Deseret News | 'Nudity tax' challenged

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'Nudity tax' challenged

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Re: Tax Ice Cream Consumption | 1:29 p.m. June 4, 2008

Just so you know, type 1 diabetes is not caused by ice cream or any other food for that matter. It is an autoimmune condition-basically means your body attacks part of itself- of the Beta cells of the pancreas. They are the cells that produce insulin. It is an equal opportunity disease. It attacks fat and skinny, healthy and unhealthy alike. In fact, most Type 1 diabetics end up relatively thin due to the lack of insulin they make and inadequate replacement. If you are going to be bitter, you might as well have your facts straight.

M, Allred | 1:32 p.m. June 4, 2008

Then, if that is the definition, RangerGordon, then are there not neo-libs on the other side of the fence? Thoughts anyone?

Anonymous | 1:38 p.m. June 4, 2008

There is a BS part of America in that it appears to be very puritanical yet sex is all they think about.
A kind of a schizophrenia.
Utah has more than its share of this sort of schizophrenia.

Comments continue below

Tumbleweed | 1:41 p.m. June 4, 2008

Full nudity is not art - it's porn plain and simple. It shouldn't just be taxed, it should be banned. Porn in Greek means evil. You libs talk about mistreatment of animals leading to harming people and therefore advocate felony charges for animal cruelty. What about porn? Ted Bundy and many other serial killers admit they started with porn. Police who search the dwellings of rapists and child molesters will tell you they ALWAYS find porn. So the effects of viewing porn extend far beyond a private showing of the porn; there ARE victims; rapes, molestations, families torn apart, women dehumanized - where's the NOW on this? Why aren't they protesting the trend to make women simply sexual objects? The role of government is to protect its citizenry from this kind of evil.

Since you asked - | 1:59 p.m. June 4, 2008

Liberal:
Free
Giving freely
Generous
abundant
Not restricted to the literal meaning
tolerant of views differing from their own
broad-minded
not orthodox or conventional
favoring reform or progress
For the people
favoring personal freedom for the individual

Rush Limbaugh's definition: Don't ask

a | 2:13 p.m. June 4, 2008

What is the difference between religion and the strip club? i go to the club every sunday, and i spend about 10% of my income.

Liberal | 2:40 p.m. June 4, 2008

"tolerant of views differing from their own"

as evidenced by their extreme tolerance of people who disagree with them on

Roe v. Wade
gay marriage
pornography
global warming
PETA
ELF
moral values
capital punishment
fighting terrorism
public expression of religion

Neocons want bigger gov't. | 2:44 p.m. June 4, 2008

Sorry Tumbletweed -
It's all in the eyes of the beholder.
Why do you neoconservatives always insist that government keep growing and growing demanding it sticks its nose into The People's personal, private doings? How does this affect you personally?
There are more important things to be concerned about in our society like our economy going down the toilet.

Re: Tumbleweed | 3:03 p.m. June 4, 2008

Well said.

Why Are You Guys Here? | 3:14 p.m. June 4, 2008

you knew what you were coming to, when you moved to Utah...that is, a state populated primarily by members of the LDS church. Was it REALLY a surprise that they would want to enact laws that helped maintain, rather than destroyed or minimized, their religious beliefs?

If you were shocked by that, you deserve your own irritation....

You were free to come to Ut; you're free to leave too....

Now, don't get me wrong, you're welcome to stay here if you wish, but puhhhh-lease, quit complaining about the LDS Church and our way of life.

Anonymous | 3:17 p.m. June 4, 2008

Sheesh! When are people going to grow up here in Utah and get of their frustration with strictured sex, religious puritinism and plain not allowing adults their own consenting pleasures?

As long as NO ONE UNDER 18 is ever allowed into these reviews and only those 18 or over (since that is the legal adult age in Utah), such places should be left alone. This is not Cromwellian America (though Bush has brought us precariously close), but America the Free.

What goes on behind closed doors that bar minors from the premises should stay such, and adults or adult related businesses should not be hit with a morality (or another 'sin;) tax for something that is among consenting adults, by consenting adults for consenting adults. It's that simple!

No! I would want my minor grand children going to such thing, and would bring full weight of law down on an establishment if it allowed such to happen, but for adults... well... the law and law makers need to act like adults, not a bunch of neo-Cromwellian fanatics.

Just leave it alone and let the laws in place do their job enforcing minors not having access to these shows.

Too faced... | 3:22 p.m. June 4, 2008

are those who are always complaining about conservatives intruding on the "private lives" of liberals, when they pass laws based on conservative moral values.

Yet those same liberals have no complaints at all when comes to pushing their own liberal moral values such as not eating meat, not wearing fur, not driving an SUV, legalizing drugs, and the proper use of private property.

Government sticking its nose in your private business only applies when it's something that liberals want to do.

re:Depraved | 3:30 p.m. June 4, 2008

Dude, my argument is this and this alone:

Government's job is to protect our shores and borders, protect our streets, and then get out of our way.

To tax two consenting adults because they do not meet your standard of "Puritanical Facism" is way more immoral than simple nudity.

(I'll bet 99% of everyone you see each day are naked at one point or another).

Vice tax | 3:39 p.m. June 4, 2008

Forget about the nude tax. If we need to shut down vice entertainment, then we should be taxing kareoke bars.

liberal is natural. | 3:44 p.m. June 4, 2008

It must be difficult for our Mormon brothers and sisters to realize they no longer are the majority in Utah.
They are just going to have to adapt a live-and-let live philosophy. Or move to Missouri as prophesized.

Wondering | 3:53 p.m. June 4, 2008

Are correct grammar and spelling taxed in Utah as well as nudity? Some of the posts are impossible to interpret due to the lack of such.

Anonymous | 3:55 p.m. June 4, 2008

M. Allred said, "Then, if that is the definition, RangerGordon, then are there not neo-libs on the other side of the fence? Thoughts anyone?"

No, there's no such thing as neo-libs out there to any great degree to call such a movement as existing. Fact is, much of the neo-con agenda is lo liberal that its makes the face turn blue. Examples include:

The neo-cons penchant to dispense with government regulation altogether and place everything in a free market cannot happen in any system of governance without big business turning to Corporate Welfare and establishing insidious Corporate Socialism...... which is exactly what has happened since Reaganomics, that reached its zenith with the Bush/Republican Congress years...

There's so much Corporate Welfare and a culture of Corporate Socialism in Washington and every State that one might say that neo-con is also a code word for neo-lib... almost as if one defines the other, similar to each are a reflection of the other, not different but in essence the same, only the labels make them appear different.

It still all comes down to Corporate Socialism's war on working middle-class America.. and sadly, they winning with our help... stupidly and ignorantly with our help!

To re:Depraved | 3:58 p.m. June 4, 2008

Thankfully, their are still a few who think that morality is still worth defending.

EVERY law, by the way, is based on the moral values of the society the enacts them.

It's all they know | 4:15 p.m. June 4, 2008

Leave it to a neocon to try and moralize each and every issue ... for everyone else.

Anonymous | 4:18 p.m. June 4, 2008

"Moral values of society" preaches Depraved 3:58 -
Like in having more than one wife?

re:To re:Depraved | 3:58 p.m. | 4:50 p.m. June 4, 2008

"EVERY law, by the way, is based on the moral values of the society the enacts them."

So you would support polygamy in So. Utah, and cannabilism in South America? Did the Taliban have it right in Afghanistan?

And you really believe that EVERY law is based upon the moral values of society???

Have you ever opend a lawbook, or do you listen to talk radio all day?

Don't think so...

Sorry.

(Should have paid attention in high school.)

awesomeron | 5:32 p.m. June 4, 2008

I am surprised that the Plays of that nature would be allowed in Utah. Mostly because Few people would go to see them. However to Tax them if their "Run Is More Then 30 Days." is, Two Faced at Best. Either you do allow or you don't allow, it does not change after 30 days, same Nude Bodies, same psycho, social reaction to public nudity. Either Tax it or don't. Does Taxing it make it any better, less sinful, or objectionable and by whom? Also is that 30 Calendar Days or 30 Performance Days?

Anonymous | 5:37 p.m. June 4, 2008

Some view the naked female form as a thing of beauty.
Others see it as something dirty and loathesome that creates carnal desire.
(I would suggest you keep away from the second kind)

kahunatic | 8:10 p.m. June 4, 2008

great, now why not extend the same opportunity to movie theatres for movies that shows nudity and video stores for r rated and nc 17 videos?

Here is an... | 8:21 p.m. June 4, 2008

idea, how about the Bloody and Gore tax? Just a suggestion...

drcaseykerr | 8:58 p.m. June 4, 2008

it's funny that this is a mormon website, because the majority of the comments seem to defend the business' rights. when will our government let people do what they want, smoke what they want, and see naked women when they want? andrew mccullough is my hero.

Weird Al | 9:39 p.m. June 4, 2008

(Why Are You Guys Here? | 3:14 p.m.-- "you knew what you were coming to, when you moved to Utah...that is, a state populated primarily by members of the LDS church. Was it REALLY a surprise that they would want to enact laws that helped maintain, rather than destroyed or minimized, their religious beliefs?

If you were shocked by that, you deserve your own irritation....

You were free to come to Ut; you're free to leave too....")

Hey, isn't that what the Indians said to Brigham Young?

He still mixed things up a little bit.

And, are you suggesting that we live in a Theocracy here in Utah?

No 1st Ammendment rights here.

Jimmy's Sneakers | 9:43 p.m. June 4, 2008

is that all you are wearing? sneakers? it's amazing how many people want the availability of anarchist societal opportunities yet don't want any problems in their neighborhood. put your sneakers on!

re:Dr Kerr | 10:00 p.m. June 4, 2008

I don't know if people are defending others right to smoke what they want, see what they want, etc.

I think people are defending other adults right to make their own choices without Government stepping in and telling them what they must do, how they must live and think.

I think we are standing up for your right to have your own beliefs (you beleive that this is a mormon website), and Brigham Young, and my Great, great grandfathers right to believe and practice their own beliefs without anyone running them off.

Utah is a great place to live, with or without naked people dancing behind closed doors.

When they come out, if they are dressed, I will smile, shake their hand, and hope they had a good day.

Re: RangerGordon | 10:25 p.m. June 4, 2008

You would love living in Cuba or China! There, the government takes everything you work for and gives you back what they think you deserve! Everyone is happy, right? No greed! A virtual paradise! This is your dream society, right? Big brother will take care of you, cradle to grave! No wonder the dream of personal freedom is dying in America with people like you voting! I am sure Obama will appreciate your vote!

awesomeron | 10:31 p.m. June 4, 2008

As a late middle aged Diabetic my feet get cold, so I often leave my socks on. The Human Body created in the image of God, is a lovely sight, provided the owner has not let themselves go. The Temple Wedding is not supposed to mean the Eternal Buffet. Also the Baby weight should be lost as much as possible between children. You may not be able to remain flat but you should be able to see it, in a mirror. I think seeing people Nude hurts some peoples feelings and says something about as it should be as opposed to as it is. I live in a land where Fat is acceptable even in the young, and some people have no guilt or shame about wearing little and being Fat. Being Nude does not have to to have anything to do with Sex. Two separate issues. As young people are becoming more in more Obese which contributes to their Carbon Footprint. More and More People at a younger and younger age are going to be Fat and Naked. Putting on cloths is a learned behavior. In always warm weather it is sometimes a hard thought lesson.

re:Tumbleweed | 10:57 p.m. June 4, 2008

So, why do you care what I do?

I might be naked right now.

Disturbed | 1:52 a.m. June 5, 2008

There is a lot of bitterness here, and I am at a loss to see why. Life would be easier and nicer if people would follow a simple little golden rule. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. I realize that this is a novel concept, but maybe the lack of it is one of the saddest losses of modern America.

Treat others as you would like to be treated by them.

To the Mormons:
Stop being so uptight! Learn that your neighbors who don't happen to be members of your faith might just be good people too! It's been known to happen. I don't know how many times I have heard LDS leaders speak out AGAINST shunning your non-LDS neighbors. Too many to count! If you believe they are inspired of God, why don't you try listening to them?

To the non-Mormons:
You know, the Mormons aren't all that bad. Most of them are, like most people, trying to do the best they can in the best way they know how. Remember, let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

To everyone:
It is possible to disagree without being disagreeable. Kindness works.

Mahonri | 6:19 a.m. June 5, 2008

Why all the worry? Full nudes are seen in Art Classes at State run schools all the time. It is no big deal.

CougarKeith | 8:00 a.m. June 5, 2008

I have to agree with Rich (First Entry in comments). As much as I don't like the "Adult Industry", what gives me the right to have them "Taxed" more? The best defense against this kind of business is for everyone to stop GOING TO THESE PLACES! Sadly being a FORMER Step Parent of a "Dancer", I have seen how the industry tied not only "Her" but several of her Co-Worker friends into drugs, alcohol, Lesbianism, and BAD CONTROLLING BOYFRIENDS who used them as SEX TOYS and Punching Bags!

This business is EXPLOITIVE! It Exploits the Girls who want to make the money they can't make at a "McDonalds". It Exploits the Men who go there for the MEGA EXPENSIVE DRINKS. It Exploits Families who's Fathers go there for a "Peep Show", and the Girls who Dance there! It exploits the Wives of these "Frequenters" who feel inadequate because their husbands need a "Dancer Fix". It exploits and promotes higher "Need" for "Pornography Fixes" and Adiction, and Finally it exploits future Girls and Boys who will one day be lured in for the Money, and the "Sexual Content" it Promotes! The Solution, Shunn the Places with picketters and Shame!

Megan | 8:02 a.m. June 5, 2008

I'm an art student at the University of Utah. We have drawn several nudes in the last couple of months. I guess the University of Utah should have to pay the "nude tax" also. This whole thing is ridiculous.

CougarKeith (Continued) | 8:08 a.m. June 5, 2008

A Nudity Tax only shows "Greed" on the part of the State, and in this they also become EXPLOITERS OF THE GIRLS In this business! They become "Pimps" of the State getting their CUT of the Exploitation!

If government wants to Control this, They need to have "State Run Boobie Bar Clubs!"

I for one am so sick of Government trying to CONTROL Everything, Big Government is an ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE, Challenges FREE AGENCY of people and the right to choose!

Besides that the truth is "Free" Agency isn't Free at all, we all have Consequences to pay because of our actions! Case in point, this former "Step Daughter" who got involved with it, and Meth as a result of the Good People she hung out with from there, lost her kids, lost her freedom (Jail) and a lot of other things because of her poor choices! It took her 3 years to get her children back, get clean, and get her life organized. She flunked out of school as well. Now she has to deal with her choices, as does her son who is about 10 and looking at life as a career criminal like his Loser Dad!

CougarKeith (Part 3) | 8:11 a.m. June 5, 2008

Sadly this is only 1 of several stories I know of all of which I have knowledge stemming through this one girl and her previous "Co-Worker" Friends!

Girls, Stay away from it, Guys Don't Go There! These could be your daughter some day! Do you want perverts like you gauking at your daughter the way you do? THINK ABOUT IT!!!

Hey Megan... | 8:20 a.m. June 5, 2008

Can I sit in on one of these "Nude Drawing" classes, I just want to watch! I bet there is no cover charge, or a monumental Drink Price Fixing ring going on?

St. George | 9:05 a.m. June 5, 2008

Rich | 12:27 a.m. June 4, 2008

I agree----- our oil based economy is bad for the environment, bad for our economy, bad for our National Security.

Lets tax all oil distribution, retail, production, and refining businesses extra

Megan | 9:14 a.m. June 5, 2008

Hey Megan wrote:

"Can I sit in on one of these "Nude Drawing" classes, I just want to watch! I bet there is no cover charge, or a monumental Drink Price Fixing ring going on?"

LOL!!

Anonymous | 12:33 p.m. June 5, 2008

Why conservatives view the human body as a dirty, loathesome sex object is a mystery to me.
But, I wasn't raised in this culture.

Mike | 1:05 p.m. June 5, 2008

Taxing the shirt off your back even when you don't have one! Maybe the owner of the business could change the order of appearance or require new coustumes every 29 days

Nudity | 1:30 p.m. June 5, 2008

My wife and I have a book of artistic nude photographs. We both agree that nude bodies when presented with taste are beautiful and helps us appreciate our own bodies.

indiferent | 3:21 p.m. June 5, 2008

I don't relly go to strip clubs, but I don't agree with this type of tax. we're in a free country and have choices if you choose to go fine. If you choose to take off your clothes fine. Now some of you might disagree with me, and that's fine too. I disagree with some of you, but that's the freedom we have right? To choose in what we engage in. I think as long as it's a consent thing amongst adults then It should be ok.

Now we're talking about taxing businesses. How about taxing every church that exist on this country? They make money, they sell a product, Please tax them. And once the churches are taxed then they should have the right to meddle in matters of state. Right now they don't pay so they should stay out.

Andrew | 5:30 p.m. June 5, 2008

Just a reminder that the lawyer for the clubs is running for Attorney General (Libertarian). If you don't like what I do, please do not vote. If you do, please register today and tell your friends.

Enlightenment Fund | 5:55 p.m. June 5, 2008

legislating morality.tsk tsk..
Don't cha wish you lived in a free country? The Constitution, which the founding of our country is based on, is meant to protect the rights of the minority and the individual, and ensure freedom up to the point of infringment on another's freedom. Laws like this passed with the consensus of the majority violate the principles the US was founded on.
How about a puritan tax, the proceeds can go into a fund to heal from repressed sexuality so that guilt wont be pushed on to thier children.

re:Enlightenment | 1:22 a.m. June 6, 2008

I see some strong 1st ammendment infringements here.

Right to speech as expression.

Sarah | 7:06 a.m. June 6, 2008

MANY cities in the US have an "entertainment" tax for things like this. Why the big fuss in Utah? It has nothing to do with the predominant religion, it happens everywhere - including Las Vegas, the US capital of strip clubs.

If you don't like the additional tax, don't open up a strip club. It's not as though this is a brand new law just going into effect, it's been around for some time now. Many of those businesses knew what the law was BEFORE they opened up, but now they're complaining about it? Sorry, but you should have known what you were getting into.

It's like buying a new TV at a set price, then going back a month later and demanding a partial refund. It doesn't work like that. These people agreed to the terms before they opened their business, so they can't go back and quibble about the details now.

Sarah, several cities are wrong | 12:45 a.m. June 8, 2008

About four years ago, the late, great Reagan adviser Lyn Nofziger wrote what he thought it meant to be a conservative.

ï¿½Allowing for differences I would define a conservative, first as one who believes in the Constitution as it is written. That takes care of free speech, freedom of religion, the right to petition the government, the right to keep and bear arms and, in the words of William O. Douglas in one of his saner moments, ï¿½the right to be let alone.ï¿½

ï¿½Second, a conservative believes in small, limited government at every level. Along with this he believes strongly in individual responsibility. That is, a person or a family should take care of itself and turn for help to government only when all other means have been exhausted. It also means that society, before government, has a duty to take care of its own. Government should be a resource of last resort.

ï¿½Third, a conservative believes taxes should be levied for the purpose of financing the limited responsibilities of government such as providing for the common defense, catching and incarcerating criminals, minting money and filling potholes. Taxes should not be levied for the purpose of redistributing wealth."

nuff said.

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