Reader comments
Shurtleff backs delay on same-sex ruling

Kev | 12:37 a.m. May 31, 2008

Here is an interesting poll i just read

More California voters now support allowing same-sex marriage than oppose it, according to a new poll released Wednesday.

The results mark the first time in more than three decades of polling by the Field Poll that more California voters have approved of extending marriage to gay couples than have disapproved

CougarKeith | 1:46 a.m. May 31, 2008

Why doesn't "Anonymous" above, want to reveal who he is? The fact is "God Made Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve" Where would we be if Adam & Steve were the case? I can tell you, an UNPOPULATED WORLD! GOD ordained SEX between a MALE & FEMALE, why do you think Sodom & Gomorrah were destroyed? Where do you think the word "Sodomy" comes from? Having those "Desires" may be a curiosity, making them a regular sex habit is WRONG! Figure it out, THE PLUMBING IS ALL WRONG PEOPLE!!! We are on a very SLIPPERY SLOPE TO THE DOWNFALL OF OUR NATION!!! We are abandoning God and Morality and surly He will not sustain us as a Nation on Earth with the Freedoms we have if we ABUSE them the way we are in this Generation! Where is the VAST MAJORITY VOICE!!! I will tell you, we keep our mouths shut because we are afraid of ridicule because we MIGHT OFFEND SOMEONE! Meanwhile WE lay down like PATSIES and are the ones OFFENDED! ENOUGH ALREADY!!!

Anonymous | 2:11 a.m. May 31, 2008

God has ordained Sex between a MARRIED MAN & WOMAN, PERVERTS HAVE ORDAINED SEX between SAME SEX PARTNERS, and they want not only for you to think it is NORMAL, THEY WANT TO DESTROY THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE AND FAMILY by destroying IT'S MEANING and what it STANDS FOR! SHAME ON CALIFORNIA, AND SHAME ON PEOPLE WHO ARE IN FAVOR OF THIS PERVERSION OF A "FAMILY".

Comments continue below

this request is so reasonable | 4:10 a.m. May 31, 2008

the states shouldn't even have to make it.

but California's judges are not about reason or justice, it is all about the attention and power.

John C. | 4:19 a.m. May 31, 2008

Its interesting that no boddy talks about countries like France that allowed same sex marrige and the trouble they are in now. They are in a economic mess because the birth rate has gone so low that there arn't enough younger generation now to take over for the older generation getting ready to retire or just die. They are having to recrute people form other countries to fill vital jobs such as in the medical field.
Heres to living your fantasy rith.

What the heck? | 5:33 a.m. May 31, 2008

Man Mr. Anonymous. Talk about recruiting...

And Desnews. You have a clear ruling about URLs... why was the GLBT URL allowed????

By the way, if this poll is true, which I doubt, it is not progress, it is a sad day...

John In FL | 5:39 a.m. May 31, 2008

I am SURE that the stories of Sodom and Gomorrah are just "fantasies", AREN'T THEY??

bjennings | 6:27 a.m. May 31, 2008

Shurtleff can only delay the inevitable. Gay marriage is coming to Utah! Hooray!

honest men | 6:59 a.m. May 31, 2008

Finally!
Now Ben can make an honest man out of Jerry.

I will say this | 8:16 a.m. May 31, 2008

Right now there are 2 states I'm glad that I don't live in: Texas and California. I think both of these states governments are crazy! Texas wants to mess with the minds of kids by making them targets in the FLDS mess. And now California wants to mess with kids minds by telling them that the Natural way of things is wrong. I wouldn't want my kids to learn that it's OK for a man to marry a man or a woman to marry a woman.

Matt | 8:48 a.m. May 31, 2008

The fallacies and hypocrisy presented here as arguments for same sex marriage indicate the guised fanaticism in mainstream progressive thought. If you were willing to give equal lip service to incest, polygamy and other alternate lifestyles I could at least applaud your integrity.

Tell me, under this new "enlightened" approach to marriage, how, exactly, do we define it? How does one claim that the marriage of two same-gendered individuals is more valid than, say, the marriage of a father and a son? Is it that same sex marriage doesn't break ever-standing biological and societal boundaries? Is it that incest is "gross" and wrong while homosexuality isn't? Perhaps the mere fact there hasn't yet been an Incest Rights movement makes gay marriage more valid?

I genuinely sympathize with the plight of gays and lesbians, but banning reason as hate while undermining a virtually universal human social structure is not nearly as "progressive" as progressives try to make it sound.

A Former Californian | 9:13 a.m. May 31, 2008

Kev--that poll is bogus. It was an extremely small pool taken were the majority of people are gay.

The other problem for California is the idiot Jerry Brown that the as usual uninformed California voters voted in as attorney general.

My vote | 9:15 a.m. May 31, 2008

I would vote against allowing same sex marriage.

David | 9:27 a.m. May 31, 2008

John C., I seriously doubt that France's low birth rate is a result of allowing same-sex marriage. The numbers just don't add up! I cannot see how 10% of the population can have such a huge effect on the birth rate of an entire nation. You make it sound like EVERYONE in France is marrying somebody of the same-sex.

PLEASE STOP SHOUTING! | 9:29 a.m. May 31, 2008

What is up with people writing using so many caps? People are less likely to listen when you shout. Just a friendly tip. :)

Kev | 10:06 a.m. May 31, 2008

You know former Californian I expected that comment but as you all know thwe only legitimate poll is the one YOU agree with

ItsAllAbout You | 10:17 a.m. May 31, 2008

John C.,

So if same-sex marriage were not legal in those countries, more gays would be having kids in a heterosexual marriage? Are you serious? Explain this to me how this would work, please.

Anonymous | 10:34 a.m. May 31, 2008

CougarKeith and Anonymous (2:11 a.m. May 31, 2008),
Your god and the stories about his laws are only relevant to those of you who believe in them. Your points are moot as far as the rest of us are concerned. You cannot abandon that which you have never embraced. So, who is the "we" that are abandoning god?

Anonymous | 10:35 a.m. May 31, 2008

This opens doors to all kinds of scary marriage possibilities...brothers and sisters, fathers and daughters, adults and children....

Reasoning | 10:57 a.m. May 31, 2008

How do you justify making homosexual marriage illegal? If you say that it's because God commanded us not to, that wouldn't be an adequate reason for a law, since we believe in the separation of church and state.

If you're reasoning is that it's unnatural, that means nothing. Whether or not something is natural doesn't determine its morality, since Cancer is natural and medicine is unnatural.

I personally think that homosexuality is immoral and will teach my kids that same thinking, but if you're trying to justify a law you need a different reason.

Anonymous | 11:10 a.m. May 31, 2008

Since God will not be mocked, I'm sure he'll deal with this in his own way and in his own time. The truth is, all social ills are due to our own stupidity and disobedience to God's laws which are more important than man's laws. It won't be too long before we begin to see the adverse effects of our own behavior and decisions.

Gay Marriage Doesn't Work | 11:17 a.m. May 31, 2008

This is a quote from a gay man:

"...But he says that gay marriages do not work because men are too predatory.
He also claimed there were too much ï¿½promiscuityï¿½ in the gay community for civil partnerships to thrive."

Amen, brother.

Karl | 11:28 a.m. May 31, 2008

D News.
Strange that you wont print any negitive comments about Shirtluff, but bashing gay people is acceptable?

um. karl? | 11:38 a.m. May 31, 2008

go read all the comments on the the dozen or so other stories about shurtleff just in the past weeks and bring that ol' argument back to us. moderators seem to be letting both sides shout it out loud.

Patience | 11:40 a.m. May 31, 2008

In a recent study by sociologist Ryan Bell, 42% of active LDS members support gay marriage. That is a very interesting statistic. It makes me believe that the Church will eventually allow gay marriage because of pressures from within the Church and without. Much like polygamy and giving priesthood to black members, the Churh will eventually change its position on gay marriage.

Demopublican | 12:19 p.m. May 31, 2008

When is the politicians both in the States and the Federal level going to get back to looking to the affairs of good governance (economy, crime, business opportunities, property issues, etc.,) and quit being the moralizing about issues best left to churches?

All this moralizing stuff has nothing to do with the weighty issues of governance. It's like the job of being a politician becomes so hard that the easy way out is constantly sought, and nothing is as easy as rallying the voters to popular non-essential banter and bluster than 'moral' issues.

It's a trite but true truism that, "You can't legislate morality." How many more failed administrations, legal challenges to this moralistic crap, and the like have to take place before both the voters and those voted in get it?

Get back to governing the people, not preaching (and imposing) the people into some fairy tale utopian idea that just isn't possible in an imperfect world.

smith | 12:19 p.m. May 31, 2008

Besides that nonsense about population, most of Europe is outperforming us economically. I think we should make it so that anyone can get married as long as they prove that they have the requisite intelligence to pass to their children if they plan on having any.

Showalter | 12:36 p.m. May 31, 2008

The Church never has and does not now change its teachings according to pressures from society nor the church membership. The entire foundation of the LDS Church theology is built around the family, from the pre-earth family life, through this earthly life, and in the life we will live after this one.

GS | 12:44 p.m. May 31, 2008

Scientific study of the well-being of people, shows that the lives of men and women are significantly improved in many ways, by marriage...physically, financially, and emotionally. Being a child nurtured by a married father and mother sets you up to be farther ahead physically, financially and emotionally when compared to those of non-traditional situations. That seems worth considering when you set about to have children.

Folsom, CA | 1:10 p.m. May 31, 2008

By reading some of these posts I have determined that Utah is full of bigots. Please keep your narrow mindedness out of California and stay behind the Zion curtain.

Anonymous | 1:26 p.m. May 31, 2008

Gays cannot have children! Two "married" men are not a family! Neither are two women!

Justbeckys | 1:32 p.m. May 31, 2008

As to the LDS church " eventually change its position on gay marriage" I'm afraid your going to have a long wait. Never is a long time. Sorry.

ItsAllAbout You | 1:38 p.m. May 31, 2008

Hey, Anonymous (1:26 p.m. May 31, 2008),

I'm a man, and my wife cannot have children. Does that mean we are not a family? Or does your mind think that far?

TetonMike | 1:41 p.m. May 31, 2008

Showalter (12:36)

Actually, sir, the LDS church quite often changes its positions to 'fit in' with contemporary society. The 'Black 14' protests from the football players in Laramie Wyoming in the early 70's focused enough attention on the racism within the LDS church that its leaders had a 'revelation' to comply with civil rights laws..Idon't doubt that in time they will also come around on granting "Liberty and Justice for ALL."

Shurtleff | 1:44 p.m. May 31, 2008

Is a failed Lawyer

folsom | 2:03 p.m. May 31, 2008

how many bigots does it take to fill Utah?

I concede, however, that you are well versed in bigotry.

Anonymous | 2:21 p.m. May 31, 2008

Satan supports gay marriage and I'm proud to say that I'm not a Satan supporter.

Re: ItsAllAbout You | 2:43 p.m. May 31, 2008

When an orange grows without seeds, it's still an orange. However, an apple is never an orange.

You made a valid point, but your argument is still flawed.

Californian Bigot | 2:48 p.m. May 31, 2008

If disagreeing with gay marriage makes me a bigot, I guess I'm a bigot. However, your intolerance of my views makes you a bigot as well. So at least I'm not alone.

sky | 2:50 p.m. May 31, 2008

The poll sighted in previous postings is actually very accurate. It's just that bigots never allow fact to interfere with their magical thinking.

Emperor has no clothes | 3:09 p.m. May 31, 2008

A man can never take the place of a wife and especially a mother even if he wears mascara, a dress, and wig.

And a woman can never take the place of a husband and especially a father, even if she cuts her hair short and tries to act like a man.

If someone wants to live a homosexual lifestyle, that is their choice.

But...
Asking our country to unite behind this falsehood is asking us all to lie. Please don't do that. Lying is destructive in more ways than one may imagine right now.

Andrew J. Marksen | 3:22 p.m. May 31, 2008

the issue here is California making law for forty nine other states. In true oligarchy (via the judiciary) style the California Supreme Court (5 or 6 unelected people) just imposed its will on everyone else. there is a major US Constitution issue here and here is why,

under Article. III. Section. 2. which gives the supreme court the power to resolve disputes between states

and

Article. IV. Section. 1. Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State.

this IS going to lead to lawsuits in Utah. this is going to get ugly and before the dust settles and SCOTUS is going to have to put the fight to rest once and for all.

it does not matter what your personal feelings are or which side you support. the next shot in this fight has just been fired and it will have massive repercussions.

thanks to California and San Francisco values and no one gets a choice anymore because it is being force fed to us. the whirl wind is coming and we best be ready.

Ben | 4:11 p.m. May 31, 2008

Reading through the "sky is falling" comments makes me happy that I am no longer a Utahn. Marriage is now available to gay couples in California. If your marriage to a member of the opposite sex in a state 700 miles away is flimsy enough to be threatened by two men or two women tying the knot in San Diego, the problem is with you, not them.

I am always curious as to why certain "straight" people are so obsessed and fascinated with the abililty of a small group of the population to fall in love with members of their own gender. It's like Larry Craig, Mark Foley, or Ted Haggard all over again.

informed1 | 6:49 p.m. May 31, 2008

"When the power of love, overcomes the love of power, there will be peace".

Fascinated | 11:37 p.m. May 31, 2008

As gays have a significant disposable income, Mr. Shurtleff might indeed be worried about expensive lawsuits bankrupting his AG office. He can tout "federalism", but this issue does not invoke trade law or federal oversight. Note the wisdom in the approach by the State of New York --or open your wallets 'cause this is going to be expensive!

To reasoning | 12:20 a.m. June 1, 2008

State and Federal laws are derived from social norms in a society, our laws specifically came from Judeo Christian values. Every society brings laws based upon the predominant values of that culture. Seperation of Church and State had nothing to do with preventing religion from influencing our laws idiot, you clearly have no understanding of the constitution. Seperation was to protect religion from Government and not establishing a national Church, that is fact. If we wanted to prevent religion from influencing our laws then we would have to preclude anyone who is religious from being elected.

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