Reader comments
Texans had been 'reining in' the FLDS via state laws
31 comments | Read story
Thomas | 3:12 a.m. June 2, 2008
The state needs to start reining in the CPS.
RandallFox | 5:53 a.m. June 2, 2008
In the case of CHURCH OF LUKUMI BABALU AYE v. CITY OF HIALEAH, 508 U.S. 520
(1993), the SCOTUS ruled quite clearly that laws promulgated with the specific
intent of targeting a religious minority are unconstitutional.
Then again, it appears that Texas authorities don't really care about the Constitution.
Then again, it appears that Texas authorities don't really care about the Constitution.
Dee | 6:34 a.m. June 2, 2008
Schleicher County has a subdivision law.
Ask the County Judge.
The YFZ has a POOR RATING as of September 1, 2007 with the TCEQ. Why? They lied and had a disregard for the rules.
Ask the County Judge.
The YFZ has a POOR RATING as of September 1, 2007 with the TCEQ. Why? They lied and had a disregard for the rules.
Comments continue below
LDS_gurl | 7:44 a.m. June 2, 2008
This guy makes me sick to be a Republican. After all this fiasco I don't
plan to ever set foot in Texas again, nor help their economy or anything. I
wish them nothing but the worst. This people are psycho crazed lunatics who
feel that they can just impose whatever they want on whomever they choose.
Never move to Texas ever. Don't visit there, don't help their
economy, just do everything in your power to make them a weaker and weaker
state.
Hopefully one day their state will have as much influence nationally as say Rhode Island because that many people won't want to have anything to do with it.
Down with Texas, boycott Texas, don't have a single thing to do with this Nazi state. If you do, you better watch your back because their little power hungry CPS and Politicians might come in your home when you're not suspecting it at say 2AM in the morning and steal your children because they don't agree with your religion or belief system. What a terrible state we have there. Also, to their Gov. Rick Perry down with you too since you praised CPS for their actions against the FLDS.
Hopefully one day their state will have as much influence nationally as say Rhode Island because that many people won't want to have anything to do with it.
Down with Texas, boycott Texas, don't have a single thing to do with this Nazi state. If you do, you better watch your back because their little power hungry CPS and Politicians might come in your home when you're not suspecting it at say 2AM in the morning and steal your children because they don't agree with your religion or belief system. What a terrible state we have there. Also, to their Gov. Rick Perry down with you too since you praised CPS for their actions against the FLDS.
getreal | 7:54 a.m. June 2, 2008
FLDSers have lied and broken the law. Yet the State of Texas and CPS are seen as
the bad guys. Freedom of religion does not cover rape of little girls, physical
abuse, or child labor. If you really want to know about this
"religion", research it!
Texan | 7:58 a.m. June 2, 2008
To LDS gurl:
Please NEVER come to texas. Unlike some other FLDS friendly states, we will protect children. We have every religion you can imagine here and we are fine with that. We are NOT fine with CHILD RAPE. I'm sure you do not speak for all LDS. Most of them are against child rape as well. Maybe you are really a FLDSer grown man who "just wants his little girls back".
Please NEVER come to texas. Unlike some other FLDS friendly states, we will protect children. We have every religion you can imagine here and we are fine with that. We are NOT fine with CHILD RAPE. I'm sure you do not speak for all LDS. Most of them are against child rape as well. Maybe you are really a FLDSer grown man who "just wants his little girls back".
Ignoring reality again, I see | 8:32 a.m. June 2, 2008
RandallFox points out the US Supreme Court has already ruled that laws targeted
at certain religions are unconstitutional and many here fail to even notice.
And then these same people wonder why government gets bigger and more intrusive every year.
And then these same people wonder why government gets bigger and more intrusive every year.
Jack | 8:50 a.m. June 2, 2008
To Texan:
"Protect children" my butt; the highest court in TX said there is no evidence for what you believe. You are a dangerous person. Not even the better people in TX want you. Your kind has only disgraced the state. Not even Iran had a bigger black eye during the hostage crisis of 1979. But then again, Iran didn't take children hostage.
"Protect children" my butt; the highest court in TX said there is no evidence for what you believe. You are a dangerous person. Not even the better people in TX want you. Your kind has only disgraced the state. Not even Iran had a bigger black eye during the hostage crisis of 1979. But then again, Iran didn't take children hostage.
Texan | 9:09 a.m. June 2, 2008
to Jack:
You have no idea what you are talking about. What about the 3 decenting judges? Also, the highest court in Texas also GAVE the lower court the responsibility to make provisions for child safety and to have CPS continue their investigations. Read the actual ruling. You don't even know me, or "my kind". My concern is for the FLDS children. You can go on and ingnore the abuse so you can bash the government. Warren Jeff has wives under 16 at that compound. They are taking his DNA. Just wait till the criminal case comes out. Is it ok with you that a 13year old gave birth last month? How about the 18 year old who gave birth. Yes, 18 is not an issue, but she also has a 2 year old. Do the math.
You have no idea what you are talking about. What about the 3 decenting judges? Also, the highest court in Texas also GAVE the lower court the responsibility to make provisions for child safety and to have CPS continue their investigations. Read the actual ruling. You don't even know me, or "my kind". My concern is for the FLDS children. You can go on and ingnore the abuse so you can bash the government. Warren Jeff has wives under 16 at that compound. They are taking his DNA. Just wait till the criminal case comes out. Is it ok with you that a 13year old gave birth last month? How about the 18 year old who gave birth. Yes, 18 is not an issue, but she also has a 2 year old. Do the math.
No Irish Need Apply | 9:10 a.m. June 2, 2008
Well, that was 150 or so years ago, but then there was segregation and cc and
r's preventing sale of property to minorities, automatic refusal of jobs to
groups the majority felt were less desirable. I am not FLDS, but I think
re-writing laws just to target a certain religious group is a bit iffy, at best,
if we're going to pay any attention to the Constitution at all.
As to environmental concerns--we've done agriculture stories all over West Texas, and I think there's a lot of ignoring what wouldn't pass muster in a city. Some concerns are valid--some aren't.
I know in Arizona, there are lots of "wildcat" subdivisions that get by--and we've had unpermitted gravel quarries and cement plants in our own county.
Be careful, Texas, ya'all are fixin to get in a world of hurt.
As to environmental concerns--we've done agriculture stories all over West Texas, and I think there's a lot of ignoring what wouldn't pass muster in a city. Some concerns are valid--some aren't.
I know in Arizona, there are lots of "wildcat" subdivisions that get by--and we've had unpermitted gravel quarries and cement plants in our own county.
Be careful, Texas, ya'all are fixin to get in a world of hurt.
Rory Connor | 9:13 a.m. June 2, 2008
Judging by this article, it looks like Texas increased the age of consent from
14 to 16 specifically to target the FLDS. The Texas "Child Protection"
people then went in with guns and armoured cars ON THE BASIS OF A BOGUS
COMPLAINT and grabbed over 450 children (except that some were adults and one
was aged 27).
Not only should the FLDS people sue the CPS. They should also sue the Texas legislature. There is a direct link between those who changed the law and those who kidnapped the children and assaulted the adults.
Not only should the FLDS people sue the CPS. They should also sue the Texas legislature. There is a direct link between those who changed the law and those who kidnapped the children and assaulted the adults.
Boise Leon | 9:14 a.m. June 2, 2008
There is very good evidence that the 2005 law was aimed at the FLDS because the
Utah AG advised the Texas legislature on the entrapment scheme. Only thing is
that the law has not been used in court yet, only as a threat to harass the
FLDS. Wouldn't it be a hoot to discover that not a single incident will be
found to test the validity of the law? I can't wait to get the kids home
and then try the first criminal case under the 2005 Anti-FLDS law.
Gal50 | 9:27 a.m. June 2, 2008
I have a feeling that from a national viewpoint, Utah is the state that has
suffered the most damage. At least Texas has for now stopped the statutory rape
of young girls.
It appears that besides Utah, the other place best known for polygamy is the middle east and we all know how lousy the Islamic countries treat their women. They have to wear heavy burkas in hot weather, they are restricted in their travel, they are blamed for everything, even rapes. Sounds a heck of a lot like the FLDS.
Thank goodness, Shurtleff could point to some accomplishments when the spotlight landed on him. He seems very competent. But, the fact remains, that if 20 females (5 girls, 15 women) have suffered statutory rape on the Texas compound with a population of 700, then doing the math, about 75 girls are currently being raped in Short Creek (pop 10,000) and 275 women have been subjected to statutory rape in the last four years.
Given that there should be about 350 statutory rape cases and only one or two prosecutions and no or few children removed by Utah/Arizona CPS, it seems Utah could care less about certain crime victims.
It appears that besides Utah, the other place best known for polygamy is the middle east and we all know how lousy the Islamic countries treat their women. They have to wear heavy burkas in hot weather, they are restricted in their travel, they are blamed for everything, even rapes. Sounds a heck of a lot like the FLDS.
Thank goodness, Shurtleff could point to some accomplishments when the spotlight landed on him. He seems very competent. But, the fact remains, that if 20 females (5 girls, 15 women) have suffered statutory rape on the Texas compound with a population of 700, then doing the math, about 75 girls are currently being raped in Short Creek (pop 10,000) and 275 women have been subjected to statutory rape in the last four years.
Given that there should be about 350 statutory rape cases and only one or two prosecutions and no or few children removed by Utah/Arizona CPS, it seems Utah could care less about certain crime victims.
Texan | 9:36 a.m. June 2, 2008
To rory:
So, you wish the law was still 14? Regardless, 14 or 16, a child can not consent to an adult. I don't want to assume, but you sound like you are ok with men having sex with children.
So, you wish the law was still 14? Regardless, 14 or 16, a child can not consent to an adult. I don't want to assume, but you sound like you are ok with men having sex with children.
Rory Connor | 9:45 a.m. June 2, 2008
Texan - you say "I don't want to assume, but you sound like you are ok
with men having sex with children."
That kind of thuggish comment helps to explain the behaviour of the CPS thugs. Before 2005 were the voters of Texas "OK with men having sex with children"?
That kind of thuggish comment helps to explain the behaviour of the CPS thugs. Before 2005 were the voters of Texas "OK with men having sex with children"?
Texan | 9:57 a.m. June 2, 2008
Rory:
By saying "I don't want to assume", I was hoping you would speak out against men having sex with little girls. You did not, so what are we to assume? Do you think it's ok for a child to have sex with a man? I can't speak for all the voters of Texas, but I was never ok with children having sex with men. To be honest, I did not even know the law. I do now and I'm glad the age has been raised. Also, even with the age of consent at 14, that did not mean consent with a grown man. As far as CPS being thugs.. do you even know what they do every day? At least when I assume, it is based on something.
By saying "I don't want to assume", I was hoping you would speak out against men having sex with little girls. You did not, so what are we to assume? Do you think it's ok for a child to have sex with a man? I can't speak for all the voters of Texas, but I was never ok with children having sex with men. To be honest, I did not even know the law. I do now and I'm glad the age has been raised. Also, even with the age of consent at 14, that did not mean consent with a grown man. As far as CPS being thugs.. do you even know what they do every day? At least when I assume, it is based on something.
Rory Connor | 10:19 a.m. June 2, 2008
Texan - you say "Do you think it's OK for a child to have sex with a
man"?
Let's put it this way. I would put a guy who has sex with a child on about the same moral level as a person who makes FALSE allegations of child abuse.There is one difference. A real child abuser is often a sick or deeply inadaquate human being who may not be fully responsible for his actions. The false accuser is just an evil thug.
And I won't be entering into any further discussion with you.
Let's put it this way. I would put a guy who has sex with a child on about the same moral level as a person who makes FALSE allegations of child abuse.There is one difference. A real child abuser is often a sick or deeply inadaquate human being who may not be fully responsible for his actions. The false accuser is just an evil thug.
And I won't be entering into any further discussion with you.
Texan | 10:22 a.m. June 2, 2008
To rory:
I must have hit a sore spot. Maybe you are one of those humans who "are not fully responsible for his actions".
Sleep well FLDser....
I must have hit a sore spot. Maybe you are one of those humans who "are not fully responsible for his actions".
Sleep well FLDser....
Watch out Constituion | 10:35 a.m. June 2, 2008
Another evidence of Texas attacking religion. Allegations, but no evidence over
and over again. Change the laws to target FLDS, then still no proof. Pass
laws, and limit your own freedoms. Destroy the Constitution as fast as the
people will let you and we will quickly pass into communism. Oh Joy! Red
China, here we come.
No Age Limit | 11:05 a.m. June 2, 2008
The FLDS won't give you a simple "yes" or "no" answer
when you ask them whether having sex with a 14-year-old is immoral, because, in
reality, they don't think there should be ANY age restriction.
When an FLDS girl reaches puberty, she's old enough to have Warren Jeffs choose a husband for her.
She only has to be old enough to bare children. Whether she actually wants to be married and start having babies, or not, is irrelevant. In the FLDS faith, the girl doesn't have the right to make that choice.
This is what they teach. And, although not all girls are forced to marry as young teens, this is what they practice.
When an FLDS girl reaches puberty, she's old enough to have Warren Jeffs choose a husband for her.
She only has to be old enough to bare children. Whether she actually wants to be married and start having babies, or not, is irrelevant. In the FLDS faith, the girl doesn't have the right to make that choice.
This is what they teach. And, although not all girls are forced to marry as young teens, this is what they practice.
To LDS Gurl | 11:29 a.m. June 2, 2008
Your sympathy towards the FLDS is so obvious as is your recognition of the fact
that Utah has done little or nothing to protect these children over the decades.
The raid could have been handled differently but at least we are willing to do
something that should have been done by the state of Utah who is afraid to
offend the polygamsits as well as those who may have polygamists ancestry in
supporting the abuse of children. We don't mind if you nvecome to Texas.
You might have to obey laws here and it is obvious you have no respect for the
safety and well being of children.
Emma from Illinios | 11:44 a.m. June 2, 2008
I am so thrilled to see these children, set to return home to their mothers.
Totally agree with LDS gurl who will NEVER step foot in Texas, nor will I, or my
children. It has been made very clear now that your Constitutional rights can be
cruelly ripped away from you! While, I do feel that no child should be hurt
under the name of religion, I also feel that no child should suffer at the hands
of our government officials, either. What we have seen is both. The numbers
alone, 400+ children have been abused by our government over the abuse of 5
young girls. Not to mention the hundreds of innocent women caught up in this
mess. As horrible as I see this situation, perhaps it has served a purpose. I
think the FLDS has learned a lesson. Number 1- You basically have no rights, it
has to go all the way to the Supreme court, to show the overabuse of power used
in Texas. 2-You cannot allow your 12 year old daughter to be married. Still,
rules of home invasion whenever CPS feel like it I feel is wrong. Maybe mothers
should take law classes.
Jack | 12:15 p.m. June 2, 2008
Maybe CPS should take law classes.
reply to No Age Limit | 12:23 p.m. June 2, 2008
No age limit. Allegations, but no proof of even a 16 year old girl being
pregnant at YFZ. You Constitution haters keep firing away. Soon the legal age
will we 20, then higher. Soon Marriage will be a criminal offence, since FLDS
believe in no sexual relations until marriage. Soon the government will try to
limit anyone having children that do not say "Hyo Hitler!"
Persecution | 12:43 p.m. June 2, 2008
Persecution anyone? The FLDS claimed this and we bawked.. Seems pretty crystal
clear here! They don't mind making money off of them just as long as they
are making their lives as if in Hades. Illegal composting? Probably for the
gardens..whoopty doo. Illegal burning.. in the middle of no where? All ranches
burn brush..How idiotic that is! I compost for my garden..I don't have
"authorization".. guess that only applies if I am FLDS. Thank you
DesNews for sharing what others won't.
what?No proof? | 1:36 p.m. June 2, 2008
Yes, a 13 year old gave birth. At least 5 under age girls are married to older
men, according to the cults own records. Close your eyes and ignore the abuse. i
believe in the rights of the people, but I also believe in the rights of the
unprotected. Again, I say research this "religion" before defending
it. Freedom of religion does not give anyone the right to disobey the laws of
the land. i'm going to a different post that is not filled with FLDSers
posing as concerned citizens. You are very obvious.
wordcop | 1:41 p.m. June 2, 2008
Its not "bawked" , its balked!!
Old Geezer in Vegas | 4:03 p.m. June 2, 2008
�Both Hilderbran and Darby said they are planning to bring
new bills targeting the FLDS residents again in the next legislative session,
which begins in January.�
Just how over the top is this? Admitting that they plan legislative bills to go after a religion!! Talk about an outright admission of trying to violate people�s rights!!
Just how over the top is this? Admitting that they plan legislative bills to go after a religion!! Talk about an outright admission of trying to violate people�s rights!!
realitycheck | 4:42 p.m. June 2, 2008
actually, Old Geezer, they are trying to get the American Taliban (oops - sorry
- I mean FLDS) to stop doing immoral actions for which there are no laws.
Unfortunately, no one thought anyone would be sick enough to actually do these things, so there were no laws. Coming up with them now, since we've seen just how perv these people can be.
Unfortunately, no one thought anyone would be sick enough to actually do these things, so there were no laws. Coming up with them now, since we've seen just how perv these people can be.
R | 5:43 p.m. June 2, 2008
//As far as CPS being thugs.. do you even know what they do every day?//
It's not necessarily a matter of what they do "every day", but how they acted during this travesty - which was very thuggish.
Of course, this isn't the only case I've seen of CPS abuse of power.
//You are very obvious.//
You're very delusional. I'm not FLDS, and I imagine most of the others who support upholding their constitutional rights aren't either.
If by researching the FLDS you mean books by Carolyn Jessop, et al, that makes about as much sense as invoking Ayaan Hirsi Ali in a custody case involving Muslims.
It's not necessarily a matter of what they do "every day", but how they acted during this travesty - which was very thuggish.
Of course, this isn't the only case I've seen of CPS abuse of power.
//You are very obvious.//
You're very delusional. I'm not FLDS, and I imagine most of the others who support upholding their constitutional rights aren't either.
If by researching the FLDS you mean books by Carolyn Jessop, et al, that makes about as much sense as invoking Ayaan Hirsi Ali in a custody case involving Muslims.
zxcvbnm | 7:04 a.m. June 5, 2008
Did you see the list of those groups in texas that opposed Hildebrands bill. East texas groups opposed the likitations on inter family marraige......that certainly says it all.
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
Related content
- Mitchell wants testimony excluded 1:36 p.m.
- Cleveland case expands overseas 1:27 p.m.
- Banks eye tight credit card terms 1:25 p.m.
- Prep girls soccer MVPs named 1:16 p.m.
- Iran accuses hikers of espionage 1:09 p.m.
- New bishop heads Lufkin LDS Church 1:03 p.m.
- Making health care better 1:03 p.m.
- Hall, Jorgensen honored by MWC 12:58 p.m.
- 'Start knocking heads' on healthcare 12:27 p.m.
- Pac-10 reinstates Oregon's Blount 12:25 p.m.
- TCU showdown has big implications
- Seniors helped BYU regroup
- Hope for single moms
- Lambert surprisingly tops news
- Bystanders framed for child porn
- Korver and Miles to be evaluated
- TCU 4th in AP poll; U. 16th, Y. 22nd
- Utah Jazz Extra: Whose hot/not
- Newhouse Hotel, an explosive end
- TCU moves into 4th place in BCS
- Gay advocates trek to LDS office
242 - House passes health care bill211
- Lobo suspended176
- Cougars crush hapless Cowboys153
- TCU showdown has big implications135
- Utah Jazz fall apart against Kings130
- Thousands protest health bill106
- Provo company innovating engines105
- RSL rallies to advance103
- TCU 4th in AP poll; U. 16th, Y. 22nd99
Why do so many people live so close to refineries in Utah and elsewhere?
NASA's Stardust probe continues to bring new knowledge about the nature...
Advertisement
Latest comments
Well, I AM in his district, and he WON'T be getting my vote this time!
"Utah has fared well against TCU over the years. The Utes are 5-1 all-time...
Everyone needs to stop all the "hate" for PG. Up until this year, these...
Obviously Obama cares more about getting his big government programs in place...
and his office refused to say how he would vote and I was treated very rudely...
I am proud of jim matheson for voting no. People lets face it if the...
Re: Um.. "You are incorrect. There are computers that are immune to...
How refreshing.
Since Coach Whit is the class of the class, I wonder why Bronco didn't...
I am an old man, old enough to remember the wall going up and coming down. I...
Advertisements