Reader comments
Utah liquor-control panel urged to change private-club rules

Laws are supposed to be enacted to protect all individuals� rights, not just one group�s rights. They're put in place to ensure the safety of all people. No exceptions. If we change the laws to make them hospitable to those who want gain from them, they're substandard laws. Agency is the right to choose. If people choose to drink alcohol, that's their agency. No mortal gets to choose the consequence of their choices, including my uncle who's dying from liver damage! In fact, people say, "I don't care" until they're suffering in the hospital from the consequence of their choices. Or they've killed some child, mother or father in a DUI accident. Laws should be enacted to protect people from their own choices. Laws aren't about agency! They're about protecting its citizens.
A 100% truth learned in college: Heat kills proteins!!! Our bodies are made of proteins. Enzymes that fight infection are proteins! White blood cells are proteins! Muscles are proteins! Organs are proteins! Our brain's a protein! If people choose to destroy their brains, they've no sense! Lay off the laws! In fact, this furthers my lack of confidence in Governor Huntsman!

THERE'S SAFETY IN GOD'S COMMANDMENTS! GOD LIVES!

As much control on Liquor as possible is a good thing. Human beings do Not Need Liquor. It may be legal and to Ban it is not a good thing, some elements of society, want to and will get either High or Drunk or both regardless of the Law and then they will Drive Drunk or do other things that they would otherwise Not Do. "I did it because I was Drunk." You do not have to make it easy for people to do the wrong thing. Utah�s Liquor Laws do Not have to be Liberalized. There is No need to change them. In some places Utah's Laws Regarding Liquor are greatly admired. I never could figure out how you can put a Bar on a Road or Highway and then complain about people Driving Drunk. No Law says that you have to make it easier for people to drink. It maybe a Private Club but its a Public Road. What you think of Liberalized Liquor Laws if its you Loved One is Dying in the Road as a result of A Drunk Driving On Purpose. (A traffic accident while drunk is an "on purpose" Not an accident.

You should take a Close Look, at the Elements of the Society that want the Liquor Laws changed. Then act accordingly. Utah has always had Control At The Point Of Sale it helps with how much is Sold and helps Control Sales To Minors. I remember when you could Drink at 18 and Not Vote Till 21. For some reason being Old enough to Defend America gave a person some kind of right to Drink. The Military does Not Tax Liquor bought on Base. They more then should, Tobacco also. Access to Liquor decreases Moral and Social Controls, gives a person an excuse for lack of accountability. The more Controls On Liquor the Better. In Oregon you could make 200 gallons of Wine a year for your own use. Some people very rarely took a Bath. Showers Maybe ,but the Bath Tub had a very special purpose.

I think those advocating that the law should be changed should quit saying that tourism will be hurt
and convention business is down. Give us specifics!
Which conventions didn't come because of the liquor law? Which companies didn't come to Utah because of the liquor law? Is tourism really hurt in our state because of the liquor law? How do you really measure that. Society in general is in enough trouble across the country and around the world because of liquor and the problems this beverage of choice causes in homes, businesses, etc. Do we really need to make the change?

On liquor, it is as if the state considers the drinking populace as children, or one without intelligence to be stewards of our own life, that the state must tell us how to live our lives. Stop treating us like immature idiots. Dissolve the board, save the state some money.

I don't agree with the reasoning! If other business won't relocate here because of quirky liquor laws, do we need that business here.

Has everyone noticed? Salt Lake, Provo and Ogden have merged, there are many choices of every kind of business choose from. What is the business that is not going to relocate here? Look at all the houses and business that exist. I really think we can get along without a business or people that won't come here because of "quirky" laws.

Mormon pioneers were burned, booted, persecuted out of every places they'd lived for living conservatively. They came to the worst place in the US to live the way they desired and made it blossom.

Don't call my state messed up, you don't like it, LEAVE there are plenty of roads out of town with places you'd like. Try California, it is great, I lived in San Diego they have a better beach than GSL. Try Nevada, you can gamble and get rich on it. You can also buy liquor, lots of it....til your dead.


PLEASE LEAVE if you aren't happy here.

Dave many people leave Utah. California has benefited by Utah's culture. These people have brought their talents and creativity to California where we all have been enriched.

I was going to type a reminder the Christ's first miracle was turning water to wine.

I'm betting when LDS businessman think these laws cost them. these laws will change. Expect the change by next ski season because it's a done deal.

To Dave:

I don't like the the ways some things are done in Utah but I like this place.

You leave.

awesomeron. I am in your corner on this. I will raise your message and shout it from the roof tops.

But don't you go to the comments about military and drinking at 18. I don't agree either but they are above your argument. They have experianced more than you ever will! I know, I have been there with them. They deserve at lease that! Your comments in that arena are out of play

Most of you have it totally wrong. Laws should actually serve a purpose. In my 25 years here nobody has given me even one legitimate reason for the private club law. Show me ONE legitimate (not histrionic) purpose of private clubs.

Denice, A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Your diatribe holds no merit.

When my children are set free and make the wrong choices there is a consequence and their freedoms of choice are taken away for a while.

People who drink are treated as children because they are making a stupid choice to dabble in an activity that brings a negative effect not only upon themselves but onto society. So when people choose to do childish things, restrictions are put in place to try to curtail the stupidity from changing into tragedy!

Quid pro Quo! If liquor laws are loosened then DUI and disorderly conduct laws involving boose must tighten. Pulled over for a DUI? 1 week in jail, and 100 hrs community service, $5000 fine. 2nd time DUI? 6 months in jail (and as a result probably lose your job), $30,000 fine, and 1000 hrs community service. 3rd time DUI? 2 yrs in Jail, $100,000 fine.

Oh, by the way these jails would be private and funded by the drunks, and their families.

I can't believe what I am reading from the above comments. What narrow minded people live here. Utah is the ONLY place where private clubs exist. Getting rid of them wont create more drunks, but will simplify and normalize us. Doesn't Utah want to be considered a normal place - not an ODD one? I haven't gone to a private club in years, but would if I didn't have to fill out a form and join the one club I might like to go to. And you don't need specifics - only common sense to realize that YES, conventions, tourists, etc., DO stay away from Utah due to the quirkiness of our laws. And "JUST LEAVE UTAH if you don't like it", isn't the solution either. Fix the root cause, police it with existing laws - and we all would be better off. And when I retire, I most likely will leave Utah, if I can stand to be away from friends and family, mainly due to the weirdos here like those who have commented above before me.

The Olympics came to Utah and were successful. So what is the big deal with the existing liquour laws? I have written this several times but still cannot get an answer to the following question. Three weeks after the tragic Trolley Square shootings the adults who supplied guns to the minor who shot up the Mall were apprehended and arrested. There have been several reported incidents where minors get alcohol from adults and then get drunk and go out and kill people while driving cars. Why are these adults not prosecuted? If Gov Huntsman and others want to liberalize Utah's liquor laws then they better put in place stronger laws to procecute those who break them.

Oh please. We have freedom of choice. But the LDS do not want to give freedom of choice to anyone Their philosophy is "I will give you freedom to choose and then I will tell you what to choose."
But not to worry. The Church will never allow it. But the Church has to be careful. The minute they show any political bias they will lose their taxfree exemption. The Church will simply manipulate the people on the Board. By the way who do you think controls the gambling in Navada. The majority of the members of the Gambling Commission are Mormon. Navada has a high percentage of LDS members. Wake up and smell the roses.

I've come to the conclusion that Utah's liquor laws will ALWAYS be messed up as long as we continue the model that non-drinkers are a special group that needs protection from drinkers. This idea (embedded in the DABC's mission statement) is as ridiculous as the common meme that "self-proclaimed 'tolerant' people really aren't tolerant because they don't accept intolerant people." The PUBLIC (including us drinkers) needs protection from the more harmful effects of alcohol consumption, and the laws should reflect this. But treating non-drinkers as a special group with some special say in the liquor laws creates a bogus set of competing interests that really skews the rational lawmaking process. (Notice I'm not suggesting that non-drinkers be excluded from the process, just that their voices be heard as a part of the general public.)

So, that being said, get rid of the private club requirement and try not to screw too much else up in the process. Maybe if we successfully fix this issue, we can move on to the next twelve.

To himself,
I am part of the religious MAJORITY here, why would I leave, I am not going to be leaving soon. I do encourage you to continue to grovel in the things you don't like here and I will be happy to continue to press for things that make life less enjoyable to you, for length of time you and those like you continue to live here amongst US.

That may be a pretty wide street

to Did Leave,
Yes Calif is nice place with a lot of great people. I enjoyed it too, glad you like it, lots of diversity. I chose to come back after living overseas and all over the US.

The LDS businessmen may rally for the change, I am hoping they don't and will push for this aspect to stay the same or go away. I really don't want to ski among drunk people on the slops and see the throw up from the lift on the snow. Again, that element is polluting my world.

Since most of you who are writing comments have never set foot in a club, you probably don't know that every time the law has to be explained, it reinforces a negative image on the LDS Church as having too much influence on our laws. If you don't believe me, just listen to the people who have to explain it to those wanting a drink. Filling out an application doesn't stop people from drinking. It's just an inconvenience for those who run the private club as well as the person who frequents the club.

The church and all others are right to try to prevent evils of alcohol and to lobby for such laws. However the use not abuse of alcohol ought not be interfered with.

Unless it can be shown that allowing drinking at resturants would increase drunk driving, they allow it.

What ever decision is made, use logic not religion to make it. Every religion has their own brand of restrictions on peoples lives. I certainly wouldn't want a religion to mandate their particular brand of restrictions on my life. If we allow that, recreation would be closed on Saturday and Sunday, both days are claimed as being the sabbath by various religions. Catholics claim
God doesn't like birth control. Should they be allowed to mandate this for all people? Jehovas Witness claim god doesn't want you to get a blood transfusion even if it saves your life. Do we allow them to mandate this for all of us?

I am open to alcohol restrictioins, but we need to make them for the right reasons if we do. The general public good.

What value do the private club laws provide? Although I do not drink, it is about freedom of choice. I believe that most people drink responsibly. It is amazing to me how many people in Utah don't value free agency and personal responsibility. Those who want the goverment out of the citizens' personal lives seem to be the ones advocating for the goverment to be extremely involved in regulating liquor. Talk about hypocrites. To the moderator: Please publish my comment. I submitted one the other day and it was never published. Thank you.