecuted this last
year for bigamy. It CAN happen. And im sure their evidence for sexual abuse
also. Attorney Generals Office isnt going to disclose publicly the evidence they
have, and they shouldnt, till they have all their ducks in a row.
What the public is getting now is newspaper reports, and most of those are heresay.
What the public is getting now is newspaper reports, and most of those are heresay.
to Anonymous at 1:16 | 1:50 p.m. June 13, 2008
I HAVE studied fumarese deficiency, also some of the disorders the Amish
struggle with. Genetic disorders ARE unpredictable--many of them are highly
recessive, so they do show up unpredictably.
It wasn't until 1959 that the cause of Downs was identified. Cystic fibrosis is recessive. Friends had no idea they carried the genes until a couple of kids had it--others didn't. Some people with no known family history of identified disorders have children born with genetic abnormalities. Autism used to be thought to be emotionally based--now a genetic connection is being studied--family in my area have 3 autistic kids and 2 normal. Are they child abusers suddenly?
Then there are mutations of genes to mix up things. I'd be interested to know where the gene for fumarase deficiency came from and why it is apparently surfacing now in such widely separated parts of the world as North Africa, Scandinavia, and Utah/AZ. Any possible connection with being a downwinder?
If I were FLDS, I'd certainly be studying this disorder and recommending genetic testing and careful marrying. Hopefully they will begin to do this.
But until EVERYONE is genetically tested (and every possible disorder mapped) perhaps none of us should breed.
It wasn't until 1959 that the cause of Downs was identified. Cystic fibrosis is recessive. Friends had no idea they carried the genes until a couple of kids had it--others didn't. Some people with no known family history of identified disorders have children born with genetic abnormalities. Autism used to be thought to be emotionally based--now a genetic connection is being studied--family in my area have 3 autistic kids and 2 normal. Are they child abusers suddenly?
Then there are mutations of genes to mix up things. I'd be interested to know where the gene for fumarase deficiency came from and why it is apparently surfacing now in such widely separated parts of the world as North Africa, Scandinavia, and Utah/AZ. Any possible connection with being a downwinder?
If I were FLDS, I'd certainly be studying this disorder and recommending genetic testing and careful marrying. Hopefully they will begin to do this.
But until EVERYONE is genetically tested (and every possible disorder mapped) perhaps none of us should breed.
Brain Blockage | 1:50 p.m. June 13, 2008
To all the above
The FLDS are so brainwashed that they would never see the truth even if God was standing right before them. They refuse to listen. They want to continue to believe in all their, false, child raping, prophets. I feel just a bit sorry for the younger FLDS people, who refuse to listen, who as well have such a great amount of mental blockage.
The FLDS are so brainwashed that they would never see the truth even if God was standing right before them. They refuse to listen. They want to continue to believe in all their, false, child raping, prophets. I feel just a bit sorry for the younger FLDS people, who refuse to listen, who as well have such a great amount of mental blockage.
commonsense | 1:53 p.m. June 13, 2008
I dont beleive in destroying anyone! But their way of life is destroying young
minds, that could possibly be the next research scientist, or Chemist. Children
All Children should have the opportunity to decide for themselves if they want
education, or monogomous or plural relationships without the fear of losing
thier families if they choose wrong.
Re: Well Deserved | 1:59 p.m. June 13, 2008
Wouldn't it be interesting to know who you really are?
Maybe someone like Rozita Swinton? There doesn't seem to be a problem finding people who will pose as FLDS.
Not to mention those who know how to do sloppy photo editing. Some things I have seen in the media are obviously edited to look like something they are not.
Maybe someone like Rozita Swinton? There doesn't seem to be a problem finding people who will pose as FLDS.
Not to mention those who know how to do sloppy photo editing. Some things I have seen in the media are obviously edited to look like something they are not.
DC | 2:10 p.m. June 13, 2008
To commonsense (and others)
The evidence I have seen certainly leads me to agree with you that fumerase deficiency is a serious problem related to marriages among the members of the FLDS community who are descendants (now rather distant descendants) of a founding FLDS member who had a gene that carried the disorder. But I don't quite see how you get from that fact to your evident hate for the FLDS. Rather than conclude that we ought to stamp out their religious beliefs and eradicate the community, isn't it more natural to conclude that if we stopped demonizing these people and their religious beliefs there would be more interaction between them and the rest of society, increasing the possibility of broader intermarriage? They stick to themselves because the broader society has once in every generation gone in and tried to crush them (the Short Creek raid in the 50s and now this disgusting and juvenile "Don't Mess with Texas" bigotry). If we didn't give them good cause to fear us, maybe they would be less afraid.
The evidence I have seen certainly leads me to agree with you that fumerase deficiency is a serious problem related to marriages among the members of the FLDS community who are descendants (now rather distant descendants) of a founding FLDS member who had a gene that carried the disorder. But I don't quite see how you get from that fact to your evident hate for the FLDS. Rather than conclude that we ought to stamp out their religious beliefs and eradicate the community, isn't it more natural to conclude that if we stopped demonizing these people and their religious beliefs there would be more interaction between them and the rest of society, increasing the possibility of broader intermarriage? They stick to themselves because the broader society has once in every generation gone in and tried to crush them (the Short Creek raid in the 50s and now this disgusting and juvenile "Don't Mess with Texas" bigotry). If we didn't give them good cause to fear us, maybe they would be less afraid.
Amish | 2:15 p.m. June 13, 2008
We are nothing like FLDS. WE DO NO NOT PRACTICE POLYGAMY OR SEXUALLY ABUSE
TEENAGE GIRLS! No similarities whatsoever. You FLDS need to stop trying to bring
everyone else into your living evil hell.
commonsense | 2:15 p.m. June 13, 2008
Your not comparing apples to apples here. They know about the genetic problem,
theyve been told since early 90's. It hasnt made any difference to them.
They just continue inbreeding with inner family members. Austim was around long
before they had a name for it. So was downs. They arent RARE genetic disorders,
like Fumerase is. And it only happens through inbreeding. Yes, because theyve
been told and they know,, they should of stopped this LONG ago
jeeze | 2:20 p.m. June 13, 2008
to the person that studied Fumarase, did you skip the chapter about if two
parents with the recessive gene keep having kids with Fumarase
deficiency?...that isn't unpredictable.
Did you study Fumarase long enough to even know how to spell the word?
Did you study Fumarase long enough to even know how to spell the word?
for more study | 2:24 p.m. June 13, 2008
There is an unusually high incidence of fumarase deficiency in the southwestern
United States among members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter Day Saints (FLDS), a religious community that practices inbreeding and
polygamy. The genetic defect was traced to 1 of the community's founding
patriarchs, the late Joseph Smith Jessop, and the first of his plural wives, who
had 14 children together
DC | 2:27 p.m. June 13, 2008
To commonsense
If you don't believe in destroying anyone, why are you recommending the destruction of this community? I think what you must mean is that you don't believe in destroying anyone but the FLDS. You say that what the public is getting now are newspaper reports based on hearsay. But just on today's comment board alone we have had citations from other posters to a number of pieces of evidence from a variety of sources. The only people I see relying on hearsay -- often of the vilest and most disreputable kind -- are those supporting the CPS. You believe and repeat every disgusting thing you read on the internet about people whom you have never met and about whom you have no basis to have any opinion, but you say the rest of us should wait "until ALL the 1000 boxes of evidence have been gone through" before judging the authorities. But that is all we ever asked of the authorities -- that they wait until they have gone through the evidence before condemning and traumatizing an entire community. The authorities reached their conclusions before they had evidence, and so have you.
If you don't believe in destroying anyone, why are you recommending the destruction of this community? I think what you must mean is that you don't believe in destroying anyone but the FLDS. You say that what the public is getting now are newspaper reports based on hearsay. But just on today's comment board alone we have had citations from other posters to a number of pieces of evidence from a variety of sources. The only people I see relying on hearsay -- often of the vilest and most disreputable kind -- are those supporting the CPS. You believe and repeat every disgusting thing you read on the internet about people whom you have never met and about whom you have no basis to have any opinion, but you say the rest of us should wait "until ALL the 1000 boxes of evidence have been gone through" before judging the authorities. But that is all we ever asked of the authorities -- that they wait until they have gone through the evidence before condemning and traumatizing an entire community. The authorities reached their conclusions before they had evidence, and so have you.
commonsense | 2:27 p.m. June 13, 2008
I would like to know what FLDS would sue the state of Texas for? They didnt pay
for attorneys or adlitums? Their children werent harmed physically. In fact
lots of the Children found some things they actually enjoyed in the shelters
where they were. Things like bicycles, toys, and one shelter had sewing machines
donated so the girls could sew. I know Rod Parker is really wanting to make a
name for himself, but I dont think he will do that off the state of texas.
Conspiracy Theory #1 | 2:32 p.m. June 13, 2008
Give Rozita a break. She is most likely a convenient scapegoat with a record of
making false claims. Doran and his goon squad needed a pretense to raid the
ranch and her past history provided it. She most likely never even made the
suspected call. If she did, would not have charges been laid against her by
now? The phone CALL was a hoax, not the CALLER. She is real. The call was
not.
celia | 2:35 p.m. June 13, 2008
I hope FLDS wins big $ from Texas.
Texas needs to learn not to trample on peoples lives.
WACO should have been a lesson, but sadly it was not.
Make an example of Texas. Hit the bigots where it hurts, in their pocketbook.
Texas needs to learn not to trample on peoples lives.
WACO should have been a lesson, but sadly it was not.
Make an example of Texas. Hit the bigots where it hurts, in their pocketbook.
COSMO | 2:38 p.m. June 13, 2008
Re:commonsense;would that you were concerned as much
for the 40+ million aborted children,that could have
been and done all that "You",seem so concerned about.
Also, maybe we can create a government office for acceptable parenting and religion. You can be its first "Czar". Hark, I think I heard someone shout,
" Let the Goosestepping begin".
for the 40+ million aborted children,that could have
been and done all that "You",seem so concerned about.
Also, maybe we can create a government office for acceptable parenting and religion. You can be its first "Czar". Hark, I think I heard someone shout,
" Let the Goosestepping begin".
bring on the lawsuit, FLDS | 2:39 p.m. June 13, 2008
"To everyone who thinks suing CPS will expose the FLDS' supposed
crimes. Please get off it. They busted into this ranch stole all the material
they could get their hands, interviewed all the children, did full body x-rays
looking for more proof they couldn't find and STILL can't come up with
anything."
How is it that you know what evidence CPS has on the FLDS? Do you have inside information that the rest of the public is not privy to?
I'm quite confident that CPS and the State of Texas have enough evidence for a good, solid defense.
How is it that you know what evidence CPS has on the FLDS? Do you have inside information that the rest of the public is not privy to?
I'm quite confident that CPS and the State of Texas have enough evidence for a good, solid defense.
Re:inbreeding | 2:40 p.m. June 13, 2008
We consider inbreeding in people "disgusting" because it seems so
against the family structure and bonds. That's a social, emotional, and
perhaps religious matter.
The marriage of first cousins in SOME states in the U.S. is forbidden because of genetic concerns (not social, emotional, or religious ones)--in other states it isn't.
But, strictly from a scientific standpoint, animal breeders have inbred for years and years. And what happens is that you can either fix good genes or bad ones, depending on the genetic material you start with.
The royal families of Europe have inbreed for centuries with some notable diseases perpetuated.
Of course, when you are breeding animals, you can kill the really bad ones, castrate the males and not breed the females in lines you don't want to breed on.
People who carry genetic issues today often have their fetuses tested and abort the handicapped ones--an option not open to members of some religious faiths.
I, personally, don't know anybody with a genetically handicapped child who is related to their spouses and to say that anyone who has children with recessive characteristics is inbred, as was said in posts a couple of weeks ago, is a mistake.
The marriage of first cousins in SOME states in the U.S. is forbidden because of genetic concerns (not social, emotional, or religious ones)--in other states it isn't.
But, strictly from a scientific standpoint, animal breeders have inbred for years and years. And what happens is that you can either fix good genes or bad ones, depending on the genetic material you start with.
The royal families of Europe have inbreed for centuries with some notable diseases perpetuated.
Of course, when you are breeding animals, you can kill the really bad ones, castrate the males and not breed the females in lines you don't want to breed on.
People who carry genetic issues today often have their fetuses tested and abort the handicapped ones--an option not open to members of some religious faiths.
I, personally, don't know anybody with a genetically handicapped child who is related to their spouses and to say that anyone who has children with recessive characteristics is inbred, as was said in posts a couple of weeks ago, is a mistake.
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