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Split was a heavy burden for FLDS family
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Really? | 5:54 a.m. June 4, 2008
How is it that there are 5 of the 'top 10' stories on the FLDS? Can we
just write one every third day and lump all these together so we can discuss
something else? ENOUGH ALREADY!!!
David | 6:20 a.m. June 4, 2008
This article brought tears to my eyes. It is good to read that there are some
people that don't based their beliefs about the FLDS on rumor and gossip,
but as the courts did, on evidence. Had the first court simply followed the rule
of law, this would never have happened. CPS was well within its rights to have
asked the men to leave the ranch, but they didn't. There were many
options, but CPS chose the one that would be most dangerous for the families and
especially the children to the tune of $7 million. The local government actually
suggested that the FLDS pay, but that idea was shut down because of the 2 higher
court rulings.
I hope and pray that no FLDS children or any other children within CPS were/are abused or molested while incarcerated, but statistically I know otherwise especially given the recent "guardian" that was charged.
Hopefully these united families may go to there temporary homes and begin healing and then hopefully return home to the ranch. Unfortunately it seems that an entirely new generation has been taught to hate us and our overbearing ways. This wasn't Short Creek, this was much worse.
I hope and pray that no FLDS children or any other children within CPS were/are abused or molested while incarcerated, but statistically I know otherwise especially given the recent "guardian" that was charged.
Hopefully these united families may go to there temporary homes and begin healing and then hopefully return home to the ranch. Unfortunately it seems that an entirely new generation has been taught to hate us and our overbearing ways. This wasn't Short Creek, this was much worse.
Comments continue below
Bot | 6:39 a.m. June 4, 2008
It appears there may be one girl who conceived prior to age 16. That is the
only charge that might stick. Was it worth uprooting 450 children and their
parents to find those one or two girls? There's no welfare fraud (check
the county records). They paid more than their share of real estate tax, and
the FLDS home-school their children.
Tell me where the state's interests are being compromised. Prosecute the men who fathered children from girls 15 or less, and let the others return to the ranch where the children were loved, educated, and had extended family relationships.
If the state really wants to stop child abuse, the CPS should concentrate on inner-city Dallas or Houston girls who conceived at age 15 or less. Jail the twenty-something men who impregnated them and attach their wages so the welfare queens can be self-supporting (like the FLDS). Then prosecute the Planned Parenthood offices which refuse to identify the adult fathers who impregnate girls 15 or less. Those offices should be closed down.
Tell me where the state's interests are being compromised. Prosecute the men who fathered children from girls 15 or less, and let the others return to the ranch where the children were loved, educated, and had extended family relationships.
If the state really wants to stop child abuse, the CPS should concentrate on inner-city Dallas or Houston girls who conceived at age 15 or less. Jail the twenty-something men who impregnated them and attach their wages so the welfare queens can be self-supporting (like the FLDS). Then prosecute the Planned Parenthood offices which refuse to identify the adult fathers who impregnate girls 15 or less. Those offices should be closed down.
betty | 6:47 a.m. June 4, 2008
something none of the family stories coming out are telling us, which wife is
this??? legal wife or whatever they call the "others"
zxcvbnm | 7:11 a.m. June 4, 2008
Texas can start with an apology and I have no doubt that it will be accepted.
Promise these children that this will never happen again in Texas and that their children can grow up with no fear of tanks and troops.
These gracious people have more Christian forgiveness and love in their hearts that their tormentors have in their book of CPS tricks.
How many times will we hear "good faith" and "just doing our job" used as an excuse in the next few months.
Leave these people alone to worship their God in peace.
Shame on Texas
Phantom Panther | 7:15 a.m. June 4, 2008
I hope the FDLS leaders are serious when they say they are going to stop
marrying off underage girls. They also need to allow some freedom in the group.
Leadership needn't be dictatorship. Had Warren Jeffs shown leadership and
not been marrying off underage girls it's likely none of this would have
happened. Perhaps Jeffs' prison time and the raid will wake this group up.
Brooke | 7:21 a.m. June 4, 2008
Thank Goodness for Lawyers and the Law. Otherwise these children would still be
stolen by Texans Bible Thumpers. (I mean kidnappers)
God bless | 7:25 a.m. June 4, 2008
God Bless you Edson Jessop and all atYFZ ranch and all the wonderful lawyers!
Hum? | 7:53 a.m. June 4, 2008
"Edson tried to console the boys" - Earlier reports said FLDS boys are
shunned
"interview took place on the grass in front of the YFZ school building" - Ealier reports implied the kids were ignorant and uneducated.
"excited to be back in her mother's arms" - Sound like an abused child?
I think Texas officials went in with "guns blazing" only to realize they look real stupid. Now they are trying to justify their actions by building a case against the FLDS. At what point does Texas realize they are doing more harm then good?
I think we need a good old-fashioned independent investigation by the Feds to see what is really going on. The PR story we get doesn't seem to add up.
Mark my words. When the truth comes out, Texas officials will scurry away like rats from a sinking ship.
"interview took place on the grass in front of the YFZ school building" - Ealier reports implied the kids were ignorant and uneducated.
"excited to be back in her mother's arms" - Sound like an abused child?
I think Texas officials went in with "guns blazing" only to realize they look real stupid. Now they are trying to justify their actions by building a case against the FLDS. At what point does Texas realize they are doing more harm then good?
I think we need a good old-fashioned independent investigation by the Feds to see what is really going on. The PR story we get doesn't seem to add up.
Mark my words. When the truth comes out, Texas officials will scurry away like rats from a sinking ship.
To "Really?" | 8:38 a.m. June 4, 2008
What's the matter? Are you sick of hearing about people's
constitutional rights being violated? I didn't realize there was a
time-frame in which in could be discussed. Maybe you ought to consider reading
a good novel instead of reading the paper and watching the news. The majority
of the rest of us, however, would like to see this to the end.
Payment Time | 8:41 a.m. June 4, 2008
Re: Really?
How cruel... these lives are in shatters and you are more worried about Obama who didn't even stand up for Consitutional Rights during this mess or even said anything (McCain not excluded).. If you can't see how important this is, you are sadly a heartless person. I hope we see more stories on how Texas screwed up these children..
I hope Texas CPS gets overhauled and Walthers impeached..
There is a gopetition Walther (google it) to sign the petition.
Re: Barthleby
This is not over.. CPS will still be reaking havoc for awhile yet, then Texas will take their turn--they are already drafting new laws in Janurary to split them up and persecute them.. then the Feds will have their turn.. I hope the media keeps up with this.
CPS can do this to anyone, anytime..all on an anynomous phone call (violation of the right to face your accuser)... they can shred your life up and say sorry... CPS is still propaganaing concerning the return of the children.
How cruel... these lives are in shatters and you are more worried about Obama who didn't even stand up for Consitutional Rights during this mess or even said anything (McCain not excluded).. If you can't see how important this is, you are sadly a heartless person. I hope we see more stories on how Texas screwed up these children..
I hope Texas CPS gets overhauled and Walthers impeached..
There is a gopetition Walther (google it) to sign the petition.
Re: Barthleby
This is not over.. CPS will still be reaking havoc for awhile yet, then Texas will take their turn--they are already drafting new laws in Janurary to split them up and persecute them.. then the Feds will have their turn.. I hope the media keeps up with this.
CPS can do this to anyone, anytime..all on an anynomous phone call (violation of the right to face your accuser)... they can shred your life up and say sorry... CPS is still propaganaing concerning the return of the children.
p-t-max | 8:43 a.m. June 4, 2008
I think we need to hear about these people. Don't want to read or hear
about them? Turn the page, change the channel, or look the other way, like the
people of Texas did while their rights were trampled and the Texas constitution
was shredded.
So the boys are angry and defiant. Good for them, they have a right to be. I hope some day their hearts can heal.
So the boys are angry and defiant. Good for them, they have a right to be. I hope some day their hearts can heal.
Bruce | 8:48 a.m. June 4, 2008
Thank you DN for continuing to post FLDS updates. The MSM flooded the airwaves
with sensationalism for the first few weeks and then, when the truth came out
about the government atrocities, you hardly heard anything.
A great injustice has been done to these families and we won't turn our backs on them.
A great injustice has been done to these families and we won't turn our backs on them.
Sweet Family | 8:50 a.m. June 4, 2008
My first reaction looking at the pictures in this story of this family, is they
are just sweet--and isn't it a PITY that they aren't the
"complete" family. If it was just them, as they are pictured--without
some other poor woman (or women) and other poor children lurking about
somewhere.
To Betty | 9:07 a.m. June 4, 2008
I really prefer the FLDS people taking multiple wives and taking care of them
than what I see out on the streets, in the offices, in the malls....it goes on
and on. There are bad people, women and men, who run around having affairs, or
just do what feels good for the moment. The FLDS care about their families. They
take care of their families. They made their city a good place. I don't
think that you can say they were a burden on our society like many people are
today, like all of Hollywood. Maybe their way isn't our way. Maybe you and
I would never marry a man who has three wives, but I would rather see someone
with three wives who cares for them and helps them to be happy and have good
self images, who lets them become the women they want to be, than I would like
to see a scummy guy walking around eyeballing every pretty skirt that exists. I
know and see plenty of those scuzzy guys. I'm sure you do too.
Anonymous | 9:14 a.m. June 4, 2008
I agree that if Warren Jeffs had abided by the legality of under age girls being
inpregnated we would have never had a problem with this religious group. I
watched "Nancy Grace" exaggerate the truth over and over, especially
about these women being on welfare and abusing the government by using funds
illegally. So, now I wonder did Warren Jeff's even marry 12 and 13 year
old girls. When will the Media be chastised for their emblellishment of the
truth. This is just one of the many reasons I don't watch the news.
"Nancy Grace" needs to publically apologize for her statements, but
fat chance that will ever happen. If I had the opportunity, I would gladly join
this group of people. I have my own source of income, so I do not need a
lifestyle to be taken care of, only a loving place to reside. The women are
soft spoken and articulate, they are not mice. I wish there was a place where we
could learn more about the FLDS lifestyle. I am so pleased that the children
are back with their parents. But where were the Fathers during this crisis?
Why were they not supporting their wives?
Southern Utah Resident | 10:03 a.m. June 4, 2008
These young girls deserve better than this!
Denise | 10:20 a.m. June 4, 2008
Re: Anonymous
The men were supporting their wives, the media just didn't want to show it.
The men were supporting their wives, the media just didn't want to show it.
David S. | 10:21 a.m. June 4, 2008
God bless and heal this family.
realitycheck | 10:25 a.m. June 4, 2008
although I am glad the children are back with their parents, I am saddened that
these children have nothing to look forward to (unless you consider watering
flowers for 80 years to be a life.)
They are sheltered from the world - and while some of you find that to be acceptable, or even a good thing, I find it to be a total violation of the children's civil rights.
If you want to hide from the world, go ahead - do it. It's your choice. But to put your children into the position where that is all they know... well, that's abusive. You're robbing them of a future they may wish to choose, but cannot because they don't know how.
I'm so glad some of the mothers have figured this out and chose to live with their children out in the real world.
And I can already hear it... "what's so great about the real world. Drugs, sex, all these bad things..." The difference, people, is giving the children the opportunity to make choices about their futures as they grow up. America is a great country, and it's a big world out there. Kids deserve opportunities and choices.
They are sheltered from the world - and while some of you find that to be acceptable, or even a good thing, I find it to be a total violation of the children's civil rights.
If you want to hide from the world, go ahead - do it. It's your choice. But to put your children into the position where that is all they know... well, that's abusive. You're robbing them of a future they may wish to choose, but cannot because they don't know how.
I'm so glad some of the mothers have figured this out and chose to live with their children out in the real world.
And I can already hear it... "what's so great about the real world. Drugs, sex, all these bad things..." The difference, people, is giving the children the opportunity to make choices about their futures as they grow up. America is a great country, and it's a big world out there. Kids deserve opportunities and choices.
mdkt | 10:25 a.m. June 4, 2008
In looking at photos of families, I do not see the "old" men married
to underage girls. I see what appears to be mature parents, loving their
children, just as are seen anywhere else.
to anonymous 9:14am | 10:32 a.m. June 4, 2008
I agree with your "Namcy Grace" disgrace.
I am not FLDS but I am a plural wife in a different group. I can tell you that we did see many of the men. There are many more women. The men I have met throughout the years, are men of great honor and commitment to their families. The reason you see women from the polygamous culture more than the men is because it is the women that make the choice to marry and be a Mother. That is why we stand up first, because we want to stand up and take responsibility for our choices. Not stand in the shadows. I have appriciated the FLDS people letting their light shine.
I am not FLDS but I am a plural wife in a different group. I can tell you that we did see many of the men. There are many more women. The men I have met throughout the years, are men of great honor and commitment to their families. The reason you see women from the polygamous culture more than the men is because it is the women that make the choice to marry and be a Mother. That is why we stand up first, because we want to stand up and take responsibility for our choices. Not stand in the shadows. I have appriciated the FLDS people letting their light shine.
David | 10:43 a.m. June 4, 2008
What is so bad about being a farmer? And, why the need to insult such a noble profession? I am thankful every day of my life for the hard work that farmers put forth. The other problem is your bizarre assumption that FLDS children only "water flowers for 80 years." I find no basis for such an invalid assumption especially given that there are RN's, paramedics and others among the women of the FLDS. Do you also demean RN's? You claim they are sheltered from the world, yet when did you last bring your kids to the Projects to break bread and hang out? Why do you violate the "children's civil rights" of your own children? Ultimately at issue seems to be that so long as others are being picked on there will be those like you that join the fray. Heaven forbid you are picked as the next unpopular victim with gossip and innuendo given as fact, despite the knowledge and proof that such are lies.
realitycheck re- David | 10:54 a.m. June 4, 2008
If you are responding to me, where did I say anything bad about farmers?
Farmers are great - my grandparents were farmers.
But I'm not a farmer. And that's because I was given every opportunity to choose my future, and I was given the tools needed to do so.
The FLDS parents do not provide opportunity nor tools to choose a different future. The kids are destined to be farmers. That's not freedom - that's creating little child farm slaves. It's also immoral to deny opportunity for a different life.
And you can compare it to whatever you want. Any DECENT parent wants the best for their children. And the best means allowing them to have a future of their own choosing - NOT A FUTURE OF THE PARENT'S CHOOSING.
But I'm not a farmer. And that's because I was given every opportunity to choose my future, and I was given the tools needed to do so.
The FLDS parents do not provide opportunity nor tools to choose a different future. The kids are destined to be farmers. That's not freedom - that's creating little child farm slaves. It's also immoral to deny opportunity for a different life.
And you can compare it to whatever you want. Any DECENT parent wants the best for their children. And the best means allowing them to have a future of their own choosing - NOT A FUTURE OF THE PARENT'S CHOOSING.
Sabrina in Mississippi | 11:18 a.m. June 4, 2008
I hope that the FLDS realize through all of this, that there are people who do
care about the rights of innocent people. There have been many who have opposed
what happened in Texas, and will do whatever it takes to help them. Many lawyers
came out of nowhere to help these people,free, in good faith. I have shed tears
of my own for these people watching this horrid injustice. Also, I have always
been a fan of Nancy Grace, no more. Not if she feels it's okay to cruelly
rip mothers away from their children, because of the alleged abuse of a few. I
am overjoyed that these children are back with their mothers.
Mimi | 11:19 a.m. June 4, 2008
Anyone besides me wonder why Anne's mother chose NOT to remain with her
3-year-old child at the shelter? She WAS given that option, according to
earlier news reports.
Far from over | 11:23 a.m. June 4, 2008
If they think it's a burden now, wait until they take the fathers away and
start the arrests. Since they are photographing the parents of each child,
I'm sure they will document ages of the wives, do a little math, and then
go after the fathers for statutory rape. Go Texas!
the truth | 11:27 a.m. June 4, 2008
I hope they can get some older kids with more composure and a non biased TV
interviewer to let the true story of what happened to these kids come out for
all the world to hear.
David | 11:30 a.m. June 4, 2008
You stated that all they would do is "water flowers for 80 years."
That is an anti-farmer and derogatory comment, even if you now pretend
otherwise. Even if you are not a farmer, you survive BECAUSE of farmers. You
insult the FLDS for being self-sustaining though you would prove incapable of
being self-sustaining if forced. You assume that no choice is given, because
that is what you desire to believe and such is not based on facts, but
stereotypes. You pull out of your hat that "the kids are destined to be
farmers", when real facts completely betray such and show that this is
simply one of their chores. You fail to acknowledge the women with advanced
educations and cannot help but wonder why, but perhaps to further your argument
which would then make you a purposeful liar.
You remarks about decent parenting is amusing rhetoric that is readily discounted. There is nothing, other than your own pulled-from-hat-beliefs, that reflect parents chose careers for their FLDS children. Children garden, as I did, because it taught responsibility. You might not find that valuable, but I certainly did. It was that responsibility taught that pulled me through a Master's Degree. And you?
You remarks about decent parenting is amusing rhetoric that is readily discounted. There is nothing, other than your own pulled-from-hat-beliefs, that reflect parents chose careers for their FLDS children. Children garden, as I did, because it taught responsibility. You might not find that valuable, but I certainly did. It was that responsibility taught that pulled me through a Master's Degree. And you?
re david | 11:53 a.m. June 4, 2008
That person is obviously a religious bigot who will never reform.
If the worst things that the FLDS is guilty of is Growing plants and milking cows then sign me up !!
Seriously Parents have every right in the world to raise their children in a protected environment. The kids are NOT in prison. They are at home with their parents living on a big farm with its own school and many enriching activities. Isn't it strange how none of these FLDS haters ever cares about the lives of people in Ghettos or thousands of underage girls forced into prostitution.
They are nothing but a bunch of hypocrite hate mongers.
Maybe the FLDS kids are missing out on the enriching experience of drunken orgies and drive by shootings. Let the anti FLDS hate mongers feel free to expose their own kids to that lifestyle and stop trying to shove it down the throats of these "salt of the earth" people.
If the worst things that the FLDS is guilty of is Growing plants and milking cows then sign me up !!
Seriously Parents have every right in the world to raise their children in a protected environment. The kids are NOT in prison. They are at home with their parents living on a big farm with its own school and many enriching activities. Isn't it strange how none of these FLDS haters ever cares about the lives of people in Ghettos or thousands of underage girls forced into prostitution.
They are nothing but a bunch of hypocrite hate mongers.
Maybe the FLDS kids are missing out on the enriching experience of drunken orgies and drive by shootings. Let the anti FLDS hate mongers feel free to expose their own kids to that lifestyle and stop trying to shove it down the throats of these "salt of the earth" people.
realitycheck | 12:03 p.m. June 4, 2008
ah - David - your FLDS colors are shining through. No one else would try to
turn my opinion into a derogatory remark.
so you have a masters degree - good for you - I have one too. It is safe to assume you didn't live on the YFZ compound.
So - how many of these FLDS children will get one - or even be given the opportunity to get one? You know exactly what I am saying. You needn't try to twist it. Everyone here understands exactly what I am saying. You may disagree with the fact of whether it is wrong to do that to your children, but don't act like the isolation and lack of opportunity isn't real.
what is it about what I am saying that you are so afraid, that you feel the need to twist it? Do you really think that the people reading this are going to think less (or more) of the FLDS based on my comments? We all already know it is happening. Some think it's fine, others agree that the children have a lack of opportunity later in life.
Doens't make any of it untrue - just differing opinions.
so you have a masters degree - good for you - I have one too. It is safe to assume you didn't live on the YFZ compound.
So - how many of these FLDS children will get one - or even be given the opportunity to get one? You know exactly what I am saying. You needn't try to twist it. Everyone here understands exactly what I am saying. You may disagree with the fact of whether it is wrong to do that to your children, but don't act like the isolation and lack of opportunity isn't real.
what is it about what I am saying that you are so afraid, that you feel the need to twist it? Do you really think that the people reading this are going to think less (or more) of the FLDS based on my comments? We all already know it is happening. Some think it's fine, others agree that the children have a lack of opportunity later in life.
Doens't make any of it untrue - just differing opinions.
David | 12:33 p.m. June 4, 2008
My FLDS colors? I am agnostic and believe all religions equally idiotic. You
remarks are in and of themselves derogatory with no help from me since they are
based on lies.
How many non-flds 14 year olds will get pregnant today? 2. How many non-flds kids will get an education allowing them to receive a 2 year degree given that over $7 million was spent on this mess?
The problem is that you don't "get" that you also self-isolate by not allowing your children "opportunities" to see the Projects because you hope your children do not aspire to be a drug dealer. The same applies to the FLDS, again, even if you don't like it. You assume certain views on education, but not based on fact, only stereotype.
I don't twist your words, you just say horrible words that before me, went unchecked. It is not a matter of "people thinking more or less of the FLDS" but your continued lying about them because you don't like them. To me it is not about the FLDS for I would support opposition to any action like this travesty, even if I find their beliefs bizarre as are all beliefs.
How many non-flds 14 year olds will get pregnant today? 2. How many non-flds kids will get an education allowing them to receive a 2 year degree given that over $7 million was spent on this mess?
The problem is that you don't "get" that you also self-isolate by not allowing your children "opportunities" to see the Projects because you hope your children do not aspire to be a drug dealer. The same applies to the FLDS, again, even if you don't like it. You assume certain views on education, but not based on fact, only stereotype.
I don't twist your words, you just say horrible words that before me, went unchecked. It is not a matter of "people thinking more or less of the FLDS" but your continued lying about them because you don't like them. To me it is not about the FLDS for I would support opposition to any action like this travesty, even if I find their beliefs bizarre as are all beliefs.
jt | 12:33 p.m. June 4, 2008
POLYGAMY IS AGAINST THE LAW....... LIVE BY THE LAW OF THE LAND..........THATS
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS..........FLDS ARE NOT DOING THAT.........FREEDOM OF RELIGION
IS ONE THING, BUT IN SOME ASPECTS, THE LAW OF THE LAND OVERRULES. MY HEART CRIES
FOR THESE POOR MISLEADED PEOPLE AND MY SPIRIT ACHES.
COSMO | 12:42 p.m. June 4, 2008
Re:betty 6:47; Why do you feel the need to fan the flames of hate. Was that
comment really called for?
Re:Realitycheck | 12:43 p.m. June 4, 2008
Stop with your Marxist ideologies. Story after story shows these women have jobs
and training that most women do not. We have yet to hear one mother, child, or
boy say... "I want to.... but Mother did not allow it." If you read
truthwillprevail and the story of Flora..I think they allow too much freedom for
children to mess up.. I personally would like to water flowers until I was 80
than submit to the feminists' agendy for my life.
JT | 12:57 p.m. June 4, 2008
i am proud to be a bible thumper and a jesus freak. i am not perfect but i live
by the bible, not manmade religion. i don't live in texas either. take
your stolen manuscripts and live by them. you will be left behind. i feel
sorry for you all.
transplant | 1:05 p.m. June 4, 2008
Feminists don't have an agenda for your life. Obviously someone women still
don't have their own agenda for their own life and look to others to do it
for them.
Here's an idea | 1:10 p.m. June 4, 2008
Everyone wants to know the truth about the FLDS, and the FLDS claim to want
everyone to know the truth about them also. So why can't the feds do what
they do for organized crime and drug rings--get someone undercover. They could
pay some would-be ex-FLDS to work undercover.
David | 1:12 p.m. June 4, 2008
The FLDS are NOT committing real polygamy since they are not legally marrying
but "shacking up" with all women having full knowledge unlike
commonplace adultery.
And JT, I will equally protect your beliefs even though you believe me damned to hell, and I find it just as bizarre as the FLDS. So which bible do you follow? The one in which Abraham is married to his half-sister, ties up his son while his son believes himself about to be murdered, and the bible that allows Lot to impregnate his daughters? No wonder I reject your bible. Hopefully you follow societal morals over those of your bible or CPS will come after your daughters.
And JT, I will equally protect your beliefs even though you believe me damned to hell, and I find it just as bizarre as the FLDS. So which bible do you follow? The one in which Abraham is married to his half-sister, ties up his son while his son believes himself about to be murdered, and the bible that allows Lot to impregnate his daughters? No wonder I reject your bible. Hopefully you follow societal morals over those of your bible or CPS will come after your daughters.
Bill | 2:15 p.m. June 4, 2008
Here's an idea...How about everyone take one day and walk in an FLDS
family's shoes before passing judgement.
COSMO | 2:30 p.m. June 4, 2008
Re:Here's an idea; That was done by the Sheriffs
office,supposedly for some years. In addition they were in contact with several ex-FLDS people.
Why do I get the impression, that many of the anti-
FLDS posters will not be happy until Texas just goes
in and performs a "Waco", style Toasting.
office,supposedly for some years. In addition they were in contact with several ex-FLDS people.
Why do I get the impression, that many of the anti-
FLDS posters will not be happy until Texas just goes
in and performs a "Waco", style Toasting.
realitycheck | 2:36 p.m. June 4, 2008
David - correct me if I am wrong...
the tools required to survive in the outside world are SEVERLY limited by the FLDS parents.
true? we all know it is. and that's wrong.
Now, you can go off on a debate about other children in other places, but we're not talking about them. We're talking about the FLDS kids. Their parents do not prompt them to go to college, get a career, see the world, or any of that. JUST MAKING THEM WEAR THOSE CLOTHES will severly limit their ability to survive outside the compound, because they will know of no other clothing and they will look bizarre to everyone. Makes it tough to get a job or interface with others.
it's cruel. you may not think so, but it circumvents the children's ability for any sort of future outside. 'Nuff said.
the tools required to survive in the outside world are SEVERLY limited by the FLDS parents.
true? we all know it is. and that's wrong.
Now, you can go off on a debate about other children in other places, but we're not talking about them. We're talking about the FLDS kids. Their parents do not prompt them to go to college, get a career, see the world, or any of that. JUST MAKING THEM WEAR THOSE CLOTHES will severly limit their ability to survive outside the compound, because they will know of no other clothing and they will look bizarre to everyone. Makes it tough to get a job or interface with others.
it's cruel. you may not think so, but it circumvents the children's ability for any sort of future outside. 'Nuff said.
re - here's an idea | 2:38 p.m. June 4, 2008
because once you leave, you are banned forever and you lose all rights to your
family, etc. Another example of the FLDS enforcing a lifestyle that makes it
close to impossible for the child to have a real life after the child grows up.
To Mimi | 2:48 p.m. June 4, 2008
Annie's mother was with her children at the shelter, but after they were
moved to foster care, all children over 12 months were removed from their
children. If you had a child under 12 AND you were breastfeeding you could stay.
If you weren't breastfeeding, you were not allowed to stay. Yes there were
young children as young as 3 months separated from their mothers.
Hum? | 4:17 p.m. June 4, 2008
RE: realitycheck
I can feel your hatred through your text. Let us apply the same login to other groups: Gothic, Punk, Jewish, Amish, short, tall, etc... The alternative is to make everyone blond, blue eyed, and Nazi. Are we so stuck in our ways that we demand everyone conform to our dress-standards?
Legally a man could wear a skirt to work and the company can not fire him (as long as the skirt conforms to company standards). Live and let live.
If there are cases of abuse, use legal - constitutional - means to investigate. What Texas did was way out of bounds.
Side note: My great � great grandfather was assassinated because others� disagreed with his views. I guess that is ok if you are on the butt-end of the gun.
They have schools and structure and it is probably safer there than in most cities.
I can feel your hatred through your text. Let us apply the same login to other groups: Gothic, Punk, Jewish, Amish, short, tall, etc... The alternative is to make everyone blond, blue eyed, and Nazi. Are we so stuck in our ways that we demand everyone conform to our dress-standards?
Legally a man could wear a skirt to work and the company can not fire him (as long as the skirt conforms to company standards). Live and let live.
If there are cases of abuse, use legal - constitutional - means to investigate. What Texas did was way out of bounds.
Side note: My great � great grandfather was assassinated because others� disagreed with his views. I guess that is ok if you are on the butt-end of the gun.
They have schools and structure and it is probably safer there than in most cities.
realitycheck | 4:45 p.m. June 4, 2008
you are quite off-base. I certainly DO NOT hate the FLDS. As a matter of fact,
I pity the children because they will never know a future other than that chosen
for them by the FLDS hiearchy.
Why do people keep comparing the FLDS to other groups? This has nothing to do with gothic, punk, or anything else. BUT, at least they know of other lifestyles. They CHOOSE to be the way they are. The FLDS do not choose - they are born into it and IT IS ALL THEY WILL EVER KNOW.
I agree with "live and let live". The problem with the FLDS is that they don't feel the same. Their motto is "live as us or banish in hell."
And I don't care that they wear prairie clothes - matters not to me - but I'm much more liberal than most Americans, and the dresses will definately make it harder to excel in the world. Just like your example of a goth - wearing a colored mohawk or having multiple face peircings makes it harder to get some jobs. I am pleased that society has stopped stereotyping tattoos (because I have many.)
It's all about freedom.
Why do people keep comparing the FLDS to other groups? This has nothing to do with gothic, punk, or anything else. BUT, at least they know of other lifestyles. They CHOOSE to be the way they are. The FLDS do not choose - they are born into it and IT IS ALL THEY WILL EVER KNOW.
I agree with "live and let live". The problem with the FLDS is that they don't feel the same. Their motto is "live as us or banish in hell."
And I don't care that they wear prairie clothes - matters not to me - but I'm much more liberal than most Americans, and the dresses will definately make it harder to excel in the world. Just like your example of a goth - wearing a colored mohawk or having multiple face peircings makes it harder to get some jobs. I am pleased that society has stopped stereotyping tattoos (because I have many.)
It's all about freedom.
realitycheck | 4:48 p.m. June 4, 2008
to hum? 4:17pm
your great great grandfather was assassinated? Sorry to hear that - not my fault. My great great grandfather signed the declaration of independance so you can rest assured I believe in freedom.
That's all I want for the FLDS children. Freedom. They don't have it, and they should.
your great great grandfather was assassinated? Sorry to hear that - not my fault. My great great grandfather signed the declaration of independance so you can rest assured I believe in freedom.
That's all I want for the FLDS children. Freedom. They don't have it, and they should.
Anonymous | 4:59 p.m. June 4, 2008
Why should the family have to bare the expense of going to pick up the children.
Seems to me Texas owes the familys and kids at least a bus ride back their home
area. THe State was fast to split them up, but why only the one way ride? This
also happened to my wife and I years ago. We were subjected to the spliting of
our family based on untrue rumors. After the lawer go involved, the State back
tracked. NO charges were every deserved or filed, but I had to drive have way
across the late great state of montana to get my kids. No money for the state of
montana to ship my kids home. We left the late state of monatana with the judges
permession since no chareges were ever pending. I will NEVER sit foot in that
state again.
Is Texas also so broke it could not send the kids back?
Is Texas also so broke it could not send the kids back?
boston123 | 5:31 p.m. June 4, 2008
I think people shouldn't through around words like "sect" and
"cult" because one day these words might be used against you. I come
from Russia, where only 3 religions are legal and sanctioned by the government -
Chrisitian Orthodox, Jewish and Muslim. Everything else, including Catholicism
and Baptists (especially!) is called "sect". Govt is spreading rumors
that all Baptists have some "pervasive" beliefs and practices. I am
telling you - govt. walks over people in any country!
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