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Boom to bust? Housing crisis drops ice on hot Southern Utah market
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I can bail one of you out | 9:37 p.m. June 1, 2008
I can't help the many St George people who are in trouble on their houses
but maybe I can help one. I've got a house in Bountiful I want to trade
for a house in the St George area. Just look on domuswap (it's the only
Bountiful house on there) or the st george craigslist (search the housing area
for "bountiful" it's the only one you'll find). Houses up
north are a lot easier to sell and are holding their value much better.
Northern Utah has a much broader and better economy, plenty of people still
moving in. So email me and maybe we can work out a trade.
Reply to Watcher | 10:04 p.m. June 1, 2008
I agree with you my friend. Sadly, I made the mistake of buying a home with a
pretty high payment. And now I just lost my job on Friday. But I will do all
that I can to keep the house, I will be aggressive in finding another job, and
if I have to sell the house for a loss, it is a mistake that I will never have
to learn again. It is so important to live within your means.
Not making more land | 11:23 p.m. June 1, 2008
But there is a fool born every minute.
When John Adams' Father said to buy land, he meant to buy it for yourself, not take a loan and buy it for the bank or some anonymous group of investors.
No, they are not making more land, but there is plenty still left and much of the land is currently held by fools have leveraged themselves to the hilt and won't be able to hold onto it. So, no they are not making more land, but they are making more of the land there is available.
When John Adams' Father said to buy land, he meant to buy it for yourself, not take a loan and buy it for the bank or some anonymous group of investors.
No, they are not making more land, but there is plenty still left and much of the land is currently held by fools have leveraged themselves to the hilt and won't be able to hold onto it. So, no they are not making more land, but they are making more of the land there is available.
Comments continue below
bergstro | 9:44 a.m. June 2, 2008
As we debate the unethical nature of the comission-driven real estate business,
I have a funny story to add.
I live in CA and was talking to a friend of mine that works as a realtor in SLC. He went on and on about how crappy the housing market is and how he doesn't think he will be able to get out of his current home for another three years. He said that his comission has been so bad that he is going back to school. (Get ready for another SLC lawyer/realtor on your block).
Saturday I received one of his mass mailing flyers pronouncing "NOW as the best time to buy. You are missing the greatest investment opportunity of our generation! Only a fool would stay out of the housing market right now!"
The moral of the story? Ask your realtor if he's bought a new house in the last few months. Never trust someone that won't take his own advise.
I live in CA and was talking to a friend of mine that works as a realtor in SLC. He went on and on about how crappy the housing market is and how he doesn't think he will be able to get out of his current home for another three years. He said that his comission has been so bad that he is going back to school. (Get ready for another SLC lawyer/realtor on your block).
Saturday I received one of his mass mailing flyers pronouncing "NOW as the best time to buy. You are missing the greatest investment opportunity of our generation! Only a fool would stay out of the housing market right now!"
The moral of the story? Ask your realtor if he's bought a new house in the last few months. Never trust someone that won't take his own advise.
Utah Valley Resident | 9:58 a.m. June 2, 2008
All this humbug and pessimism about economic conditions, particularly with
gasoline and housing prices is just crazy. This paranoia is just the market
reacting to conditions. Anyone allowed to get into a house with a subprime loan
or agreeing to a subprime loan cannot be given any mercy when the piper pipes.
Give me a break! They have it coming. When you go back to the 1960's and
check out gasoline prices, which in some markets, as California, the gasoline
was in the 20 cent to thirty cent range, and realize at the same time that
chevrolets and cadillacs were $3,500 and $5,000 dollars respectfully, it is
understandable what is going on with inflation. 3,500 sq ft new rambler homes
were $35,000 in So. Cal. Salaries for jobs were the on the same increased
ratio. Now homes that people are trying to get into are $250,000 and up on
average. The lots are selling for a king's ransom, i.e. in Utah
Valley....over $200,000 for less than a 1/3 acre; One half acre lots back in the
60's were less than 10% of that price. Look at food, cost of higher
education, taxes, and the whole economic scene. Quit whining!
Utah Valley Resident | 10:08 a.m. June 2, 2008
Part Two: The basic economic problem out there, is government medeling in our
affairs; wanting to endemnify losses by foolish decision across the country.
The most alarming thing is the liberal dominated House of Representatives, and
Senate who are selling this country down the river for their own personal gain.
They are fools. The value of the U.S. dollar, which has plummeted in recent
years and the nonsense with a oneway trade policy fiasco is just a crime on
their part. Obama and Hillary have more of this liberal humbug in mind if one
of them is elected president. This political climate in the U.S.A. is just
outrageous. What we need is more conservatives elected to office. I have no
idea how someone like Matheson can be elected to the House of Representatives,
and the people in Utah know that when he goes back to Washington, D.C. he is
right with Nancy Pelosi and her far left Marxist-Leninist ideas. People here in
Utah have too many liberal ideas, and are now living to regret their decision.
We need to become more independent from international economics by having more
of our energy needs met by our own resources.
land price is the problem | 12:34 p.m. June 2, 2008
the price for a bilding lot. That is the issue. The solution for builders and
developers was to just sell smaller building lots and try and sell them for the
same price as the traditional bigger lots. So the traditional building lot used
to be 1/4 acre but now in places like St George , Las Vegas, etc.. that has
shrunk to 1/8 of an acre which is barely big enough to fit a traditional Rambler
on. No yard - just a pad footprint just big enough to fit the house on. This
"squeeze" has been going on for far too long by greedy builders and
developers. You can only shrink the lot so small before you have to design a new
type of home and that is happening now in places like Eagle mountain where the
homes are all "vertical" with no yard.
American Dream gone | 12:47 p.m. June 2, 2008
the dream of owning a home has popped. There is no way our kids are going to be
able to own a home. I guess banks can try and create 60 year loans or some
ridiculous program to keep people in the buying mode but getting a 60 year loan
is almost like renting since so little goes toward principle. With fuel costs
soaring toward $5+ per gallon expect inflation to eat up the middle class budget
and we all end up in another deep recession similar to what happened during the
Carter presidency. The is all about greed and horrible governmenal leadership.
Greedy oil companies are killing this country while our president and congress
sit on their hands being loyal to the BIG oil companies that got them elected
and keep them in office. Yes the American Dream is OVER. America will be more
like Europe in the future with most of the populous living in apartments and
using mass transit and only the super rich owning homes as well as owning their
own car.
St. George ghost town | 12:51 p.m. June 2, 2008
St. George is going to wither and die. All the signs are there.
the problem with St George | 12:59 p.m. June 2, 2008
The problem that St George has the northern Utah doesn't is industry. What
kind of industrial base does southern Utah have? VERY LITTLE. People can't
find jobs that will pay anywhere near what it takes to purchase a home and less
people are looking to retire there due to the ridiculous land prices. So, who is
going to buy or build going forward? This sort of boom/bust thing is seen all
over America where a certain area that has little industrial/job base goes from
red hot to icy cold over night. The lesson here is DON'T build or buy in St
George unless you are rich.
Dave | 1:15 p.m. June 2, 2008
My father taught me that in tough times the fiscally smart can make a ton of
money off those that don't follow the teachings of the prophet. Those of us
that have watched and waited for this to happen like it does every 10 years or
so, staying out of debt, saving money so we can bail out those who thought their
paycheck was larger than what it really is.
I never thought this would happen with a republican president at the head but thanks to President Bush and 6 years of republican ran congress, I move into my $560,000.00 house tomorrow paying only $350,000.00 because a new home builder had to dump it because of the way the market is.
I do feel bad for those that chose not to understand the housing market and buy high, and put on paper worst case situations and if they could afford their homes in worst cases.
But because I did and they didn't I can now afford what was just a far fetched dream.
Thanks to all that helped me, and yes I'm not gloating.
I never thought this would happen with a republican president at the head but thanks to President Bush and 6 years of republican ran congress, I move into my $560,000.00 house tomorrow paying only $350,000.00 because a new home builder had to dump it because of the way the market is.
I do feel bad for those that chose not to understand the housing market and buy high, and put on paper worst case situations and if they could afford their homes in worst cases.
But because I did and they didn't I can now afford what was just a far fetched dream.
Thanks to all that helped me, and yes I'm not gloating.
the suburbs are done | 1:22 p.m. June 2, 2008
Those who remain in their oversized automobile dependent suburban homes have
nothing to look forward to except the crushing costs of heating, cooling, and
traveling to and from them. The market prices and occupancy rates of suburban
houses is going to continue to drop while the value of homes in dense transit
served walkable communities will grow.
Our supply of suburban housing already exceeds the supply of people who will be willing and able to bear the costs of living in the suburbs.
Rent or view online "The end of suburbia"
Our supply of suburban housing already exceeds the supply of people who will be willing and able to bear the costs of living in the suburbs.
Rent or view online "The end of suburbia"
Jon B. Holbrook | 1:36 p.m. June 2, 2008
I hate to see the economy go bust in any community. It affects us all. For
years, the people in the United States and Utah have not been following sound
economic practices either in their individual lives or as a community or as a
nation. We need to return to the basics at all levels. Get-Rich-Quick schemes
that prey on the uninformed eventually go bust. The situation in St. George
comes as no surprise. The chickens have come home to roost. My parents lived
through the Great Depression and learned some common sense when it came to
personal finances. My generation wanted instant gratification. "Buy Now,
Pay later." The generations that have succeeded the baby-boomers have been
driven by the same desire on a more intense level. We need to distinquish needs
from wants. Credit cards should only be used for emergencies. A heart attack
with a stay at the hospital is an emergency. The big-screen teleivision is not.
Instead, save your money for the T.V. and then buy it. Thank-You
Graig Griffin | 2:51 p.m. June 2, 2008
Once again, the media has gotten folks all riled up with a negative bunch
o'statistics that fail to anchor anywhere. While this may sell papers, it
does not accurately reflect the overall market, does not address those who made
wise choices, those who were able to move up, the much-needed increase in the
supply of workforce housing, and most certainly does not serve a great community
working to recover. If the author had done anything other than recycle the
overused dark numbers comparing year over year, there might be a shred of merit
in this piece. Instead, this is among the most pathetic articles I have read on
the current state of affairs; a negative poor regurgitation with no end in
sight. I live in Southern Utah, am a Realtor, have one of those terrible
mortgages, have friends losing big, and am not afraid to put my real name on
this. This market is what we make of it; there are abundant values, lessons and
deals to be had here if we look at historical data and real values or make our
comparisons seeking wisdom as opposed to just supporting more negative blabber
to sell papers.
On the contrary, Graig | 3:32 p.m. June 2, 2008
The media has been almost criminally irresponsible in it's delayed
reporting of the housing bubble statistics causing many poorly informed
homebuyers to get financially slaughtered. This is well documented in the
archives of popular housing bubble blogs over the last few years.
Most of the information the media printed over the course of the boom and crash was hand fed from the self serving National Board of Realtors.
Most of the information the media printed over the course of the boom and crash was hand fed from the self serving National Board of Realtors.
Multi-generational families | 4:14 p.m. June 2, 2008
Maybe multi-generational families, for generations the norm, may be one answer
to this housing problem. My mother and aunt were raised in a home with their
parents, grandparents, and two aunts. It's not a bad idea to consider.
We are holding on to our 3100 sq. ft. home right now, even though we'd like to downsize, because it could easily be remodelled into a home with a nice apartment for us and our handicapped son, If any of our married kids NEEDED to share the home, we could make it work for us all.
We started out remodelling a chicken house/summer home, then bought a partially finished home, then moved into a third state (jobs) and restored an old Victorian home. Made money by increasing the value of all of them. Bought this one during a huge down market in this state 18 years ago. Buy something you can increase the value on. Stay out of debt. Live frugally. Teach your children how to do repairs and remodels. And be prepared to help others.
We'll get through these hard times, just as our ancestors did before us--if we learn correct principles and live them.
We are holding on to our 3100 sq. ft. home right now, even though we'd like to downsize, because it could easily be remodelled into a home with a nice apartment for us and our handicapped son, If any of our married kids NEEDED to share the home, we could make it work for us all.
We started out remodelling a chicken house/summer home, then bought a partially finished home, then moved into a third state (jobs) and restored an old Victorian home. Made money by increasing the value of all of them. Bought this one during a huge down market in this state 18 years ago. Buy something you can increase the value on. Stay out of debt. Live frugally. Teach your children how to do repairs and remodels. And be prepared to help others.
We'll get through these hard times, just as our ancestors did before us--if we learn correct principles and live them.
Good Luck Knife Catchers | 4:16 p.m. June 2, 2008
Dave and a few others need to learn the term "Catching a Falling
Knife".
The worst part of this crash has been delayed by MASSIVE FED intervention.
Look for much worse deterioration of economy by at least mid-2009 but more likely by late 2008.
That 350,000 "bargain" could be 275,000 or less.
The worst part of this crash has been delayed by MASSIVE FED intervention.
Look for much worse deterioration of economy by at least mid-2009 but more likely by late 2008.
That 350,000 "bargain" could be 275,000 or less.
Graig Griffin | 5:10 p.m. June 2, 2008
"Self-serving National Board of Realtors?" Exactly what do you think
they are supposed to be doing as a trade organization? "Media delaying its
reports" before does not make it OK - if the DN is just now getting to this
story, you are a bit late, no?
Nice try at a dodge, but the fact is that this article offers a highly imbalanced perspective, making little effort to qualify or quantify its information (which makes this seem the only truth). Virtually anything in real estate looks bad when compared to 2005-2007, but that's been done to death - yawn.
There is no question that there are some bad things happening to some good folk, and in some sectors, real estate continues to slide. However, there are some great untold stories about recovery, growth, and success in today's realty world. It would be my wish for the author to take a chance and dig a little deeper and find some counter-points. Contemplate how people feel about the constant barrage of re-hashed numbers specifically crunched to look bad. It was news when an economist first offered them up - today it's just battery and leaves much to be desired.
Nice try at a dodge, but the fact is that this article offers a highly imbalanced perspective, making little effort to qualify or quantify its information (which makes this seem the only truth). Virtually anything in real estate looks bad when compared to 2005-2007, but that's been done to death - yawn.
There is no question that there are some bad things happening to some good folk, and in some sectors, real estate continues to slide. However, there are some great untold stories about recovery, growth, and success in today's realty world. It would be my wish for the author to take a chance and dig a little deeper and find some counter-points. Contemplate how people feel about the constant barrage of re-hashed numbers specifically crunched to look bad. It was news when an economist first offered them up - today it's just battery and leaves much to be desired.
Time To Complain | 6:24 p.m. June 2, 2008
Graig,
Time to get out there and show those houses. You seem to have a lot of time on your hands.
Time to get out there and show those houses. You seem to have a lot of time on your hands.
Steadykat | 10:21 a.m. June 3, 2008
I live in Washington County. The home market here was nothing but an illusion.
Time to wake up from the dream.
Washington County SFR permits:
April 2006 (our peak) 350
April 2008 39
Washington County total home sales:
March 2005 (our peak) 1240
March 2008 372
Number of home buyers here that came from outside of Utah:
2006/49% total
26% from CA
10% from NV
13% other
A real-estate agent is really nothing but a saleman with some pre-fab contracts and a nice car. Add some overdue "investment" payments and a high profile auto lease to the mix and you get a real estate "professional' who may not have your best interests at heart.
Remember, if you don't buy a house he/she doesn't get a commission check. Consequently, "it's always a good time to buy".
You don't believe everything that a used car salesman tells you, do you?
Washington County SFR permits:
April 2006 (our peak) 350
April 2008 39
Washington County total home sales:
March 2005 (our peak) 1240
March 2008 372
Number of home buyers here that came from outside of Utah:
2006/49% total
26% from CA
10% from NV
13% other
A real-estate agent is really nothing but a saleman with some pre-fab contracts and a nice car. Add some overdue "investment" payments and a high profile auto lease to the mix and you get a real estate "professional' who may not have your best interests at heart.
Remember, if you don't buy a house he/she doesn't get a commission check. Consequently, "it's always a good time to buy".
You don't believe everything that a used car salesman tells you, do you?
To: Steadykat | 4:21 p.m. June 3, 2008
Great to read you on Deseret News. I really enjoy you over on HBB.
BTW: I am in Provo. Overpriced Houses, Empty Lots, and For Rent Commercial signs everywhere.
BTW: I am in Provo. Overpriced Houses, Empty Lots, and For Rent Commercial signs everywhere.
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