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All FLDS children returned to parents
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Gal50 | 7:41 a.m. June 5, 2008
Actually there are five investigations into criminal behavior regarding the
Texas compound. 1) Wisan who manages the United Effort Plan Trust wants
financial documents pertaining to the YFZ ranch to see if the ranch used
diverted money from the Trust. If so, he intends to put the ranch back into the
trust. This will be strange because the money used to buy the ranch and supplies
was nothing compared with the labor used to transform the ranch into something
far more valuable than what was paid. 2) The FBI executed a warrant on the
compound for unknown reasons. It appears Warren Jeffs had been hidden by his
followers on the grounds of the compound while wanted by the FBI for unlawful
flight. Also there has been mention of interstate trafficking in underage teen
girls. A girl originating from Canada was found in the raid 3) CPS is still
investigating abuse on the compound and just received DNA test results which
should assist in confirming abuse 4) The Texas attorney general's office
and the Texas Rangers are investigating various criminal acts, primarily
statutory rape, failure to protect a minor and polygamy.
Red | 9:25 a.m. June 5, 2008
So much for the hundred or so FLDS kids whose callous, cowardly parents
abandoned them to avoid prosecution.
Comments continue below
Different Stories? | 9:38 a.m. June 5, 2008
This article differs significantly from the article in today's Houston
Chronicle that states that there are 11 girls now believed to have been sexually
abused. The Houston Chronicle also states that only a few of the FLDS families
are actually returning to the YFZ ranch, and that most are choosing to rent or
buy homes elsewhere in Texas. What gives??
To Ray | 9:43 a.m. June 5, 2008
While what you are saying is correct and probably applies to right wing, home of
the republicans, Utah, each state has its own laws as to what actions these
government actors are immune from and Texas, which is home to the democrats, may
have very standards and laws. In addition, there are also possible civil rights
violations of the U.S. Constitution which might have different standards than
each State. I think it is certain that Texas will be paying in the end,
probably in an out of court settlement.
zxcvbnm | 9:47 a.m. June 5, 2008
The next raid should be real entertaining...with the first screw up fresh in the minds of the Texas agencies just how will they arrest anyone on that ranch without raising fears.
I can just see Sheriff Doran with his hat in his hand ........well guys I know that the last time that tank kinda scared yall...so why don't you two pervs just come along now.......i'll have ya home in 20 years.......you guys can trust me.
spiritree | 10:11 a.m. June 5, 2008
Well, the numbers of possible abuse keep falling and the kids and parents are
still being accused of wrong doing without any arrests taken place. If they
could they surly would have tried to scrape the mud off their faces by now!
This is the new bench mark example of a modern 'Witch Hunt' that will
be used forever as an example of overreaction and what can happen when the
rights of individuals are disregarded and trampled on. Shame on Texas!
WorthNoting | 10:18 a.m. June 5, 2008
While I realize that state laws differ, if you google: "An Important Win
For Fathers, Children In Nebraska Supreme Court" and read that article
(June 4, 2008) it is ABOUT a successful lawsuit against CPS - well, actually two
successful lawsuits against CPS.
Re: To Ray | 9:43 a.m | 10:21 a.m. June 5, 2008
Supporting your condescending rebuttal with a bunch of mays, mights, possiblies,
and probablies, without any real substance?
"Qualified immunity" is a legal principle that is applicable in every state, including Texas.
Texas case law provides either absolute immunity or qualified immunity to a public servant depending on the type of authority retained by that individual. For example, judges are generally entitled to the defense of absolute or complete immunity in the exercise of judicial functions. Turner v. Pruitt, 342 S.W.2d 422 (Tex. 1961).
The majority of Texas public servants, however, may only assert a defense of qualified immunity from liability. Qualified immunity provides protection from liability for discretionary actions taken in good faith within the scope of the officer�s or employee�s authority. Determination of whether an action was taken in good faith is a fact issue and a discretionary action involves the exercise of discretion or judgment.
"Qualified immunity" is a legal principle that is applicable in every state, including Texas.
Texas case law provides either absolute immunity or qualified immunity to a public servant depending on the type of authority retained by that individual. For example, judges are generally entitled to the defense of absolute or complete immunity in the exercise of judicial functions. Turner v. Pruitt, 342 S.W.2d 422 (Tex. 1961).
The majority of Texas public servants, however, may only assert a defense of qualified immunity from liability. Qualified immunity provides protection from liability for discretionary actions taken in good faith within the scope of the officer�s or employee�s authority. Determination of whether an action was taken in good faith is a fact issue and a discretionary action involves the exercise of discretion or judgment.
To WorthNoting | 10:36 a.m. June 5, 2008
Seems to depends on where you live and how the laws are written - if they
protect the state agencies.
Jessica | 11:02 a.m. June 5, 2008
I just want to know where the ACLU was all this time?????? And why does the CPS
care of about this possible set of underaged mothers and not the 4 million plus
others in the nation? I know someone personaly that was pregnant at 14 by
someone older than 18.
nantz | 11:18 a.m. June 5, 2008
Gonna be hard to get a jury to side with anything involving these perverts.
Once W. Jeffs is convicted of flat out rape of a minor, most jurors will agree
that Texas authorities were simply acting to protect these children, from
obvious abuse. When CPS found evidence of abuse, their only care was to protect
all the children, as they would in any home where abuse was evident. And yes, we
will all consider this one ranch, one compound, one house.
Just wondering | 11:27 a.m. June 5, 2008
This may be off topic and irrelevant but I was wondering why when they took the
kids the state swooped in with busses, etc to transport the kids.
Now if the families want to get their kids back they have to provide their own transportation and drive around to the various foster-care facilities the State sent them too (sometimes 500 miles one-way) to round up their kids?
These families are not wealthy by any means. It Seems like the State should at least have to reimburse these families for the legal expenses and the expense required to collect their kids after the State took them and scattered them around Texas.
I get the feeling these FLDS families could get a lot more than just transportation and legal expenses from Texas if they decide to take them to court for the civil rights violations. But I don't get the feeling the FLDS are the kind that would rather not go to court, nor use the courts or the media unless compelled to (for good reason).
I just hope those who were unnecessarily caught up in this (the kids) can someday get back to what is normal/happy for them, and-any-actual-provable-abuse-stopped.
Now if the families want to get their kids back they have to provide their own transportation and drive around to the various foster-care facilities the State sent them too (sometimes 500 miles one-way) to round up their kids?
These families are not wealthy by any means. It Seems like the State should at least have to reimburse these families for the legal expenses and the expense required to collect their kids after the State took them and scattered them around Texas.
I get the feeling these FLDS families could get a lot more than just transportation and legal expenses from Texas if they decide to take them to court for the civil rights violations. But I don't get the feeling the FLDS are the kind that would rather not go to court, nor use the courts or the media unless compelled to (for good reason).
I just hope those who were unnecessarily caught up in this (the kids) can someday get back to what is normal/happy for them, and-any-actual-provable-abuse-stopped.
Anon | 11:29 a.m. June 5, 2008
According to Eldorado past articles, there is a Raymond Jessop that is the legal
agent for the corporation that owns the YFZ Ranch. This same Raymond Jessop is
a son of Merrill Jessop, ex-husband of Carolyn Jessop, author of the book
"Escape".
Emma from Illinois | 11:37 a.m. June 5, 2008
WHAT? Now the State is claiming to only have 4 girls, who have been married, or
forced to give birth. Thats a far cry from the origional news that there were
numerous underaged girls walking around this ranch. Also, 26 women were released
that were believed to be minors. Perhaps,like the 37 year old woman held against
her will, who CPS claimed to be a minor also. I would say these women's
rights have been violated, in the worst way. CPS has shown their cruelty in the
worst way. To begin with, CPS, made it sound like they had a really good case of
child abuse against these people. Then, they turn around, and have to say there
was hardly any at all. The importance of these 5, oh , I mean 4 girl's
safety is of extreme importance, but to uproot a whole community over it?
It's very clear to see that CPS has terrified these people enough that they
are not even returning home. I have heard over and over that the women on the
ranch did not recieve welfare. I'm sure they are going to need it now,
thanks to their ongoing struggle with CPS.
Way to go Sherlock! | 11:51 a.m. June 5, 2008
Nice detective work. Now what does it have to do with anything?
Break time | 11:54 a.m. June 5, 2008
I'm tired of reading this silly FLDS nonsense...off to more interesting
articles.
Grandpa Phil | 12:04 p.m. June 5, 2008
Ray, also under 42 US Code 1983, an officer of any agency (Fed, State, or
County) is liable for violations of Constitutional rights if he is acting under
the color of law. I hope the FLDS take them to court.
REAL | 12:18 p.m. June 5, 2008
Re; anon .............BINGO !!! See the direction the criminal
investigation is heading. Would'nt wanna be no Jessop.
Texan | 12:21 p.m. June 5, 2008
So all this civil rights violations for less than 1% of underage girls who got
pregnant. And <10% had signs of previous broken limbs (also abuse - come on,
of my 5 kids 3 broke bones in accidents or sports - get real!). Our school
district (upper middle class - rich) has a greater percentage of under age
pregnancies (close to 5%) as well as drugs, crime, etc and no prosecutions. I
don't condone underage sex or polygamy, but I do stand for the rights of
people to be different.
Texas deserves all the problems it has brought on to them.
Texas deserves all the problems it has brought on to them.
G | 12:26 p.m. June 5, 2008
I wonder why the pro-raid crowd isn't demanding a mass firing of CPS
personnel, who are clearly incompetent?
After all, we were told that there was a "pervasive pattern of abuse" at the compound. They took 460 kids and interviewed them for two months. This was at a cost, according to previous articles, of $60,000/day.
How many examples of abuse do they now claim to have? FOUR.
That's $900,000 per case. This is not including cost of equipment and time provided by third party charities. Nor does it include the free legal counsel.
I think if a competent person were in charge of CPS, and had those resources at their disposal, they could find a lot more than FOUR underage pregnant girls. Especially in places where "systematic abuse" occurs!
After all, we were told that there was a "pervasive pattern of abuse" at the compound. They took 460 kids and interviewed them for two months. This was at a cost, according to previous articles, of $60,000/day.
How many examples of abuse do they now claim to have? FOUR.
That's $900,000 per case. This is not including cost of equipment and time provided by third party charities. Nor does it include the free legal counsel.
I think if a competent person were in charge of CPS, and had those resources at their disposal, they could find a lot more than FOUR underage pregnant girls. Especially in places where "systematic abuse" occurs!
REAL | 12:29 p.m. June 5, 2008
Anyone notice there seems to be less FLDS men (posing as women), posting on
here? Must be busy or somthing. All the children returned, hummm,.......
REAL | 12:34 p.m. June 5, 2008
Has anyone been able to determine where Merrill Jessop is hiding. Who ever
said guilty dogs bark?
nantz | 12:48 p.m. June 5, 2008
Granpa Phil,......are you trying to work your way into the FLDS?
Old Geezer in Vegas | 1:08 p.m. June 5, 2008
Anon stated:
�According to Eldorado past articles, there is a Raymond Jessop that is the legal agent for the corporation that owns the YFZ Ranch. This same Raymond Jessop is a son of Merrill Jessop, ex-husband of Carolyn Jessop, author of the book "Escape".�
Yes and Flora Jessop, Carolyn�s sister is said to be the sheriff�s �Inside Informant� and the person that reported the now dubious calls from �Sara�. Both sisters are making money from interviews given on the various big news channels about what goes on inside the FLDS ranch even though neither one has ever been there. The trouble is that a lot of the public swallows this as the �truth� even though it�s quite evident that both are violently anti-FLDS.
�According to Eldorado past articles, there is a Raymond Jessop that is the legal agent for the corporation that owns the YFZ Ranch. This same Raymond Jessop is a son of Merrill Jessop, ex-husband of Carolyn Jessop, author of the book "Escape".�
Yes and Flora Jessop, Carolyn�s sister is said to be the sheriff�s �Inside Informant� and the person that reported the now dubious calls from �Sara�. Both sisters are making money from interviews given on the various big news channels about what goes on inside the FLDS ranch even though neither one has ever been there. The trouble is that a lot of the public swallows this as the �truth� even though it�s quite evident that both are violently anti-FLDS.
re: gal50 | 1:17 p.m. June 5, 2008
And the vultures circle hoping to find some--just some--justification for
stealing 440 some odd kids.
Don't worry, even if the DNA doesn't turn up anything, you'll still be able to move on to baby waterboarding. Or temple sex beds. Or cyanide documents. There's something out there you can get them on.
Don't worry, even if the DNA doesn't turn up anything, you'll still be able to move on to baby waterboarding. Or temple sex beds. Or cyanide documents. There's something out there you can get them on.
re: nantz & Grandpa Phil | 1:21 p.m. June 5, 2008
Officials (judges, police officers, CPS agents) who use the "color of any
law" to deprive citizens of their constitutional rights commit a federal
crime (Title 18 U S Code section 242)
The Department of Justice has a good page on their site describing it.
This is the time and situation to apply this law.
The Department of Justice has a good page on their site describing it.
This is the time and situation to apply this law.
wyogirl | 1:25 p.m. June 5, 2008
I guess is boils down to who you believe:
from the article:
When CPS and law enforcement arrived on the ranch, they said they found other evidence of abuse that prompted a judge to order all of the children removed from the FLDS property. Child welfare authorities have alleged a pattern of abuse at the ranch, with girls being groomed to become child brides and boys growing up to be sexual perpetrators.
The FLDS have denied any abuse.
---------------------------------------
The FLDS - over many years - have demonstrated themselves to be secretive, sneaky liars. Examples: They believe themselves to be married, but claim welfare money as single moms - when they know darn well, who the fathers of their many children are. They, as a people, are supported by lies. Those that had to testify in court have lied giving vague answers of "I don't know, and I can't remember" to questions anyone of sound mind could answer. Their leader - who they declare is "perfect" was supported and hidden by these followers while he was being hunted by the FBI. They risked the safety of their children to protect him.
I'll check out the Huston Chronical...thanks for the tip.
from the article:
When CPS and law enforcement arrived on the ranch, they said they found other evidence of abuse that prompted a judge to order all of the children removed from the FLDS property. Child welfare authorities have alleged a pattern of abuse at the ranch, with girls being groomed to become child brides and boys growing up to be sexual perpetrators.
The FLDS have denied any abuse.
---------------------------------------
The FLDS - over many years - have demonstrated themselves to be secretive, sneaky liars. Examples: They believe themselves to be married, but claim welfare money as single moms - when they know darn well, who the fathers of their many children are. They, as a people, are supported by lies. Those that had to testify in court have lied giving vague answers of "I don't know, and I can't remember" to questions anyone of sound mind could answer. Their leader - who they declare is "perfect" was supported and hidden by these followers while he was being hunted by the FBI. They risked the safety of their children to protect him.
I'll check out the Huston Chronical...thanks for the tip.
Nelisse | 1:29 p.m. June 5, 2008
Thanks for keeping up with this story. I know some people are getting tired of
reading about it, but I am not. I think if the media and public start ignoring
this story, the FLDS rights will go out the window. Keep up the good work,
Deseret News!
Too "REAL | 12:29 p.m." | 2:03 p.m. June 5, 2008
You're starting to sound a little paranoid.
You can actually tell the religion and sex of a commenter from their comment?
You can actually tell the religion and sex of a commenter from their comment?
Relocated Southerner | 2:23 p.m. June 5, 2008
Qualified immunity shields the "officials" from being prosecuted while
performing their duties. The state government agency itself can still be sued.
For that matter, so can the specific government officials. It will be up to
their attorneys to plead qualified immunity as a defense against any charges,
but pleading that doesn't necessarily mean the court will rule in their
favor on that argument either.
Be For Real | 2:27 p.m. June 5, 2008
All of the lawsuit talk is a little far-fetched. It would be a difficult burden
for the FLDS to get over the governmental immunity statutes because CPS was
acting on a court order and, even though the evidence of abuse may not have been
what they thought it was, I don't think they could prove that their
constitutional rights were intentionally trampled by CPS. Moreover, the last
thing the FLDS want to do at this point is draw more attention to themselves.
re: Red | 2:39 p.m. June 5, 2008
Are you retarded ? ALL children have been returned. No one abandoned no one.
getreal | 2:48 p.m. June 5, 2008
Many of the adults who were classified as children are 18-20, with children
ranging from 2-6. Do the math.
COSMO | 2:59 p.m. June 5, 2008
Re:wyogirl; CPS made a multitude of claims, we all have read them,and they were
addressed in court, 2 times. The factual evidence that is required to standup
in court, simply was not there.
May I respectfully say that your second paragraph,is
based solely upon conjecture, innuendo, and on a whole, very subjective. As to old Happy Hips Warren,
I cannot account for his delusions. I hope that the
FLDS will make positive changes in their lives,and
obey the law of the land, along with the laws of God. P.S. no I am not of their faith! :-)Hope you studies are being of value.
May I respectfully say that your second paragraph,is
based solely upon conjecture, innuendo, and on a whole, very subjective. As to old Happy Hips Warren,
I cannot account for his delusions. I hope that the
FLDS will make positive changes in their lives,and
obey the law of the land, along with the laws of God. P.S. no I am not of their faith! :-)Hope you studies are being of value.
zxcvbnm | 3:13 p.m. June 5, 2008
Re Be For Real
Oh the lawsuits will come. There are already attorneys lineing up to get their piece of the pie.
There are enough documents already out there that call into question the CPS motives and their intentional disregard of Texas law.
The criminal cases haven't been filed yet but the CPS and LE tactics are enough to taint a criminal case........no it isn't over but evidence is tainted and the State is in a bad position....The federal courts will throw out the cases and Texas will have to remove several laws from the books.
Just the opinion of a regular guy but hey....I can read the constitution too.
Oh the lawsuits will come. There are already attorneys lineing up to get their piece of the pie.
There are enough documents already out there that call into question the CPS motives and their intentional disregard of Texas law.
The criminal cases haven't been filed yet but the CPS and LE tactics are enough to taint a criminal case........no it isn't over but evidence is tainted and the State is in a bad position....The federal courts will throw out the cases and Texas will have to remove several laws from the books.
Just the opinion of a regular guy but hey....I can read the constitution too.
To LV Geezer | 3:19 p.m. June 5, 2008
Don't jump to conclusions geez. The Jessop girls, although sharing many
personality traits and dishonesty issues, are not sisters.
Joshua Greenberg | 3:31 p.m. June 5, 2008
Seems like a lot of CPS, Judge Walthers and even Sherriff Doran on here
today...LOL, but true. Not even one kind word for these people? Day after day I
read Gal 5O and all of you and it is pitiable. I am not FLDS, such pathetic
souls who have nothing better to do than bash a people. Why not pray and hope if
there were abuses, changes would come, you are Texans and supporters who want
them, the FLDS out of the state and that's it, period. Gal 5O, who died and
made you God and now you are pontificating of what happened and you have all the
details? Get a life and a job, a real job, not to persecute innocent people. I
have been in contact with many texans, and they are not happy with the likes of
people like you. I am a JEW and side with the FLDS, don't leave your home
and beautiful Temple and Ranch. I believe the LDS and the FLDS show greatest
love and Christ Like actions, not you of other faiths...some yes, so why not
pray and offer to help these folks???? Pitiable, same ones on here, day after
day LOL
Joshua Greenberg | 3:34 p.m. June 5, 2008
Yes, thank G-d for the Deseret News. You are so good and we thank you for your
reporting. I may not agree with the anti flds, but as AMERICANS, we have that
special privelege to do so. Again, thank you Deseret News .
Hypocrits | 3:51 p.m. June 5, 2008
"I wonder why the pro-raid crowd isn't demanding a mass firing of CPS
personnel, who are clearly incompetent?"
To: G | 12:26 p.m ... and all of the other CPS-criticizing Hypocrits:
You complained about ALL of the FLDS being painted with the same broad stroke as child-abusers, and now you want ALL of the CPS workers to be painted with the same broad stroke as incompetent???
At worst, a very small handful of CPS workers might be held accountable for over-reacting to the reports of child-abuse in removing ALL of the children from the YFZ ranch.
The vast majority of CPS workers were simply doing their best to care for the children in a very difficult situation.
In the end, the real culprit is Warren Jeffs, the liar and child-abuser who instituted the practice of forced underage marriages, and, from all indications, was the one who had the most child brides.
If you want to place blame for what happened to the FLDS children, place the blame on their misguided "prophet," Warren Jeffs, who hoodwinked their parents into believing that this is what god wanted them to do.
To: G | 12:26 p.m ... and all of the other CPS-criticizing Hypocrits:
You complained about ALL of the FLDS being painted with the same broad stroke as child-abusers, and now you want ALL of the CPS workers to be painted with the same broad stroke as incompetent???
At worst, a very small handful of CPS workers might be held accountable for over-reacting to the reports of child-abuse in removing ALL of the children from the YFZ ranch.
The vast majority of CPS workers were simply doing their best to care for the children in a very difficult situation.
In the end, the real culprit is Warren Jeffs, the liar and child-abuser who instituted the practice of forced underage marriages, and, from all indications, was the one who had the most child brides.
If you want to place blame for what happened to the FLDS children, place the blame on their misguided "prophet," Warren Jeffs, who hoodwinked their parents into believing that this is what god wanted them to do.
Anonymous | 4:06 p.m. June 5, 2008
I saw some pictures of little girls returned to their mothers. How sad for
those little girls, their fate is set. At least Texas took the initiative and
tried to save little children and young women from a fate worth than death. And
you are happy for these children?
RealityCheck | 4:06 p.m. June 5, 2008
The Texas witch hunt is too much like the Boston Commons hangings of 1660 to be
forgotten.
The government terror of the minority group, particularly based upon religion, is why the United States of America has a Constitution that authorizes only a limited government.
Now, the Texas witch hunt will continue how?
The government terror of the minority group, particularly based upon religion, is why the United States of America has a Constitution that authorizes only a limited government.
Now, the Texas witch hunt will continue how?
Sabrina | 4:11 p.m. June 5, 2008
So horrible to hear what mental health professionals are saying that these
children will suffer for a very long time from what has happened to them. So sad
of our government to have done this to then and their mothers.
realitycheck | 4:12 p.m. June 5, 2008
re - re:Red 2:39pm
Many of the pre-teen to teen children were sent to YFZ ranch from Utah and Arizona. Being chosen to move there is a huge honor for FLDS. Mostly young girls were sent, from as far away as Canada. Their parents weren't invited. (Wonder why)
Many of the children were picked up at the shelters by "caregivers", not their parents. CPS merely ensured they had a record (photo, thumbprint, and signature) of who picked up each child.
So it depends on your point of view. I think if you send your child away to live somewhere else on a permanent basis, you have in fact abandoned them. Others would argue that it's merely a "reassignment". In my book, that's the same thing.
Many of the pre-teen to teen children were sent to YFZ ranch from Utah and Arizona. Being chosen to move there is a huge honor for FLDS. Mostly young girls were sent, from as far away as Canada. Their parents weren't invited. (Wonder why)
Many of the children were picked up at the shelters by "caregivers", not their parents. CPS merely ensured they had a record (photo, thumbprint, and signature) of who picked up each child.
So it depends on your point of view. I think if you send your child away to live somewhere else on a permanent basis, you have in fact abandoned them. Others would argue that it's merely a "reassignment". In my book, that's the same thing.
ediddy | 4:16 p.m. June 5, 2008
To Wyogirl:
Cmon, is your real name not Caroly or Flora or maybe Rosie? The sneaky FLDS liars. I suspect you are foisting off your own faults on others, or at least shooting from the bushes. What is your real agenda, ...no wait, it's obvious.
Cmon, is your real name not Caroly or Flora or maybe Rosie? The sneaky FLDS liars. I suspect you are foisting off your own faults on others, or at least shooting from the bushes. What is your real agenda, ...no wait, it's obvious.
wyogirl | 4:30 p.m. June 5, 2008
I don't have TV, or the time/desire to read a lot of different articles on this subject. I came across a DS article, and out of habit have kept coming here for info on this subject. BUT, I looked at another paper today and found the following:
"Two weeks ago at their children's custody hearings, a number of mothers, including a wife of YFZ leader Merrill Jessop, testified that their spouses had disappeared, leaving no forwarding information.
A source close to the investigation said authorities believe many of the men who were at the ranch at the time of the raid have gone underground. "The vast majority have been moved," said the source, who could not be quoted by name because he is not authorized to speak publicly.
Only about a third of the families are expected back at the Yearning For Zion Ranch this week, said Willie Jessop"
Willie said the women and children didn't return because of the trauma they endured at the ranch. Maybe that's true for them - I'd want to go home, especially if it was a happy home as they claimed it was. It will be interesting to see how many return.
Emma in Illinois | 4:43 p.m. June 5, 2008
Two wrongs do NOT make a right, it is not okay to justify hurting 400+ children
over the religion that their parents have choosen for them. Many of the CPS
workers may have been kind to these children, but, there was also a total lack
of disregard for these people's beliefs, such as CPS workers showing up at
the ranch wearing clothing that the FLDS children saw as not morally right,
according to their religion. Also, according the mental health workers, who were
there at the time of this invasion, these people, were treated very cruelly.
These children were not used to seeing their mothers humiliated, guns
everywhere, their church, desecrated. Then to be torn from your mother's
arms, I can think of nothing worse. Something else could have been done insted
of the way CPS went about the whole thing. People everywhere need to be aware of
what has happened in Texas, if the government can overstep it's boudaries
there, it can anywhere. If 4 girls have been abused, then those who are guilty
should be held acountable. But, don't punish innocent women and
children." Don't mess with Texas", more like "Don't go
to Texas".
realitycheck | 4:52 p.m. June 5, 2008
ah - the FLDS poster using my name is back - gotta clear up the
misconception.
It's not a witch hunt, it was an attempt to stop possible child abuse. It now appears there wasn't as much sexual abuse as they thought there was.
Unfortunately, that's not the only child abuse that needs to be stopped.
These children's have no future. They will be confined to a guarded compound.
I know you hate to hear it, but at least I'm not spouting off about accusations that I can't back up. Mine are self-evident.
You hide your children from the world. In doing so, you ensure your ranks will swell rather than diminish. I get why you do it. But it's unfair to the child.
Ask yourself this: If you raised your child out in the real world, as most of us do, teaching them everything you know about your religion and being a good and rightious person, but also how to survive in a changing world - and then at 18 you told them "you can go live at YFZ or go out and make your mark in the world" - which would they choose?
Self-evident.
It's not a witch hunt, it was an attempt to stop possible child abuse. It now appears there wasn't as much sexual abuse as they thought there was.
Unfortunately, that's not the only child abuse that needs to be stopped.
These children's have no future. They will be confined to a guarded compound.
I know you hate to hear it, but at least I'm not spouting off about accusations that I can't back up. Mine are self-evident.
You hide your children from the world. In doing so, you ensure your ranks will swell rather than diminish. I get why you do it. But it's unfair to the child.
Ask yourself this: If you raised your child out in the real world, as most of us do, teaching them everything you know about your religion and being a good and rightious person, but also how to survive in a changing world - and then at 18 you told them "you can go live at YFZ or go out and make your mark in the world" - which would they choose?
Self-evident.
re: CPS workers | 4:54 p.m. June 5, 2008
CPS workers have the power of the state, and therefore have more responsibility.
No citizenry should accept such abuse of power, with underlings just claiming
"I was just following orders."
The organization as a whole, because of their agency status, bears the total brunt of ALL of the wrongs done under its name.
The organization as a whole, because of their agency status, bears the total brunt of ALL of the wrongs done under its name.
Red | 4:59 p.m. June 5, 2008
re: Red 2:39 p.m.: "Are you retarded ? ALL children have been returned. No
one abandoned no one."
Sorry that sarcasm and irony don't always come through in print.
You are making the same point I was.
A lot of messagers have argued that, because the Eldorado newspapers' notice of suit listed a hundred or so kids that hadn't been matched with any adults, many parents must have skipped out, leaving the kids behind.
I agree with you: no kids left over. No parents (or "caregivers," as some insist) who valued guaranteeing their own freedom over their responsibility to the little ones.
Sorry that sarcasm and irony don't always come through in print.
You are making the same point I was.
A lot of messagers have argued that, because the Eldorado newspapers' notice of suit listed a hundred or so kids that hadn't been matched with any adults, many parents must have skipped out, leaving the kids behind.
I agree with you: no kids left over. No parents (or "caregivers," as some insist) who valued guaranteeing their own freedom over their responsibility to the little ones.
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If the sheriff had reason to even suspect maybe that the calls were bogus, and he kept going, he's fair game in court!
Go for it FLDS women!