Reader comments
Utah liquor-control panel urged to change private-club rules
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Ronald A. Young | 4:06 a.m. June 12, 2008
As much control on Liquor as possible is a good thing. Human beings do Not Need
Liquor. It may be legal and to Ban it is not a good thing, some elements of
society, want to and will get either High or Drunk or both regardless of the Law
and then they will Drive Drunk or do other things that they would otherwise Not
Do. "I did it because I was Drunk." You do not have to make it easy
for people to do the wrong thing. Utah�s Liquor Laws do Not
have to be Liberalized. There is No need to change them. In some places
Utah's Laws Regarding Liquor are greatly admired. I never could figure out
how you can put a Bar on a Road or Highway and then complain about people
Driving Drunk. No Law says that you have to make it easier for people to drink.
It maybe a Private Club but its a Public Road. What you think of Liberalized
Liquor Laws if its you Loved One is Dying in the Road as a result of A Drunk
Driving On Purpose. (A traffic accident while drunk is an "on purpose"
Not an accident.
awesomeron | 4:22 a.m. June 12, 2008
You should take a Close Look, at the Elements of the Society that want the
Liquor Laws changed. Then act accordingly. Utah has always had Control At The
Point Of Sale it helps with how much is Sold and helps Control Sales To Minors.
I remember when you could Drink at 18 and Not Vote Till 21. For some reason
being Old enough to Defend America gave a person some kind of right to Drink.
The Military does Not Tax Liquor bought on Base. They more then should, Tobacco
also. Access to Liquor decreases Moral and Social Controls, gives a person an
excuse for lack of accountability. The more Controls On Liquor the Better. In
Oregon you could make 200 gallons of Wine a year for your own use. Some people
very rarely took a Bath. Showers Maybe ,but the Bath Tub had a very special
purpose.
Comments continue below
Russ Fuller | 5:26 a.m. June 12, 2008
I think those advocating that the law should be changed should quit saying that
tourism will be hurt
and convention business is down. Give us specifics!
Which conventions didn't come because of the liquor law? Which companies didn't come to Utah because of the liquor law? Is tourism really hurt in our state because of the liquor law? How do you really measure that. Society in general is in enough trouble across the country and around the world because of liquor and the problems this beverage of choice causes in homes, businesses, etc. Do we really need to make the change?
and convention business is down. Give us specifics!
Which conventions didn't come because of the liquor law? Which companies didn't come to Utah because of the liquor law? Is tourism really hurt in our state because of the liquor law? How do you really measure that. Society in general is in enough trouble across the country and around the world because of liquor and the problems this beverage of choice causes in homes, businesses, etc. Do we really need to make the change?
MHP | 6:33 a.m. June 12, 2008
On liquor, it is as if the state considers the drinking populace as children, or
one without intelligence to be stewards of our own life, that the state must
tell us how to live our lives. Stop treating us like immature idiots. Dissolve
the board, save the state some money.
Dave | 6:49 a.m. June 12, 2008
I don't agree with the reasoning! If other business won't relocate
here because of quirky liquor laws, do we need that business here.
Has everyone noticed? Salt Lake, Provo and Ogden have merged, there are many choices of every kind of business choose from. What is the business that is not going to relocate here? Look at all the houses and business that exist. I really think we can get along without a business or people that won't come here because of "quirky" laws.
Mormon pioneers were burned, booted, persecuted out of every places they'd lived for living conservatively. They came to the worst place in the US to live the way they desired and made it blossom.
Don't call my state messed up, you don't like it, LEAVE there are plenty of roads out of town with places you'd like. Try California, it is great, I lived in San Diego they have a better beach than GSL. Try Nevada, you can gamble and get rich on it. You can also buy liquor, lots of it....til your dead.
PLEASE LEAVE if you aren't happy here.
Has everyone noticed? Salt Lake, Provo and Ogden have merged, there are many choices of every kind of business choose from. What is the business that is not going to relocate here? Look at all the houses and business that exist. I really think we can get along without a business or people that won't come here because of "quirky" laws.
Mormon pioneers were burned, booted, persecuted out of every places they'd lived for living conservatively. They came to the worst place in the US to live the way they desired and made it blossom.
Don't call my state messed up, you don't like it, LEAVE there are plenty of roads out of town with places you'd like. Try California, it is great, I lived in San Diego they have a better beach than GSL. Try Nevada, you can gamble and get rich on it. You can also buy liquor, lots of it....til your dead.
PLEASE LEAVE if you aren't happy here.
Did leave | 7:11 a.m. June 12, 2008
Dave many people leave Utah. California has benefited by Utah's culture.
These people have brought their talents and creativity to California where we
all have been enriched.
I was going to type a reminder the Christ's first miracle was turning water to wine.
I'm betting when LDS businessman think these laws cost them. these laws will change. Expect the change by next ski season because it's a done deal.
I was going to type a reminder the Christ's first miracle was turning water to wine.
I'm betting when LDS businessman think these laws cost them. these laws will change. Expect the change by next ski season because it's a done deal.
Himself | 7:28 a.m. June 12, 2008
To Dave:
I don't like the the ways some things are done in Utah but I like this place.
You leave.
I don't like the the ways some things are done in Utah but I like this place.
You leave.
Dave | 7:31 a.m. June 12, 2008
awesomeron. I am in your corner on this. I will raise your message and shout it
from the roof tops.
But don't you go to the comments about military and drinking at 18. I don't agree either but they are above your argument. They have experianced more than you ever will! I know, I have been there with them. They deserve at lease that! Your comments in that arena are out of play
But don't you go to the comments about military and drinking at 18. I don't agree either but they are above your argument. They have experianced more than you ever will! I know, I have been there with them. They deserve at lease that! Your comments in that arena are out of play
Hmmm | 7:32 a.m. June 12, 2008
Most of you have it totally wrong. Laws should actually serve a purpose. In
my 25 years here nobody has given me even one legitimate reason for the private
club law. Show me ONE legitimate (not histrionic) purpose of private clubs.
Denice, A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Your diatribe holds no merit.
Denice, A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Your diatribe holds no merit.
To MHP | 7:39 a.m. June 12, 2008
When my children are set free and make the wrong choices there is a consequence
and their freedoms of choice are taken away for a while.
People who drink are treated as children because they are making a stupid choice to dabble in an activity that brings a negative effect not only upon themselves but onto society. So when people choose to do childish things, restrictions are put in place to try to curtail the stupidity from changing into tragedy!
Quid pro Quo! If liquor laws are loosened then DUI and disorderly conduct laws involving boose must tighten. Pulled over for a DUI? 1 week in jail, and 100 hrs community service, $5000 fine. 2nd time DUI? 6 months in jail (and as a result probably lose your job), $30,000 fine, and 1000 hrs community service. 3rd time DUI? 2 yrs in Jail, $100,000 fine.
Oh, by the way these jails would be private and funded by the drunks, and their families.
People who drink are treated as children because they are making a stupid choice to dabble in an activity that brings a negative effect not only upon themselves but onto society. So when people choose to do childish things, restrictions are put in place to try to curtail the stupidity from changing into tragedy!
Quid pro Quo! If liquor laws are loosened then DUI and disorderly conduct laws involving boose must tighten. Pulled over for a DUI? 1 week in jail, and 100 hrs community service, $5000 fine. 2nd time DUI? 6 months in jail (and as a result probably lose your job), $30,000 fine, and 1000 hrs community service. 3rd time DUI? 2 yrs in Jail, $100,000 fine.
Oh, by the way these jails would be private and funded by the drunks, and their families.
Get Real Utah | 7:50 a.m. June 12, 2008
I can't believe what I am reading from the above comments. What narrow
minded people live here. Utah is the ONLY place where private clubs exist.
Getting rid of them wont create more drunks, but will simplify and normalize us.
Doesn't Utah want to be considered a normal place - not an ODD one? I
haven't gone to a private club in years, but would if I didn't have to
fill out a form and join the one club I might like to go to. And you don't
need specifics - only common sense to realize that YES, conventions, tourists,
etc., DO stay away from Utah due to the quirkiness of our laws. And "JUST
LEAVE UTAH if you don't like it", isn't the solution either. Fix
the root cause, police it with existing laws - and we all would be better off.
And when I retire, I most likely will leave Utah, if I can stand to be away from
friends and family, mainly due to the weirdos here like those who have commented
above before me.
Dutchman | 8:08 a.m. June 12, 2008
The Olympics came to Utah and were successful. So what is the big deal with the
existing liquour laws? I have written this several times but still cannot get
an answer to the following question. Three weeks after the tragic Trolley
Square shootings the adults who supplied guns to the minor who shot up the Mall
were apprehended and arrested. There have been several reported incidents where
minors get alcohol from adults and then get drunk and go out and kill people
while driving cars. Why are these adults not prosecuted? If Gov Huntsman and
others want to liberalize Utah's liquor laws then they better put in place
stronger laws to procecute those who break them.
Non-believer | 8:13 a.m. June 12, 2008
Oh please. We have freedom of choice. But the LDS do not want to give freedom
of choice to anyone Their philosophy is "I will give you freedom to choose
and then I will tell you what to choose."
But not to worry. The Church will never allow it. But the Church has to be careful. The minute they show any political bias they will lose their taxfree exemption. The Church will simply manipulate the people on the Board. By the way who do you think controls the gambling in Navada. The majority of the members of the Gambling Commission are Mormon. Navada has a high percentage of LDS members. Wake up and smell the roses.
But not to worry. The Church will never allow it. But the Church has to be careful. The minute they show any political bias they will lose their taxfree exemption. The Church will simply manipulate the people on the Board. By the way who do you think controls the gambling in Navada. The majority of the members of the Gambling Commission are Mormon. Navada has a high percentage of LDS members. Wake up and smell the roses.
uncannygunman | 8:23 a.m. June 12, 2008
I've come to the conclusion that Utah's liquor laws will ALWAYS be
messed up as long as we continue the model that non-drinkers are a special group
that needs protection from drinkers. This idea (embedded in the DABC's
mission statement) is as ridiculous as the common meme that
"self-proclaimed 'tolerant' people really aren't tolerant
because they don't accept intolerant people." The PUBLIC (including
us drinkers) needs protection from the more harmful effects of alcohol
consumption, and the laws should reflect this. But treating non-drinkers as a
special group with some special say in the liquor laws creates a bogus set of
competing interests that really skews the rational lawmaking process. (Notice
I'm not suggesting that non-drinkers be excluded from the process, just
that their voices be heard as a part of the general public.)
So, that being said, get rid of the private club requirement and try not to screw too much else up in the process. Maybe if we successfully fix this issue, we can move on to the next twelve.
So, that being said, get rid of the private club requirement and try not to screw too much else up in the process. Maybe if we successfully fix this issue, we can move on to the next twelve.
Dave | 8:23 a.m. June 12, 2008
To himself,
I am part of the religious MAJORITY here, why would I leave, I am not going to be leaving soon. I do encourage you to continue to grovel in the things you don't like here and I will be happy to continue to press for things that make life less enjoyable to you, for length of time you and those like you continue to live here amongst US.
That may be a pretty wide street
I am part of the religious MAJORITY here, why would I leave, I am not going to be leaving soon. I do encourage you to continue to grovel in the things you don't like here and I will be happy to continue to press for things that make life less enjoyable to you, for length of time you and those like you continue to live here amongst US.
That may be a pretty wide street
Dave | 8:29 a.m. June 12, 2008
to Did Leave,
Yes Calif is nice place with a lot of great people. I enjoyed it too, glad you like it, lots of diversity. I chose to come back after living overseas and all over the US.
The LDS businessmen may rally for the change, I am hoping they don't and will push for this aspect to stay the same or go away. I really don't want to ski among drunk people on the slops and see the throw up from the lift on the snow. Again, that element is polluting my world.
Yes Calif is nice place with a lot of great people. I enjoyed it too, glad you like it, lots of diversity. I chose to come back after living overseas and all over the US.
The LDS businessmen may rally for the change, I am hoping they don't and will push for this aspect to stay the same or go away. I really don't want to ski among drunk people on the slops and see the throw up from the lift on the snow. Again, that element is polluting my world.
Open mind | 8:31 a.m. June 12, 2008
Since most of you who are writing comments have never set foot in a club, you
probably don't know that every time the law has to be explained, it
reinforces a negative image on the LDS Church as having too much influence on
our laws. If you don't believe me, just listen to the people who have to
explain it to those wanting a drink. Filling out an application doesn't
stop people from drinking. It's just an inconvenience for those who run
the private club as well as the person who frequents the club.
Public Good, Not Religion | 8:39 a.m. June 12, 2008
The church and all others are right to try to prevent evils of alcohol and to
lobby for such laws. However the use not abuse of alcohol ought not be
interfered with.
Unless it can be shown that allowing drinking at resturants would increase drunk driving, they allow it.
What ever decision is made, use logic not religion to make it. Every religion has their own brand of restrictions on peoples lives. I certainly wouldn't want a religion to mandate their particular brand of restrictions on my life. If we allow that, recreation would be closed on Saturday and Sunday, both days are claimed as being the sabbath by various religions. Catholics claim
God doesn't like birth control. Should they be allowed to mandate this for all people? Jehovas Witness claim god doesn't want you to get a blood transfusion even if it saves your life. Do we allow them to mandate this for all of us?
I am open to alcohol restrictioins, but we need to make them for the right reasons if we do. The general public good.
Unless it can be shown that allowing drinking at resturants would increase drunk driving, they allow it.
What ever decision is made, use logic not religion to make it. Every religion has their own brand of restrictions on peoples lives. I certainly wouldn't want a religion to mandate their particular brand of restrictions on my life. If we allow that, recreation would be closed on Saturday and Sunday, both days are claimed as being the sabbath by various religions. Catholics claim
God doesn't like birth control. Should they be allowed to mandate this for all people? Jehovas Witness claim god doesn't want you to get a blood transfusion even if it saves your life. Do we allow them to mandate this for all of us?
I am open to alcohol restrictioins, but we need to make them for the right reasons if we do. The general public good.
Kirk R. | 8:44 a.m. June 12, 2008
What value do the private club laws provide? Although I do not drink, it is
about freedom of choice. I believe that most people drink responsibly. It is
amazing to me how many people in Utah don't value free agency and personal
responsibility. Those who want the goverment out of the citizens' personal
lives seem to be the ones advocating for the goverment to be extremely involved
in regulating liquor. Talk about hypocrites. To the moderator: Please publish
my comment. I submitted one the other day and it was never published. Thank
you.
TOURISM GUY | 8:45 a.m. June 12, 2008
Dutchman, if you were a responsible drinker like me, you would know that the
private club law (among other liquor laws) mysteriously disappeared for the
fortnight the olympics came to town.
JAMMER | 8:48 a.m. June 12, 2008
Get Real Utah and Non-believer, I have to totally agree with you. I am an active
member of the LDS faith, and CHOOSE not to drink. Not because my Sunday School
Teacher or my Priest quorum advisor said so. I made that choice. I saw my
friends drink and how they acted and i didn't want to be appart of it. But
it was their choice to drink and you know what? Thay are still my friends. If
people are so worried that if they loosen the liqour laws that it will make kids
drink, chances are they have already experimented with it and were/are under
age. I do agree that they should increase the penalty for DUI, but parents need
to take more of an effort talking to their children about alcohol, drugs, and
other things. If they make that choice not to do certain things at an early age,
chances are pretty good that they won't.
CB_ATC | 8:52 a.m. June 12, 2008
I bam moving to Utah soon...can someone explain the "private clubs"?
how much does it cost for membership?
Bert | 8:58 a.m. June 12, 2008
Hey, if you don't like that the elected leadership in Utah are reviewing
the private club laws you always have the option of leaving the state.
the opposite of dave | 9:04 a.m. June 12, 2008
What position does someone that has never drank speak from when they talk about
the dangers of alcohol? I am so sick of hearing people that have never had a
drink spew the hearsay that they heard from church meetings about the evils of
drinking. Utah is part of the United States and not some mormon kingdom. The
days of theocracy here are coming to an end and it scared the crap out of the
LDS. What would you do if you really had free agency that you speak of??? Are
you scared you might eat the fruit of the tree of life and become enlightened?
Since when is enlightenment a bad thing? Only in communism and dictatorships my
friends...
Robert | 9:20 a.m. June 12, 2008
1. Years ago, the "private club liquor laws" were enacted for private
clubs. That is, liquor sellers petitioned the Liquor Control Commission to allow
sales of liquor in private clubs, such as Moose Clubs and the Alta Club in Salt
lake City. So the Liquor control Commission recommended the laws be enacted to
allow such sales, and further recommended that "private club" be
defined as any establishment that charged a fee for membership. However, after
the legislature enacted the laws, liquor sellers saw a loophole, and began
charging "membership fees" in public bars and restaurants. Hence, we
have our so-called strange "private club laws" because of liquor
sellers, not the legislature. Now the same people who started the confusing
practice of making every restaurant a "private club" are complaining.
Solution: let's drop the private club laws altogether and go back to the
original laws that prohibited all alcohol in public or private
establishments.
2. Those who think with their beer-bellies and not their brains always say that because Jesus turned water into wine, they can drink all the alcohol they want, including distilled liquors. Sorry, but that doesn't work. In those days, "wine" was any liquid made from grapes.
2. Those who think with their beer-bellies and not their brains always say that because Jesus turned water into wine, they can drink all the alcohol they want, including distilled liquors. Sorry, but that doesn't work. In those days, "wine" was any liquid made from grapes.
B-rake | 9:29 a.m. June 12, 2008
I work for a downtown hotel in Salt Lake City. I am constantly confronted while
planning city-wide and single hotel events about our liquor laws. Most people do
not drink to get drunk...they like to have a glass of wine with dinner, or after
their meetings. I can assure you that our laws impact our tourist dollars coming
into this state. In fact, I would bet you a drink that once these laws are
passed...there are no increases in drunk driving tickets.
Anonymous | 9:32 a.m. June 12, 2008
After reading all of the idiocy on this blog, I really need a drink!
not 3.2 wine | 9:33 a.m. June 12, 2008
Not only did Jesus Christ change ordinary water into fine wine (and it is highly
doubtful it was 3.2 wine)-
he was also known to drink that same wine.
Get a grip sanctimonious teetotalers - or pack up your handcarts and head towards Missouri.
he was also known to drink that same wine.
Get a grip sanctimonious teetotalers - or pack up your handcarts and head towards Missouri.
Milo P Otis | 9:33 a.m. June 12, 2008
It is time for Utah to change their antiquated, archaic and stupid laws
regarding Private Clubs. I am not promoting irresponsible drinking, only common
sense. Know your limit and do not exceed it. It's up to the Bartender to
determine whether to serve or not serve. Tourism is one of Utah's biggest
industries. Why make it harder for Utah to dump it's backward image with
these laws. Perhaps we should have State run "Chubby stores." remove
the Oreo's, chip's and what not. What a sight for tourists - 6"
+ guts below the belt line. Lower arms that flap in the wind like the American
Flag. Re-read the Word of Wisdom. Keep it if you will and if not, use your
head - just don't cloud it. Know your limit.
"Liberalize"? | 9:33 a.m. June 12, 2008
I have been shocked to read the comments on this story. Laws need to be enacted
to protect people from themselves? The state needs to intervene to control a
product's distribution as much as possible? This, in
"conservative" Utah? There is nothing less conservative than these
viewpoints! In your bubble, you have all come to think that conservatism is all
about the culture wars, and that alcohol is part of those culture wars. In
reality, in most of the country, alcohol is NOT part of the culture wars. There
are even good, religious Christian people who like to drink now and then. And
most conservatives would wretch to hear you suggest that the state needs to
protect people from themselves.
Buster | 9:45 a.m. June 12, 2008
I suppose it will come as a shock to many of your readers, but most people
don't drink to get drunk. Most adults get tired of sugary children's
drinks. If Hell is the price we pay, we're more than willing.
Rich | 9:46 a.m. June 12, 2008
To Dave:
You invite people that don't like it here to "leave". Well my friend that is the least Christ Like attribute imaginable. I will stick with Mahtma Gandhi on this one-
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.� Mahatma Gandhi.
Please try to realize that we are all in this life together, and your attitude of intolerance and hate is what makes this earth unpleasant at times.
PS. I am Mormon, so don't say that you represent the "Religious Majority" here, you do not represent me. I sure hope that Mormons here are more tolerant then what you have written today.
You invite people that don't like it here to "leave". Well my friend that is the least Christ Like attribute imaginable. I will stick with Mahtma Gandhi on this one-
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.� Mahatma Gandhi.
Please try to realize that we are all in this life together, and your attitude of intolerance and hate is what makes this earth unpleasant at times.
PS. I am Mormon, so don't say that you represent the "Religious Majority" here, you do not represent me. I sure hope that Mormons here are more tolerant then what you have written today.
Anonymous | 9:53 a.m. June 12, 2008
Support change. We all know that these laws are outdated and a product of
original Mormon rule. This state is desperately trying to develop a balance and
it will be little relatively small changes in legislation that will make this
happen.
RE: CB_ATC | 9:55 a.m. June 12, 2008
Private clubs are what you call bars everywhere else in this world. You usually
have to pay a one time $20 fee to whatever bar you choose to frequent. The bar
then puts your name in their computer and you can come and go as you please. If
you don't pay the membership fee, you don't get to access the bar. In
other words, unless you want to fork out $20 every time you go someplace, the
law forces you to go to the same bar all the time.
re Dave | 10:02 a.m. June 12, 2008
Wow--I guess you consider yourself and likeminded folks the Kings of this state,
huh? The way you talk, is it any wonder that people don't think too highly
of Utah Mormons, or is just far right wing Utah Mormons, who happened to
carpetbag it to Utah from California?
I don't get it | 10:22 a.m. June 12, 2008
I worked at a restaurant for a while and this was the deal: Someone would walk
in, ask to sit in the bar. We would ask, are you a member of our private club.
"no" Would you please write your name on this list... now you're
a member and can sit at the bar.
The other day I went to a fine dining establishment downtown. I don't drink, but was told I needed to be a member of the private club to eat there. "How much?," I asked. "You can get a temporary (3 week) membership for $4, or $30 for a year. Considering my tab would be about $100 for my and my date, I paid the $4 and enjoyed myself. Oh, shockingly enough, I also had to write my name on a little card... Personally I was more bothered about having to valet park for $6. I'd complain about that, but I can't see how to blame that one on the Mormons.
Yes, these are the shocking tales of Utah's liquor laws. This is what people spend good portions of their lives being angry about. Personally, I don't get it.
The other day I went to a fine dining establishment downtown. I don't drink, but was told I needed to be a member of the private club to eat there. "How much?," I asked. "You can get a temporary (3 week) membership for $4, or $30 for a year. Considering my tab would be about $100 for my and my date, I paid the $4 and enjoyed myself. Oh, shockingly enough, I also had to write my name on a little card... Personally I was more bothered about having to valet park for $6. I'd complain about that, but I can't see how to blame that one on the Mormons.
Yes, these are the shocking tales of Utah's liquor laws. This is what people spend good portions of their lives being angry about. Personally, I don't get it.
Drinking | 11:21 a.m. June 12, 2008
This has nothing to do with the right to drink alcohol. This is about having to
fill out a form and pay 5-20 bucks just to get in to the building, even if your
not going to have a drink. Utah is the ONLY state that has this stupid law and
it needs to be gone. All those who want to keep this law have no idea what they
are talking about and are very narrow minded to say the least.
I love Utah | 11:40 a.m. June 12, 2008
I grew up in Chicago in a family of three kids. My dad was an alcoholic and died
at the age of 52 from liver damage. I had a 17 year old cousin who died from a
drunk driver. My sister was at a party, got too drunk and was raped. I also have
a high school friend that got drunk at a club, participated in a brawl, and
someone ended up getting killed and he is now in jail. You don't have to be
a mormon to despise alcohol and its effects on people. I now live in Utah, and
if I had it my way, I would ban alcohol all together. If the Utah laws makes it
more difficult for drinkers, good! If it causes less drunk tourists to be on the
streets, even better. Try living where I lived in Chicago for a week and come
back and complain that Utah isn't normal like its a bad thing. I would take
abnormal Utah over most places in the world anyday, and wish that its good
example would influence more places to make it more inconvenient for drinking.
I DON'T GET IT | 12:03 p.m. June 12, 2008
People don't make any since at all.... We are Utah we've always been
known for a cleaner place to be, less gambling and less drinking. Why should we
change that environment for the few drunks on the streets? I like that we have
strict rules for drinking and at bars here; the more strict the less likely
you'll see deaths and crashes from a drunk driver. What I don't
understand is when people are wanting more rights when it comes to drinking and
stricter gun rights to make it more difficult to own a gun. People who are
wasted are just as dangerous as any weapon, people have died from both!
Justin | 12:07 p.m. June 12, 2008
The Private Club law does more damage to the images of State of Utah and the LDS
culture than any other single item (with the possible exception of Polygamy).
Ask any waiter or bartender who has to explain these stupid laws to visitors day
after day. People who visit this state, who are accustomed to being treated
like adults back home, do not take kindly to being asked to show ID, pay a fee,
and fill out paperwork in order to participate in an activity which is perfectly
legal and socially acceptable almost everywhere else besides Utah and Saudi
Arabia.
Ryan W | 12:14 p.m. June 12, 2008
Trying to make it more difficult (or in most cases, more expensive) for people
to drink doesn�t help reduce the amount of drunk drivers on
the road. Strong laws against drunk driving reduces drunk driving. The logic
most of you are using is the same that liberals use to try to outlaw firearms.
They believe that if you try to make getting them illegal, then people
can�t kill each other with them. Utah has firearm
legislation right, they don�t make it really hard for a
non-criminal adult, to get a firearm but you will spend a lot of time in jail if
you commit a crime with one.
My brother was hit by a drunk driver and spent over a half of a year is bed. I know as good as anyone how drunk driving can affect a family. But it�s not the states place (nor do they have the constitutional backing) to regulate behavior UNLESS it infringes on the rights of someone else.
I�ll restate that last sentence, as Americans, we have the right to make a bad decision as long as it doesn�t infringe on the rights of someone else. Laws that force morals on people are wrong.
My brother was hit by a drunk driver and spent over a half of a year is bed. I know as good as anyone how drunk driving can affect a family. But it�s not the states place (nor do they have the constitutional backing) to regulate behavior UNLESS it infringes on the rights of someone else.
I�ll restate that last sentence, as Americans, we have the right to make a bad decision as long as it doesn�t infringe on the rights of someone else. Laws that force morals on people are wrong.
Um, Kathryn? | 12:27 p.m. June 12, 2008
"Are nondrinkers to be disenfranchised?" Balmforth asked.
Kathryn Balmforth, do you think only drinkers go dancing? Many private clubs in Salt Lake City are also the only dance clubs college students in the state have to go to.
I know plenty of BYU students who make the trek up to Area 51 on 80s night. It's not only drinkers who have to fill out forms and pay ridiculous private club fees to gain entry.
Read this, Kathryn: IT'S EVERYONE!
So yes, nondrinkers are disenfranchised with these laws as well. Duh.
Kathryn Balmforth, do you think only drinkers go dancing? Many private clubs in Salt Lake City are also the only dance clubs college students in the state have to go to.
I know plenty of BYU students who make the trek up to Area 51 on 80s night. It's not only drinkers who have to fill out forms and pay ridiculous private club fees to gain entry.
Read this, Kathryn: IT'S EVERYONE!
So yes, nondrinkers are disenfranchised with these laws as well. Duh.
June Bug | 12:32 p.m. June 12, 2008
I grew up in Sullivan County, Tennessee. It was a dry county. There were no
bars, nor was any alcohol sold in state liquor stores. That was the days of
bootlegging. Later on, the laws were changed to be very much like Utah's.
You could buy alcohol at a state liquor store, and go to private clubs which
sold membership fees. I have been away from my town for many years so I
don't know what they do now. Utah is not the only state with private
membership fees. Also, did you know that there is a dry county in Tennessee
(Moore Co.) that happens to be the home of Jack Daniels operations? They can
make it but they can't sell it. Now that's quirky. I love my home
state, but I think their laws are stranger. I was married to an alcoholic. My
personal opinion is that it is a useless and dangerous beverage.
Kate | 12:37 p.m. June 12, 2008
I still go to the bars and drink just as much as I would without the cover
charge.... I see no reason for it... Wine is good for the heart, and bad for the
liver. You decide which is more fun! I guess having a healthy heart is a bigger
priority for me.
this should work ... | 12:40 p.m. June 12, 2008
Go after all the alcohol drinkers (prohibition worked famously),
then on to rounding up all the evil coffee-drinkers.
then on to rounding up all the evil coffee-drinkers.
Bert | 12:58 p.m. June 12, 2008
It's a slippery slope.
First we restricted smoking, then we tightened alcohol laws (alcopops). Next they are going to come after coffee, then meat will disappear from Smith's except in the winter.
Next thing you know I'll have to smuggle my speedos, nipple rings, and flip-flops into the state when I go to Las Vegas.
Slippery slope I tell ya!
First we restricted smoking, then we tightened alcohol laws (alcopops). Next they are going to come after coffee, then meat will disappear from Smith's except in the winter.
Next thing you know I'll have to smuggle my speedos, nipple rings, and flip-flops into the state when I go to Las Vegas.
Slippery slope I tell ya!
Brady | 1:08 p.m. June 12, 2008
Wal-mart and 7-11 don't charge all of their customers a $4 fee for entry or
make them fill out paperwork, but they sell just as much beer as private
clubs.
Since this law affects nondrinkers and drinkers alike, doesn't that seem to make it NOT an alcohol control issue, but more of a a venue control issue?
Why single out some venues that sell alcohol but not others? Shouldn't all businesses that sell alcohol of any type be converted to private clubs, if we are so concerned about drinking?
Why is the Utah Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control deciding what nondrinkers have to pay to gain entry to go dancing, watch the big game or eat a steak?
Since this law affects nondrinkers and drinkers alike, doesn't that seem to make it NOT an alcohol control issue, but more of a a venue control issue?
Why single out some venues that sell alcohol but not others? Shouldn't all businesses that sell alcohol of any type be converted to private clubs, if we are so concerned about drinking?
Why is the Utah Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control deciding what nondrinkers have to pay to gain entry to go dancing, watch the big game or eat a steak?
Chris Plummer | 1:51 p.m. June 12, 2008
Mormons seem to think drinkers are sauced all the time and once you have one
drink you are roaring drunk. Give me a break.
Considering drinking alcohol is really a trivial sin in the big scheme of things it would be nice if you all lightened up a bit.
Your so scared of drinking that you are ignorant of the facts. A few beers does not get one roaring drunk... unless of course you just snuck out of church and never drank before.
Considering drinking alcohol is really a trivial sin in the big scheme of things it would be nice if you all lightened up a bit.
Your so scared of drinking that you are ignorant of the facts. A few beers does not get one roaring drunk... unless of course you just snuck out of church and never drank before.
MWHC22 | 2:13 p.m. June 12, 2008
Fact: LDS members are not affected by the states liquor laws
Fact: People who drink are affected by the states liquor laws.
People who want to drink will drink regardless of what laws you have. Legally or illegally they will do it.
I am not from Utah. I also have a degree in Hospitality and Tourism. I have worked in the industry here in utah for almost 7 years. I have noticed that people from out of state do in fact take the liquor laws into consideration when planning a trip. More often than not people from out of state drink alcohol more commonly than people in utah.
So the real question here is...
Why do people from utah seem to care about laws that only affect them indirectly by the amount of business dollars spent by people who want to drink. Many of which are not from utah?
also why do people from utah think they know how people from out of state think about utah laws?
The laws we have now are made only to satisfy the non-drinkers. So they are infact discriminatory against people who do drink...and are not made for the general populations benefit.
Fact: People who drink are affected by the states liquor laws.
People who want to drink will drink regardless of what laws you have. Legally or illegally they will do it.
I am not from Utah. I also have a degree in Hospitality and Tourism. I have worked in the industry here in utah for almost 7 years. I have noticed that people from out of state do in fact take the liquor laws into consideration when planning a trip. More often than not people from out of state drink alcohol more commonly than people in utah.
So the real question here is...
Why do people from utah seem to care about laws that only affect them indirectly by the amount of business dollars spent by people who want to drink. Many of which are not from utah?
also why do people from utah think they know how people from out of state think about utah laws?
The laws we have now are made only to satisfy the non-drinkers. So they are infact discriminatory against people who do drink...and are not made for the general populations benefit.
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Commissioner Kathryn Balmforth listens to a speaker at hearing. She questioned whether Utah's liquor laws need to be liberalized.
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A 100% truth learned in college: Heat kills proteins!!! Our bodies are made of proteins. Enzymes that fight infection are proteins! White blood cells are proteins! Muscles are proteins! Organs are proteins! Our brain's a protein! If people choose to destroy their brains, they've no sense! Lay off the laws! In fact, this furthers my lack of confidence in Governor Huntsman!
THERE'S SAFETY IN GOD'S COMMANDMENTS! GOD LIVES!