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Most caregivers enjoyed the FLDS children
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G | 5:14 p.m. June 4, 2008
"Most parents want their children to grow up and be successful, making
their mark in the world. The FLDS parents don't want their children to ever
go out in the world. That's the difference (as I see it.)"
There is no universal definition of "successful" either.
In many families "successful" is a $250,000/year salary.
But there are some families where "successful" is more about spirituality and the quality of life at home and having lots of kids. The FLDS think that's what their kids will have if they live they like they do. The Amish and other groups think the same way.
There is no universal definition of "successful" either.
In many families "successful" is a $250,000/year salary.
But there are some families where "successful" is more about spirituality and the quality of life at home and having lots of kids. The FLDS think that's what their kids will have if they live they like they do. The Amish and other groups think the same way.
realitycheck | 5:44 p.m. June 4, 2008
that doesn't mean they need to make it so dificult to do something else.
my posts are old - some get it and some don't.
Those that don't must have miserable lives and want the same for thier children. (Not unlike the FLDS mother that say "I had to do it so you will too.")
Its about freedom of choice, people. If you don't get that, then I can't explain it any further.
my posts are old - some get it and some don't.
Those that don't must have miserable lives and want the same for thier children. (Not unlike the FLDS mother that say "I had to do it so you will too.")
Its about freedom of choice, people. If you don't get that, then I can't explain it any further.
Comments continue below
flds girl who grew up in slc | 6:44 p.m. June 4, 2008
We know a lot more than flora or carolyn probably ever did. They probably
dropped out of school at a young age and gave their teachers trouble enough they
didn't want them back. Hey, I might not be brilliant but I am kind of a
smarty-pants.
Gee aren't we smart | 7:05 p.m. June 4, 2008
I live in this dumb state of Texas. CPS doesn't protect the children, trust
me. I am also a teacher. I'd rather have an FLDS child in my class with a
basic education than most of my students who either can't speak English or
own more electronic garbage than some small countries. These 'toys'
have destroyed their lives. The FLDS kids have now been poisoned by this, and
traumatized. Why can't you who are so stuck on polygamy think about the
long-term ramifications? Would you rather have a young lady in a dress, or YOUR
little girl in a 'hotties' short set (about all you can get at stores
these days) at the mall with sex offenders? Sheesh. I'd think it would be
clear but then of course, I have a brain.
Anonymous | 7:30 p.m. June 4, 2008
"'I hope they now know not everyone on the outside is their
enemies,' said Jackie Carter, executive director of the High Sky
Children's Ranch here that was home to 15 teenage girls."
Ummm, yeah right, Jackie. I'm pretty sure that the lesson these children will take away from being ripped away from their parents and homes by outsiders is that "not everyone on the outside is their enemies."
Ummm, yeah right, Jackie. I'm pretty sure that the lesson these children will take away from being ripped away from their parents and homes by outsiders is that "not everyone on the outside is their enemies."
anonymous | 8:03 p.m. June 4, 2008
It's Truly Amazing How People Judge Others After The Desires Of Their Own
Hearts.
Anonymous | 8:10 p.m. June 4, 2008
I don't agree that they make it extremely difficult to leave, apparently
they don't even own a gun. What's so difficult to walk out the door
if you want to?
gretchen | 8:40 p.m. June 4, 2008
looks like no one on this particular blog has read any of the numerous accounts
by ex-flds of the serious repression many members endure..
K | 8:45 p.m. June 4, 2008
Of course they are worried that the DNA results will be used in a criminal
investigation. If they are innocent, they have nothing to worry about.
OC-CA | 9:55 p.m. June 4, 2008
As per Warren Jeff's order these people are forbiden to have/ wear/ see
anything of RED color, as that is the color of Evil..
Is that protection,ignorance or Abuse?
What will they do they do if a red rose grows at their garden? will they think that Evil is visiting them?
Besides with Warren out in prison, they still follow his directions and admire him... do the kids know where he is and why?
Is that protection,ignorance or Abuse?
What will they do they do if a red rose grows at their garden? will they think that Evil is visiting them?
Besides with Warren out in prison, they still follow his directions and admire him... do the kids know where he is and why?
To Gee aren't we smart | 11:01 p.m. June 4, 2008
NOT. If teachers spent more time teaching our kids than grumbling about how
little they get paid, maybe the kids would have better lanquage skills.
Social workers have more concern for kids than any teacher that I have ever met.
I cannot understand how so many people continue to call this religous persicution. Please tell me where in the Bible, Book of Mormon, Koran or any other religous book that it is normal, acceptable or required for male adults to have sex with a minor female, show me the evidence that shows that this is all about religous persicution & not about child rape.
Reality Check, You are one of the few people that post here that has a clue what is happening to the young girls. Pretty sad that so few people can see or care about this. What is our world coming to.
PS: Im sure that my grammer & spelling is not the best but after all, I attended pulic school where the teachers spent more time grumbling about how underpaid they were than teaching us. But I guess having poor grammer is better than being raped as a child. Apparetly people these days don't care.
Social workers have more concern for kids than any teacher that I have ever met.
I cannot understand how so many people continue to call this religous persicution. Please tell me where in the Bible, Book of Mormon, Koran or any other religous book that it is normal, acceptable or required for male adults to have sex with a minor female, show me the evidence that shows that this is all about religous persicution & not about child rape.
Reality Check, You are one of the few people that post here that has a clue what is happening to the young girls. Pretty sad that so few people can see or care about this. What is our world coming to.
PS: Im sure that my grammer & spelling is not the best but after all, I attended pulic school where the teachers spent more time grumbling about how underpaid they were than teaching us. But I guess having poor grammer is better than being raped as a child. Apparetly people these days don't care.
Brorther M | 11:23 p.m. June 4, 2008
It seems to me FLDS have every right to raise their children as they see fit,
guranteed by the constitution. My sister has been in a contemplative Order of
Catholic Nuns since she has been 14 yrs. old.....and she , to this day, has not
ever left those high walls built around the monastery, not even once to go to
our parents funeral. Should we send the government to close these convent
monasteries down. After all she was only a child of 14 when she entered....When
I do visit my sister, I see her through a grill, cannot even hug her, but she is
not in a prison, she used her free will (free agency) and I respect her and the
Monastery. For years my family said she was a prisoner, this ruined her life
and opportunities in the future, blah blah blah....guess what? she is the most
self actualized, contented person I have ever met in my life? she too lives a
communal (not communist) life style and radiates Christ, just like these FLDS
women and children I have seen, also....We must pray and respect these FLDS, and
not listen to every mal content that have left them.
Alex | 11:47 p.m. June 4, 2008
Contrast these teenage girls who are domestically capable with so many in this
country who can't do squat. I'm confident that you'll get more
brainwashing in the Women's Studies Program at Harvard than you ever will
in these FLDS communities. They have more going for them than these ugly
liberated Harvard Women's Studies graduates who are too superior for
children. They are probably happier too. Sure, I hope that they get a good
education. Naturally, I pray that they will not be abused and that if any are,
that the perpetrators be brought to justice. But then again, I could pray for
that for a lot of people.
BZBGRAN | 12:20 a.m. June 5, 2008
The Children should have never been taken from their homes and parents. Do you
all really want government, doctors, etc. telling us how to raise our children?
What is abuse and what isn't--I'm amazed that the Amish communities
haven't been attacked also/ they make those poor children "work"
without all the modern equipment / they only receive 8th grade educations, and
are encouraged to marry within the community of Amish citizens. And the pray
and obey their elders--oh my! Abuse if ever I saw it!! Tell me the difference?
It can only happen to them... | 4:47 a.m. June 5, 2008
So many intelligent comments posted on this story, I am proud of many of the
people who post here and hope it is at least a small step to enlightening the
general public.
Being an educator by profession I have seen the Utah version of CPS workers come and make presentations to first graders in a local public school district.
The friendly young woman does a wonderful job of gaining the children's trust and teaches them what can fit the profiles of a physical or emotional abuser. Effective use is made of charts and pictures and cartoon characters are shown of nice happy faces and the potential abusers, which are depicted as cruel and angry. The children are asked which cartoon characters will not abuse them and they pick the happy faces. The children are asked which cartoon adults might be abusive and they are guided to choose the stern and angry faces. The children are asked what kind of tone of voice a person might use who does not abuse children and they say a happy voice; then they are asked who would might be an abuser of children, and they say it is those with an angry voice...
Being an educator by profession I have seen the Utah version of CPS workers come and make presentations to first graders in a local public school district.
The friendly young woman does a wonderful job of gaining the children's trust and teaches them what can fit the profiles of a physical or emotional abuser. Effective use is made of charts and pictures and cartoon characters are shown of nice happy faces and the potential abusers, which are depicted as cruel and angry. The children are asked which cartoon characters will not abuse them and they pick the happy faces. The children are asked which cartoon adults might be abusive and they are guided to choose the stern and angry faces. The children are asked what kind of tone of voice a person might use who does not abuse children and they say a happy voice; then they are asked who would might be an abuser of children, and they say it is those with an angry voice...
Soloman | 5:44 a.m. June 5, 2008
Let's get one thing straight, this entire situation was a damned if they
do, damned if they don't. Obviously taking very little children away from
their mothers was questionable. There was no immediate threat to the very little
ones. On the other hand, the teenage girls were at risk and STILL ARE.
This was a case for Soloman. But I doubt the mothers would have given up the children to the "other women." They would rather see the kid cut in two rather than be destroyed by the big bad outside world.
I don't envy any party in this case....a case that goes on.
This was a case for Soloman. But I doubt the mothers would have given up the children to the "other women." They would rather see the kid cut in two rather than be destroyed by the big bad outside world.
I don't envy any party in this case....a case that goes on.
FLDS_Guy | 5:53 a.m. June 5, 2008
"As per Warren Jeff's order these people are forbiden to have/ wear/
see anything of RED color, as that is the color of Evil.."
When, oh, WHEN will people stop spreading false information? We just avoid bright red clothing -- that's it. And it's certainly NOT the color of evil, but a sacred color. I would ask where people get such information from, but I already have a very good idea.
Alex,
I couldn't have said it better myself. We are doing everything we can to provide a good education for our children in a clean, safe environment. There has been some little mention in the news about how most of the children they tested were at or above grade level. I just wonder, how many "out there" can say the same?
Why do people keep ranting on about how all our girls are set to be married off at age 14 or younger to some old geezer? It's not true. They are now down to ONE girl who "might" have been abused. I can't wait until that one's also proven false (though that does seem backwards to have to prove it false rather than true.)
When, oh, WHEN will people stop spreading false information? We just avoid bright red clothing -- that's it. And it's certainly NOT the color of evil, but a sacred color. I would ask where people get such information from, but I already have a very good idea.
Alex,
I couldn't have said it better myself. We are doing everything we can to provide a good education for our children in a clean, safe environment. There has been some little mention in the news about how most of the children they tested were at or above grade level. I just wonder, how many "out there" can say the same?
Why do people keep ranting on about how all our girls are set to be married off at age 14 or younger to some old geezer? It's not true. They are now down to ONE girl who "might" have been abused. I can't wait until that one's also proven false (though that does seem backwards to have to prove it false rather than true.)
VA gal | 6:09 a.m. June 5, 2008
I would have to agree with Alex. I think in this culture women are pushed to
see children as a burden not a blessing. Often women who pursue careers first
before having kids end up 37 years old in a fertility clinic unable to have
children with their hearts broken.
Many women have told me that what has brought them the most joy in this life was their families. Serving them, taking care of the little ones. Even doing the seeming the insignificant work of cleaning the home. If these families want to teach their young ladies how to be good mothers, good wives, and domestic skills I fail to see how that is abuse. The mothers are simply showing the daughters what has brought them the most joy in their lives.
Many women have told me that what has brought them the most joy in this life was their families. Serving them, taking care of the little ones. Even doing the seeming the insignificant work of cleaning the home. If these families want to teach their young ladies how to be good mothers, good wives, and domestic skills I fail to see how that is abuse. The mothers are simply showing the daughters what has brought them the most joy in their lives.
David | 6:37 a.m. June 5, 2008
FLDS_Guy,
The "red" issue came about because of Carolyn Jessop's book, ESCAPE. Ironically, it was that which caused me to completely question her words and the action of TX authorities. She states that Warren gave the doctrine that only Jesus should wear the royal color red. The response was that one woman went out and pulled her red rose bush, replacing it with a pink one. Other women immediately got rid of the red dresses while others still continued to wear their red dresses until they wore out. It seems only I noticed that this is proof of individuality over group-think which was claimed.
Those that post that all little girls will be forced to marry old man, are delusional gossips, especially considering there is no proof of any and one that might possible be victim. These are the same people that ignore that in TX a 14 year old gets pregnant every 10 hours. They bizarrely feel that perpetuating this false beliefs elevates their own status. It does, but that seems to be the desired outcome.
The "red" issue came about because of Carolyn Jessop's book, ESCAPE. Ironically, it was that which caused me to completely question her words and the action of TX authorities. She states that Warren gave the doctrine that only Jesus should wear the royal color red. The response was that one woman went out and pulled her red rose bush, replacing it with a pink one. Other women immediately got rid of the red dresses while others still continued to wear their red dresses until they wore out. It seems only I noticed that this is proof of individuality over group-think which was claimed.
Those that post that all little girls will be forced to marry old man, are delusional gossips, especially considering there is no proof of any and one that might possible be victim. These are the same people that ignore that in TX a 14 year old gets pregnant every 10 hours. They bizarrely feel that perpetuating this false beliefs elevates their own status. It does, but that seems to be the desired outcome.
Teacher and Dad | 6:48 a.m. June 5, 2008
If someone tries to come and take my kids because they they don't like the
type of toys I give my children, they are in for real battle.
In the know-unlike reality check | 6:52 a.m. June 5, 2008
Reality check is wrong in SO many ways.
1. Have you EVER met Willie Jessop? I have. He is the W in R and W Excavating.(R is for Royce Jessop). Their company owns over FORTY gigantic Trac hoes, back hoes etc. Their company does work and is well respected all over the southwest, az, ca, ut, tx etc. Most of their operators, if not all are young men that were taught the skill by dads, uncles etc.Is this not a valuable skill, unlike many that go the "college" route for 5-10 years and decide they didn't obtain a useful degree?
2. I've seen many of the women and girls shopping and eating in my city of St. George. They didn't run or yell to the police for help.
3. I've seen FLDS couples in the movie theaters, so they aren't locked up.
4. I'm LDS and not of the FLDS.
5. I was even asked to visit and speak in their church years ago, and I'm an "outside influence" so they do have some outsiders.
Most of you don't have a clue as to the FLDS, I do. Acouple other things later.
1. Have you EVER met Willie Jessop? I have. He is the W in R and W Excavating.(R is for Royce Jessop). Their company owns over FORTY gigantic Trac hoes, back hoes etc. Their company does work and is well respected all over the southwest, az, ca, ut, tx etc. Most of their operators, if not all are young men that were taught the skill by dads, uncles etc.Is this not a valuable skill, unlike many that go the "college" route for 5-10 years and decide they didn't obtain a useful degree?
2. I've seen many of the women and girls shopping and eating in my city of St. George. They didn't run or yell to the police for help.
3. I've seen FLDS couples in the movie theaters, so they aren't locked up.
4. I'm LDS and not of the FLDS.
5. I was even asked to visit and speak in their church years ago, and I'm an "outside influence" so they do have some outsiders.
Most of you don't have a clue as to the FLDS, I do. Acouple other things later.
Teacher and Dad | 7:07 a.m. June 5, 2008
Another Utah paper has this headline for a story;
"Utah schools lead nation in junk food availability"
I have a great respect for any parents who love their kids enough to take the time and energy needed to provide only healthy food to to them, and greatly limit the intake of food (junk food) which is known to cause obesity and to interfere with optimal physical and mental development.
The FLDS do make the effort to provide healthy food. I'm of a different faith and I do the same for my kids. Just that one fact alone, when I learned of it from the media about the FLDS, indicated to me that the leaks to the media (broken bones, cyanide poisoning, no playing by children, etc) from the CPS, suggesting "child abuse," were likely to be totally bogus, and in the large extent, we are discovering that my suspicions were correct. The FLDS are truly "good parents," whether or not one chooses to believe in or follow their religious philosophy.
"Utah schools lead nation in junk food availability"
I have a great respect for any parents who love their kids enough to take the time and energy needed to provide only healthy food to to them, and greatly limit the intake of food (junk food) which is known to cause obesity and to interfere with optimal physical and mental development.
The FLDS do make the effort to provide healthy food. I'm of a different faith and I do the same for my kids. Just that one fact alone, when I learned of it from the media about the FLDS, indicated to me that the leaks to the media (broken bones, cyanide poisoning, no playing by children, etc) from the CPS, suggesting "child abuse," were likely to be totally bogus, and in the large extent, we are discovering that my suspicions were correct. The FLDS are truly "good parents," whether or not one chooses to believe in or follow their religious philosophy.
Ed Whalen | 7:12 a.m. June 5, 2008
If I'd have care of one of these kids for a while I would have made a
dogged effort to show that the world beyond the yfz prison gate is not
inherently evil, and as often as possible instilled in them that they are
individuals who can be whatever they want. Including but not limited to NOT
flds. Here's hoping at least some of them escape in the future. Mind you,
now that they are talking concession to some of the prison practices, I imagine
they're looking at the map for greater isolation somewhere else.
Peter | 7:56 a.m. June 5, 2008
"If I'd have care of one of these kids for a while I would have made a
dogged effort to show that the world beyond the yfz prison gate is not
inherently evil"
Too late, "Evil" is when men with machine guns from "the world beyond," come and take you away from your family. The kids now know what evil is.
Too late, "Evil" is when men with machine guns from "the world beyond," come and take you away from your family. The kids now know what evil is.
Freedom Mann | 8:22 a.m. June 5, 2008
Gee, the FLDS children showed self-discipline, self-reliance a firm sense of
responsibility, both for themselves and also towards the younger children and
many, many skills that the majority of children in the USA don't have
unless you wish to count pushing buttons on video games.
Gee, that's NOT the way abused children generally behave in such settings.
And stop with the FLDS being uneducated; we've seen nurses, agricultural experts, girls who can make their own clothes and expertise in construction, engineering and even "horrors" PUBLIC RELATIONS.
Not so bad for an "isolated" community, ay?
Gee, that's NOT the way abused children generally behave in such settings.
And stop with the FLDS being uneducated; we've seen nurses, agricultural experts, girls who can make their own clothes and expertise in construction, engineering and even "horrors" PUBLIC RELATIONS.
Not so bad for an "isolated" community, ay?
G | 8:29 a.m. June 5, 2008
"
Its about freedom of choice, people. If you don't get that, then I can't explain it any further."
"Freedom of choice" is what you get when you turn 21. It doesn't apply to minors.
Its about freedom of choice, people. If you don't get that, then I can't explain it any further."
"Freedom of choice" is what you get when you turn 21. It doesn't apply to minors.
Jewish Brother | 9:26 a.m. June 5, 2008
To Ed Whalen: And evil is when bigots like you spout your venom against a people
you know little or nothing about. I pray they stay right in Texas, I sure would
not leave my Temple and all I worked for, let the locals move LOL, I am serious,
let them move. And By the way "Eddie"; who died and made you God,
dictating what others in another religion should or should not do. And who the
h--- asked you for your "opinion"? I am a Jew and these folk were
singled out from the beginning...The El Dorado Success, the local papaer would
print stories about a crematorium in the temple, and this religious persecution
is so reminiscent of the NAZI'S...WAKE UP AMERICA, IF YOU DO NOT DEFEND THE
FLDS, YOU WILL BE FIGHTING FOR YOUR CHILDREN NEXT. It is people like you that
made them insular...they didn't live this way in utah and colorado...that
wall is for their protection, just like walls were built around NUNs Monasteries
FOR CENTURIES TO PROTECT THEM...Do you work for CPS Ed? Or Law enforcement? You
don't stand a chance, the Lord God is on the side of the FLDS...pathetic
man Ed..LOL
David | 9:33 a.m. June 5, 2008
Oh bother, RC is again spouting bigoted lies about the FLDS. Why did CPS return
to the ranch for a second attempt at a raid? Because not all children were at
the ranch at the time of the first raid. So, RC's outlandish fantasy that
FLDS children do not see the outside world is nullified.
RC claims that the FLDS teach about the principal of hell to those that don't follow certain principles. But, he fails to mention that his own belief damns me, an agnostic to hell in a handbasket...don't you RC?
He then spouts about FLDS parents not wanting their children to "go out into the world" again despite the fact that FLDS children are already exposed to the world based on not only the second attempt at a raid by CPS to get at children not on the ranch at the time, but evidenced by St. George visits which are seemingly quite often.
RC doesn't need facts because he gladly makes up his own.
RC claims that the FLDS teach about the principal of hell to those that don't follow certain principles. But, he fails to mention that his own belief damns me, an agnostic to hell in a handbasket...don't you RC?
He then spouts about FLDS parents not wanting their children to "go out into the world" again despite the fact that FLDS children are already exposed to the world based on not only the second attempt at a raid by CPS to get at children not on the ranch at the time, but evidenced by St. George visits which are seemingly quite often.
RC doesn't need facts because he gladly makes up his own.
ediddy | 9:48 a.m. June 5, 2008
@realitycheck: One thing is sharply obvious. You either ex-FLDS or are an
apologist for the Carolyn Jessops of the world. Your axe is constantly grinding
and no amount of evidence to the contrary will ever change your mind. The rest
of us are willing to use our own intellect and observation to sift through
information that differs markedly from your rantings. If we threw out the high
and low score in this contest, you would be history, over the top in bias.
Teacher and Dad | 10:37 a.m. June 5, 2008
"Freedom of choice" is what you get when you turn 21. It doesn't
apply to minors."
And it doesn't apply when the CPS comes after you, whether you are are 13 or 29.
And it doesn't apply when the CPS comes after you, whether you are are 13 or 29.
So. California | 11:49 a.m. June 5, 2008
Amber -- you were spot-on correct. I totally agree. Those who made comments
about mothers being shackled apparently didn't read your comment correctly.
They totally didn't "get" what you were saying.
G | 11:53 a.m. June 5, 2008
"
And it doesn't apply when the CPS comes after you, whether you are are 13 or 29."
I think CPS is going to be regretting their raid pretty soon. For one, I'm looking forward to some state employee going to prison for the kid in the stroller they left alone for 18 hours.
And it doesn't apply when the CPS comes after you, whether you are are 13 or 29."
I think CPS is going to be regretting their raid pretty soon. For one, I'm looking forward to some state employee going to prison for the kid in the stroller they left alone for 18 hours.
Alex | 12:18 p.m. June 5, 2008
FLDS Guy:
"We are doing everything we can to provide a good education for our children in a clean, safe environment. There has been some little mention in the news about how most of the children they tested were at or above grade level. I just wonder, how many "out there" can say the same? "
Good for you. I can't say that I've ever made the personal acquaintance of anyone from your community (although I've passed through Colorado City and Hillsdale a couple of times), but I am willing to give you the fair treatment that my forefathers never got when they practiced polygamy. Just keep it clean and take care of your wives and children and you will never have any beef from me.
"We are doing everything we can to provide a good education for our children in a clean, safe environment. There has been some little mention in the news about how most of the children they tested were at or above grade level. I just wonder, how many "out there" can say the same? "
Good for you. I can't say that I've ever made the personal acquaintance of anyone from your community (although I've passed through Colorado City and Hillsdale a couple of times), but I am willing to give you the fair treatment that my forefathers never got when they practiced polygamy. Just keep it clean and take care of your wives and children and you will never have any beef from me.
realitycheck | 4:31 p.m. June 5, 2008
wow - guess I hit a nerve on ediddy and in-the-know.
You may not like what I am saying, but at least I'm not making accusations I can't back up. Mine are self-evident.
You raise your children in isolation. You "protect" them from the world. The (unfortunate) result of that is they are not prepared to go out in the world and will most likely stay within your ranks. I say unfortunate, you say fortunate. And that is because if the children knew the REAL world, they would want to partake in it, not hide from it, and that would reduce your ranks, which is the last thing you want. I understand why you do it. But it's unfair to the child.
You think it's fair, and good. I think you are robbing the child of a future of his/her own choosing.
Ask yourself this: If you raised your child out in the world, as most of us do, and then told the child (at 18 or so) that they now have the choice to move to YFZ and live there, or they can go out into the world - their choice - which would they choose? Self-evident.
You may not like what I am saying, but at least I'm not making accusations I can't back up. Mine are self-evident.
You raise your children in isolation. You "protect" them from the world. The (unfortunate) result of that is they are not prepared to go out in the world and will most likely stay within your ranks. I say unfortunate, you say fortunate. And that is because if the children knew the REAL world, they would want to partake in it, not hide from it, and that would reduce your ranks, which is the last thing you want. I understand why you do it. But it's unfair to the child.
You think it's fair, and good. I think you are robbing the child of a future of his/her own choosing.
Ask yourself this: If you raised your child out in the world, as most of us do, and then told the child (at 18 or so) that they now have the choice to move to YFZ and live there, or they can go out into the world - their choice - which would they choose? Self-evident.
Relieved | 6:47 p.m. June 5, 2008
I am very happy for the children to be reunited with their families again. The
trama from this experience is going to haunt them for the rest of their lives.
I believe in freedom of religion & the rights of parents to raise their own children. That is what makes America great. I raised my children to believe in God, attend church, not to watch TV or waste time playing video games, to get an education & do something positive in the world. And now they are raising their children the same way.
I have seen pictures of these FLDS children, they are well fed from gardens of home grown foods, clean, dressed in clothes made by their moms. The children learned to help in the garden, and do chores. The children are home schooled Sounds like how my mom, grandmother & great grandparents raised all their children.
I also believe that laws of the land must be obeyed and that if such laws where broken then those specific cases be handled individually. Not as a neighborhood.
I am pleased that our courts have ruled in favor of the families being reunited.
I believe in freedom of religion & the rights of parents to raise their own children. That is what makes America great. I raised my children to believe in God, attend church, not to watch TV or waste time playing video games, to get an education & do something positive in the world. And now they are raising their children the same way.
I have seen pictures of these FLDS children, they are well fed from gardens of home grown foods, clean, dressed in clothes made by their moms. The children learned to help in the garden, and do chores. The children are home schooled Sounds like how my mom, grandmother & great grandparents raised all their children.
I also believe that laws of the land must be obeyed and that if such laws where broken then those specific cases be handled individually. Not as a neighborhood.
I am pleased that our courts have ruled in favor of the families being reunited.
Kane County Guy | 9:59 p.m. June 5, 2008
One good thing that will come from all of this is that the welfare system will
no longer have to support many of the FLDS once the lawsuits against the State
of Texas have been settled. The courts need to send a message stronger than
just a slap on the hand that this kind of arbitrary action is no acceptable. If
there is abuse, nail the abuser. If there is welfare fraud, go after the
criminal. However, be very, very careful with families, even if they believe in
a different value system.
wrz | 10:00 p.m. June 5, 2008
***looks like no one on this particular blog has read any of the numerous
accounts by ex-flds of the serious repression many members endure..***
You'll find the disgruntled in any society. If they leave they are called "run-aways."
You'll find the disgruntled in any society. If they leave they are called "run-aways."
Anon | 10:00 p.m. June 5, 2008
Anyone read "Under The Banner of Heaven"...?
zxcvbnm | 6:01 a.m. June 6, 2008
RE WRZ
For all practical purposes a large portion of the exFLDS books have been printed to various degrees on several web sites and have been discussed on numerous talk show formats since the raid.
The accusations seem over dramatized and exagerated by the authors and when investigated show little supporting fact to substantiate the claims.
I can see where the average person would be alarmed by the stories told by the authors but the books belong on the fiction shelf next to the CPS version of the raid.
Water boarding, escape, and slavery sell well, as do pregnant teens, unclaimed children, and arsenal of weapons. The reality of the situation looks more like perhaps a couple people may have taken advantage of a few people at best.
Sensational accusations by disgruntled exmembers led to sensational overreaction by lawmakers followed by sensational over compensation by state agencies.
As far as buying the books.....I'll wait for the movie, then not watch it.
For all practical purposes a large portion of the exFLDS books have been printed to various degrees on several web sites and have been discussed on numerous talk show formats since the raid.
The accusations seem over dramatized and exagerated by the authors and when investigated show little supporting fact to substantiate the claims.
I can see where the average person would be alarmed by the stories told by the authors but the books belong on the fiction shelf next to the CPS version of the raid.
Water boarding, escape, and slavery sell well, as do pregnant teens, unclaimed children, and arsenal of weapons. The reality of the situation looks more like perhaps a couple people may have taken advantage of a few people at best.
Sensational accusations by disgruntled exmembers led to sensational overreaction by lawmakers followed by sensational over compensation by state agencies.
As far as buying the books.....I'll wait for the movie, then not watch it.
David | 7:55 a.m. June 6, 2008
zxcvbnm, I could not agree with you more. I stopped believing any of the Jessop
girls when CPS and the D.A. didn't use them as "experts" in the
case. If they don't find them as good witnesses, then why should I.
David | 8:06 a.m. June 6, 2008
I read "Under the Banner of Heaven" as well as a great number of other
books regarding the topic of Polygamy. It doesn't apply to the FLDS since
they are completely separate group. The FLDS don't have a history of
stealing cars and chop shopping them for funds or threatening murder if you
"don't pay up." They also do not murder in-laws and babies
because of disagreement regarding the "Principal."
RC, apply your same principal in reverse. If you raise your child in the FLDS and then expose them to the outside world then give them a choice they too would pick that which is familiar. The "nerve you hit", as I have stated repeatedly, is your purposeful lying. There is no need to lie and degrade a group so that you can feel better about your own life decisions.
RC, apply your same principal in reverse. If you raise your child in the FLDS and then expose them to the outside world then give them a choice they too would pick that which is familiar. The "nerve you hit", as I have stated repeatedly, is your purposeful lying. There is no need to lie and degrade a group so that you can feel better about your own life decisions.
Marie Devine | 8:27 a.m. June 6, 2008
The children have a firm foundation of the love of God and trust in Him. Life
gives us circumstances to be overcome and I am sure they will remember this time
fondly as they forgive the judge and any wrong done by their leaders.
I enjoyed the testimony that the girls made matching dresses and sang for the caretakers. It must have been quite an education to see useful children, kind and thoughtful, and girls willing to dress alike. I do not expect that they had a victim mentality.
Let us not be too quick to instill an angry victim mentality upon people. Forgive and trust what God can do even if you go through horrific circumstances. It is part of the learning process and our opportunity to choose God's abundant life of love and forgiveness.
I enjoyed the testimony that the girls made matching dresses and sang for the caretakers. It must have been quite an education to see useful children, kind and thoughtful, and girls willing to dress alike. I do not expect that they had a victim mentality.
Let us not be too quick to instill an angry victim mentality upon people. Forgive and trust what God can do even if you go through horrific circumstances. It is part of the learning process and our opportunity to choose God's abundant life of love and forgiveness.
Richard - No Lawsuits | 8:32 a.m. June 6, 2008
There will be no lawsuits. The State of Texas has written their laws in such a
way as to protect themselves from anyone coming back to them in this regard (the
removal of the children).
Sure, some of the "adults held against their will as minors" might be able to pursue a case, but in most cases these are adult women with children and they would be afraid, should they seeked regress, the State would "punish" them and remove their children.
As long as the State has the given the order and CPS has the power to step in a remove a child without any further cause, no person (with a child) would dare to sue the State for anything.
Sure, some of the "adults held against their will as minors" might be able to pursue a case, but in most cases these are adult women with children and they would be afraid, should they seeked regress, the State would "punish" them and remove their children.
As long as the State has the given the order and CPS has the power to step in a remove a child without any further cause, no person (with a child) would dare to sue the State for anything.
Read This Book | 8:42 a.m. June 6, 2008
Everyone posting here should go to their local bookstore today and buy a copy of
James Clavell's "The Children's Story" and read it.
It's a twenty minute read that will change your life, and your view of
adults who try to manipulate children (whether FLDS or CPS, take your pick),
just get it and read it, now.
re: Richard | 10:17 a.m. June 6, 2008
Texas law does not protect the State of Texas from civil rights lawsuits in
federal court. Every family has a good case.
The court orders can only last for so long under Texas law, and the longer they're in effect the more evidence for malicious prosecution. Once their travel is no longer restricted, the fearful will file their suits while residing in other states.
Others will file in Texas with the threat of retaliation hanging over their heads.
The court orders can only last for so long under Texas law, and the longer they're in effect the more evidence for malicious prosecution. Once their travel is no longer restricted, the fearful will file their suits while residing in other states.
Others will file in Texas with the threat of retaliation hanging over their heads.
realitycheck | 3:15 p.m. June 6, 2008
ok, David - purposeful lying? LOL where did I lie? State ONE fact that I lied
about...
you can't. My statements are self-evident. I haven't mentioned any of the accusations being thrown around. I discussed facts that FLDS ARE PROUD OF and that I find deplorable. Guess it's a good thing it's a free country and we can each have our opinion.
You've said I lied in several of your posts. Fact is - you just don't like what I have to say. Must have hit a nerve. Feeling guilty about robbing your children of their future?
you can't. My statements are self-evident. I haven't mentioned any of the accusations being thrown around. I discussed facts that FLDS ARE PROUD OF and that I find deplorable. Guess it's a good thing it's a free country and we can each have our opinion.
You've said I lied in several of your posts. Fact is - you just don't like what I have to say. Must have hit a nerve. Feeling guilty about robbing your children of their future?
Anon | 1:50 p.m. June 7, 2008
To David on June 6th...
What does stealing cars and "not paying up" have to do with anything? All I asked was if anyone has read the book ...and you appear to have gotten a little defensive. Hmmm... interesting
What does stealing cars and "not paying up" have to do with anything? All I asked was if anyone has read the book ...and you appear to have gotten a little defensive. Hmmm... interesting
Janet | 2:12 p.m. June 8, 2008
Warren Jeffs wife Annett made her a red checkered dress after he admonished us
to treat the color sacredly. A few people in the community thought she was a
terrible person but she wasn't. Uncle Warren also teaches not to waste the
things Heavenly Father gives us and she was simply using up her faric, she wore
the dress out. God made some beautiful red roses and many lovely red things in
nature. Every FLDS member (including former members) know that red isn't
evil it is sacred. Red is my favorite color, I have a red cell phone, I have
some nikes with a red line on them, my father has a red car and no one is
condemning us for it.
Don't believe all that you read or hear against the FLDS people.
Don't believe all that you read or hear against the FLDS people.
Grandpa Phil | 9:29 a.m. June 9, 2008
gretchen, perhaps some of us have read things about the ex-FLDS that makes them
hardly worth listening to. Read an article written by Flora Jessop's
Guardian, Martha Barlow Jessop, entitled, "The truth About Flora
Jessop". Yeah, 'ole Flora is a real role model all right. If I want
to know what a Baptist believes, I will ask a Baptist, not an ex-Baptist. If I
want to know what a Mormon believes, I will ask a Mormon, not an ex-Mormon. if
I want to know what the FLDS believe, I will ask an FLDS person. I already know
why Flora lied about her experiences; she is hardly believable.
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That would be a logical extension of realitycheck's and amber's position. And I heard a prominent actor say he's planning to do exactly that for his son in a few years. I doubt CPS will be kicking in his door.
By the way, when I was in highschool there were parents hosting drinking parties for their teenage kids, on the theory that it will help them deal with alcohol maturely in college and not binge, etc. CPS didn't visit them either.
And there are the people that teach their kids that music is sin.
People should understand that there are a lot of different views on parenting, and within reasonable limits (whatever that is), people should be left alone.