Reader comments
Washington County sends dossiers of select FLDS members to Texas officials
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Anonymous | 7:14 a.m. June 11, 2008
And the beat goes onnnnnnnnnnnnnn. Havrn't these people proven themselves.
For heavens sakes they had their most prized posessions (their children) and
weren't violent! Give them a break!
What next? Will they be accused of the next earthquake?
What next? Will they be accused of the next earthquake?
Another witch hunt | 7:49 a.m. June 11, 2008
why would this paper publish this and not post the obvious fact that the state
of Utah has no evidence to back up any of the claims ie Willie the thug has a
passion for fire arms etc
Comments continue below
Too much | 8:37 a.m. June 11, 2008
If the worst thing these people did was glare at people in court, this article
is irresponsible, bordering on witch hunting!
Yes, I'm sure the leader of the FLDS has a security team--most churches do. We may not like the FLDS beliefs and, indeed, some of Mr. Jeff's actions seem to remove him from sincere consideration as a righteous leader (I'm sorry, FLDS readers, I do realize that you revere him as Prophet), but it is not extraordinary that there should be a security team.
But to publish pictures and list this ambiguous list of "charges" certainly tends to incite people unnecessarily--not to mention that it makes Utah law enforcement appear highly unprofessional. I'm not totally comfortable with sharing such vague charges with Texas law enforcement--given Texas' record of jumping the gun. And I think it highly unprofessional for this type of information to be given to the press. There is certainly no danger to the citizens of Utah from these people.
I'm not FLDS and don't live in Utah, either.
Yes, I'm sure the leader of the FLDS has a security team--most churches do. We may not like the FLDS beliefs and, indeed, some of Mr. Jeff's actions seem to remove him from sincere consideration as a righteous leader (I'm sorry, FLDS readers, I do realize that you revere him as Prophet), but it is not extraordinary that there should be a security team.
But to publish pictures and list this ambiguous list of "charges" certainly tends to incite people unnecessarily--not to mention that it makes Utah law enforcement appear highly unprofessional. I'm not totally comfortable with sharing such vague charges with Texas law enforcement--given Texas' record of jumping the gun. And I think it highly unprofessional for this type of information to be given to the press. There is certainly no danger to the citizens of Utah from these people.
I'm not FLDS and don't live in Utah, either.
Karl | 8:39 a.m. June 11, 2008
Not one episode of real evidence. Now we have thought police who
"seem" to know what a man seems to be thinking and that appears to be
approaching criminal activity worthy of mention and the creation of
�dossiers� on folks. If we
can�t find any real crimes a person has committed, the law
�seems� to be willing to go into
character defamation mode as the person may be thinking of doing something
illegal. I think if I were FLDS, I would be very intensely engaged in
observation of the proceedings of the court. What a farce, nothing more than
slander, innuendo and character defamation. If a person could be convicted on
what they appear to be thinking, they better round up all of these folks, along
with most of society. If this is the level of investigation our law enforcement
folks engage in we�re all in big trouble.
WOW!
WOW!
StaringThemDown | 9:05 a.m. June 11, 2008
Where are the 50-80 year old men that have sex with teens? I thought this was
all about old men having sex with children? But I guess all the children having
sex turned out to be adults.
Now the best they can do is show photos of people that might stare you down in court????????????
Obviously, the state is worried about these people and will create anykind of slander they can think up. Why? Is the state worried about thier own crimes?
Now the best they can do is show photos of people that might stare you down in court????????????
Obviously, the state is worried about these people and will create anykind of slander they can think up. Why? Is the state worried about thier own crimes?
Grandpa Phil | 9:12 a.m. June 11, 2008
Well said Karl. You nailed that one on the head. Next, they will be doing
dossiers on everyone who makes a positive posting on these blogs in favor of the
FLDS. Hey UTAH!!!!!!! Check out my military record; this 'ole grandpa is
more dangerous than any of them. LOLOLOLOL
Anonymous | 9:31 a.m. June 11, 2008
THESE MEN ARE INNOCENT ! No history of violence,but they looked at people wrong
or are high rankers of the church so they are a risk???? OOOOOH PLEASE!!!
THIS IS DEFINETLEY RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION NOW !!!!
STOP THE WITCH HUNT*******
STOP THE WITCH HUNT*******
pligchild | 9:54 a.m. June 11, 2008
HA HA HA!
That list made me laugh!
polygamist to law enforcement: "Howdy"
Law enforcement: "Flora, was he threatening me?"
Flora: "Without a doubt, howdy means your next on the blood atone list!"
Put him on the LIST!
That list made me laugh!
polygamist to law enforcement: "Howdy"
Law enforcement: "Flora, was he threatening me?"
Flora: "Without a doubt, howdy means your next on the blood atone list!"
Put him on the LIST!
witch hunt? | 10:14 a.m. June 11, 2008
There are witches in Texas? Who knew.
Dear FLDS sympathizers: You reap what you sow. You lie in the bed you make. Your prophet, when caught outside Vegas, was found with boatloads of cash, disguises for a small clan, enough fake IDs to start a junta all the attitude of, well, a venomous snake.
Deal with it. You are busted.
Have a nice day.
Dear FLDS sympathizers: You reap what you sow. You lie in the bed you make. Your prophet, when caught outside Vegas, was found with boatloads of cash, disguises for a small clan, enough fake IDs to start a junta all the attitude of, well, a venomous snake.
Deal with it. You are busted.
Have a nice day.
Grandpa Phil | 10:22 a.m. June 11, 2008
Yes, it seems there ARE, in fact, witches in Texas or, in other words, some VERY
ugly people (on the inside).
Bill from South Dakota | 10:32 a.m. June 11, 2008
To witch hunt?:
This article is nothing more than propaganda generated by Utah law enforcement and propagated by the DN.
This article is nothing more than propaganda generated by Utah law enforcement and propagated by the DN.
Amazing | 10:36 a.m. June 11, 2008
this is by far the funniest Article I have ever seen in DesN, I had to check the
URL 3 times to make sure I wasnt at the Onion.com, ROFL
Thank you DN... | 10:39 a.m. June 11, 2008
for shining a little light on the not so pleasant dark side of some of the
FLDS.
Of course they will react viciously to any reports that reveal their true character.
Just as they have for every victim who has ever testified against them, they will try to intimidate and discredit anyone who tries to tell the truth about them.
Of course they will react viciously to any reports that reveal their true character.
Just as they have for every victim who has ever testified against them, they will try to intimidate and discredit anyone who tries to tell the truth about them.
Me2wired | 10:43 a.m. June 11, 2008
"Seemed to be taking mental notes..." Are you joking me? We heard
outcries during the trial with everyone wondering where the fathers of these
children were out. It seems that any father who actually SHOWED UP was then
flagged as a possible conspirator. "Seemed to be intimidating..." They
took their children! What did they want them to do? Give them nice smiles, a
handshake and wave at them?
Silenta | 10:45 a.m. June 11, 2008
Everyone, I think this article is meant to show how ridiculous the allegations
are. I don't think the Deseret News published it to show that these people
are a danger. Rather to laugh at how silly some of these claims are.
simple Logic | 10:52 a.m. June 11, 2008
Simple Logic would suggest that if an Act of Violence was going to happen it
would have happened when they were being attacked and having their children
Kidnapped, (I never happened). To try to compare FLDS with the MOB is like
trying to compare"-10" and "+10" they do have a lot in
common, very comparable. If we can just get folks to ignore the obvious we have
a case.
N H | 11:02 a.m. June 11, 2008
Reading all the FLDS posts where FLDS men post as woman is more than a bit
scary. FLDS are not to be trusted in any way shape or form. The FLDS women and
children are a very good indication of all the intimidation that takes place in
the FLDS cult.
DN this was a nice article.
DN this was a nice article.
Southern Utah Resident | 11:01 a.m. June 11, 2008
This is ridiculous. Washington County Sheriff Kirk Smith panders to these
degenerates and ignores crimes including abuse of children in the FLDS community
then wants to come across as altruistic with the situation in Texas.
Kissing up to the polygamist community means votes for Smith. His shameless ignorance is disgraceful. He needs to be replaced.
Kissing up to the polygamist community means votes for Smith. His shameless ignorance is disgraceful. He needs to be replaced.
Thank You DN--NOT!! | 11:02 a.m. June 11, 2008
Re: Thank You DN
Thanks for coming out of your hole in the ground, to share with us your vindictive comments. You can go back now.
Thanks for coming out of your hole in the ground, to share with us your vindictive comments. You can go back now.
no way | 11:22 a.m. June 11, 2008
You have got to be kidding me!! I am SHOCKED that this article is being
published with the DN! I have seen some amazingly stupid articles...but this
takes the cake. WOW! Nothing like slander against innocent (not proven guilty)
individuals.
Tainted blood | 11:22 a.m. June 11, 2008
This is no witch hunt and no religious persecution. There is nothing religious
about FLDS, old men, raping teenage girls. The FLDS leaders telling these girls
that the outside world is all evil and corrupt, and telling these young FLDS
girls that this is what GOD wants them to do, and that they need to put up,
shut-up, and take it, and bear all the rapes of older FLDS perverts. They have
no chance for a legal marriage. They cannot whatsoever have their precious
Mormon pioneer blood tainted by outsiders.
Re Thank you DN ... | 11:25 a.m. June 11, 2008
Thank you DN, You are correct. I cant believe anyone who thinks a little
intimidation by eye contact is nothing. We have all been intimated by eye
contact at one time or another. Think back when you were a child, that is about
the mental status of most of these women. We all have to remember the inner fear
they have of these men. Elissa was a very young women at the time she was
intimated in trial, kudos to her bravery. Intimination can be stronger then
words because you never know exactly what the consequence will be. That is just
my opionion...
Intimidators | 11:38 a.m. June 11, 2008
Anyone who thinks some of Warren Jeffs' most rabid supporters weren't
doing everything they possibily could to try to prevent their
"prophet" from being convicted of rape simply doesn't understand
the blind devotion that they have for Jeffs.
They broke law after law after law in trying to keep him from being arrested. They certainly weren't going to let him go to prison if they could stop it.
Now they want to derail any possible criminal charges that will be coming from the investigation of child abuse at the YFZ ranch.
They'll claim of course, that no abuse has been proven, and that proves that there was no abuse.
Just as they claim that Warren never participated in the abuse of any 14-year-old girls.
They broke law after law after law in trying to keep him from being arrested. They certainly weren't going to let him go to prison if they could stop it.
Now they want to derail any possible criminal charges that will be coming from the investigation of child abuse at the YFZ ranch.
They'll claim of course, that no abuse has been proven, and that proves that there was no abuse.
Just as they claim that Warren never participated in the abuse of any 14-year-old girls.
plankton | 11:38 a.m. June 11, 2008
To silenta: I thought the same thing. What would be such slanderous descriptions
on the part of law enforcement? a hunch???
From the Creek | 11:49 a.m. June 11, 2008
"Reading all the FLDS posts where FLDS men post as woman is more than a bit
scary. FLDS are not to be trusted in any way shape or form."
Would you tell us just HOW you know that FLDS men are posing as FLDS women? That's almost as laughable as this article. Do you really believe that not a single FLDS woman knows how to use or has access to a computer with internet access? I'm afraid you're sadly mistaken. I like to laugh at all the accusations thrown around against us, but then I realize people actually believe them.
Just so you don't accuse me of being an FLDS man posing as a woman, I actually am an FLDS man.
Would you tell us just HOW you know that FLDS men are posing as FLDS women? That's almost as laughable as this article. Do you really believe that not a single FLDS woman knows how to use or has access to a computer with internet access? I'm afraid you're sadly mistaken. I like to laugh at all the accusations thrown around against us, but then I realize people actually believe them.
Just so you don't accuse me of being an FLDS man posing as a woman, I actually am an FLDS man.
Thompson | 11:50 a.m. June 11, 2008
This is a terrible article. There is no context at all (I had to go to Salt Lake
Tribune for that) and the people listed are treated in a public forum as if they
are guilty and have already done something illegal. C'mon, let's have
a REAL article and not a piece of yellow journalism.
Spinazi | 12:19 p.m. June 11, 2008
Dear DN, The comments here seem to indicate that your fair-minded and literate
readers outnumber those for whom you published this defamatory article - for
now. But unless you mean to replace those readers with those who only read the
headlines on tabloids at the checkout, you might want to rethink your editorial
policy.
momof5kids | 12:33 p.m. June 11, 2008
The reason this dossier was sent out was because the judge in Texas who ruled on
the child abuse case received notification that "enforcers" from the
FLDS sect could possiby be a threat to her and family. Her home and self are
under guard. The DN did not print the reason for the dossier. If the DN is
your only news source, you might not know that.
Anonymous | 12:44 p.m. June 11, 2008
Well YOU no it alls! For your information you have locked up the only true
PROPHET in the world living in this day and age. Please set Warren Jeffs free.
Our people need his good wisdom and knowledge.
Anonymous | 12:47 p.m. June 11, 2008
witch hunt? | 10:14 a.m. June 11, 2008
There are witches in Texas? Who knew.
"Dear FLDS sympathizers: You reap what you sow...
Deal with it. You are busted.
Have a nice day."
You sound like Charlie Manson.
There are witches in Texas? Who knew.
"Dear FLDS sympathizers: You reap what you sow...
Deal with it. You are busted.
Have a nice day."
You sound like Charlie Manson.
I wonder | 12:48 p.m. June 11, 2008
I wonder who notified the judge that "enforcers" from the FLDS
"could possibly" be out to get her--Sarah again?
Maybe they do have enforcers--I hope not. Maybe they'd even like to get her--could hardly blame them. But stupid I don't think they are. Right now they have many, many people nation wide who are upset with Texas' heavy-handed and unconstitutional treatment of the FLDS people. They'd be FOOLS to lose that support by any violent action.
No, I'm not FLDS.
Maybe they do have enforcers--I hope not. Maybe they'd even like to get her--could hardly blame them. But stupid I don't think they are. Right now they have many, many people nation wide who are upset with Texas' heavy-handed and unconstitutional treatment of the FLDS people. They'd be FOOLS to lose that support by any violent action.
No, I'm not FLDS.
Stephen | 12:56 p.m. June 11, 2008
geez...almost all of these folks on the dossier are either described as people
who once gave somebody a mean look or as people who've never exhibited any
violent or intimidating tendencies.
Looks like Judge Walther and ilk are no better at counting threatening adults than teen-aged girls.
Looks like Judge Walther and ilk are no better at counting threatening adults than teen-aged girls.
This is an outrage | 12:56 p.m. June 11, 2008
Washington County must be stopped. Sue them, remove them from office, whatever
it takes to stop them from violating the rights of it's citizens. Do they
show ONE crime committed by any of these people, ONE conviction, even one formal
complaint filed. NO. It's all allegations, suspicions, observations of
biased authorities. Nothing more. It's libel, it's slander,
it's criminal. The "authorities" just won't stop. They
must be sued to get them off these peoples' backs. There is NO excuse for
this kind of thing. They could do it to anyone and everyone. I have a deep
distrust of Utah and Texas authorities over this. I wouldn't live in Texas
and maybe it's time to leave Utah.
WHAT?! | 12:59 p.m. June 11, 2008
Whatever happened to innocent until PROVEN GUILTY!
Here you are saying that IF a disturbance should happen (which I think they're entitled to, given the way Texas has maltreated their families) here are the ones that most likely will be guilty.
Don't publish stuff like that, and shame on the goverment/law enforcement for doing this!
Leave them alone!!!
Here you are saying that IF a disturbance should happen (which I think they're entitled to, given the way Texas has maltreated their families) here are the ones that most likely will be guilty.
Don't publish stuff like that, and shame on the goverment/law enforcement for doing this!
Leave them alone!!!
Sticking together | 1:03 p.m. June 11, 2008
We FLDS need to stick together. These outsiders are trying to bring us down.
They are heathens. While we know with out a doubt we are gods only pure ones.
Re: outrage | 1:17 p.m. June 11, 2008
"Do they show ONE crime committed by any of these people, ONE conviction,
even one formal complaint filed."??
Does Warren Jeffs and other FLDS man being convicted and sent to prison for abusing children count as a crime?
You forgot to include Arizona, and now Canada, in your list of places you should deeply distrust.
Basically, any place the FLDS have abused children should be included on your list.
Does Warren Jeffs and other FLDS man being convicted and sent to prison for abusing children count as a crime?
You forgot to include Arizona, and now Canada, in your list of places you should deeply distrust.
Basically, any place the FLDS have abused children should be included on your list.
Warren | 1:24 p.m. June 11, 2008
"Washington County must be stopped. Sue them, remove them from office...
They could do it to anyone and everyone."
The paranoia indeed runs deep in our community. When you've been knowingly breaking the law and looking over your shoulder to see if you're about to be caught for as long as we have, you know everyone is out to get you.
The paranoia indeed runs deep in our community. When you've been knowingly breaking the law and looking over your shoulder to see if you're about to be caught for as long as we have, you know everyone is out to get you.
katie | 1:27 p.m. June 11, 2008
this article is PATHETIC! it really is religious persecution. i think the
deseret news should be ashamed for publishing this article. i don't care
what the purpose was in it. these people have done nothing wrong based on the
article. if you want to post names and faces with crimes, make sure they are
real crimes. pathetic....
Bruce | 1:53 p.m. June 11, 2008
Lets see:
-Someone "stares" at someone else in court or uses "body language" that could suggest that they might not be a total wimp, and we need to post their pictures like mug shots to the masses. (If a muffler were to backfire on Judge Walther's street today, the jackboots would go round up the whole bunch for questioning.)
-A guilty conscience is an ugly thing but the Judge needs to understand that everyone is not as vindictive as she is.
It's the FLDS that need the protection from the judge, not the other way around.
-Someone "stares" at someone else in court or uses "body language" that could suggest that they might not be a total wimp, and we need to post their pictures like mug shots to the masses. (If a muffler were to backfire on Judge Walther's street today, the jackboots would go round up the whole bunch for questioning.)
-A guilty conscience is an ugly thing but the Judge needs to understand that everyone is not as vindictive as she is.
It's the FLDS that need the protection from the judge, not the other way around.
Grandpa Phil | 1:54 p.m. June 11, 2008
You can sure tell school is out. So many adolescents online these days. I
would hate to think that so many of these ridiculous posts are typed by adults.
SOme of these people show all of the reasoning power of a 12 yr old. OK, maybe
9 yr old. The most laughable are the anti-FLDS posing as FLDS making stupid
statements to make the FLDS look bad. That is juvenile and pretty transparent.
zxcvbnm | 2:12 p.m. June 11, 2008
Looks like Hildebrand will add stareing and praying to the next list of FLDS control laws that need to be passed in Texas.
Lets see.....we'll have no stareing, no old dresses....no fresh vegtables (salmonella tomatoes is an FLDS plot), no pressed shirts or pants, everyone must wear red, can't eat uninspected cheese, and anyone that supports the us constitution will be on a subversive list.
I am sure that there will be more time wasted by the state concocting lists and warnings for the texas authorities. At least the cops are busy writeing lists rather than tuning up their tanks.
Jann | 2:19 p.m. June 11, 2008
Re: Grandpa Phil, please tell us who is posting as FLDS?? I believe most FLDS
are uneducated, so who are you talking about? All the posts that I have read on
here look to me like FLDS nonsense. And the DN mug shot of Willie Jessop is a
hoot...lol!
Uneducated? | 2:51 p.m. June 11, 2008
Jann, your educational prejudices are showing!
A good many kids come out of our local high schools as "uneducated" and pretty nearly functionally illeterate. My 5 homeschooled kids took placement tests at the local community college and the lady in charge of the testing center told me to quit being worried about being an inadequate homeschooler--that my kids tested better than many of the kids going thru the honors program at our 3000-student local high school. 3 of the 5 are college graduates--one currently on full scholarship for a Master's degree. My DS son reads fluently. The other son works construction (his choice) and has passed college algebra.
Home education, or even church-sanctioned small private schools (Amish, FLDS, etc.) do NOT mean people will be uneducated. There will be top students in both environments and poor students in them, too.
A good many kids come out of our local high schools as "uneducated" and pretty nearly functionally illeterate. My 5 homeschooled kids took placement tests at the local community college and the lady in charge of the testing center told me to quit being worried about being an inadequate homeschooler--that my kids tested better than many of the kids going thru the honors program at our 3000-student local high school. 3 of the 5 are college graduates--one currently on full scholarship for a Master's degree. My DS son reads fluently. The other son works construction (his choice) and has passed college algebra.
Home education, or even church-sanctioned small private schools (Amish, FLDS, etc.) do NOT mean people will be uneducated. There will be top students in both environments and poor students in them, too.
Re: zxvcbnm | 3:10 p.m. June 11, 2008
No need to add staring; witness tampering is already against the law.
Good one | 3:17 p.m. June 11, 2008
Now THIS is entertainment. Or would be if it wasn't created by the people
elected to protect me.
realitycheck | 3:24 p.m. June 11, 2008
These FLDS are simply slave-owners that are mad that their little slaves might
have been de-programmed.
These are some scary folks. Nothing worse than a religious fanatic, and these people are as fanatical as they come.
These are some scary folks. Nothing worse than a religious fanatic, and these people are as fanatical as they come.
re: witness tampering | 3:35 p.m. June 11, 2008
Staring is not witness tampering.
re - Uneducated | 4:03 p.m. June 11, 2008
no one said home-schooling is bad (except California). What we are saying is
that the FLDS stops at 8th grade, and half of what they teach is bunk.
That's sad. What don't you understand?
shame on you | 4:19 p.m. June 11, 2008
This is disgusting. This community was subjected to a horrible hate crime and
now you are trying to make them look like the Manson Family ?
They didn't attack anyone they were attacked and had their children terrorized by a bunch of goose stepping thugs.
They didn't attack anyone they were attacked and had their children terrorized by a bunch of goose stepping thugs.
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If your purpose had been to inform your readers about clandestine correspondence between law enforcement in Utah and their counterparts in Texas leading up to the YFZ raid, you could have done so without publishing names and what look like "mug shots".